@DavidCarlisle Aren't you lacking an \immediate?

@JosephWright i was avoiding immediate as @PauloCereda said he wanted page numbers

@DavidCarlisle It's working like a charm. :)

@DavidCarlisle But for \openout that's not really relevant

@DavidCarlisle Or rather it's complicated

@JosephWright don't be in such a hurry, you can delay operning until you write:-)

@DavidCarlisle (I have a worry in this area for expl3)

@DavidCarlisle Of course

Just a quick question: any way of having accents in \write\foo{ááááá} as is instead of good ol' TeX escape? :)

@PauloCereda yes

@DavidCarlisle ooh do tell me, kind sir. :)

` \protected@write\foo{}{ááááá} `

If I want a full page image with caption, is there a simple way to get the textheight minus the height of the caption box?

@PauloCereda \write\foo{\unexpanded{ááááá}}

@AndrewCashner if you don't know how many lines are in the caption, you need to set that in a box register first and measure its height then subtract from textwidth, details depend a bit on how you are setting captions some packages add extra skips etc

@Joseph, @David: thank you! :)

@PauloCereda Joseph is so modern and spurns all the macro trickery of the 2e \protect mechanism;-)

@DavidCarlisle :)

@DavidCarlisle I was thinking along those lines. Such a thing would be a handy macro, \includegraphics[height=\fullpagewithcaption]{img}. For now I will just guess with 0.8\textheight.

@AndrewCashner in most (many, some?) documents it is the width rather than height that is the limiting factor

@DavidCarlisle Yes

@DavidCarlisle :-)

@JosephWright but we invested a lot of sweat/blood beer on that shame to give it up for a single primitive \unexpanded

@DavidCarlisle LOL

@DavidCarlisle That's OK, you also need \protected :-)

Last question for today: \write\foo{\unexpanded{Página final:} \numexpr\thepage-1\relax} is not calculated. Do I need to force expansion in this case?

@PauloCereda \number\numexpr

@JosephWright Ouch, of course! I feel so silly right now. :( Thank you. :)

@PauloCereda \protected@write does have one feature that using \unexpanded doesn't but probably no one ever needs that and it's considerably more complicated internally. but using 2e \protect systems the string gets written out in LICR encoding ie traditional ascci \'{a} markup, by design this means that you can use different input encodings in different parts of the document, and aux and other files are written in an encoding neutral way

@JosephWright ^^ :-)

@DavidCarlisle Indeed

@DavidCarlisle You know my position on LICR in the 2000s

@PauloCereda but use \value{page} not \thepage as the latter is its print form and may be roman numerals or "7 of 9" or whatever so not amenable to subtracting 1

@DavidCarlisle What I was about to say.

@egreg late as ever

@DavidCarlisle I think here I have common ground with Chris R. (but perhaps not so forcefully :-)

@DavidCarlisle Ah, you can understand what he wants: better than I can manage :-)

@JosephWright but first we need to move latex into an etex era...

@DavidCarlisle Which bits?

@DavidCarlisle I guess you mean the kernel

@JosephWright more than 256 register bits

@PauloCereda Fish for dinner, so it was longer than usual. ;-)

@egreg I guess your guests were a slow-eating species? Or did they just have large appetites?

@DavidCarlisle Thanks. :)

@egreg ooh! :)

@DavidCarlisle Ah, the bit I've been on about fo rages :-)

@DavidCarlisle I think you'll just have to check it in

Yay, @AlanMunn is back! Hi Alan! :)

@JosephWright something like that.

@PauloCereda Hi Paulo. Cute picture, BTW.

@AlanMunn Welcome! Long time no see!

@AlanMunn Thanks. A Santa Duck. :)

@DavidCarlisle I suppose I might have to do the same with the lccode business

I dropped in to say: Every un-understandable question requires an answer to match...

@AlanMunn I went to a concert yesterday: Quantz, Heinechen, Händel and Bach. The conductor was Reinhard Göbel.

@egreg Hi. Yes, I've been really busy this semester and had not much time for the site.

@egreg Sounds really nice.

@AlanMunn @PauloCereda And in a magnificent place: St. Anthony's basilica, which for us is simply “il Santo”.

@egreg The last concert I went to was the Belcea Quartet playing Mozart, Berg and Brahms. Of course I liked the Berg (Lyric Suite) best... :)

@egreg How nice! :) Surely one place to go when I visit you. :)

@egreg Yes, there's something about music of that time (or earlier) played in a church that really adds to it a lot.

@PauloCereda With Donatello's bronzes decorating the altar.

@AlanMunn And it was mostly sacred music.

@PauloCereda Here's a picture of some of them: the Virgin, St. Francis and St. Anthony

@egreg Wow!

@PauloCereda Unfortunately, during the 19th century an •&^% displaced the bronzes, so they seem to look in the wrong direction.

@egreg Did some of the pieces include vocal parts too?

@egreg Quite beautiful images. :)

@Alan: I got me an Apple TV. I'm having so much fun lately. :)

@AlanMunn Yes: a mottetto by Quantz, one by Händel and a piece from one of Bach's cantatas (BWV 151).

@egreg Really nice. I wish I could have been there.

@PauloCereda What is it good for?

@AlanMunn A couple of years ago, Göbel conducted Händel's Messiah in the same place.

@egreg Halleluja! :)

@AlanMunn Music I'm never tired of hearing.

@AlanMunn Streaming and mirroring. :) I got Netflix and the Air Play is something very nice: I can mirror my stuff from the iPad in the big screen (just videos or the screen itself), and my Mac already learned about my new iGadget and now I can mirror my Mac screen as well and also share my iTunes library. :)

@egreg Neither am I. :)

@PauloCereda I see. I don't have a TV, just a Mac and a projector.

@AlanMunn ooh!

@PauloCereda Big screen experience that you can pack away when not in use.

disaster in kitchen :D

@tohecz Chocolate wave, yay!

@AlanMunn ooh! :)

@PauloCereda no, first attempt to make frothed milk, moreover without the proper equip

@tohecz All you need: ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/10076320

@AlanMunn well, I've got a good mixer, but (1) I spilled the milk on my gas cooker, (2) I made the coffee way too long (I forgot to switch it off), (3) the milk suddenly almost overflew, (4) the cup I chose is too small, and (5) I forgot to mix the sugar in the coffee before putting on the foam.

@tohecz Sounds like a scene from a bad sitcom. (BTW, 'overflowed').

@AlanMunn really? spellchecker didn't complain

@AlanMunn LOL

@tohecz Well 'overflew' is the past tense of what a plane does. But not what a liquid does. Apparently your spell checker doesn't know this. :)

@AlanMunn damn, there's overflow vs overflow in English?

@tohecz That's overfly

@tohecz No. 'flew' is the past tense of 'fly' not 'flow'. 'flow' is regular, and therefore so is 'overflow'.

@AlanMunn @egreg damn

well, that fits too I think: the milk was flying at one moment :D

@tohecz :) Fair enough!

however, no matter the way, the coffee is nice :)

@tohecz Sounds like you got stuck in one of these: youtube.com/watch?v=3eMCURWpNAg

@AlanMunn "did a flyover" (plane) vs. "overflowed" (milk) right?

@AndrewCashner sorry, had to stop it after 90 seconds :D

@AndrewCashner Yes.

my musical idea is not finished yet. I think I'll let it settle down for a day or two and do it on Friday

its-not-my-fault tex.stackexchange.com/questions/218319/…

@tohecz Once I saw a really funny compilation of these. That one wasn't quite it. But I love how hard they make everyday tasks look. "It's impossible to open a soda can!"

@DavidCarlisle And you left me the hard work!

@DavidCarlisle Nice declaring all columns as L and then use \multicolumn{1}{C}{...} throughout.

@egreg just following my hints I see;-)

have a good night/day everyone.

@PauloCereda What is a good practice to initialize an instance?

@AndrewCashner Good night!

@PauloCereda I mean, I've created representations of dynamical systems in state space and if someone, say changes the sampling frequency, I need to recalculate the attributes of that instance. Does this sound familiar and to what? :)

@percusse Constructor of factory. :) It depends on the class. :)

@percusse It almost crashed my brain. :)

@PauloCereda I knew you are one of them...

In english if possible :P

So ok simple example. So I define a class, holy guacamole let me type it in

class sys(a,b,c,d):
    self.a = a.... bla bla
    def __init__(self):
         do something with those inputs and send it to attribute calculator

continuing...

So far so good. :)

                                 def __Recalc():
                                        poles = eig(a)
                                        zeros = somestuff(a,b,c,d)

too much indentation hehe

so say I have an instance S = sys(a,b,c,d)

I want to let the users fiddle with its properties such as if a user gives

S.a = <some matrix here>

I want the recalc to reinstantiantitiiaititate that instance

@DavidCarlisle And got the tick. :P

@percusse Got it. :)

such that poles and zeros attribs of that instance are updated

@egreg typical

@PauloCereda is this formally called something

well actually I should have typed self.poles etc.

@percusse Nothing that I can remember. Let me take a quick look at my patterns book.

@PauloCereda Pattern book? Really? Oh what kind of strange stuff I'll ever see in this OOP business?

@percusse in c# it would be a "property" so at the use level it looks like just assigning a value to a field but internally the class can assign an arbitrary set function that gets called with that value and can do whatever

@percusse I'm going into online mode, hold on. :)

@DavidCarlisle Indeed. :)

@DavidCarlisle That part I've covered I guess. I'm making a property of the class then defining getter/setter about it. But I feel there is more to it

So it looks like ;

@property
def a(self): return self.a

@a.setter
bla bla

if they use S.a

the value is shown

if they use S.a = something then it is set

@percusse isn't that just what you asked for above (if the bla in the set code calls the recalc method?

@DavidCarlisle But setting part requires the class to reinstantiate itself and I was curious if there is a formal instantiation way rather than calling the __init__ and creating the instance from scratch

@percusse you lost me but my java is about the level of my portuguese

@DavidCarlisle At least you are aware that a language is spoken :)

@percusse and the same source answers all queries about either

@DavidCarlisle I'll type the code into Google Translate

@percusse write the code in fortran and translate to java, should be OK (i have some xslt going from fortran to c#:-)

@DavidCarlisle I have really bad memories with Java which are reinforced after realizing that matlab is written with it

@percusse only the front bit

@DavidCarlisle I have been doing some user studies among academicians and engineers (about 50 people). I've asked them what they like and dislike and everybody almost unanimously starts with plotting and runtime libraries

about 35 of them mentioned gcf() as their enemy.

and handles

@percusse did you ask them if they'd rather still be doing what they did prior to matlab, coding the stuff in f77?

@DavidCarlisle You would be really surprised how many people recently switched to iPython environment.

@percusse @David maybe, I would not :)

which is why I've started coding the toolbox

@tohecz If you have complaints please write them down and send it to me. I'm really trying to be academical about this user study.

code snippets would help a lot. Because most of the numerical stuff is handled by scipy and numpy already so I'm following the footsteps of Till Tantau about the frontend.

consistency over verbosity

@percusse we see that here too to a certain extent: nag.com/market/articles/nag-library-for-python-enhanced

@DavidCarlisle that's great. I know a few quants and had a meeting with booking.com (dutch based company)

they all use python and kicked out matlab already for a long time

their backend people convert it into lower levels later of course but the lingo is python and R

Who would have thought that statisticians and machine learning people would be hip ? :)

@percusse well, I personally use Sage for just like everything, but you already know that. I just say that IMHO iPython is a nice step forward

@tohecz Too much to the other side of the spectrum though. I feel like using Mathematica

Hello

@bardzo Hi! Where have you been ? We were talking about you.

@percusse you mean that iP is similar to Mathematica?

@tohecz Yep. In[25]: stuff and how cells are arranged etc.

@bardzo hello, tell me please (if you don't object), where are you from?

Having a notebook :P

och, sorry. I 'm newbe and for short time i can write here ;D

@percusse yep that's true

@tohecz Poland

@tohecz And unfortunate array construction [[1,2],[3,4]]

@bardzo gotcha :D I thought so :) nice nickname

@egreg thanks for answer

@percusse looks like MATLAB to me

@tohecz Matlab is worse [1 2;3 4] but convenience-wise well double edged sword..

@percusse ah yeah I forgot completely

well, I'll leave you alone here, play some piano, read some of xkcd0 and then be off to bed. byez!

@DavidCarlisle May I ask the the order of magnitude of those Python libraries in terms of user price?

@tohecz Add this to your reading material: savagechickens.com

@PauloCereda bah, online comics. Books are better :) (disclaimer: when I'm bored with xkcd0, I still have whatif)

@tohecz I can't afford books, so vive la interwebz. :)

@PauloCereda I see

@tohecz I am a duck, I haz no money. :)

@PauloCereda I've got some chocolate euros here

@tohecz oooooooh

I have question: Is anybody who can help me write simple program in C to embeded metapost?

simple run without tex. I found some metapost API in C but canot compile it.

@PauloCereda well, bye! (I'm gonna work on the music. Will share when it's finished I promise :) )

#include <stdio.h>

int main(void) {
    printf("If you want to embed things in a C code\n");
    printf("you are gonna have a bad time.\n");
    return 0;
}

@percusse I don't know to be honest:-)

@tohecz see ya Tom! :)

@tohecz: I can spoil the surprise. There will be something for you soon. :)

@PauloCereda I would like to write interface to Ruby

@PauloCereda oh I'll be restless now! :)

Ruby is better than lua to tex and metapost

@DavidCarlisle That F01 is really a juicy looking one :)

@bardzo Hi! :) I actually don't understand what you want. :(

@percusse when I did mathematics it was mostly over finite fields, so a numerical library not much help:)

@PauloCereda Oh this is simple how run simple .mp file without commandline. Embeded it in a C program

@DavidCarlisle You are mathematic?

@DavidCarlisle You could have soldered some bits for modulo arithmatic :P

mostly automatic

tell me aleph_0 is a prime number or not?

@bardzo that's what it says on my passport, but I haven't actually been employed as a mathematician since sometime last century

is possible divide aleph_0 /1 and nothing one

@bardzo First tell if it is a number or not

this is number because aleph_0 is number of element, and number of element is from natural set

@DavidCarlisle ;D

@bardzo Not really :)

Why not.

cardinals != ordinals

@bardzo Still can't get it. If you write a C or Ruby code, you will run in command line.

@bardzo "number" isn't a defined term. i don't think a cardinal number like aleph is a member of any field where the notion of prime is defined

which basically is what @percusse just said as well:-)

@bardzo You're welcome! Did it work? ;-)

@egreg no ;( I must go sleep. But nice people here

@egreg does your code ever?

@DavidCarlisle ooh that's mean. :)

@egreg tell me is possible in TeX use different chars a? width differend wide

@bardzo I saw your question and didn't understand it, sorry.

I'm ask but nothing would answer to me

@bardzo But no, if you type “a” you get “a”.

@egreg TeX automaticaly break a line yes?

if i type a I get a yes, but if i type 'ae' i get one char ae

@bardzo I think you need to edit that question, it's not really understandable as it is

teX convert it.

TeX add some space in line

between words, etc.

@bardzo No, if you type ae you will get ae. If you type \ae you will get æ.

I have 3 different char 'a'

@bardzo typically you don't but you might (that depends on the font)

back to oop madness, have a good night!

@bardzo what do you mean by 3 a ? three glyphs in the sam efont assigned the same unicode point?

and i would to TeX not add space between words if they can convert my small a to wide a

@percusse Night night, sir. :) Don't let the python bite you. #eatenalive :)

@bardzo look at the microtype package

no in 3 different unicode number but 'logicaly' this same a

when type 'a' TeX choce witch a use to line

into line

@bardzo if they are assigned different slots in the encoding then to tex they are not three a they are a b c just as latin A and greek alpha may look the same but are unrelated as far as tex and the font are concerened

wich 'a' is better to fit in line.

@bardzo normally you'd expect such glyph variants to be assigned to the same point

@DavidCarlisle no, because this 3 'a' is still use ligatures ;D

@bardzo ?

@DavidCarlisle yes, glyph variant this same char

How I can tell to TeX 3 variants of glyph?