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12:03 AM
@egreg Interesting, I would have said that Vernazza was south of Genoa.
 
@AlanMunn South of Genoa there's only sea. ;-)
 
@egreg: oh my, those photos are shocking.
 
@egreg Technically true. But surely, e.g. Rome is south of Genoa?
 
@AlanMunn Well, it's at a lower latitude than Genoa. But quite East of it.
 
@egreg (This is a linguistic/folk geographic question I guess.) How do Italians generally describe the relations between places in the country, given that it's actual orientation is on a NW - SE diagonal.
 
12:07 AM
@AlanMunn Genoa: 44°24′40.16″N 8°55′57.58″E, Rome: 41°53′35″N 12°28′58″E
@AlanMunn Genoa is in Northern Italy, Rome in Central Italy. We don't use cardinal points very much.
Our roads rarely keep one direction.
@AlanMunn East and West are meaningful only for small sectors. For instance, Trieste is the far East of Norhern Italy, but it's actually West of Naples
 
@egreg Ok, that's what I'm getting at. In North America, cardinal points are used a lot, but there never absolute. For example, the island of Montreal is on a SW - NE diagonal, but the roads that head roughly W are called N and the roads that head S are called E, to line up with the general flow of the St Lawrence river, which the island is in.
 
So the Cinque Terre are actually South-East from Genoa, but we simply say East. Or, precisely, Levante, in Liguria
Since Liguria was almost all under Genoa domination, it's divided into Levante and Ponente. But it's not straight at all.
Our history is rather complicated, you know. ;-)
 
@egreg Yes, I find this interesting. I think most North Americans would conceptualize Italy as being on a N-S axis, and so use that to describe relative locations, hence my surprise that you described Vernazza as east and not south.
 
I like pizza.
(sorry, I was feeling an outcast). :)
 
@AlanMunn We broadly think N-S, too. But we never use "go North 4km, then East 3km". It would be meaningless in most places.
 
12:17 AM
@PauloCereda How would you describe where Vernazza is relative to Genoa? Do you think it's east or south?
 
@AlanMunn Oh. Can my south be your east? :)
 
@egreg Yes, I can see that, for sure.
 
@AlanMunn Vernazza is the red pin. This is East to me. ;-)
 
12:35 AM
@egreg Sure, but on the N-S axis it's south. By that, I mean, straighten the whole country so that Milan is due north and Catanzaro is due south. This is the conceptual axis. Now Vernazza is south of Genoa. :) As I said, this is not a question of actual geography.
Evidence for such a conceptual axis is that you don't call Southern Italy, Eastern Italy.
 
@AlanMunn Well, this is the North-American way of thinking. We don't think this way. “Why on earth should Milan be the reference?” would say somebody from Turin or Venice.
 
@egreg Remember, I'm a cognitive scientist, so I'm interested in how people think.
 
@AlanMunn Southern Italy is decidedly South. And it used to be an independent kingdom.
 
@egreg But to answer the question, Milan is roughly the midpoint of Northern Italy, so it makes sense to use that as a reference.
 
Called "Regno di Napoli" and then "Regno delle Due Sicilie" when it acquired Sicily.
 
12:39 AM
@egreg But it's also decidedly east, so by your Vernazza logic it should be Eastern Italy. :)
 
@AlanMunn No, we don't look at East and West that way.
 
@egreg I understand; just pointing out the contradictions. ;-)
 
@AlanMunn And Milan is definitely not the midpoint of Northern Italy; it's the Garda lake, 200 km East of Milan. ;-) And, for us, 200 km are a distance.
@AlanMunn We do think of the peninsular part going N-S, but that's all.
The non peninsular part is visualized roughly as a rectangle. So, two big blocks.
 
@egreg And for me, that's spitting distance. :) On Sunday I drove 900 km. :)
@egreg Ah, ok. That makes more sense of the contradiction.
 
@AlanMunn That's the main difference. For us 50km is a travel.
Good night everybody.
 
12:45 AM
@egreg Good night.
 
1:29 AM
any one here knows something about how to tell htlatex which image format to use for the mathematics it generates for display in the HTML? It seems to always generate .png now. I wanted to if it possible to make it generate some other format, say .jpg.
 
Hi, there is a boxed pattern on this form to help the user to fill it by hand. How can I create this boxed pattern with tikz? hottgenroth-akademie.de/uploads/pics/KM-66.jpg my current MWE is on github.com/jonasstein/bankformtex
 
1:54 AM
I found it. I am all set.
 
 
4 hours later…
6:02 AM
When doing reviews, about every other time I find myself disagreeing with existing flags or votes. I wonder if this happens also to other people?
 
@StephanLehmke If I disagree with a vote, I just skip it.
 
@Werner I wonder why? By piling up the votes will come in anyway, so it won't make a difference, would it?
 
6:42 AM
@StephanLehmke, I actually do the same as @Werner (which is comforting, because I thought I was just chickening out). Very rarely do I note dissent, and that is only when I have a very firm grasp of the topic at hand. Community agreement is important here on TeX.SX and we're all generally very nice. A question will be closed if and only if it really needs to be.
And my math soul just cringed; I doubt that there isn't a single case where a question is open where it should be closed (or vice–versa).
@DavidCarlisle Minecraft is a bottomless sink of time and a well for unsung creativity. I'm blessed to have a computer incapable of running it. :-)
 
Oh helpful people of the TeX chat, anyone around to help me figure out what I'm doing wrong in implementing the suggestion in the (sort of) answer to my question here?
 
J G
hi: does anybody know how i can make my tick marks darker and label the axes on this graph: mathb.in/12237?
 
7:08 AM
@SeanAllred I'm not sure where the nicety (niceness?) argument comes into play. Closing a question or flagging an answer is not inherently a nice thing to to.
 
@PauloCereda No, but not wanting to be the guy to close a question is.
@PauloCereda Or rather, not wanting to be the guy to get in the way of community efforts… I'm confusing myself. It's 2am here. Why am I TeXing?
 
@SeanAllred Just by the way, I'm not Paulo :-)
 
@StephanLehmke god i'm so tired. (Sorry @PauloCereda.)
 
@SeanAllred I'm not completely sure how you define "community". Considering how many people have the required privileges, if a handful of them vote to close or flag a post, they could as well be an extremist minority ;-)
 
@StephanLehmke If there is dissent on something, a meta question is usually opened about it for more general discussion. Having a 3/5 majority is what you hope for in a last-ditch effort of rock-paper-scissors—not in closing a q.
 
7:16 AM
I feel it's important to really try to judge the case at hand when reviewing. Of course there will probably be a lot of people who agree most of the times, but instead of just saying "the community will know best" it would probably be better not to review at all.
 
As someone whose primary SE experience comes from another SE (Phil.SE) I'm always very impressed with how y'all deal with new users and the closing process. It seems to me that a relatively small portion of questions are closed when compared to my other experiences. claps for TeX.SX
(on another note...it seems to me that a lot of other stacks use .SE to indicate .stackexchange, whereas TeX seems to almost universally use .SX)
 
@SeanAllred Ok, as I've heard no assent to my position so far, I'll quit reviewing for now. The community will know best ;-)
 
@StephanLehmke Sorry, I was TeXing. (Or rather, editing a question.) I can definitely see your POV, and so does the great majority (I presume) of the SE network—the functionality exists for a reason! If you feel strongly and disagree with a vote, vote against it.
@Dennis It's because X is intrinsically a better letter.
 
@SeanAllred I can get behind that.
 
@Dennis It's really a χ.
 
7:27 AM
@StephanLehmke I wholeheartedly support the random integration of greek letters into our texts!
Although I reserve the right to treat them as meta-language variables....
 
@Dennis I wonder how Greek scientists cope...
2
 
@StephanLehmke Their intended meaning is always among the possible assignments of meanings to variables, and I can't read greek anyways, so I think they're coming out ahead!
 
Well TeXnically the entire word 'tex' is Greek… a perfect wordplay on the marriage of art and skill to technology :-)
@StephanLehmke I've always wondered that, myself!
Goodnight, everyone—don't let the frostbite.
 
@SeanAllred Goodnight and may the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house!
 
 
1 hour later…
9:02 AM
Please, is there any chance to revert ones flags? Because of that super fucked review tools I flagged a wrong post...
 
@tohecz Hi Tom! Happy New Year!
 
@PauloCereda Hi Paulo! Happy New Year. And wish me luck with the new computer. I'm very close to taking it and killing some people by it.
 
@tohecz Oh my! sudo yum install lasergun
:)
 
@PauloCereda Well, in Windows8.1? :)
 
@tohecz Yuck.
 
9:04 AM
@PauloCereda well, I got it there and I paid for it. So I want it to fucking work.
 
@tohecz Yep.
 
@PauloCereda and the problem seems to be that the windows product key is bond to the partitioning of the hard drive, so it doesn't work for me :(
 
@tohecz Oh no.
 
@PauloCereda so I wrote to the shop that either they solve the problem or I return the notebook (which I can do in 2 weeks after purchase, by the Czech legislation)
 
@tohecz The Toshiba one?
 
9:21 AM
@PauloCereda yep
I'm not going to let them fuck me up
 
@tohecz Did you have to get a computer with Windows on it? Personally I would not without a gun to my head.
 
@tohecz I'd say for you to erase the partition table and install F20, but that might void the warranty.
 
@PauloCereda well, I have F20 and it's fine. But I paid for the windows and I want to use it when we have a LAN party with friends. However, some things obviously don't work without registration.
@FaheemMitha Basically, yes. You get 1 non-win PC offer for 10 yes-win ones (of course modulo ignore Apple)
 
@tohecz No idea what "1 non-win PC offer for 10 yes-win ones" means, sorry.
 
@FaheemMitha of 100 Notebooks in the catalog, 10 are without system, and they are not cheaper than the same one with Windows
 
9:33 AM
@tohecz Ok, I see. You can't easily get one without Windows installed. But (stating the obvious) because the thing is installed, it doesn't mean you have to use it.
 
@FaheemMitha yes, but I want to use it (from time to time) once I have it. And it should work, as I said, they are MF idiots that are not able to make it work with dual-boot
 
@tohecz I suppose. I have Windows installed on my laptop, and I use it very occasionally. I used some tax software on it once.
 
@FaheemMitha well, we organize LAN parties with friends, and most of the games are Win-only.
 
@tohecz: the problem with machines with Linux pre-installed is that they usually have inferior hardware. :(
At least, this is the scenario in Brazil.
 
But I generally regard Windows as an abomination.
@tohecz Ok. I see.
 
9:36 AM
@PauloCereda they have a very bad quality/price ratio, yes. I mean, in the end, you "don't pay anything for Windoze".
 
@PauloCereda Can't you order custom hardware?
Maybe not for laptops.
 
gotta go, it's 1030am time for breakfast
 
@FaheemMitha We are always behind in terms of hardware, so sadly the better offer is always get a pre-built stuff instead of a custom one, or we will end up getting an overpriced hardware. :(
 
@PauloCereda This is the case for Brazil?
 
@FaheemMitha Yep, sadly. :(
 
9:40 AM
@PauloCereda Yes, that is too bad.
 
Take my iMac, for instance: the hardware I have right now is far superior than any custom build from any vendor. :(
 
Here in India the situation is not good either. Poor choices for hardware, and overpriced. But I still prefer buying hardware of my choice than an pre-assembled machine.
 
@FaheemMitha I used to do the very same thing. :) Sadly I can't get access to custom parts for a fair price. :(
 
@PauloCereda That sucks.
 
@FaheemMitha remember that in the notebook, may things are hard-wired: CPU, GPU, wifi card, USB ports, card readers, display. Basically, you can opt for different HDD/SSD and RAM
 
9:46 AM
Just a taste of how things are insane around here: the new Playstation 4 is being sold here at R$ 4.000,00, which is close to €1,300!
 
@PauloCereda I don't know what's Playstation, sorry :p
 
@PauloCereda Wow! Right up to Christmas you could get them here for about £500 (so say €750)
 
@tohecz Blasphemy! :)
@JosephWright Oh my! Get one for me. :)
 
@PauloCereda whatever :p
 
@tohecz <3
 
9:47 AM
@PauloCereda My workstation's motherboard died in June 2013. So I had to replace the mb and the processor and the memory. I have a computer person, but they don't have very good customer skills - most of the time they just ignore you. So it took me like 2 months to get the parts replaced and the machine back up and working.
@PauloCereda That does seem pretty ridiculous.
 
@JosephWright: even the Sony CEO said he didn't want to sell any PS4 in Brazil because of the price. Sony is actually ashamed of how Brazilian market is full of taxes -- that increases the final price a lot and the company loses their market share. :)
 
The problem was that most of the hardware one wants to use with Linux is not available in India. It is very frustrating.
 
@FaheemMitha It is. :(
 
@FaheemMitha well, I don't really care about customizable HW since I have only notebooks :)
 
@JosephWright: Oh my, that meta thread is spooky.
 
9:59 AM
@tohecz Fair enough.
 
@PauloCereda The one I've deleted?
 
@JosephWright Yep.
 
@FaheemMitha well, I could update my 1TB HDD and 8GB RAM, but that would be an overkill ;)
 
@tohecz That's a laptop?
@PauloCereda What thread is that?
 
btw, @Joseph, can I do something with my flagging mistake I discover just after hitting "Flag Post" ?
 
10:07 AM
@FaheemMitha Some sort of threat a user received. Joseph removed it.
 
@FaheemMitha yes, that's a laptop. It' a good machine :)
 
@tohecz Let me know and I ignore it :-)
@FaheemMitha Had some details which could be taken as discussion of an individual user
 
@JosephWright Ok, I see.
 
@JosephWright well, it was an "ivalid flag" I issued on a post that should have had a "not an answer" flag, so I think it's fine. It's just that I hate doing these mistakes and that I'm a stat-hunter too :)
 
@tohecz That I know of there is no 'cancel flag'
 
10:11 AM
@JosephWright and no grace period either :-/ Well, no big deal here ;)
btw ad the meta post, WTF?
 
11:06 AM
Hello everyone. Belated Happy New Year! Procrastinating on TeX.SX, I wondered, if there is a way becoming a certified TeX user, similar to becoming a certified Linux professional. Does anyone know something about it?
 
@HenriMenke I'm trying to make David write me a certification, but he wants 10 bucks. :)
 
@HenriMenke Gets asked occasionally: 'no'
 
@PauloCereda Sounds like a fair price ;)
 
@HenriMenke The longtable one is usually the most expensive. :)
 
@JosephWright Too bad.
I'll write to the dante-mailinglist about this topic. Maybe someone volunteers.
 
11:18 AM
@HenriMenke Suggestions on how such a thing might work?
@HenriMenke Probably would need to have TUG involvement
 
@JosephWright I heard of the Linux Professional Institute Certification, where you have to answer questions on several topics within a limited time.
 
11:45 AM
@JosephWright Tell them to explain xii.tex. :)
 
12:42 PM
@HenriMenke Why "bad"? TeX is about typesetting. Show your references, you don't need certificates.
 
@HenriMenke Perhaps I should look at this in my blog: would be an interesting topic
@tohecz 'Official' certificates are part and parcel of modern life, particularly 'CPD' or similar ideas
 
@tohecz I'd really prefer your proposal. If I was to hire a TeX consultant, I'd do it this way. But unfortunately the most personnel managers want to see "official" document.
@JosephWright I'm definitely interested in other opinions on this.
 
@HenriMenke Exactly
 
@HenriMenke @Joseph I'm thinking now whether a question "How to convince a HR manager that I'm a TeXpert?" would be suitable for TeX.SX. I've surely seen questions of this kind on Acad.SE and Workplace.SE
There're users here who are TeX consultants, they might have some insight in this
 
@tohecz Hmm, the problem is the old 'opinion-based' thing
 
12:57 PM
@JosephWright: perhaps the biggest problem about TeX certification is: in which levels are we talking? Being the visual appearance the most subjective one. :(
 
@PauloCereda Yes, but the 'serious' art people must have solved this
 
@JosephWright well, the "opinion-based" seems to be very very site-dependent ... :-/
 
@PauloCereda I guess the programming side is in a sense much easier to do
 
@JosephWright :)
@JosephWright Definitely. :)
 
@tohecz Yes
 
12:58 PM
\usepackage{goldenratio}
 
@tohecz My informal experience with this is that as TeX is so specialised people have to rely on recommendation
 
1:10 PM
30
Q: Did SE change its Q&A format to just-another-Internet-forum?

tchristThe “TL;DR” is at the bottom of this posting, which reads: So did SE change its Q&A policy, is Sound Design a failed beta, or are there just different rules there than on all other SE sites? The reason for the question in my title is because of the Sound Design SE site. I looked it over a...

We get a mention (in a comment) :-)
 
1:32 PM
@JosephWright well, of 8 top-voted Qs here, 4 are big-list. Of these, the only bad one IMHO is the "default backages" one
 
@tohecz I'm not worried
@tohecz On the main site our IDE question would almost certainly get closed!
If you read that meta.SO question, what is clear is that the Powers actually do welcome some site variation
 
@JosephWright well, on the main site: Grandma off-topic, Chuthulu unclear, Showcase opinion-based, Editors too broad, CV template unclear/too broad, Default packages opinion-based
 
@tohecz I was just picking up on what I'd say is the 'strongest' of the highly-voted questions
 
@JosephWright now I don't get you
 
@tohecz I think they'd opinion based the editors question
@tohecz Of the top 8 questions, my personal 'favourite' is the IDE one as it really is very useful
 
1:38 PM
@JosephWright oh yeah, quite likely. Or just off-topic in the sense of that "which language should I use" is off-topic
 
@tohecz Could well be
 
@JosephWright yep, that's true, it's a good one
 
Why is everybody writing in bold?
2
 
@tohecz Luckily we don't take the same line
 
in the end: SE = wiki+forum+Q&Asite+blog
 
1:39 PM
I thought my graphics card had a bug. :P
 
@tohecz Yup, that is the plan
 
@PauloCereda what are you talking about, madman? :D
@JosephWright and in this sense, questions are good, as long as they're not too subjective. Listing all LaTeX editors and their features is not subjective itself, default packages are.
 
@tohecz <3
 
@tohecz Yes, I can see that. I guess if we were the main site we'd have a cull of the latter type and then have lots of concerns on meta :-)
 
@JosephWright the problem is that new users tend to post big-list questions thinking "how cool that question would be", not realizing that the question is really bad. It takes a lot of experience (and discussion sometimes) to make a good and useful one.
 
1:52 PM
@tohecz Yes
@tohecz That's partly why the main site has a different approach to main things: lots of new users, lots of low quality or repeated questions, far fewer people to answer (relatively), no real possibility of anyone watching most/all of the questions
 
@JosephWright this is not a problem here (we're "small"), but it is a problem on SO. The world there is just strange
@JosephWright yeah, I was just getting there in my previous comment ;)
 
Last time I asked, the SO mods said they get something like 800 flags per day!
@tohecz :-)
 
btw, anyone knows some more of LilyPond?
 
@tohecz Like I said, the meta post says to me that the Powers do know that one size doesn't fit all
 
2
Q: Define function inside \score in LilyPond

toheczI compile a large song book, and for that I would like to have many local definitions of fuctions, that will, in the end, be in an \include d file, but that makes no difference here. For this, I need to define the functions inside \score{ ... } scope. However, LilyPond keeps throwing errors. The...

@JosephWright yep, gladly. OTOH, it makes it very hard to step in a new site. For that reason, I finally decided to rage-quit Music.SE
 
1:56 PM
@tohecz I visit other sites only rarely, and am very careful to ask questions only if I am sure I've got the tone/approach right
 
@JosephWright well, I've always had the feeling that the question is fine. Still, one of them is at -2, one of them is closed.
 
The "Protected by..." box has been moved to the most bottom of the page but the bounty box remains unchanged. Do you notice it?
 
@StiffJokes Hi! Example?
 
@StiffJokes Looks unchanged to me
 
2:08 PM
@JosephWright Why? Normally it is placed right below the question I think.
 
@StiffJokes That's what I am seeing
 
@JosephWright Or it is a browser-dependent feature. But it does not make sense.
 
@StiffJokes OK, I can see the odd placement in Safari (not logged in)
 
@JosephWright Another question: Up to now I don't really understand why some people protect certain questions rather than protect all questions?
 
@StiffJokes The mechanism is there only to prevent too many 'me too' answers. To be honest I'm not sure it's that useful to us: much more important on the main site where they have lots of new users with low rep and a tendency to post 'junk' answers.
 
2:21 PM
@JosephWright This kind of filter should be more meaningful if enabled by default to all questions I think. Or without this we can still be able to flag such "bad" answers. :-)
This is the end of my question. Thank you.
 
@StiffJokes The problem then would be limiting new users too much
 
@StiffJokes well, protect on our site is more like "Please do not post more answers unless they bring something completely new". It should be used only on question that already have a handful of answers
 
@StiffJokes Ask on meta.SO?
 
@StiffJokes Would F5 change it? It is where it should be with me
 
@tohecz Which browser?
Ah: the position gets 'fixed' for me when I log in in Safari
Probably deliberate: for non-known users the warning is near where they'd post an answer/log in
 
2:31 PM
@JosephWright FF26.0 in Fedora20
 
2:56 PM
Yay, pie!
 
Is GhostScript on-topic here? GhostScript 9.10 is not capable of what previous versions did fluently
 
@tohecz Uh-oh. Fedora 20?
I had problems with F19 and GS, maybe some glibc stuff.
 
@tohecz Probably borderline: is there a strong-ish TeX link?
 
3:18 PM
@PauloCereda well, it "works", but doesn't convert to grayscale with error:
Unable to convert color space to Gray, reverting strategy to LeaveColorUnchanged.
@JosephWright I've always had the feeling, but there probably is not
 
@tohecz Source of the problematic file?
 
@JosephWright LaTeX, obviously
 
@tohecz In that case probably worth a try
 
I was thinking of posting this to the site, but I'll ask here in case the question doesn't make sense. Suppose there is a table, each row associated with a label. Is there some way of compiling the table on-the-fly to include/exclude only certain rows? Conceptually, one might have in an enclosing file, something like - "include only the following rows, using these labels". Similar to SQL's select * from foo where foo not =....
 
@JosephWright well, I'll likely change my workflow. The current one is just ridiculous
@FaheemMitha Have a look at datatool package. It would IMHO make a sense as a Q, as long as you formulate it very clearly: What is the input, what should be the output.
 
3:26 PM
Ok, thanks.
 
brb I need a restart
 
@tohecz Phew.
 
@PauloCereda Stupid, isn't it?
 
Just got a new DLC for Injustice: Gods Among Us. Yay, Zatanna! <3
 
@FaheemMitha Sort of similar question: tex.stackexchange.com/questions/43805/…
 
3:27 PM
@tohecz :)
 
@TorbjørnT. Thanks.
@PauloCereda What is that? A game? Zatanna? Isn't that some DC character?
 
@FaheemMitha It is! :) And you are right, Zatanna is a DC character! :) She's now a playable character in the fighting game. :)
 
@PauloCereda Yes, she is the magic lady. With the top hat.
 
@FaheemMitha Exactly! :)
 
I watch the DC animated films and the DCAU series. Don't read the comics.
The Justice League series some years ago was quite good.
 
3:30 PM
@FaheemMitha hehe :)
 
In datatool, is it customary to edit the data as an ascii file? It seem one can save the database as an LaTeX file too. Does it make sense to edit the latter?
 
@FaheemMitha I would say a lot of us who use it keep the data in an CSV file that is manipulated by Excel.
 
3:45 PM
@AlanMunn That sounds reasonable. Except for the Excel bit. MS = ugh.
Sorry, that should have been MS == ugh. :-)
 
@FaheemMitha Well until someone comes up with a working alternative...
 
@FaheemMitha Better solution for quick crunching?
 
@AlanMunn To Excel? R?
@JosephWright Quick crunching? What kind of crunching?
 
@FaheemMitha Really? Just for quick stuff in the lab?
@FaheemMitha Draw a plot, for example, as you collect up data points
 
@JosephWright Depends what we are talking about, but importing/exporting csv into/from R takes like a few seconds.
 
3:47 PM
@FaheemMitha Same with LaTeX, once set up, but for 'rough cut' work scripts are not the best way
@FaheemMitha I've also heard scary things about R/S
 
@FaheemMitha R doesn't count as quick and dirty, and for doing the kinds of things that Excel is good at, it's not really practical. R does lots of things really well, but it's not a spreadsheet.
 
@JosephWright Ok, well, that gnumeric thing still exists, though I've not given it a thought in years.
 
@AlanMunn Exactly
 
@FaheemMitha Joseph and I are pragmatists. You use the tools that make your work reasonably efficient.
 
@JosephWright R is a sucky sucky language, but for some things it is quite good. Doing db like operations without a db is one of them.
@AlanMunn R is pretty quick and dirty IMO (unless you have large data sets in which case it is a freaking nightmare).
@AlanMunn True, one should use the tools that work for you.
 
3:50 PM
@FaheemMitha I guess this depends on the nature of your work: for me, data sets = files from instruments, almost always exported as CSV or similar and plotable quickly in Excel without being great looking. For fitting lines, I use an Origin knock-off (SciDavis)
 
@JosephWright Ok, I see. Plotting in R is actually pretty fast too. I assume you have not tried it? You could try ggplot2 which is pretty much the hot thing right now. Actually, for a few years now. It has like fanboys.
 
@FaheemMitha The other thing that pisses me off about R is that most of the packages persist in using inscrutable syntax which is totally unnecessary, and unless you use it really often you end up forgetting everything. R package writers should take some lessons from TikZ in terms of user interface.
@FaheemMitha ggplot is one of the culprits.
 
@AlanMunn Yes, R's syntax and documentation is frequently total crap.
@AlanMunn You don't like gpplot2?
 
@FaheemMitha I like ggplot but I resent having to remember what ae means (etc.)
 
The help pages are particularly terrible. They are often just incomprehensible and overly complicated gibberish without even a simple example.
and no explanations.
 
3:53 PM
@FaheemMitha This is the problem of amateur programming by really smart stats nerds.
 
@AlanMunn Yes, I guess the syntax is not really very user-friendly. But I had in mind a case where you are basically doing the same thing over and over with different data, in which case you could automate your script.
It is odd to see someone on tex.sx arguing against scripting, frankly.
@AlanMunn Well, I can't be too critical of Hadley. I did a patch for ggplot2. It took me a month. It's horribly complicated. I'm surprised it even works.
Though he agreed the patch was probably correct, he's ignored it. ggplot2 is not very actively maintained, unfortunately.
 
@FaheemMitha Yes, at that point, R is really great. But neither Joseph nor I were arguing against scripts at all. You were just asking what people use to manipulate their data for use with datatool, and we both use Excel for lots of things like that. For example, I recently organized a conference where all the program, name tags etc. were all done with datatool. The data came from Google docs imported into Excel.
 
@FaheemMitha Depends on the case: for my publications I always use pgfplots and set up the scripts. It's the very quick 'what does this look like' stuff I do in Excel, then I decide whether it's worth the effort to plot properly.
@AlanMunn Yup
I do the UK-TUG membership database in Excel, saving as a CSV. For things like postage labels I use datatool, but adding lines to the CSV by hand would be a bit of a pain.
 
The ggplot2 issue/patch is here, btw.
 
@FaheemMitha One other concern is that much of the experimental data I collect is collected by students, bot graduate and undergraduate, who all have differing skill levels, so Excel is a thing that pretty much everybody can use without too much difficulty, at least for organizing initial results.
 
3:58 PM
@AlanMunn Fair enough.
@AlanMunn What kind of experimental data does a linguist collect?
 
@FaheemMitha Various sorts. Judgments of the acceptability of sentences, eye tracking data of people looking at scenes while they listen to sentences, comprehension experiments with children. Lots of things.
 
ggplot2 is a striking example of software used by lots of people, but is basically unmaintained. Issues piling up like nobody's business, but almost no commit activity.
@AlanMunn I see.
 
@PauloCereda Have you got any ideas how to display GPU usage and PC fan speed?
 
@JosephWright I guess that makes sense.
 
@AlanMunn Sounds about right: I'm trying to train mine up, but it's not so easy
 
4:04 PM
@JosephWright And it sometimes extends into faculty too. I was preparing a budget with a collaborator and they added all the amounts up by hand and entered them into the Excel file...
 
why is the layout wrong?
its geometry with the twoside option
 
@Quonux use \cleardoublepage before \pagenumbering
 
ah thx
 
@JosephWright Actually, why can't one edit the CSV by hand? In fact, isn't it easier with a text editor than with excel?
 
4:24 PM
@FaheemMitha You can edit by hand, but if you miscount the commas life is tricky. Then there is the 'quick sort' issue: I often need an overview of people in some category in a really fast way.
@AlanMunn Oh, certainly. One might though expect younger people to be more computer-competent. My experience suggests this is a false assumption!
 
@tohecz No idea.
 
103
Q: Showcase TeX Typography for TUG's Calendar

Marc van DongenI'm making a calendar. The calendar will be for TUG, 2015. Last year I also made a calendar but because of time constraints most examples were graphics. Since this is a lot of work, I need your help. If you can/want to help out, the following are the requirements for contributions: Your contr...

Shame there were not enough entries
 
... TUG membership renewed :)
 
@JosephWright I would like to contribute to it, but I don't know how.
@tohecz Yay!
 
@tohecz Your own or ...
 
4:34 PM
@JosephWright my own. I was rank 9 last year for SE membership, so I decided to make a personal membership. I simply continue in that :)
 
@JosephWright Mine too.
 
@Joseph, @Alan: my dad is an accountant. Think of the living hell of having him doing financial maths all day long with several books, spreadsheets and drafts. :P
 
@JosephWright I see.
 
@tohecz Ah
 
@JosephWright but it's fine with me, I think that there're others who can use it
 
4:44 PM
@tohecz Yes: I'm hopeful we'll get the corporate membership renewed and I'll be able to get a vote underway soon
 
@PauloCereda My PhD advisor (who is very wealthy (the modern half of the Montreal Museum of Art is named after his parents)) once said to us "Semanticists are like accountants: everyone needs one, but who would want to be one." Of course as poor grad students, I don't think we really got the 'everyone needs an accountant' part. :)
 
@JosephWright well, you might edit the post and announce that if it gets renewed, candidates will be search for
 
@tohecz At the moment it's a case of waiting for something official, then I'll post a new meta thread
Ah, I see we do have something official
OK, new meta thread coming up!
 
5:03 PM
@JosephWright TeX.SX institutional membership in TUG is approved? YAY!
 
0
Q: TUG Membership: Names for 2014

Joseph WrightStackExchange continues to support TUG with corporate membership (many thanks). With that come eight individual memberships, that were given out to some members of the community. The time has come to select our representatives for 2014. Following the model from previous years, I'd like to ask pe...

 
@AlanMunn LOL :)
@JosephWright Yay! :)
 
@JosephWright let's make the "should delete the answer" bold ;)
 
@tohecz It's OK, I'll be getting notified of answers so can keep an eye on it
 
@JosephWright oh yeah, and you can delete them, I got it ;)
 
5:09 PM
@tohecz Exactly
@tohecz We have mods for a reason, you know
Just not the same reason as some of the other network sites
 
5
A: Should we keep our TeX User Group membership?

PopsAs I mentioned to Paulo, I expected this response, but your enthusiasm and speed were a (pleasant) surprise. Consider your membership renewed. And keep up the good work!

 
5:27 PM
@PauloCereda: You have a friend :-)
-4
Q: Why is duck typing not listed in C#'s typing discipline?

CuiPengFeihttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C_Sharp_(programming_language) In this wiki page, static, dynamic, strong, safe, nominative, partially inferred are listed, but duck typing is not. Why is that? class Duck { public String Quack () { return "quack quack"; } } class Hello { pu...

 
@StiffJokes :)
 
J G
5:52 PM
hi does anybody know how to make a pie chart in which i can label the pie pieces/sectors with both the category and percent number without using a legend? That is, I'd like for either the percent or category name to be on the pie the other to be just outiside of it
 
J G
@TorbjørnT. yes that one would be great although I had no idea how to implement it. it did not seem to be a standard package from cpan unless i'm mistaken
 
@JG No, it's not on CTAN. Quick way: download and extract the zip-file, then place pgf-pie.sty in the same folder as your .tex file.
 
J G
6:09 PM
@TorbjørnT. oh ok thanks!
 
6:28 PM
Back from a short tour (by car) to Rovereto, for the exhibition of some paintings by Antonello da Messina.
 
@egreg Yay, welcome back! A pleasant tour?
 
@PauloCereda Snow at Rovereto, traffic jams on the highway. :( Great exhibition.
Who is Antonello da Messina? Here a famous painting by him
 
@egreg ooh!
 
The dimensions of the painting are surprising, considering the level of detail. Unfortunately this was not at the exhibition, it remained at the National Gallery in London.
 
00:00 - 19:0020:00 - 00:00

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