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1:52 AM
Friends, a silly question. Let's say I have to typeset some text starting 2cm from the left margin. Should I go with \hspace{2cm}\begin{minipage}... or is there a better way of achieving this?
6 hours later…
8:01 AM
@PauloCereda Don't know about better, but some alternatives are the adjustwidth environment from changepage, and addmargin from scrextend/KOMA-classes. tex.stackexchange.com/q/35933/586
@PauloCereda use an enviroment like \begin{quote}..\end{quote}` that is the same (one line defn in article.cls) but just sets \leftmargin not both margins. (or there is a package who's name I forget that provides an environment with arguments that does exactly this)
8:23 AM
@egreg there is a small typo in the xpatch documentation: \xshowbibname{...} instead of \xshowbibmacro{...}
8:37 AM
@UlrikeFischer Thanks!
8:50 AM
@egreg Man in a hotel on fire? :)
9:15 AM
@yo' One among many…
@DavidCarlisle I leave \reserveinserts to you :-)
@JosephWright Yes... I know you only do l3 stuff:-) (like removing \reserveinserts from expl3:-)
@DavidCarlisle I knew it was \outer, though ;-)
@JosephWright You keep up with these modern developments like etex. (Who wrote that package, anyway?)
@DavidCarlisle I seem to be dragging the whole team that way
9:27 AM
@UlrikeFischer, @egreg the new kernel allocation scheme allows you to have 18 \newinsert plus however many you use before the classic count registers run out, but it turns out that reledmac uses 20 and if you load it after biblatex it dies if it is "updated" not to do \RequirePackage{etex}\reserveinserts{32}. Tempting to say just load it earlier (or re-write it not to use 20 \insert classes) but I have a version of \reserveinserts which I'm contemplating adding to the format so it can ..
.. do \ifx\reserveinserts\@undefined\RequirePackage{etex}\fi\reserveinserts{32} and work in the new scheme without loading etex.sty. But as you see above getting useful comments from team members not as easy as you might think..
@DavidCarlisle I can see this both ways: this is a rather specialised case
@DavidCarlisle Probably we do need to adjust to allow for \reserveinserts
@DavidCarlisle Alternative plan: after loading the kernel, keep all remaining standard pool registers for inserts and only use the extended pool :-)
@JosephWright So can I, That's why I was canvassing for opinions. But generally I think not breaking existing documents (even if they are not really sensible code) is a good plan.
@JosephWright that (was) the lualatex.ini plan wasn't it?
@DavidCarlisle Yes, that's always been the approach (as I understand it)
@DavidCarlisle Yes
@DavidCarlisle Well, luatex.sty
@JosephWright ah yes, there.
@DavidCarlisle I suspect that with a modern system even with pdfTeX/XeTeX the efficiency loss is not worth worrying about when moving to the extended pool, so I am not entirely joking
9:34 AM
@JosephWright Yes I did consider that, but basically that seem like using something like \reserveinserts{100} (built in) which seems odd, or at least encouraging odd behaviour:-) although as you say I doubt any time/space costs are really measurable these days
@JosephWright and of course it still doesn't help documents that have \reserveinserts in the document which stop working if expl3 or memoir or reledmac stop loading etex.sty
@DavidCarlisle Sure
@DavidCarlisle Was mainly joking :-)
@JosephWright but "not entirely" Anyway maybe those retired gentleman will stop watching old Inspector Morse films and comment...
@DavidCarlisle Never know your luck
@DavidCarlisle Well if you just drop the standard pool entirely you can define \reserveinserts as a no-op, and then existing documents do work
@TorbjørnT., @DavidCarlisle: Thanks, guys! :)
@JosephWright true although my main concern about adding any command to the format is \ifx tests doing something different, so even a no-op has that worry
9:42 AM
@DavidCarlisle \reserveinserts is (was) \outer ;-)
@JosephWright you can still test it with \ifx, just can't use it inside the test as hmm I found...
@DavidCarlisle Like I said, mainly not serious (though I do wonder for a LaTeX3 allocator if we should think about this: probably we won't expose a way to make inserts at all)
@DavidCarlisle Yes, I was thinking mainly 'it is pretty tricky to imagine a sensible test'
@DavidCarlisle I see @FrankMittelbach has appeared: you can bother him :)
@JosephWright for xetex at least I would guess it can't be that hard to make \insert work over the full range.
@DavidCarlisle Not sure
@DavidCarlisle XeTeX still uses the same model for registers as e-TeX
@JosephWright at least it's not like \mathchardef where there are syntactic restrictions on keeping the original range, all the syntax to refer to an insert uses an arbitrary <number>
9:47 AM
@DavidCarlisle True
@DavidCarlisle Speaking of feedback from the team, any thoughts on the \Ucharcat-like code I asked about
@JosephWright From a code perspective it is eminently sensible but from a user perspective people are going to expect lowercase of arbitrary utf8 input to work in pdlatex. Although I suppose as long as things are pre-expanded to LICR form it should work in most cases
@JosephWright @DavidCarlisle yeah yeah disrupting my complicated thoughts on writing a goodbye mail to my (ex)colleagues of 25 years
@FrankMittelbach Oh no! :(
@PauloCereda what do you mean oh no?
@FrankMittelbach They disrupted you. :(
And so did I. apparently.
Sorry. :(
9:54 AM
@PauloCereda haven't you listend to my suberb talk at Darmstadt :-)
@FrankMittelbach I did. :)
@PauloCereda :-)
@JosephWright it is a shame that there should be any need for \reserveinsert really
The moment your list of listings make fun of you for writing your qualification:
@FrankMittelbach Do that first. And Happy Retirement!
@FrankMittelbach That was my thought initially, it may be if we just fix reledmac it'll never come up again to be needed, perhaps. (need to make it not use \newinsert for minipage footnotes) but just defining \reserveinserts is simpler.
@DavidCarlisle the only way I can think of doing that (as long as inserts need to stay below 255 is that one could keep a proprty list of allocations and shift registers up whenever inserts move into used spaces (not really very performant etc and probably a bit complicated but it feels wrong to me to reserve them
@DavidCarlisle it isn't going to be one really as you know :-)
10:11 AM
@FrankMittelbach or as @JosephWright just suggested above, just don't use the classic registers for anything else and start allocating above 256.
@DavidCarlisle Do they sing *For he's a jolly good fellow"?
@PauloCereda I believe that's the wrong country
@DavidCarlisle Not a colony? Oh no. :)
@FrankMittelbach Wow!
@DavidCarlisle That's a different matter: I've been thinking about it a bit and will mail the team later
10:16 AM
@PauloCereda was tempted to use that in my talk but thought maybe I better not :-)
@FrankMittelbach A wise choice. :)
@DavidCarlisle if that can be done without (severe) side effects then why don't we do that? register speed should not be an issue should it?
@DavidCarlisle Goodness, DK and I agree on something :-)
@JosephWright DK?! :)
Don? :)
@PauloCereda No, that would be DEK
@PauloCereda David Kastrup
10:22 AM
@JosephWright ooooooh I thought it was David's doppelgangler David Karlisle. :)
(In the same way, I always use my middle initial so JAW not JW)
@PauloCereda :-)
Q:	How many psychiatrists does it take to change a light bulb?
A:	Only one, but it takes a long time, and the light bulb has
	to really want to change.

[paulo@cambridge ~] $
@DavidCarlisle It doesn't sound like a bad idea to leave the pool to the inserts - separating the fighting camps ;-). But as I have no idea about the cost and the side effects ... From the view of support I would be interested that if an document dies, it dies with some identifiable symptom and that there is some not to difficult work-around like "add \handlereserveinsertsproblem before \documentclass"
10:56 AM
Q: Move LaTeX documentation on Stackoverflow

user4035Here is a big post about new documentation project: Warlords of Documentation: A Proposed Expansion of Stack Overflow I think, that LaTeX doesn't have good online documentation, almost everything is in pdf and is not structured very well. To search something about tikz I have to open the big pdf...

I wondered when this would come up
Thoughts welcome: of course there are two parts, the 'online docs in general' and 'SO in particular' aspects
@JosephWright I don't get it.
@JosephWright seems a bit strange to me, especially the comments from SO staff saying they want to be the main doc "for everything" here at work for example we spend often years developing and proof reading the documentation for a new routine in parallel with the development of the code. Moving documentation to be completely separate from code development has lots of dangers it seems.
@DavidCarlisle Indeed
@DavidCarlisle I can't say a lot about this, but I presume for a lot of languages the two processes are somewhat separate
11:17 AM
@JosephWright I suppose it depends if they mean by "documentation" something like the official language or API spec, or being more of a competitor for an O'Reilly animal book on the same language. It's probably true that more people would currently use such a book that use an official language spec.
@DavidCarlisle They seem to mean both: one of the complaints is about official docs beign (a) limited and (b) rarely updated
@JosephWright pdfinfo says of our current PDF doc Pages: 12678 so it may not be perfect but I don't think "limited" is a description often applied:-)
11:33 AM
@DavidCarlisle I didn't mean for (La)TeX specifically, but I guess lots of pages doesn't equal lots of useful info even then
@JosephWright that was NAG (nagdoc_fl25.pdf if you want a read) not latex:-)
@DavidCarlisle Ah
@DavidCarlisle I guess one can't see it without paying (we may though have it at work)
@DavidCarlisle Problem with writing docs, as you know, is that everyone has a different idea of what is useful
@DavidCarlisle Some odd PDF info :-)
11:49 AM
@JosephWright yes I noticed that, we should fix, it's an artifact of concatenating the ps files for all the routines with some minor perl cleanup then distilling. We should remove the individual pdfmarks setting document properties...
@JosephWright although perhaps going forward we may just concentrate on the html version, now browsers can mostly make a plausible job of printing the mathematics in the pages.
@JosephWright (1) People mix "user manual" and "documentation". These are two very different things. (2) Stepping in a project that does not seem well thought out sounds like anything but a good idea. (3) Do we want people at SO who have often very stupid LaTeX habits themselves to produce documentation and use examples for anything LaTeXy? The internet is flooded by these, and people look at them rather than open the documentation, which is in most cases quite OK.
@yo' (1) Agree (2) Agree (3) Agree :-)
@JosephWright Should I make an answer to the meta post? :-)
@yo' I do wonder how it might compare to say the wikibook approach: that is also open to edits from anyone, but that doesn't mean its right
@yo' Sounds not unreasonable
@JosephWright I'll see what I can do.
12:03 PM
A: Move LaTeX documentation on Stackoverflow

yo'Couple thoughts. People mix user manual and documentation. These are two very different things. Every LaTeX package that makes it to CTAN has to be documented, at least to some extent. Most packages are documented well, using docstrip or similar tools; however, this is often the technical docum...

@PauloCereda ^^ :)
@yo' I wub you! <3
@PauloCereda awwwwwwww :)
You guys have seen madoko.net ?
Any experience with that?
@topskip YAATFL?
12:15 PM
@topskip yet another attempt to fix latex?
I've seen couple of them :-)
Not to fix LaTeX, but to have a reasonable subset of LaTeX without the LaTeX pain.
@topskip I've used AsciiDoc in the past. :)
AsciiDoc is nice, too
I have something to show you guys, hold on. :)
12:18 PM
@topskip ah ok so it does not aim at universality. Then, another clone of the wiki script?
(btw, I didn't expect my answer to get accepted so quickly and without any hassle @Paulo @Joseph :-) )
I'd say an enhanced version of markdown
@topskip ok, I see. Well, no experience personally, I tend to avoid these projects
user image
The duck is so cuddly. :)
@PauloCereda :-)
12:52 PM
@PauloCereda where did you get that from?
@FrankMittelbach Ducks have mysterious links across the world.
@egreg duck subspace!
@yo' DuckNet
@FrankMittelbach It's a secret. :) (writing an email for you right now)
@egreg <3
@topskip I've seen a few of these Markdown-inspired approaches: I understand the motivation, but there's a reason LaTeX is used
1:15 PM
@JosephWright From the discussion of a few days ago (nothing important, just a doubt) \def\increment#1{\edef#1{\noexpand\the\noexpand\numexpr\the\numexpr#1+1\relax\r‌​elax}} and then \increment\foo would make the “integer” \foo self terminating, wouldn't it?
@Manuel Yes but ...
@Manuel Difficult to handle coerced values, \relax is there even in cases where you don't want it (for example, if you did \ifnum\numexpr#1\relax=\numexpr#2\relax where #1, #2 could be either stored values or 'raw' numbers)
@Manuel Also there's a performance hit: TeX has to re-read the value (and thus 'find the end') when used, whereas stored in a register it doesn't
@JosephWright But the \numexpr would be also there, so the \relax is no problem.
@JosephWright True.
@Manuel No, because it will use up one \relax
@Manuel \numexpr\foo\relax => \numexpr 123\relax\relax => 123\relax
@JosephWright, @Manuel interesting control characters in that text:-) I was going to demonstrate
But wasn't expecting
> \foo=macro:
->\the \numexpr 1\unhbox \voidb@x \bgroup \let \unhbox \voidb@x \setbox \@tempb
oxa \hbox {�\global \mathchardef \accent@spacefactor \spacefactor }\accent 23 �
\egroup \spacefactor \accent@spacefactor ��elax.
l.7 \show\foo
@Manuel see it isn't really "self terminating" in that 2\foo 4 is the number 214:

\count0=2\foo 4

@DavidCarlisle something gone wrong?
1:28 PM
@yo' U+200C sneaked in
> 214.
l.10 \showthe\count0
@yo' Unicode
@DavidCarlisle We love Unicode :)
@yo' U+200C separated \r from elax, so you can see the expansion for \r (the accent you like most).
@egreg oh \r, haven't seen that one for ages :-)
��� � �  �� ��� � �
� � � � � � �   ��
��� ��� ��� ��� � �
1:36 PM
@PauloCereda even ducks need unicode?
@PauloCereda Can't understand that quack, it's in an unknown language.
@yo' Unicoduck. :)
@egreg Oh no!
@egreg Did I put that there? If it wasn't me I don't know how the hell happened :)
@Manuel It's not the first time this happened in the chat.
@DavidCarlisle By the way, the \noexpand\the should be removed, I don't know why I put that there :)
@yo' Okey. What a strange chat…
1:42 PM
@Manuel it may be the browser, too
@Manuel I don't know, but if I copy the last \relax from your code sample and paste it into r12a.github.io/apps/conversion, clicking on “convert” shows \rU+200C U+200Belax
An L3 question: assume we have a sort of data where a main key name will have several data items associated with it. How is it most convenient to store this data?
@daleif A property list, with the value corresponding to the key as a comma separated list?
@daleif I don't know if I understand. May be l3prop? l3keys?
To be more precise: Assume my test project playing with fancyref: say I have the prefix thm, then I'd like to store things line title cased name, lower case name, title cases short name, lower case short name, etc. I can store this as say \tl_set:Nn {data-thm-tc}{Theorem} etc, this gives fast access to the data.
Alternatively property lists.
But they seem to have overhead in retrieving the data.
1:55 PM
@Manuel If you remove that there is no point in having the two numexpr, the outer one only does anything useful if you \noexpand the \the (or don't have \the at all). Oh I see you said that, remove noexpand and the, OK.
@daleif If property lists seem a little big, you could create your own “interface”. Wether it's with \tl_gset:cn { g_data_ #1-#2 _tl}, or with a \tl_case:NVTF function and pairs of {tc}{Title cased name} {lc}{Lower cased name}.
@DavidCarlisle By the way, \noexpand is redundant in front of \numexpr
@egreg yes I removed it (while removing U+2000x)
@DavidCarlisle Yep, but you make it self terminating? Except for the \ifnum like Joseph said.
@egreg David removed it :) (Ahm, and faster than me also he wrote that he removed it just a few secs ago :D)
@Manuel he never reads what I write
2:00 PM
@Manuel It is basically the step: \prop_get:NnN \prop_list {key} \l_tmp that annoys me be bit. As far as I can see I need to retrieve the key first, and then I can insert it where I want it. just seems easier to use \use:c {data_ #1 _tc}
@Manuel I thought you meant \def\increment#1{\edef#1{\the\numexpr\the\numexpr#1+1\relax\relax}} which isn't very useful but I see you meant \def\increment#1{\edef#1{\numexpr\the\numexpr#1+1\relax\relax}} which is OK, although probably it is better to make your arithmetic operators wrap their arguments in \numexpr..\relax rather than make every numeric variable carry that wrapper
@daleif \prop_get:Nn \l_prop_list { key }?
@DavidCarlisle \prop_item:Nn
@Manuel ?
@DavidCarlisle Sorry, it was meant for @daleif
2:02 PM
@Manuel that was directed to Josephs answer
@Manuel hmm, I'll test that
@Manuel Oh yes, we renamed this
@JosephWright Does that exist?
@daleif Of course will never be as fast as a hash table based lookup
@JosephWright Okey, second time in ten minutes that someone writes an answer beforme and I don't read it, I seem to be sleepy.
@JosephWright exactly, and since this is something that will be executed quite often, that might be an issue.
2:04 PM
@JosephWright Yours is the new interface? It's not in the documentation, by the way.
@JosephWright, og GitHub, siunitx v3 is that those siunitx-*.dtx files?
@JosephWright One last one before I go, what is a “hash table based lookup”? I've never heard of that.
@Manuel direct macro usage? \def\foo{test} then running \foo
or \use:c {foo}
@daleif Okey.
@Manuel I don't remember where the name comes from.
using a property list may make code that is simpler to read, but slower because of the added structure.
2:10 PM
@Manuel No, \prop_item:Nn is the newer name
@daleif Yes
@Manuel \@namedef{my@table@key}{value}
@daleif We may yet have to think again about prop implementation (currently the design was about saving hash table names, although mapping/copying is also easier with a single token than with a linked list)
@JosephWright Okey. And is it faster a \prop_… or a macro with a \tl_case:… (or \str_case:…)?
@daleif Indeed: for siunitx I've used a prop for units and one for numbers in v2, but for v3 plan to use a dedicated (rigid) structure for numbers, sticking with prop for units
@Manuel \str_case: has to be 'hard coded', and gets slower as the number of cases grows. For speed the hash table approach is always going to be fastest for random lookup: I'm not so sure about iterating.
3 hours later…
5:17 PM
Please see the description of this user: tex.stackexchange.com/users/64948/sparkandshine
Is that spam or not`The name leads to the company web site ...
5:44 PM
@Kurt Why should it be?
@Kurt It seems a personal site, not a company's
6:03 PM
@egreg well, if I understand the description in the user profil right it sounds for me to be spam. But it is of course possible that I missunderstood that. That's the reason for my question here.
1 hour later…
7:25 PM
@barbara from what I view, the idea behind the Warlords of Documentation is to ... provide documentation. Currently, the loose statements about what is meant by that seems to imply that it could be a lot about example, but to me it seems that ... nobody knows. For giving examples, Q&A work better I think. The effort that could be put into this new project can be also put into improving questions, closing dupes, providing better canonical answers etc.
7:40 PM
@yo' -- "nobody knows". well, i do agree with that! (on the other hand, i am frequently distressed by what i see as "accepted wisdom" promulgated in places that are found by google searches. i think i know enough to recognize when something is a bad recommendation, or at least that i ought to double check it, but not everybody is as cautious -- or is that cynical?)
@barbarabeeton well, I think that TeX.SE is the place where to concentrate good advice.
Friends, could you give me an advice on how to properly include this technical report in my .bib file?
It's an article by Hopcroft, called An n log n algorithm for minimizing states in a finite automaton. The ACM library gives me this:
 author = {Hopcroft, John E.},
 title = {An N Log N Algorithm for Minimizing States in a Finite Automaton},
 year = {1971},
 source = {ncstrl.org:8900/ncstrl/servlet/search?formname=detail\&id=oai%3Ancstrlh%3Astan%3ASTAN%2F%2FCS-TR-71-190},
 publisher = {Stanford University},
 address = {Stanford, CA, USA},
But the title thingy looks immoral to me.
Does title = {An $n \log n$ Algorithm for Minimizing States in a Finite Automaton} look wrong?
@PauloCereda IMHO good, but ... how exactly is the article called?!
@yo' ^^ :)
@PauloCereda -- have found a scanned copy of the cs report via google (well, sometimes it works). the thing was typed, so is subject to all the deficiencies associated with that. on the cover, everything is uppercase, but on the first page of the body, the "n log n" is all lowercase in an otherwise all uc context. so your interpretation is (i infer) exactly what the author intended.
7:50 PM
@barbarabeeton ooh thank you, barbara! :)
@PauloCereda -- no!!! go on a few pages! you'll see the "n log n" in lowercase.
@yo': and you too, Tom. :)
@PauloCereda i wouldn't use math mode there, but would stick to lowercase.
@barbarabeeton Got it. :)
@yo' Really? I thought I should because it was mathy.
@PauloCereda that's at least questionable. I'm personally for keeping titles in bibliography as verbatim as possible, only changing capitalization.
7:53 PM
@yo' Understood.
@barbarabeeton, @yo': I wish the reviewers could at least look at my references. :)
@PauloCereda you'll do well
@yo' -- i would use math. in my youth, i was a technical typist. us tech typists did the best we could, but gee, tex makes it so much easier to get understandable results. if the author of this report could have had it typeset, that would have been set with the "n"s italic. (further down on the first text page is a truly pathetic "n^2", by which i mean the platen was rolled down a half space, and the 2 typed in that way. sigh.)
@barbarabeeton well, you are certainly more erudite than me!
@yo' -- not to mention more antiquated.
7:57 PM
@PauloCereda the "are n" is doubly typed!
@yo' :D
@yo' -- take another look at the scan of the cover page. would you preserve the spaces you see there in "F I N ITE" ? sometimes you just gotta do what you know is right!
@barbarabeeton there's a half-title, which is better :)
@barbara, @yo': thank you, friends. ^^ :)
I have the funny/eccentric habit of using people's full names. I think I read somewhere DEK also does that.
@yo' -- true. i remember typing (for other grad students) theses that required 5 carbons. a mistake was disastrous! (fortunately, by the time i got around to typing mine, the powers that be had decided that photocopies were acceptable.)
8:05 PM
@PauloCereda I do that also, but I shorten the middle name unless the author use it a lot
@yo' :)
Found it!
But I also have a much easier task, for which Internet users can be particularly helpful. I try to make the indexes to my books as complete as possible, or at least to give the illusion of completeness. Therefore I have adopted a policy of listing full names of everyone who is cited. For example, the index to Volume 1 of The Art of Computer Programming says ``Hoare, Charles Antony Richard'' and ``Jordan, Marie Ennemond Camille'' instead of just ``Hoare, C. A. R.'' and ``Jordan, Camille.''
@PauloCereda -- indeed, dek does follow that practice. (full names) just look in the index of the texbook for proof.
@barbarabeeton ah the cc. I remember someone from "the West" coming here early in the 90s, not knowing what the carbon paper is (knowing only the copy machines) and saying "Oh this is so cool, you don't have to go to the copy machine!"
@PauloCereda I should try to find the full names of the two Marseilleian people in DEK's list, in order to get his chèque!
@yo' oooooh
8:10 PM
@yo' -- oh, dear! it was messy stuff! (the analog is still used as "dressmaker's carbon", with two-sided coating. it's really hard to mark seam and hemlines any other way, short of poking holes in the fabric.)
We could split the task, so we will have an hexademical 50 cents!
@barbarabeeton well, I do know (my parents did a thesis, too)
8:24 PM
@PauloCereda well 80 cents, but there's a chèque for each name, I think
@barbarabeeton btw, planning to use "barbara's super cool measuring set" tomorrow for the first time :-) cross your fingers!
@yo' gimme teh moneyz!
@PauloCereda ask @egreg, he's got some such!
@yo' -- oh, neat!!! you'll have to let us know (1) what you make, and (2) how it turns out. hoping for a great success.
@barbarabeeton that's what I don't know yet. Any suggestions? :-)
@barbarabeeton Surely it's an impressive set of devices!
8:30 PM
@yo' -- golly, i don't usually select the implements before the recipe. (obviously, though, it needs to be something that needs to be measured.) well, rice is easy to measure in the "dry measure" cups. some nice broth in the "liquid measure" cup. you don't really need to measure onions or carrots that way.
@egreg -- did you see them?
@yo' oooooh
I think of a cheesecake, but I don't have "Philadelphia cheese"...
@yo' I had vanilla yogurt. :)
@PauloCereda oh I don't like these :D I prefer fruity yogurts :)
8:47 PM
Any sed experts about?
@JosephWright not an expert, but a vivid user
@yo' OK, that might do :-)
@yo' Hmm, problem may be elsewhere
@barbarabeeton Tom was very proud when showing them to me. ;-)
@JosephWright Hit me.
@PauloCereda Looks like there was a 'weird char' issue instead
8:53 PM
@egreg -- i will really have to think hard about something to use them for.
@barbarabeeton this may be the winner: tasteofhome.com/recipes/layered-mocha-cheesecake
@PauloCereda oh! :)
@yo' -- i think you like desserts! i'll let that be my guide in digging through my recipe box.
I want cake!
8:58 PM
Oh I don't have a springform pan! :-(
@PauloCereda We had the remains of a “panettone genovese” we started yesterday. :)
@egreg I had some candied ginger today, does it count? :-)
@egreg oooh :)
Not having a springform pan, I think I'll make some brownies :-)
9:45 PM
@DavidCarlisle I have a feeling no-one has run the SVN babel tests for a while ...
@JosephWright I have a feeling you just ran them?
I just got in:-)
@DavidCarlisle I'm running them in a bit of a loop to address the normalisation changes, but other stuff is up too
@DavidCarlisle For example
*** testfiles/tlb3649.tlg       2015-09-04 22:44:42.000000000 +0100
--- ../../build/test/tlb3649.etex.log   2015-09-04 22:45:57.000000000 +0100
*** 38,44 ****
  ..\T1/cmr/m/n/10 ^^fe
  ..\penalty 10000
! ..\kern 1.6663
  ..\T1/cmr/m/n/10 ;
  ..\glue 3.33252 plus 1.66626 minus 1.11084
--- 38,44 ----
  ..\T1/cmr/m/n/10 ^^fe
  ..\penalty 10000
! ..\glue 1.6663
  ..\T1/cmr/m/n/10 ;
  ..\glue 3.33252 plus 1.66626 minus 1.11084
french space before punctuation turned to glue?
@DavidCarlisle Am testing now with the standard format rather than the 'isolated' one
I think ...
@DavidCarlisle Next issue: TL no longer has elatex.fmt

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