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12:26 AM
Have a nice time, I am off
 
 
9 hours later…
9:44 AM
@cfr: Hello! :) Deeply sorry, I'll send you an e-mail this weekend. :)
 
10:05 AM
@cfr: in other news, do you have a TUG membership? :)
 
@PauloCereda Three nominations so far
We need more: there are eight spaces!
 
@JosephWright I'm working on it, don't worry. :)
 
@PauloCereda I've added the tag
 
@JosephWright Thank you. :)
 
yo'
@JosephWright that's the reason why I nominated myself. Once there are enough people, I can cancel the nomination.
 
10:18 AM
@yo' I think people should let the electorate decide :-)
@yo' Do you plan to make TUG2015?
 
yo'
@JosephWright yes, but should it happen that the 9th person deserves it more than me, I can let them through (we know these manipulations from municipal and state parliaments)
@JosephWright yes, but it'll be tough. I return from an exhaustive 2-week scout camp on Sat 18th, and it's 6 hours by car to Darmstadt, which is a lot.
 
@yo' I'm hoping to get there
@yo' Fingers-crossed the LaTeX3 Project will pay
 
yo'
@JosephWright cool
 
@JosephWright I'm writing papers like a madman to make it to Europe. :)
@JosephWright ooh project money! /dances
 
yo'
@PauloCereda you should be writing one paper that'll be perfect ;)
 
10:24 AM
@yo' Or I could have you guys in the committee. :)
 
yo'
@PauloCereda you naughty! :D
 
@yo' Oh stop you. :)
 
@PauloCereda.... A good morning ding ding ding ;-)
Good morning to everyone else in here of course too ;-)
 
@ChristianHupfer Hello!
@egreg: could you help me find a word in Latin? :)
 
@PauloCereda: I know a little bit of Latin too, perhaps I may help
 
10:36 AM
@ChristianHupfer Cool! :) It's an unusual word: napkin. Some references say I could use mapa (which I know it was used for cloth), but I'm not sure.
 
@PauloCereda: Brilliant... some word one learns in Latin courses at school ;-)
@PauloCereda: My online Latin translator says "mappa",mappae as plural
 
@ChristianHupfer oh!
 
@PauloCereda: Do you mean napkin -- the napkin used at a table during a meal?
 
@ChristianHupfer Yes, I'll tell you the context: my supervisor and I make annotations during our coffee time by writing text on several napkins. I would like to make a reference to it like they do with ex-libris, which is the remark/annotation in the beginning of the book in which you write your name or something like that. :)
3
 
@PauloCereda: I just fell off my chair because I had to laugh ....
@PauloCereda: ex-mappa and as sub-classification: The one with two coffee spots ;-) Published offline at Starbucks ;-)
 
10:51 AM
@ChristianHupfer :)
@ChristianHupfer LOL
 
yo'
mappa is a scarf also, I would prefer mantele, which is a towel.
 
@yo': Don't be silly... nobody would write remarks on a scarf :-P
 
@ChristianHupfer Douglas Adams wouldn't agree with you. :)
 
yo'
@ChristianHupfer sorry, I wrote it badly, the dictionary says that mantele is both a napkin and a towel
 
@yo': I was imitating scolding you :D
 
yo'
11:00 AM
@ChristianHupfer lol
 
@ChristianHupfer, @yo': let's wait for @egreg, so he can pwn us all in Latin. :)
 
@PauloCereda: Will you force @TorbjørnT. to apply for the TUG membership contest as well?
 
yo'
Have you noticed that it's not the community but @Paulo who decides the TUG membership? :P
 
@yo': @PauloCereda is the community ;-)
3
 
@PauloCereda I find that mappa is the term to use.
 
11:13 AM
@egreg Thank you! :)
@ChristianHupfer Let me poke cfr first. :)
 
@PauloCereda: he is very reluctant :-(
 
@ChristianHupfer She. :)
 
@PauloCereda: She????
 
yo'
@ChristianHupfer lol
 
Ladies and gentleman... @PauloCereda works as a secret agent at the NSA -- he knows anything
 
11:18 AM
@ChristianHupfer Just because you painted your forest black. :)
 
yo'
@ChristianHupfer NSA is the lesser of the evils ... :D
 
@PauloCereda: Oy!!!!
 
@ChristianHupfer <3
 
@yo': Lesser than what? Math.SX? ;-)
 
I need to buy that Black Forest Biscuit again... hmmm
 
yo'
11:19 AM
@ChristianHupfer probably
 
@PauloCereda: I've raised an export ban to Brazil for that cookies!
 
@ChristianHupfer Oh no!
 
@PauloCereda: No "Brätli" from Black Forest for you any longer (diabolic laughter)
 
@ChristianHupfer Noooooo!
 
yo'
@ChristianHupfer I've read it as diacritic laughter at first :D
 
11:22 AM
@yo': :D Typical Czech .... my god..it's full of diacritics :-P
 
yo'
@ChristianHupfer že váháš :D
 
@yo': I hope that was no insult ;-)
 
yo'
@ChristianHupfer no, it's not an insult. It's difficult to translate though, it's a very informal figure of speech that means of course. Moreover, it's in tutoyer form rather than vouvoyer.
 
@yo': I believe you.... this time...
 
yo'
slovnik.cz/bin/… << not that I know what natch means in English @Christian
gotta go in short, it's sushi time today :)
 
11:29 AM
@yo': Yes, I have to start cooking too... Italian ... pasta
 
yo'
pasta's not my fav food
 
11:52 AM
@yo': I don't like Sushi, so what ? ;-)
 
yo'
@ChristianHupfer so nothing :D
 
@StefanKottwitz Still, travelling costs money. I remember going to Mainz by train and back to FG. Almost 200 Euro.
@ChristianHupfer Basically, the Q on hard to use is opinion baased.
I bet @egreg or @david feel that it is not hard to use at all.
 
@Johannes_B: Yes, that's why I just commented, nothing more
 
@ChristianHupfer Did you have a further look at mathtools' shortvdotsadjust?
 
@Johannes_B: Even with me limited knowledge of TeX core stuff I don't say it's difficult to use...(or just because of this limited knowledge?) I love TeX ... sometimes this love is one-sided ;-)
@Johannes_B: Nope, since that's not my topic actually, I have no experience on that. I imagine that there is some TeX length register which controls the spacing
 
12:01 PM
@ChristianHupfer I presented the solution in the question. It was obvious after looking at the sources.
 
cfr
@PauloCereda No worries. I was just checking because my email is not always very reliable. (That is, it is never reliable and it does not always work.)
 
@Johannes_B: Which question?
 
@Johannes_B we think it should be as hard as possible
 
cfr
@PauloCereda No. I don't. Not at the moment.
 
12:06 PM
@Johannes_B: Sorry, I had no idea it's a golatex question. Thought you would ask on your own...
 
@DavidCarlisle Making more questions getting higher chances of getting rep? ;-)
 
@DavidCarlisle @Johannes_B: I just kick-started the close queue for the "LaTeX is so hard to use" post ;-)
 
@cfr Could you consider writing your name down an applying for a TUG membership, please? :)
@cfr: It would be awesome to have you on that list. :) You help the community with great questions and answers, and you like cats! :)
 
@cfr: It was @PauloCereda who asked you, not my fault, not my fault ...
@PauloCereda: I like cats too :-P
 
@ChristianHupfer Yay!
 
12:12 PM
The only qualification to get on the TUG list: you have to like cats ;-)
 
@ChristianHupfer Yay cats!
 
@ChristianHupfer What's his/her name?
 
@PauloCereda: It's a tomcat... Findus... after the very popular Swedish child book 'Petterson and Findus' ....
 
@ChristianHupfer :)
 
12:17 PM
@ChristianHupfer What is the weather situation at your place?
 
Lunch time.... Penne al Arrabiata ..... muy picante....
@Johannes_B: Quite stormy and warm... about 12°C ... and in Freiberg?
@Johannes_B: Sorry, till later on, I have to go
 
@ChristianHupfer Buon appetit.
@ChristianHupfer According to wetter.de warm (14C) and bit cloudy; with a warning of storm for Böblingen. Checking again, 12C and cloudy. Looking out of the window: warm, sunny.
 
@Johannes_B Since that's only my opinion, I voted for closing. ;-)
 
12:34 PM
If a question gets 4 or 5 quite long answers in an hour, there is probably something going on.
 
@DavidCarlisle Is it a better-practice for these Fortran numerical macros that all the information is precomputed? An example,
Most of the time I see a matrix function is called with blabla(A,m,n) where m,n is the size or rank or whatever property of the matrix A that can be computed also within blabla function
But that is always provided externally.
 
@percusse: sir do you have a TUG membership? :)
 
@DavidCarlisle I'm guessing that we might have computed the property m,n already so in case we have it we can save a few flip-flops. Is there any other deeper reason?
@PauloCereda Nope
 
@percusse Could you please add your name here? meta.tex.stackexchange.com/questions/5905/… Please, please, pretty please. :)
 
@PauloCereda I don't have any problems to nominate myself but I would really not use the membership. Somebody who is interested should get one.
I have 99 python problems and TeX ain't one :P
 
12:42 PM
@percusse use shmuse. :) Write you name, sir. :)
@percusse 99 bugs in the code. You get one, fix it, commit the new code. 101 bugs in the code. :)
 
Censoring for inline :) youtube.com/watch?v=6uikJTnmtgw
 
@percusse LOL
 
12:59 PM
@Johannes_B: Thanks... it was delicious
 
@ChristianHupfer Today: Chili
 
1:10 PM
@Johannes_B: I thought Solyanka was the desired menu? ;-)
 
@ChristianHupfer Change of plans?
 
@Johannes_B: One can't rely on you :-P
 
cfr
@PauloCereda @ChristianHupfer already tried this. But I've only been here a year. There are lots of people who have been here much longer and are much more useful. And I'm sure some of them must like cats, too!
 
@cfr: I've noted your resistance...
 
yo'
@Johannes_B you mean the one that's gonna be zapped?
 
1:18 PM
@cfr: But I don't agree with your reasoning on your objection.. I won't say anymore on that.
 
@yo' yes.
 
yo'
@Johannes_B ok, so I think I stated clearly my opinion on it :)
 
@cfr Please, reconsider. :) You are a great person and contributor to this community. :) It would be awesome to have you on the list. You have, in one year, has at least twice the number of answers I've ever provided in three years of TeX.sx, and you come here in the chatroom to talk with us and we can all have fun. :) Please, please, pretty please with sugar on top, accept this humble token of appreciation. :)
4
 
@PauloCereda: Well written, Paulo!
 
And you know Welsh! :) So TeX is a breeze for you. :P
 
yo'
1:33 PM
@PauloCereda i lol'd
@cfr You belong there, being #11 user last year, with most of the people above you not being eligible:
 
@yo' I was only at 25 or even worse :-(
 
yo'
@ChristianHupfer which is still pretty much on top of that league. And the league is just a league, after all, and nothing more.
 
@yo': Don't say such evil things... the league dominates my life ;-)
 
yo'
@ChristianHupfer lol, ok :)
 
@PauloCereda: The league of extraordinary gentlemen and ladies ;-) @yo'
@PauloCereda: What about AlanMunn? Does he have a membership. Or Mico?
 
yo'
1:48 PM
@ChristianHupfer I think that Alan has an individual membership
Btw, a commentary from the last year @cfr :
Just a remark: If anyone considers a candidature, but has a feeling of not being "too strong", they should just give it a try and post one. The 8 memberships we are allowed should be taken as 8 opportunities for people to get more involved in the wider TeX community :)yo' Jan 5 '14 at 13:35
2
 
@yo': Which coincidence you made this comment ;-)
 
yo'
@ChristianHupfer yo', your favourite hiring manager, at your service, Sir! :)
 
@yo' You hired yourself, accordingly, into my 'services' ;-)
 
yo'
@ChristianHupfer sure
 
@yo': Don't be disappointed if I employ a firing manager to fire... er... well, fill in your name ;-)
 
yo'
1:55 PM
@ChristianHupfer lol
 
I have to go offline for an hour ... see you later
 
2:30 PM
I'm hoping for more candidates for the TUG membership: at the moment, the mod team might have to pick some people!
@cfr You've not had me lean on you to join UK-TUG yet ;-)
 
yo'
2:44 PM
@JosephWright that's just strange, usually when something's for free, you get so many people wanting it!
@JosephWright When mods mod their own posts: meta.music.stackexchange.com/q/2055/2576
 
@yo' Certainly one has to be cautious in such cases
 
yo'
@JosephWright yes. This case shows nothing less or more than that the moderator is a bad moderator when it comes to abusing the powers he has.
 
@yo' As you will appreciate, I am not about to offer an opinion one way or another one that
 
yo'
@JosephWright I'm fine with this I think :)
 
3:10 PM
I am in the hospital now. :(
 
@PauloCereda Eek
 
From a question in Math.SE: “I am new to logic equations so please bare with me...”
 
@egreg Take all of your clothes off?
 
@Joseph: so far I am not dying, so it is good. :)
 
@PauloCereda What's up?
 
3:29 PM
@JosephWright :)
 
3:45 PM
@Mico No problem on that TUGboat link
 
There are signs in the hospital typeset with Comic Sans! Help!
I am gonna get even sickier.
 
@PauloCereda Hey! What's up?
 
@PauloCereda Run!
(If you can)
The puzzling site seems like an 'interesting' place: meta.stackexchange.com/questions/246727/…
 
@JosephWright “Strong personality”.
 
@egreg Possibly
@egreg The puzzling site seems to have some issues
 
4:09 PM
@PauloCereda: What's the matter? :-(
 
@PauloCereda Hey, Paulo, what's up? (or down?)
Rep cap today; first time ever, I think.
 
@Brent.Longborough Looking forward to your reply on the UK-TUG committee list
@Brent.Longborough :-)
@Brent.Longborough You can check from tex.stackexchange.com/reputation (at the bottom)
 
@Brent.Longborough: Mortarboard badge ;-) Good answer as well!!!!
 
@JosephWright I'm off to Turkey (again) tomorrow; I'll write to you about that. Not straightforward, I'm afraid, but I need to discuss with you.
 
@Brent.Longborough OK
 
4:19 PM
@ChristianHupfer Hmm, not sure how good. The comment criticising "TeX is old" has some merit.
 
@Brent.Longborough But C built on other related systems to a much greater extent than TeX build on others
@Brent.Longborough Also, in the late 1970s it was clear general programming languages were needed, but not that general programming within a typesetter might be useful
 
@JosephWright Ah, you mean C has more heritage (BCPL etc), while TeX was brand new? You might want to comment on that.
 
@Brent.Longborough Yes
@Brent.Longborough It's called C as there was B, etc. :-)
@Brent.Longborough My feeling is the question to opinion based and too broad, so I'm staying away
 
@JosephWright Oh, yes, indeed.
 
@Brent.Longborough There is lots I might say but it would not constitute an answer in my mind
 
4:22 PM
@JosephWright Yes, me too, but I thought it an opportunity to give l3 a boost
 
@Brent.Longborough: I like your answer on that question. TeX is old, definitely, but I have made a comment on that question (I think, I was the first one) that many relics of TeX are the consequence of late 70's computer standards
@JosephWright: I started the close vote as too broad and did not post an answer, perhaps the same reasoning you had/have
 
@ChristianHupfer Yes. My view on the archaeology of programming (in another subfield, assembler) is that in the late sixties we didn't really know what we were doing; everything was too new and we made mistakes (I certainly did). Then, along came our successors who copied our mistakes, and made them worse. Do that for ten five-year cycles and you have a real mess. Even though you personally have learned to do it right in the interim.
 
@ChristianHupfer There's the usual TeX/LaTeX confusion to worry about too: that alone would take a few paragraphs
 
@JosephWright: Yes, of course, but let's be not too harsh about this distinction in this particular case ;-)
 
@JosephWright Nice link! thanks
 
4:29 PM
@ChristianHupfer It's important, though: Knuth's design vision for TeX is actually very different from how LaTeX2e (and ConTeXt) work
Let alone pgf/TikZ/, expl3, ...
 
@Brent.Longborough: Well, that's one point: the wrong recycling of old code ... And the possibilites modern cpu's etc. and compilers allow compared to the technology of, say, 1970.
 
@ChristianHupfer Yes. In my particular case, it's really painful seeing new programmers even defending egregious mistakes that I once made then learned not to do.
 
@JosephWright: I agree with you that there are \huge differences. But do you agree that the OP did not get the point that the many features he is 'missing' are actually contained in TeX and it's offsprings?
@Brent.Longborough: egregious mistakes ... my dear :D :D
3
 
@ChristianHupfer To some extent: he's looking at things from the POV of a 'classical' programmer. For example, while people like floats they are not really so important for TeX (certainly not as Knuth designed it)
@ChristianHupfer I also think the OP is confusing 'LaTeX user' with 'LaTeX designer' with '(La)TeX programmer'
 
@JosephWright: I was looking on TeX the same way (You remember some of my strange questions? ;-))
 
4:36 PM
@ChristianHupfer Yes
@ChristianHupfer I can see how this happens: most of my experience is TeX-based, but I do know a bit of other languages
 
@JosephWright: I agree with you that the OP is confusing it
@Brent.Longborough: Sorry, I have to laugh again... egregious is in fact an English word. I thought you would refer to egreg .... ious ;-)
 
@DavidCarlisle Did you try that XeTeX stuff yesterday or should I take a look now?
 
4:52 PM
@JosephWright: An everyday LaTeX (no objections on the differences please ;-)) user who just wants to finish his article for a publication won't need programming features from TeX. The more sophisticated a document is some experiencies are becoming more and more important, although the programming styles are different.
 
@JosephWright No I got called off to play monopoly , the outcome of which you may have seen in last nights comments :(
@percusse remamber that LAPACK and similar interfaces are designed for F77 with no internal allocation so you always have to pass in an array to hold the result and some indication of the size of the array you've passed in.
 
@JosephWright: Wrong post
0
Q: tabu + htlatex Problem

Koni(haven't found an email, please forward) Dear Florent Chervet, Dear Karl Berry, I use your tabu package but I cannot get it to work with htlatex. Will it be supported? Please also refer to tex4ht + tabu-package does not work . BR and thanks for your work (C:\Users\user_local\AppData\Roaming\M...

 
@ChristianHupfer He's in trouble there with tabu
@DavidCarlisle OK, I'll look at it in a bit (by nephew has just arrived)
 
@JosephWright: I have no idea about tabu and htlatex, but the post itself does not fit to the site?
 
@ChristianHupfer That too
 
5:06 PM
@JosephWright thanks. are you planning to check in new ini files or just handle that out of svn ?
 
@DavidCarlisle We don't currently supply .ini files, but if wanted I'll put together a set of 'suggested examples'
 
@JosephWright I know, but what I mean is given whats in texlive and whats in svn can I build an xelatex to test the new stuff or do I need to make a local edited ini file?
 
@DavidCarlisle Ah
@DavidCarlisle The entire plan is that latex.ltx will build a reasonable format :-)
@DavidCarlisle xetex -ini -etex latex.ltx should be all that's needed: with my checkins it will now read the hyphenation patterns, etc., properly
 
@JosephWright even for luatex? oh I suppose it doesn't need to the lua font stuff for the test suite?
 
@DavidCarlisle Yes, I added a check for that and enable the primitives as appropriate
 
5:13 PM
@JosephWright Oh OK, good, I see.
 
@DavidCarlisle The formats don't load any Lua code, so no extended font loader for LuaTeX
 
cfr
@PauloCereda Hope sudden silence does not mean the typography proved lethal...?
 
I am offline.. please keep me informed on @PauloCereda ...
 
@Christian, @Joseph, @egreg, @cfr, @Brent: apparently it's some sort of ear infection. I can't hear a thing from my left ear, so the doctor gave me a couple of medicines. :)
 
@PauloCereda Keep care!
 
5:23 PM
@egreg Thank you, I will. :)
 
5:34 PM
@DavidCarlisle Oh, so am I understanding right? Suppose the routine should produce three things; an array, and two scalars. They are wrapped in an array that I have to dissect afterwards accordingly?
@PauloCereda You should stop listening to junk music :P Have some Erik Satie until you recover
 
5:54 PM
@percusse -- i've opened a new room, texpubs; i did that since i hope to get information that i want to be able to find easily later.
 
@PauloCereda Get well soon, or the nightingale will pine
 
@Brent.Longborough Thanks. :)
@percusse ooh! :)
 
@ChristianHupfer It's considered slightly rude to say 'Starbucks' to persons from Brazil. :-)
 
@percusse I'd give some different suggestions.
 
@percusse no I think we are misunderstanding each other, I'll dig up an example...
@percusse Compare LAPACK interfaces nag.co.uk/numeric/fl/nagdoc_fl24/html/F08/f08aef.html and nag.co.uk/numeric/mb/manual64_24_1/html/F08/f08aef.html Fortran interfaces has scalar inputs to give the size of arrays and needs either extra input to hold the result or (as here) over-write the input, but the matlab interface allocates new memory to hold the result and doesn't need the scalar inputs as the array has intrinsic size
bizarre: every answer to this question has at least one downvote.
27
Q: Why is LaTeX so complicated

Jamie VicaryI have been using LaTeX professionally almost every day for almost 10 years, so I think I can say that, by now, I more or less know what I'm doing. I also do a lot of ordinary computer programming, in traditional languages like C++ and Visual Basic. As I compare LaTeX to these other languages, th...

 
6:29 PM
@Brent.Longborough: I did not say Starbucks to @PauloCereda ;-)
@PauloCereda: Get well soon!!!
 
@DavidCarlisle It need just one user who likes to downvote each one
 
7:02 PM
@DavidCarlisle: Your answer is the only one without downvote (so far)... This question is, as I've said from the beginning, too broad and should have been closed immediately. (or better: not even been posted at all). Too much opinions going in 360 degree directions.
 
@ChristianHupfer no it had a downvote, that's how I notoced.
 
@DavidCarlisle See 'burning edge' checkins for L2e and L3: you can now test with XeTeX
 
@StefanKottwitz sure but that's not the usual pattern here:-0
@JosephWright ooh thanks
 
@DavidCarlisle: Then somebody has retracted the downvote in the meantime
 
@ChristianHupfer so they have:-)
 
7:05 PM
@DavidCarlisle Just checking if I can just extend to test everything by default
@DavidCarlisle May need a few more adjustments
 
Have a nice time here, I am off... @DavidCarlisle: No, I won't play monopoly this evening ;-)
 
@JosephWright OK I think I may try to get some of the tests update so they pass, before doing any more.
@ChristianHupfer quite wise
 
cfr
7:38 PM
@PauloCereda I hope he gave you relevant medicines and that they work soon!
 
8:20 PM
@DavidCarlisle OK, with latest checkins you can add xetex to the engine coverage. That adds 25 failures for me, mainly related to ^^ notation in the log (you get real chars for XeTeX).
 
8:36 PM
@JosephWright ah that of course is why we originally started using that acsii.tcx file to normalise 8bit output.
 
@DavidCarlisle Yes but XeTeX just ignores it
@DavidCarlisle Still checking a few things: one typo
 (WARNING: translate-file "./ascii.tcx" ignored)
@DavidCarlisle Will you be sorting out the test failures?
 
@JosephWright yes well try at least to sort them and send some mail, some of the fixltx2e diffs date from when I was more or less out the loop so it's not always immediately obvious what the diff is doing so i don't want to check them in, the addvspace change in particular adds lots of pointless skips, it may be as intended but can't but make you wonder if it's the right change exactly, eg lots like:
  ...\glue 60.0
+ ...\glue -60.0
+ ...\glue 60.0
@JosephWright mean to say "don't want to check them in without mail first"
 
@DavidCarlisle Yes, they seem decidedly odd
@DavidCarlisle I suspect lack of tests might be involved here: has this stuff actually be looked at before
 
8:51 PM
@JosephWright see eg tlb3073.lvt which loaded fixltx2e to test the intention of the change (we should change that:-)
 
@DavidCarlisle Ah
 
@JosephWright but of course that is just really the test file from the bug, showing fixltx2e fixed it, this is first time that fix been applied to whole test suite
 
@DavidCarlisle Test file doesn't look at box detail
 
@JosephWright I know:-)
@JosephWright Oh I understand now, will send something by mail.
 
9:07 PM
@DavidCarlisle Cool
 
9:44 PM
@JosephWright took longer to write than I intended:-)
 
 
1 hour later…
11:00 PM
@DavidCarlisle Not going to comment on the list as I don't know the detail for this :-) That said, looks sensible to me
 
@JosephWright OK as I say it's from a time I wasn't really watching either, lets see what Frank says. Were you planning to comment on package versioning?
 
@DavidCarlisle I'm letting you and Frank argue that one out :-)
@DavidCarlisle I think I said that anything outside of the kernel/required stuff is not realistic for LaTeX2e
 
@JosephWright you said that here, which isn't quite the same thing:-)
 
@DavidCarlisle Ah
@DavidCarlisle Well Frank is in charge
 
@JosephWright I think for now I'm going to comment out the addpenalty change to get the list of diffs down and then try to finish off adding the rest of fixltx2e
 
11:08 PM
@DavidCarlisle Probably a good plan: it does make a lot of 'noise'
 
@JosephWright but he likes an argument:-)
 

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