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tohecz
tohecz
5:02 PM
@DavidCarlisle So it would ignore Czech hyphenation patterns?
 
David Carlisle
David Carlisle
@tohecz well if your "tex" is tex as defined by Knuth yes but if it is pdftex as configured by texlive it probably has the same hyphenation patterns as latex anyway, perhaps.
@tohecz But that would be true also if you did what that OP intended and hand wrote tex by expanding out all the latex macros, the patterns are just whatever is in the format so if your plain tex just has american english, that's all there is 
$ tex \\relax \\newlanguage\\zz\\showthe\\zz\\bye
This is TeX, Version 3.1415926 (TeX Live 2012)
\zz=\language1
> 1.
<*> \relax \newlanguage\zz\showthe\zz
                                     \bye
?
No pages of output.
Transcript written on texput.log.

$ pdftex \\relax \\newlanguage\\zz\\showthe\\zz\\bye
This is pdfTeX, Version 3.1415926-2.4-1.40.13 (TeX Live 2012)
 restricted \write18 enabled.
entering extended mode
\zz=\language89
> 89.
<*> \relax \newlanguage\zz\showthe\zz
                                     \bye
@tohecz so tex only has one language but pdftex has 89 in my unmodified TL2012 setup
 
tohecz
tohecz
@DavidCarlisle ok
!!/texdef -t latex -p fancyhdr fancypagestyle
 
Paulo Cereda
Paulo Cereda
Psmith, the TeX bot, in fixed font mode: Here's the output from texdef:

\fancypagestyle:
\long macro:#1#2->\@namedef {ps@#1}{\let \fancy@gbl \relax #2\relax \ps@fancy }
 
Joseph Wright
Joseph Wright
@DavidCarlisle Sounds right: compiling in all of the patterns is not really an issue with an up-to-date system
 
David Carlisle
David Carlisle
@JosephWright whether the numerical association of language to \language number is the same I wouldn't like to guess but if you use babel to ask for Czech you would get the hyphenation of some non english language:-)
 
Joseph Wright
Joseph Wright
5:13 PM
@DavidCarlisle The hyphenation patterns part of babel is used for the plain formats, I think (so the numbers are the same in LaTeX and pdfTeX)
 
David Carlisle
David Carlisle
@JosephWright yes that was my guess but I wouldn't want to stake my life on that being guaranteed:-)
 
Paulo Cereda
Paulo Cereda
!!/answer tell me a joke.
@PauloCereda Psmith, the TeX bot: Q: What's an Abelian group under addition, closed, associative, distributive, and bears a curse? A: The Ring of the Nibelung. :: (according to what passes for mathematical humor (sorry, I only know mathematical jokes), drawn from several sources but primarily from P. Renteln and A. Dundes in their paper "Sampling of Mathematical Folk Humor" in Notices of the American Mathematical Society, vol. 52, pp. 24-34, 2005)
 
Joseph Wright
Joseph Wright
@DavidCarlisle I've read the back-end for this: I am sure it's the same
 
David Carlisle
David Carlisle
@JosephWright OK I'll stake your life on it, that sounds more reasonable.
 
tohecz
tohecz
5:37 PM
Shame on @Paulo! He wasted one vote!
 
Paulo Cereda
Paulo Cereda
@tohecz What did I do?
 
tohecz
tohecz
@PauloCereda you voted only 359x this month, but 40x today
 
Paulo Cereda
Paulo Cereda
@tohecz Some question was deleted, probably.
 
tohecz
tohecz
@PauloCereda yeah, that's possible. However, we can still put a shame on you! :D
 
Joseph Wright
Joseph Wright
Ah, see the edit in the 'convert to TeX' question: 'My boss said ...'
 
Paulo Cereda
Paulo Cereda
5:39 PM
@tohecz I don't know how you guys can vote 41 times. :)
 
tohecz
tohecz
@PauloCereda :D (I would say "<3" but that's protected by you ;) )
 
Paulo Cereda
Paulo Cereda
@tohecz <3
 
Andrew Stacey
Andrew Stacey
What's that package that lets you go on beyond Z with \Alph and friends?
 
tohecz
tohecz
@AndrewStacey alphalph IIRC, gimme a sec
14
Q: Error: Counter too large! with \alph{cntr} and cntr>26

toheczI would like to have \alph{counter} for values larger than 26. The following MnWE gives me the error ! LaTeX Error: Counter too large. \documentclass{article} \begin{document} \begin{enumerate} \def\theenumi{\alph{enumi}} \setcounter{enumi}{24} \item twenty-five \item twenty-six \item twenty-se...

errors numbering counters
 
Andrew Stacey
Andrew Stacey
@tohecz Looks like you ought to know:
(I was just about to post that link, having just found it!)
 
tohecz
tohecz
5:47 PM
@AndrewStacey I thought so, considering the colon at the end of your previous post ;)
 
Andrew Stacey
Andrew Stacey
@tohecz Now you can make a reasonable guess as to why your rep just went up ...
 
tohecz
tohecz
@AndrewStacey it maybe did not, I'm at the repcap today ...
(ok it did, I've got 30 from green ticks)
 
Paulo Cereda
Paulo Cereda
41
Q: How should I deal with an employee sleeping with my wife?

Waiter JohnI'm the owner of a business with about 30-40 employees. Recently, I found out that one of my employees has been having an affair with my wife. The employee has worked for me for 4 years. I felt like I was his mentor, since I recruited straight from university, taught him the ropes, and promoted h...

work-environment relationships
Can I suggest a wtf tag?
 
David Carlisle
David Carlisle
!!/answer How should I deal with an employee sleeping with my wife?
 
Paulo Cereda
Paulo Cereda
@DavidCarlisle Psmith, the TeX bot: I'm sorry, no answers.
 
Joseph Wright
Joseph Wright
5:57 PM
@DavidCarlisle Knuth's idea that plain TeX was a demo and that each user should take their own approach didn't quite work out :-) There are lots of plain TeX users about.
 
tohecz
tohecz
@PauloCereda ... and one thinks his life's fucked ...
 
Paulo Cereda
Paulo Cereda
@tohecz :P
 
egreg
egreg
6:19 PM
!!/eightball Should I fire an employee who sleeps with my wife?
 
Paulo Cereda
Paulo Cereda
@egreg Psmith, the TeX bot: The great 8-ball says: my reply is no.
o.O
!!/eightball Should we kill him? :)
@PauloCereda Psmith, the TeX bot: The great 8-ball says: my sources say no.
o.O
 
egreg
egreg
@PauloCereda I've added an xpatch implementation for your "show bibliography" question.
 
Paulo Cereda
Paulo Cereda
@egreg ooh! Let me check it. :)
 
JLDiaz
JLDiaz
Can I search in TeX SX for the string "\\" ?
 
Paulo Cereda
Paulo Cereda
@egreg Wow! Amazing.
 
JLDiaz
JLDiaz
6:21 PM
I'm trying to find if there is some question about the right (and bad) use of \\
 
egreg
egreg
@JLDiaz I don't know, but probably it would be useless anyway
 
JLDiaz
JLDiaz
@egreg I tried using the search box, but the list of results is always empty
Tried also \\\ and \\\\ just in case there is some "escape char" problem in the parsing of the textbox
 
egreg
egreg
@JLDiaz You'd get tons of false positives: all table related questions, for instance
 
JLDiaz
JLDiaz
@egreg No, the amazing thing is that I get zero positives
@egreg but yeah, you are right in that the search would be useless even if it worked
 
Max
Max
Why not ask your question if you have any @JLDiaz?
 
David Carlisle
David Carlisle
6:51 PM
@JosephWright yes but they are all wrong:-)
 
Peter Grill
Peter Grill
@PauloCereda :-)
@DavidCarlisle: So sad to see that you are now so far away. :-) I'll have to get back into the swing of things to catch up.
 
David Carlisle
David Carlisle
@PeterGrill well if I can pick up another 6k or so we'll be adjacent vertically, if that is any comfort.
 
Peter Grill
Peter Grill
@DavidCarlisle Well that would be preferable as that would be a lot less work for me. :-)
 
tohecz
tohecz
@JLDiaz assuming it uses some standard search technics, no, it cannot. Usually you only index words or alpha-numeric sequences.
 
JLDiaz
JLDiaz
7:07 PM
@tohecz Thanks
@Max I don't have a question, actually. Only was interested in seeing if that kind of question was already asked
 
tohecz
tohecz
@Max I noticed you commented one of the "answers being a comments" saying that the user should have made it a comment. Notice that new users cannot comment on posts, in such case it makes more sense to just flag it ;)
 
Max
Max
ah thank you @tohecz
 
Joseph Wright
Joseph Wright
@petergrill Your comment on tex.stackexchange.com/a/91074/73 won't get to @nicolatalbot as she's not been active in the answer. However, she will see this :-)
 
Peter Grill
Peter Grill
@JosephWright Ahh, good point. I am adding some details to the question in response to your comment.
 
Joseph Wright
Joseph Wright
@PeterGrill I have an idea in mind for an allocation routine which would cover 'release', but I'd be wary of recommending such a thing
 
Paulo Cereda
Paulo Cereda
7:24 PM
@egreg: which one of the two versions do you recommend the use? :) I like both.
Can \PackageError halt an execution?
 
tohecz
tohecz
@PauloCereda yes, if you add the halt command afterwards, it's \@ehc IIRC
 
Paulo Cereda
Paulo Cereda
@tohecz ooh!
 
Peter Grill
Peter Grill
@JosephWright Not sure a general scheme would be required, I think my suggestion might be ok for my needs. Also, have updated the question. Please let me know if that helped or if I should roll back the changes as it just confused the issue?
 
tohecz
tohecz
@tohecz but @JosephWright or @DavidCarlisle may know better
 
Joseph Wright
Joseph Wright
@tohecz That's the 'type H for help' prompt
@PeterGrill Looks OK: it seems what you want is to clear the database, not delete it
 
tohecz
tohecz
7:40 PM
@JosephWright but there's a LaTeX equivalent of \bye isn't there?
 
Joseph Wright
Joseph Wright
@tohecz That's different: you probably are thinking of \stop
 
Paulo Cereda
Paulo Cereda
@JosephWright \hammertime
 
Joseph Wright
Joseph Wright
Or \@@end
 
tohecz
tohecz
@JosephWright I'm not, @Paulo is ;)
 
Paulo Cereda
Paulo Cereda
Oh.
 
Peter Grill
Peter Grill
7:41 PM
@JosephWright Yeah, I did try to clear it but don't think it worked in my actual use case. But did not try it in the MWE...
 
Joseph Wright
Joseph Wright
@PeterGrill I'm not sure datatool has a command to 'reset' a database: one for @nicolatalbot :-)
 
Peter Grill
Peter Grill
Oh, now I remember. Since the DB is being read from a file, it needed to be deleted before a subsequent read could be done.
 
Paulo Cereda
Paulo Cereda
I'm getting the idea of this LaTeX thingy.
@JosephWright: \stop works. :)
 
tohecz
tohecz
@PauloCereda ok, good to know
now, I gotta go, 8.45pm and still at work, I'll be at home around 9.30
 
kan
kan
Does someone know a way of getting emacs 24 on ubuntu?
OK installing from a PPA...
 
Paulo Cereda
Paulo Cereda
7:53 PM
apt-get install vim
 
kan
kan
@PauloCereda installs something which will ensure David not talking to you....
And, I don't want that.
 
Paulo Cereda
Paulo Cereda
@kan David has a new year's resolution, and I think he said he was going to be more tolerant towards vim users. :)
!!/cricket 
Psmith, the TeX bot, in fixed font mode: Let's take a look at the last cricket results:

- Jharkhand 401/10  v Punjab 435/3 *
- Saurashtra 469/10 &  463/3 * v Karnataka 396/10
- Mumbai 645/9 &  171/1 * v Baroda 271/10
- Central Zone (Bangladesh) 528/4 * v East Zone (Bangladesh)
- South Zone (Bangladesh) 205/10  v North Zone (Bangladesh) 291/10 &  125/3 *
- Matabeleland Tuskers 161/3 * v Mashonaland Eagles 157/10
- Mountaineers 200/3 * v Mid West Rhinos 225/6
- Jamaica v Windward Islands
- Leeward Islands v Trinidad & Tobago
Where's England in the list?
No game today?
 
kan
kan
@PauloCereda Hmm, but, I can now work with emacs comfortably...
@PauloCereda I think so...
 
Paulo Cereda
Paulo Cereda
Names for a bibliography log parser? :)
I was thinking of cupcake. Is it too American?
Perhaps muffin. :)
Or tiramisu. :)
 
Stefan Kottwitz
Stefan Kottwitz
@PauloCereda bibliography_log_parser.lua :-)
 
Paulo Cereda
Paulo Cereda
8:00 PM
@StefanKottwitz shhh this will be dandelion. :)
In Lua! :)
 
Stefan Kottwitz
Stefan Kottwitz
@PauloCereda dante lion?
 
Paulo Cereda
Paulo Cereda
@StefanKottwitz Dandelion in Portuguese is translated as "dente-de-leão", which means "lion's tooth". :)
From old French dent-de-lioun. :)
 
Stefan Kottwitz
Stefan Kottwitz
Ok :-)
 
Paulo Cereda
Paulo Cereda
@StefanKottwitz How are the preparations for the arrival of the newest member of the Kottwitz family? :)
 
Stefan Kottwitz
Stefan Kottwitz
Oh, this? Nearly forgot. Just fiddled around with JavaScript and PHP.
3 weeks left I guess. I hope.
 
Paulo Cereda
Paulo Cereda
8:04 PM
Dad Stefan. :)
 
Stefan Kottwitz
Stefan Kottwitz
DoubleDad :-)
 
Paulo Cereda
Paulo Cereda
dad++ :)
 
Stefan Kottwitz
Stefan Kottwitz
\refstepcounter{children}
11
@PauloCereda My first daughter can already compile and preview LaTeX.
 
Paulo Cereda
Paulo Cereda
@StefanKottwitz o.O
Oh my!
You already gave her a pair of RSA keys and a ssh account, right? :)
 
Stefan Kottwitz
Stefan Kottwitz
@PauloCereda I implemented a one-touch compile&preview (announced today on LaTeX-Community.org), which she easily handles on my iPad :-)
 
Paulo Cereda
Paulo Cereda
8:14 PM
@StefanKottwitz How nice! :)
You could add arara support for more complex workflows. :P
 
Stefan Kottwitz
Stefan Kottwitz
She always fights hard to get my iPad and my glasses
@PauloCereda We already spoke about supporting arara
 
Paulo Cereda
Paulo Cereda
@StefanKottwitz Oh my! <3
 
Stefan Kottwitz
Stefan Kottwitz
arara is a great addition for one-click compiling
 
Paulo Cereda
Paulo Cereda
@StefanKottwitz Now I feel guilty to finish the manual. :)
 
Stefan Kottwitz
Stefan Kottwitz
@PauloCereda hurry up >:-)
 
David Carlisle
David Carlisle
8:26 PM
@PauloCereda I show vim users all the respect they deserve
 
kan
kan
@DavidCarlisle "they deserve"... but their desires might be... :P
 
David Carlisle
David Carlisle
@PauloCereda halt execution, you mean more than stop with an error message? for that you need \stop or more drastic \@@end
 
Paulo Cereda
Paulo Cereda
@DavidCarlisle I tried with \stop, it works. :)
 
David Carlisle
David Carlisle
@PauloCereda \stop does a \clearpage first to have a chance to flush out the current page and any pending floats, \@@end just stops
 
Paulo Cereda
Paulo Cereda
@DavidCarlisle ooh \@@end is more violent, I like it. :)
 
David Carlisle
David Carlisle
8:32 PM
!//texdef -t latex \stop
 
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
Can someone suggest a better way to write this eqn?
\begin{align}\label{prob}
P(S=s_i) = p_i \quad\quad \text{for}\; i\in\{1,\dots,k\}
\end{align}
I don't think my spacing is optimal.
 
Paulo Cereda
Paulo Cereda
@DavidCarlisle Two exclamation points. :)
 
kan
kan
\begin{align}\label{prob}
P(S=s_i) = p_i \text{ for } i\in\{1,\dots,k\}
\end{align}
 
Joseph Wright
Joseph Wright
@PauloCereda It's the TeX \end primitive
 
Stefan Kottwitz
Stefan Kottwitz
!//texdef -t latex \stop!!
 
Paulo Cereda
Paulo Cereda
8:35 PM
@JosephWright Ah.
 
kan
kan
@FaheemMitha How about just that? ^^ :)
 
Joseph Wright
Joseph Wright
@StefanKottwitz :-)
 
Paulo Cereda
Paulo Cereda
!!/texdef -t latex \stop
 
David Carlisle
David Carlisle
align isn't doing anything if you are not aligning
 
Paulo Cereda
Paulo Cereda
Hey why my bot isn't working?!
 
Joseph Wright
Joseph Wright
8:36 PM
@PauloCereda Fatal DOS error!
 
Paulo Cereda
Paulo Cereda
@JosephWright LOL
!!/texdef -t latex \stop 
Psmith, the TeX bot, in fixed font mode: Here's the output from texdef:

\stop:
macro:->\clearpage \deadcycles \z@ \let \par \@@par \@@end
Phew.
 
Stefan Kottwitz
Stefan Kottwitz
@PauloCereda Would more exclamation points help? Some people think, it would help with humans.
 
Paulo Cereda
Paulo Cereda
Ah David was right. :)
@StefanKottwitz Sometimes it doesn't. Try :help! in vim. :)
 
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
@kan Thanks.
 
David Carlisle
David Carlisle
@PauloCereda I just read it from my EMACS!! buffer!!
 
Paulo Cereda
Paulo Cereda
8:37 PM
@DavidCarlisle look at teh caps. :)
 
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
@kan Dunno. Shouldn't there be a bit of a space between p_i and for?
 
Stefan Kottwitz
Stefan Kottwitz
@PauloCereda :help!! actually works.
 
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
I'm not sure what good math style is, here.
 
Paulo Cereda
Paulo Cereda
@StefanKottwitz In case we are in a hurry. :)
 
kan
kan
@FaheemMitha I am OK with the spacing as it is, but, other chat regulars might have comments. If you feel, you need to space a little more: just add \, before the \text{ but no more...
 
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
8:42 PM
@kan Ah. So a \quad is contraindicated?
 
egreg
egreg
@PauloCereda The second one is trickier, but perhaps neater.
 
kan
kan
@FaheemMitha Well, \quad\quad surely a NO. :)
 
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
@kan Ok.
 
Paulo Cereda
Paulo Cereda
@egreg Agreed. :)
 
egreg
egreg
@PauloCereda A possible weakness is that it depends on the fact that \printbibliography calls \blx@printbibliography, which could change.
@PauloCereda Second half starting.
 
David Carlisle
David Carlisle
8:46 PM
@kan what have you got against two quads (it is used sufficiently often that plain and latex define \qquad shorthand for that space)
 
kan
kan
@DavidCarlisle But, this case is certainly not one of them, it is a LOT of space.
 
David Carlisle
David Carlisle
@kan possibly true (I haven't actually looked at the typeset version:-)
 
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
It's really a style issue.
@kan I see you are in bangalore. What institution?
 
kan
kan
@FaheemMitha Indian Statistical Institute. :)
 
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
@kan Oh. I thought that was in Calcutta. Also, I thought they did statistics, not math.
 
Joseph Wright
Joseph Wright
8:52 PM
@FaheemMitha Oh Little Town of Bangalore :-)
 
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
@JosephWright Huh?
 
kan
kan
 
Joseph Wright
Joseph Wright
 
kan
kan
@David ^^
 
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
@kan I take it you recommend no 2?
 
kan
kan
8:55 PM
@FaheemMitha First up, ISI is at Kolkata, Bangalore, Delhi, Chennai and Tezpur. They do Mathematics at Kolkata, Bangalore, Delhi, Chennai.
@FaheemMitha Yes.
 
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
@kan Ah. I'm out of date.
@kan Which was the one you suggested, right?
@JosephWright There was a song by Peter Sellers called goodness gracious me. Probably no relation.
 
tohecz
tohecz
@FaheemMitha I second that. As well, I would sligtly tighten the inner =
 
kan
kan
@FaheemMitha Actually, (1) looks perfectly fine, but (2) is good too.
 
tohecz
tohecz
You can do:
P(S \mkern2mu = \mkern2mu s_i) = p_i \; \text{for $i\in\{1,\dots,k\}}
@StefanKottwitz maybe better \stepcounter{children}, in case there were any grand-children, \refstepcounter could be catastrophic ;)
 
Joseph Wright
Joseph Wright
0
Q: Different rendering between Texlive and Miktex?

Lionel MANSUYI'm working both with Texlive on Linux and Miktex on Windows. I though that both system were equivalent, but I have some tex files that produce underfull hboxes on one system and not on the other. Is it normal? I though that a Tex file would produce the same output everywhere... Is there a mean ...

texlive miktex rendering
This has come up before: last time we got no info on the file versions, etc.
 
tohecz
tohecz
9:00 PM
@JosephWright from the same user?
 
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
@tohecz Doesn't compile for me.
 
Joseph Wright
Joseph Wright
@tohecz No, I don't think so: I meant more the 'TeX Live and MiKTeX give different results' issue, but without any real detail
 
kan
kan
@FaheemMitha $P(S \mkern2mu = \mkern2mu s_i) = p_i \; \text{for $i\in\{1,\dots,k\}$}$
 
Stefan Kottwitz
Stefan Kottwitz
@tohecz For now I need to be able to reference. There's a lot of time until the doom of a catastrophe. (Well, if I would need \addcounter{children}{3} instead, then ...)
 
tohecz
tohecz
@kan that's wrong as well as I found 
P(S \mkern2mu {=} \mkern2mu s_i) = p_i \; \text{for $i\in\{1,\dots,k\}$}
 
Stefan Kottwitz
Stefan Kottwitz
9:03 PM
Don't know if 1 or 4 or boy or girl :-)
 
tohecz
tohecz
^^ This is correct, @FaheemMitha (I forgot a $ there, and I forgot to group the {=} to suppress its "mathrel" spacing)
@StefanKottwitz well, congrats btw!
 
Stefan Kottwitz
Stefan Kottwitz
@tohecz Thanks! Doc and midwife say, all is ok, so I look forward to the event
the last one happened in my bedroom just some days before the TUG meeting
 
tohecz
tohecz
@StefanKottwitz it's yet to be expected?
 
Stefan Kottwitz
Stefan Kottwitz
I managed to visit both :-)
@tohecz yes, about 3-4 weeks left, possibly
 
tohecz
tohecz
@StefanKottwitz ok, I cross my fingers for you then ;)
 
Stefan Kottwitz
Stefan Kottwitz
9:07 PM
@tohecz My boss crosses the fingers too! Specifically, that it will take its time, because we would like to finish a cruise ship building before.
We are building:
 
Werner
Werner
@FaheemMitha Look at the spacing between using \ldots, \dots and \dotsc (since you're using amsmath already).
 
tohecz
tohecz
@StefanKottwitz now call that a pragmatic reasoning :D
@StefanKottwitz it is not a real cruise ship, is it?
 
Stefan Kottwitz
Stefan Kottwitz
@tohecz He knows that I will stay at home after the baby arrived
 
tohecz
tohecz
btw:
0
Q: Symbols "degrees" and "degrees centigrate": proper spacing

toheczFor mathematical and physical units, usually there is a thin space between the number and the unit, in the LaTeX syntax for example $1008\,\mathrm{kPa}$. However, I feel that angular degrees (e.g. $90°$) and temperature degrees (e.g. $-2°\mathrm{C}$) should be typeset without a space. What is t...

typography white-space
 
Joseph Wright
Joseph Wright
@tohecz Your feeling is half-right
 
tohecz
tohecz
9:10 PM
@StefanKottwitz you will?
 
Stefan Kottwitz
Stefan Kottwitz
@tohecz It's a real cruise ship and the 10th of the fleet
 
tohecz
tohecz
@StefanKottwitz I didn't get it, you mean it's 1:10 model?
 
Stefan Kottwitz
Stefan Kottwitz
@tohecz At first a vacation, than working from home, to be able to support the family
 
Joseph Wright
Joseph Wright
@tohecz All physical units should be typeset in the same way, with a space between the number and the unit. Conventionally this is a thin space. However, degrees of a plane angle should be given with no space added.
 
tohecz
tohecz
@JosephWright you can get some rep there if you want
@StefanKottwitz nice!
 
Stefan Kottwitz
Stefan Kottwitz
9:11 PM
@tohecz It's no model, it's a real one
 
Joseph Wright
Joseph Wright
@tohecz It's not really a graphic design answer
 
tohecz
tohecz
@JosephWright To quote Area51: "Typography is closed as a duplicate of Graphic Design"
 
Joseph Wright
Joseph Wright
@tohecz Yes, but it's more about scientific conventions. See physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/checklist.html, #15
 
tohecz
tohecz
@StefanKottwitz damn, are you the person that has at home larger servers than google?
 
David Carlisle
David Carlisle
AIDA Cruises
AIDA Cruises is a British-American owned German cruise line based in Rostock, Germany. Originally founded as Deutsche Seereederei with a ship called Völkerfreundschaft ("Friendship Between Peoples"), the company entered the cruise industry in the 1960s and was later acquired by P&O Princess Cruises in 2000. In 2003, P&O Princess merged with Carnival Corporation, to form Carnival Corporation & plc, the worlds largest cruise holiday company. Following the merger, executive control of AIDA Cruises transferred to Costa Cruises Group, one of the main operating companies of the Carnival Group,...
 
Stefan Kottwitz
Stefan Kottwitz
9:13 PM
Number 11 and 12 will be built in Japan (in a yard of Mitsubishi Heavy Industries), I should see if I could connect it with TUG 2013 in Japan :-)
 
Joseph Wright
Joseph Wright
@StefanKottwitz Ah
@tohecz You write a LaTeX package to deal with units, you learn a lot about typesetting units!
 
tohecz
tohecz
@JosephWright there's a thin-if-any boundary between "writing conventions" and "typography"
 
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
@Werner Ok.
 
Joseph Wright
Joseph Wright
@tohecz I'd say writing conventions are editorial rules, while typography is about history and artistic judgement, which I certainty do not have!
 
Stefan Kottwitz
Stefan Kottwitz
@tohecz Oh no, just one rack plus some equipment which did not fit any more. Need a second one.
 
tohecz
tohecz
9:15 PM
@StefanKottwitz now you tell me that you're a professional pilot as well and I collapse.
 
Joseph Wright
Joseph Wright
@StefanKottwitz I think you are the only person I know with a rack in their home
 
Stefan Kottwitz
Stefan Kottwitz
@tohecz A ship's officer for some years, but not a pilot :-)
 
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
@kan Thanks
 
Stefan Kottwitz
Stefan Kottwitz
@JosephWright My girlfriend cannot complain, since it's in my 2nd home in the other city where I work :-)
 
tohecz
tohecz
@StefanKottwitz damn
 
Joseph Wright
Joseph Wright
9:20 PM
@StefanKottwitz Ah, right
 
kan
kan
@FaheemMitha No worries, but, apparently tohecz had intended sth slightly different.
 
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
@kan No biggie.
 
tohecz
tohecz
19 mins ago, by tohecz 
P(S \mkern2mu {=} \mkern2mu s_i) = p_i \; \text{for $i\in\{1,\dots,k\}$}
 
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
@tohecz Thanks
@tohecz Thanks
@kan So, what kind of math do you do?
 
kan
kan
@FaheemMitha I am still an undergraduate student, so, nothing specific yet. But, these days, I think about combinatorial problems, but, this is very likely to change.
 
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
9:26 PM
@kan Oh, I didn't know ISI has an undergrad program. I must be really out of date.
 
tohecz
tohecz
@barbarabeeton thanks
 
kan
kan
@FaheemMitha Yes, but, Kolkata has had Undergrads for quite some time, let's say 25 to 30 years. In Bangalore, it is a relatively new venture: just stepping into 11th year.
 
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
@kan Ok. I thought of ISI as a research institute, like TIFR.
TIFR has some sort of grad program, but not undergrad.
I think they recently got permission to grant their own degrees too.
 
kan
kan
@FaheemMitha Who - ISI, you mean?
 
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
@kan No, the last sentence referred to TIFR
 
kan
kan
9:30 PM
@FaheemMitha It was, but not any more.
 
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
They used to grant Bombay University degrees
@kan Ok. So they are more like a regular university now?
 
kan
kan
@FaheemMitha Oh, I am not sure but, this is certainly a possibility.
@FaheemMitha No! As an institute, their research output is much more than university can claim, but, they teach very little people and all...
 
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
@kan And how is Bangalore like these days?
@kan Ok. So still more of a research institute then.
 
kan
kan
@FaheemMitha In terms of climate?
@FaheemMitha yes. :)
 
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
@kan Generally. As a place to live. I hear it has been deteriorating.
 
kan
kan
9:35 PM
@FaheemMitha Cannot disagree, but again, I am at the Hostel in the institute, beautifully maintained. Very nice environment.
 
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
@kan That's good.
@kan I expect they do that whole Indian segregation of the sexes thing, though.
Very weird.
 
kan
kan
@FaheemMitha They do.
@FaheemMitha Not so much, given what's happening in India.
Pick any newspaper, there is a place right in your city, where a girl was molested.
Not saying this would happen at ISI, but it potentially could.
 
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
@kan So I hear.
You think that is a solution, though?
 
kan
kan
@FaheemMitha No, but, atleast, it makes it a tiny bit of time to pause and think.
 
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
@kan Hmm.
 
kan
kan
9:48 PM
Weird: can someone help me sort a Ubuntu (but also mildly emacsish) problem?
 
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
@kan I use Debian. Is it a TeX problem?
 
kan
kan
No, but, I installed AuCTeX from inside emacs 24 but, I have no clue why aptitude search cannot find it.
@FaheemMitha ^
 
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
@kan aptitude only knows about debian packages
not sure what you mean by installed from inside emacs
why not just use the debian package?
which is a bit crap, agreed
the maintainer is kinda useless.
he just ignores bug reports
 
kan
kan
Well, what I mean is: M-x list-packages and installed AuCTeX by looking for it there...
 
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
@kan What command did you use to install?
 
kan
kan
9:52 PM
@FaheemMitha When I try to do this, it brings in all the emacs23 stuff.
@FaheemMitha used the GUI... sorry about that.
 
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
@kan Oh, I see.
@kan If it is installed then dpkg -l auctex should show it
 
kan
kan
My bad! 
| Status=Not/Inst/Conf-files/Unpacked/halF-conf/Half-inst/trig-aWait/Trig-pend
|/ Err?=(none)/Reinst-required (Status,Err: uppercase=bad)
||/ Name           Version        Description
+++-==============-==============-============================================
un  auctex         <none>         (no description available)
 
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
@kan You could install 11.87-1.
That depends on emacs 24
 
kan
kan
@FaheemMitha How would I do it? :)
@FaheemMitha I am using emacs24.
 
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
apt-cache show auctex=11.87-1
@kan Debian package?
 
kan
kan
9:56 PM
@FaheemMitha From the PPA, so yes?
 
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
@kan Oh, I forgot that you are using Ubuntu
What does apt-cache policy auctex show?
Check the dependencies for 11.87-1
It's probably available
 
kan
kan
auctex:
  Installed: (none)
  Candidate: 11.86-2ubuntu1
  Version table:
     11.86-2ubuntu1 0
        500 in.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu precise/main amd64 Packages
 
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
Hmm, maybe not
You could try installing the Debian one. It will probably work. Check the dependencies first, perhaps
 
kan
kan
@FaheemMitha this reported error. So, 11.86-1 is not there...?
 
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
@kan What gave an error?
@kan Looks like you installed it outside the package system. In general, not such a great idea.
 
kan
kan
10:00 PM
apt-cache show auctex=11.87-1
@FaheemMitha Sorry, I would not do it, ever, hereafter, unless, of course, I know what I am doing.
 
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
@kan Right. I don't think Ubuntu has it. Like I said, you could try the Debian package. I've installed Ubuntu packages, before now, with no problem
 
kan
kan
@FaheemMitha So, how would I do it please?
 
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
Follow the links
See the download link at the bottom
Off to bed now.
It would not be a bad idea to recompile the sources on your machine, if you know how to do that.
 
kan
kan
I'll let you know when done.
 
Werner
Werner
10:16 PM
I surely hope my comment didn't scare away a new visitor...
(10K users only)
I wanted to comment still, but the question was removed before I could respond.
 
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
@kan If you are installing the Debian package, don't forget to uninstall the local version, if you did install it.
 
kan
kan
@FaheemMitha OK. But, INSTALL thingy in the tar release says, if I installed from the Emacs package manager, things should be fine.
So, I am still experimenting.l
 
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
@kan Well, you don't want to mix and match package managers if possible.
 
egreg
egreg
@StefanKottwitz Happy news!
 
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
Sometimes it is unavoidable, but if so, you should know about potential problems if any.
 
kan
kan
10:29 PM
@FaheemMitha Yeah, but can you please do me a favour? I'd be glad if you tell me the hierachy of your .emacs.d directory?
(Sorry, but it is your bed time too. :(
 
Nicola Talbot
Nicola Talbot
10:59 PM
@JosephWright Yes, there's \DTLcleardb which just empties the database but keeps it defined.
 
egreg
egreg
@NicolaTalbot Is it really necessary to allocate two token registers and two counters for each database? If the computations are performed in a group you'd need only two for each kind.
 
Nicola Talbot
Nicola Talbot
@AndrewStacey Yes, that's true but I use \frame out of habit as I use it for debugging non-tikz code (unless I'm using beamer)
@egreg Er, don't know at the moment. My brain's a bit foggy. I'll think about it when I'm awake ;-)
 
egreg
egreg
@NicolaTalbot Just a thought. I don't know how you use those registers.
 
Nicola Talbot
Nicola Talbot
@egreg One stores the contents of the database, the other stores the header info.
(A clever idea devised by Morten H\o gholm. He helped me redesign the internal working of datatool.)
I'm heading off to bed now. Night all.
 
David Carlisle
David Carlisle
> \meaning@=macro:
->\show.
\bm@mchar@test ...ing@ {#1}\show 8\show \meaning@
\ifx \meaning@ \bm@mchar@ ...
l.35 $\bm{\alpha}
$
! TeX capacity exceeded, sorry [input stack size=5000].
\bm@command ->
\XeTeXmathcharnum 16897788 \show \GenericWarning {\space \spac...
l.35 $\bm{\alpha}
$
108713 words of node memory still in use:
99 hlist, 15 vlist, 11 rule, 5 disc, 5 math, 90 glue, 40 kern, 38 penalty, 1
64 glyph, 154 attribute, 90 glue_spec, 93 attribute_list, 2 temp, 52450 if_stac
k, 1 write, 6 local_par, 2 dir nodes
 
egreg
egreg
11:07 PM
@NicolaTalbot One might think of allocating 50 registers of each kind or maybe a higher number specified as package option and do a "package allocation of these", so that you'd manage only those allocated by the package, making it possible to really free them. But it's not easy.
@DavidCarlisle That's really scaring.
 
David Carlisle
David Carlisle
@egreg good, I only posted it so that I could share out the pain
@egreg It's amazing how xetex and luatex manage to be different in almost every respect when it comes to unicode math fonts, given that they do (or in this case try to do) the same thing from the same input
 
egreg
egreg
@DavidCarlisle :(
 
David Carlisle
David Carlisle
Ive just about got bm working now in xetex but luatex....
 
kan
kan
@emacsfriends: Can you guys help me with this thing:
 
David Carlisle
David Carlisle
@PauloCereda @kan needs you ^^^^^
 
kan
kan
11:13 PM
This option is used for specifying a TDS-compliant directory
     hierarchy.  Using `--with-texmf-dir=/DIR' you can specify where
     the TeX TDS directory hierarchy resides, and the TeX files will
     get installed in `/DIR/tex/latex/preview/'.

     If you use the `--without-texmf-dir' option, the TeX-related files
     will be kept in the Emacs Lisp tree, and at runtime the
     `TEXINPUTS' environment variable will be made to point there.  You
     can install those files into your own TeX tree at some later time
What should I set this variable to in installing auctex?
 
David Carlisle
David Carlisle
@kan well anywhere really I assume, simplest initially would be the option in the second para so it keeps the files with emacs
 
kan
kan
@DavidCarlisle OK, installed AuCTeX. Thank You for the tip.
 
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
orwell:/home/faheem/.emacs.d# ls -laR
.:
total 176
drwxr-xr-x 3 faheem faheem 4096 Dec 14 02:14 .
drwxr-xr-x 384 faheem faheem 126976 Jan 10 03:58 ..
-rw-r--r-- 1 faheem faheem 4808 Mar 24 2011 abbrev_defs
drwxr-xr-x 2 faheem faheem 12288 Jan 10 00:01 auto-save-list
-rw-r--r-- 1 faheem faheem 16823 Jun 18 2011 edit-server.el
-rw-r--r-- 1 faheem faheem 174 Dec 14 02:14 tramp
 
kan
kan
@FaheemMitha so, you don't keep your .emacs file here?
 
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
@kan No
 
kan
kan
11:24 PM
Ooooh!
Well, I am close, or so I believe.
error: Required feature auctex' was not provided`
So, now the problem with init file.
@FaheemMitha Thank you BTW!
@Faheem Your pointers were very helpful.
 
Paulo Cereda
Paulo Cereda
@egreg: Go Juve! :)
 
egreg
egreg
@PauloCereda Yes. It could have been shorter. :)
 
Paulo Cereda
Paulo Cereda
@egreg Indeed. But we do like some action and drama, don't we? :)
 
David Carlisle
David Carlisle
!!/answer did Juventus win today?
 
Paulo Cereda
Paulo Cereda
@DavidCarlisle Psmith, the TeX bot: I'm sorry, no answers.
!!/calcio
@PauloCereda Psmith, the TeX bot: I'm deeply sorry, old chap, but the command calcio does not exist.
Oops, I need to implement that.
 
kan
kan
11:33 PM
OK, Emacs 24 installed!!!
 
Paulo Cereda
Paulo Cereda
Boo!
<3
 
kan
kan
Thank you @Faheem and @David for the help.
 
tohecz
tohecz
11:47 PM
Not to offend anybody, but it has happened to me twice today that my edit was "more substantial" than the edit by someone else, yet the F#$%ed SE engine didn't allow me to submit my edit.
 
egreg
egreg
@tohecz Concurrent edits, I suspect.
 
tohecz
tohecz
yes, they are. But I'd even read the new versions to see that I "edited better" (don't want to sound strong). Still, the engine refused me to submit. I had to copy the code, cancel the edit, hit edit again, paste the code, and perform the tag changes again -- pretty annoying.
 
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