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00:00 - 21:0021:00 - 00:00

12:05 AM
Thanks to both of you for the help. This is the problem with TikZ: there always seems to be 100 different ways to do the same thing. Not to mention little details like adding [yshift=...] inside a coordinate, which I never knew about.
 
@AlanMunn I can relate to that. That's what I feel about pgfplots and usually I know none of those 100 :)
 
12:24 AM
@percusse That's why picture mode wins the green tick:-)
7
A: Drawing a political spectrum

David Carlisle \documentclass{article} \usepackage{graphics} \begin{document} \fbox{\begin{picture}(200,200) \thicklines \put(100,10){\line(0,1){180}} \put(10,100){\line(1,0){180}} \put(100,190){\makebox(0,0)[b]{\textsc{TiKZ}}} \put(100,10){\makebox(0,0)[t]{\textsc{PsTricks}}} \put(10,100){\makebox(0,0)[r]...

 
@DavidCarlisle You have 1 dimension more than needed. It should be a line between nice and terrible and we know what goes where.
 
@percusse It had to fit the question layout:-)
 
@DavidCarlisle TikZ is bad in 3D projection so you can add that comment :)
 
@percusse Yes picture mode isn't brilliant at projections either....
 
@DavidCarlisle Nobody would need to know that
 
 
4 hours later…
4:11 AM
Where can I find the following vector graphics file?
I want to create my own t-shirt with this logo.
The embroidery machine needs such a file.
 
4:23 AM
@GarbageCollector You might try asking this as a question on Meta. The original logo was decided there and more people who might know read it. @@Jin (tex.stackexchange.com/users/3/jin) should have the logo for sure, and he does read meta sometimes (probably depending on the tags).
 
@PauloCereda Let’s talk about TeX, Baby Paulo: It’s sooo cold there, it surely will be freezed in some hours …
 
 
6 hours later…
10:04 AM
@PauloCereda Up to a degree this is true, but a good theoretical beckground helps a lot. You tend to think first about problem complexity and abstraced concepts for data and algorithms. Actually implementing the stuff is then like working with a blueprint.
 
@StephanLehmke Ah yes. :) Sadly, people usually prefer to get their hands dirty on the code itself insted of the concepts first. :)
@Stephan: I once suggested to a friend to model a problem in terms of a computable function. She gave me the famous puzzled look. :)
 
10:29 AM
@PauloCereda I wasn't thinking so much about actually writing down a complete mathematical model on paper. But even in everyday programming you usually first think the problem at hand through on the abstract level, then write down the code.
@PauloCereda I can relate to that ;-)
 
11:09 AM
@StephanLehmke Ah yes. :)
 
11:35 AM
Everyone ready for Answer the Unanswered?
 
@JosephWright Sir, yes sir! :)
 
@PauloCereda Why haven't you put your name forward yet for a TUG slot? :-)
 
@JosephWright Not before 21:30 UTC for me: Juventus is playing tonight. ;-)
 
@egreg OK
 
@JosephWright /blushes thanks for suggesting me. :) I think we have some members that really deserve the indication, and I'd be glad to not nominate myself in favour of a greater good, that is, our community. :)
@egreg One eye on the TV, and the other on the chat. :)
 
11:43 AM
@PauloCereda Impossible. The TV is in another room.
 
@egreg Oh. :( No chance of going wireless?
 
@PauloCereda I might use the wireless, but there are priorities: Ubi maior,…
 
@egreg minor cessat. :) Got it. :)
 
12:01 PM
@JosephWright: speaking of TUG, as soon as I finish the manual for v3, I'll try to write an article about arara for the TUGBoat and Ars TeXnica (Karl also suggested me to write an article about my songbook project). Perhaps one for Baskerville too?
 
@PauloCereda has there been a baskerville in recent years?
 
@DavidCarlisle You can tell me. :)
 
@PauloCereda well unless they threw me off the mailing list. (I can't remember the last time I saw one:-)
 
@DavidCarlisle Not recently, no
 
@PauloCereda @PauloCereda If the articles for TUGboat and ArsTeXnica are similar, the latter might be translated into Italian.
 
12:09 PM
@DavidCarlisle Last one a couple of years ago
 
@JosephWright was it? (I'd have guessed 10:-)
 
@egreg ooh! :)
 
@DavidCarlisle Yes, we had a guy called Jonathan Webley who was keen to restart it, but getting content proved difficult and he had other things to do
 
@JosephWright yes the one time I was "guest editor" I had to write half the articles under my name and ghost write the other articles in order to get enough content to make an issue:(
 
@DavidCarlisle We only had him and me to do the writing
Content in English goes to TUGBoat
 
12:19 PM
@JosephWright Their editorial board must be huge.
 
@PauloCereda Karl and Barbara, I think
 
@JosephWright ah. :)
@JosephWright: on the TUG matter, if there'll be an open slot until the deadline, I'll nominate myself. :)
Meanwhile, I'll wait. :)
 
 
1 hour later…
1:39 PM
@JosephWright: how about pinging the current users to see if they want to keep their membership? I think they should have priority of claiming the slots. :)
 
1:54 PM
@egreg: Confederations cup: what a group we have! Brazil, Japan, Mexico and Italy! :)
 
@PauloCereda Not bad. When will it be?
 
@egreg Next year. :) I'll take a look on the dates. :)
Adriana Lima is talking now. <3
@egreg: 15 to 30 June.
22 June: Brazil vs. Italy. :)
 
@PauloCereda So we shall be on opposite sides that day!
 
@egreg Avanti Azzurra! :)
 
@AlanMunn OK. Thanks.
 
2:15 PM
@egreg: I'm sure all Palmeiras tifosi will be cheering for Italy. :)
 
 
2 hours later…
3:51 PM
@PauloCereda I suspect most of them have already seen it (certainly @StefanKottwitz and @Caramdir have!)
To be on the safe side @MartinScharrer, @lockstep, @topskip, @AndrewStacey, @AlanMunn, @ℝaphink: the call for sponsored TUG members for 2013 is open (meta.tex.stackexchange.com/questions/2906/…), so don't forget to add you name if you want to continue as one of our 'representatives'
 
@PauloCereda Please nominate now. I'll certainly vote for you. The basic idea of the "election" is that not you get to decide who will get a subscription, but "the community". :-)
 
@StephanLehmke Well, the community gets to decide from those people who come forward :-)
 
@JosephWright That's the point. So anybody who knows he'd have chances to be "elected" but doesn't nominate, is in some sense taking "democracy" in their own hands... ;-)
 
@StephanLehmke I suspect we may be looking at a 'reverse election' again: 'don't vote for me, vote for everyone else!' :-)
 
@JosephWright LOL
 
4:06 PM
What is worth noting is that we do want a 'full house' of eight takers. StackExchange are paying $500 for the privilege of being an institutional member, so it's important that full advantage is taken.
 
4:18 PM
@JosephWright You do want, I assume...
 
@StephanLehmke Fixed ;-)
 
@JosephWright Why does it say I have access to mod tools but I can't do that :-(
 
@StephanLehmke The 10k tools aren't really the same as the mod ones: only 'real' mods get the ability to edit any chat message, for example
 
@JosephWright Re mod tools: why if I start in the "Review" tab I get notification of 0 questions with closing votes, while one pops out in the "Tools" tab?
 
@egreg No idea: one for the Powers That Be, I guess
Anyone know when EuroTeX2013 is scheduled for?
 
4:36 PM
@JosephWright Reverse psychology! :P
@StephanLehmke Fine, I'll probably write something later on.
We could do a reality show with this TUG thing. :)
 
@PauloCereda You mean the container type, where the audience "votes out" one participant a week?
 
@StephanLehmke And a cagefight with giant cottonsticks. :)
 
Sounds like fun, I wonder what container we should take? Something like a conclave for finishing LaTeX3 maybe?
3
 
Hi everyone, I've got a quick question regarding comments here on tex.stackexchange.com. Am I on the right place?
 
OMG YES!
White smoke! Habemus LaTeX3!
2
 
4:45 PM
@NunoNunes Yes
@StephanLehmke Do you know anything about RTL typesetting?
 
Hi Joseph. Whenver I try typing the symbol @ in a comment to refer to someone, e.g., "@Joseph", it disappears once I click on "Add comment". Am I doing something wrong?
 
kan
@NunoNunes Perhaps, you're commenting on Joseph's answer with @Joseph?
 
@NunoNunes You should be able to press TAB to complete the suggestion
 
@NunoNunes Ah don't worry. :) You are doing absolutely right. The problem relies on the SE framework, which removes the person's name when you are the only one in the conversation. If one more person enters the comment party, the @ reference is now allowed once again. :)
 
As @kan says, the '@' business will be auto-deleted if the back-end decides it is not needed
 
4:52 PM
Oh, I understand now! (Just tried it for myself...) Thanks everyone. Have a good weekend!
 
@NunoNunes You too! :)
 
@JosephWright No, sorry.
 
@StephanLehmke Worth a try :-)
 
5:11 PM
I was right about the reverse election: meta.tex.stackexchange.com/a/2908
 
@percusse:
\documentclass{article}

\usepackage[T1]{fontenc}
\usepackage[utf8]{inputenc}
\usepackage{tikz}
\usepackage{xcolor}

\definecolor{cd4aa00}{RGB}{212,170,0}
\definecolor{c0055d4}{RGB}{0,85,212}

\newcommand{\dolanduck}{%
\begin{tikzpicture}[y=0.80pt, x=0.8pt,yscale=-1, inner sep=0pt, outer sep=0pt]
  \path[draw=black,line join=miter,line cap=butt,line width=0.800pt]
    (445.0141,295.5803) .. controls (463.5305,240.9192) and (454.4385,195.2341) ..
    (365.9156,193.8680) .. controls (292.1854,192.7302) and (262.8579,232.0923) ..
 
kan
duck... should I compile? :)
 
@JosephWright I've added a list of people who I think would be worthy candidates. @Jake @PauloCereda @percusse @GonzaloMedina @werner @PeterGrill
2
 
@AlanMunn Yup, saw that
 
@JosephWright And now I just read your subsequent message. Prediction confirmed. :)
 
5:14 PM
@AlanMunn As it's 'my' question, I get a notification of each answer or comment :-)
 
@JosephWright What sort of thing do want to know? I know a little bit.
 
@AlanMunn Thanks, Alan. I might write a nomination, but as I mentioned to Joseph, I would be glad to not nominate myself in favour of our community. :)
 
@AlanMunn The question of RTL typesetting has come up on the LaTeX3 (internal) list. We could do with someone who's willing to give us some thoughts on what is needed on a practical level.
 
@JosephWright Although possibly not the easiest person to deal with, but Vafa Khalighi would be a good person to contact, since he is the author of bidi. Asking on the XeTeX mailing list would also be a good place to start, since many XeTeX users are also RTL language users.
 
@AlanMunn Vafa occurred to me, but I'm not sure of his position as he's moved bidi to XeTeX-only and moved on to LuaTeX-only code but commercially
@AlanMunn One issue is the pdfTeX/XeTeX/LuaTeX differences, another is what the different traditions are (for example, are numbers RTL in some languages, and what does that actually mean!)
 
5:30 PM
@PauloCereda I think you should definitely put your name in, and I'm glad that @AlanMunn has done so :) Kudos :)
 
@JosephWright I think the numbering issue mainly comes up in things like section numbers, which are commonly set RTL (depending on the language) on the premise that they are not actually numbers, but stand for some linguistic object like "Section 1 subsection 2.". Even in Arabic, real numbers are set LTR I think.
 
@AlanMunn That's one of the questions :-)
Current feeling in the team is that numbers are set RTL in LTR languages as 'we' got things wrong when we adopted 'arabic' numerals!
 
@AlanMunn Yes: in Arabic the numbers are written in the same order as in LTR languages (the higher value digit on the left).
 
@AlanMunn There are some demos I've seen using real arabic numerals set in the opposite order to that used in (say) English
 
@JosephWright So Persian and Arabic section numbers tend to be RTL, but in Hebrew the norm is LTR.
 
5:34 PM
@AlanMunn That was one of the questions we had: did this vary. Answer clearly 'yes, but not a simple function of main language direction'
 
@JosephWright Right. And with respect to Arabic numerals glyphs, from what I know they are still written LTR. But there's always a possibility that for some historical texts the direction was RTL.
 
Why Arabic numbers are written "LTR" instead that "RTL"? This has to do with the Arabic language: I'm told that they read numbers starting from units, then tens, then hundreds and so on. The Indians instead used the same as in Latin, starting from the highest order (a common characteristic in Indoeuropean languages). So the Arabs wrote the numbers just like the Indians did. When Fibonacci introduced the Indic figures in the West, he used the same order as the Arabs from whom he learnt them.
 
@egreg Yes, I think that's right, basically the numbers are composed using conjunctions and starting from the units. So 25 is roughly "five and twenty" etc.
 
@AlanMunn I experimented with a student who came from Morocco. They study French in school since first grade and of course learn to write numbers with different digits. I asked her to write something with a number first in Italian, then in Arabic. She wasn't even aware of the strange fact that, apart from the form of the digits, the numbers were the same.
 
@egreg Cute.
@JosephWright @egreg Also there are lots of languages that are written with the Arabic script that have nothing to do with Arabic linguistically: Persian, Malay, Urdu, Pashto etc. so their numeral syntax is likely not like Arabic's.
 
5:53 PM
@AlanMunn But I believe that the order of digits is the same.
 
@egreg In writing, probably, but not because it matches the syntax, then.
@JosephWright Another person to contact might be Mike Maxwell casl.umd.edu/michael-maxwell who does a lot of multilingual typesetting in tons of languages and scripts using XeTeX.
 
kan
@egreg: Can you point me to a "good" treatment of the concept of rank of a matrix, please? I'd be so grateful to you.
 
@PauloCereda Er, who's that community again? My little part of the community would favour it if you would nominate yourself.
 
@AlanMunn They probably have some problems, if their language is Indoeuropean.
 
@StephanLehmke I meant other people who want the opportunity. :)
 
5:56 PM
@kan Strang's book?
 
kan
@egreg Oh, OK. I'll get hold of a "copy" here. I'll look into it now... Thank you.
 
@PauloCereda If you don't want the membership, please clearly say so. But if you want it, then you're part of those "other people" (from my POV ;-)
 
@StephanLehmke :)
 
@kan What we do in ours (in Italian) is based on that book: the rank is the dimension of the column space; with the help of Gauss elimination it can be computed from the echelon form. And from this, the fact that a matrix and its transpose have the same rank is quite easy.
 
kan
@egreg OK, hopefully, the same treatment will carry over to rings with unity, except, that, we might have to redefine pivot so as to allow any non-zero element?
commutative, of course.
 
6:01 PM
@kan You find something about that in Jacobson's "Basic Algebra I" (it was my textbook in my first year): he basically proves the theorem on invariants of finitely generated modules over a PID with the elimination.
 
@egreg Well Persian (and Pashto) and Urdu are Indo-Aryan which is part of the Indo-European group; Malay in Malayo-Polynesian, and unrelated.
 
kan
@egreg My favourite text and I read the treatment; but, I thought, proving structure theorem over PID is an overkill for generalising rank. :)
 
@kan Well, it's quite a problem to generalize it. :)
 
kan
Oh, I see. :(
 
@AlanMunn Ah right: I might bring this up by e-mail
 
kan
6:04 PM
I'll look deeply into this matter. I want to understand this "rank" properly.
 
@egreg They are not: ours are written RTL, we just read them incorrectly :-)
 
@percusse:
\documentclass{article}

\usepackage[T1]{fontenc}
\usepackage[utf8]{inputenc}
\usepackage{tikz}
\usepackage{xcolor}

\definecolor{cff0000}{RGB}{255,0,0}
\definecolor{c00ff00}{RGB}{0,255,0}

\newcommand{\drawgooby}{%
\begin{tikzpicture}[y=0.80pt, x=0.8pt,yscale=-1, inner sep=0pt, outer sep=0pt]
  \path[draw=cff0000,fill=cff0000] (422.1676,433.5615) .. controls
    (438.1840,424.3496) and (446.5889,419.0550) .. (453.7150,413.6887) .. controls
    (459.1862,409.5685) and (467.3968,402.5636) .. (467.6301,401.8168) .. controls
 
kan
@Paulo Well, ducks and "goobies" are tempting me. :P
 
@JosephWright Arabs have less problems in doing additions and multiplications in columns: they don't need to leave padding space on the left, as we do.
 
@kan Beware of the internet, young grasshopper. :)
Ma buddy @percusse might get both references. :P
 
kan
6:07 PM
@PauloCereda young ok! but why grasshopper? (plain curiosity!)
 
kan
@PauloCereda Oh. :)
I had no clue about "grasshopper" until I watched it.
 
From this scene on, the master always refers to his student as grasshopper. :)
 
kan
@PauloCereda Oh, I see.
 
So, "Patience, young grasshopper" is a famous sentence. :)
 
kan
6:14 PM
Hmm, interesting. I should learn to be less assuming.
 
@StephanLehmke: I'll write my nomination by tonight or tomorrow. :)
@kan Don't worry. :) I probably watched too much television. :)
 
6:40 PM
4
Q: Factors that influence voting

cmhughesI'm curious about the factors that influence voting. One of my motivations is the number of '0-score' answers there are. Indeed, even @egreg has one page of '0-score' answers- I find this really interesting. I've been an active member on the site for over a year- I love the community that we ...

I'm sure @PauloCereda will have a view!
 
@JosephWright I'll add an answer. :)
 
I took a look at stackexchange.com/sites, and found that based on questions asked per day, we are sixth across the whole network. Why was I looking? I was thinking about reverse elections, and wanted to see how many mods other sites have. All those 'above' us on questions-per-day have many more mods than us.
4
If you look based on traffic, we are a bit lower down, but only one site 'above' us has three mods (Android).
I think this is a good sign :-)
 
@JosephWright Are you saying we need more mods? I think we also have a very high signal to noise ratio in our questions and answers.
 
@AlanMunn No, not at all
@AlanMunn I'm saying things work very well :-)
@AlanMunn As Jeff A said, people don't come here by accident!
 
@JosephWright Ok. That's what I thought, just checking. :)
 
6:48 PM
Psmith might be operational in a few days. :)
 
I also keep an eye on our position in the network (may be important): I see we are still top 10, traffic-wise :-)
Hello @Natetronn: not seen you here before
 
7:13 PM
@JosephWright Thanks for the mention. I must say I haven't been active at all as a TUG member, by lack of time to invest in conferences etc., so I think someone else would probably be a better fit for it.
 
@ℝaphink 'Activity' is as you find it: TUG conferences are only once a year, and I'm not sure if many people will make it to Japan in October 2013!
 
ok
well then
If it's fine that I'm only posting on the blog once in the while and participating here (and talking about LaTeX when people want me to use Open/Libre/MSOffice), then I'm happy to keep receiving TUGBoat ;-)
 
So @Paulo, have you changed your mind about TUG membership? Yeah, and, Hi!
 
7:29 PM
@tohecz Hi Tom! :) I might add some thoughts to that question. :)
 
@PauloCereda ok :) and are you being ok?
 
@tohecz hm?
 
@PauloCereda sorry, I said something strange. I mean, how do you do? :D
 
@tohecz Oh. :) I'm fine. And you? :)
 
I'm ok. It would be better if I didn't injure my right thumb yesterday, but it'll be fine
 
7:38 PM
@JosephWright thanks for the pointer! I'll vote for @PauloCereda, once he's on the list
 
@topskip <3
 
 
1 hour later…
8:39 PM
@PauloCereda Hahahaaa perfect! My girlfriend will love it. She is a meme fan. I just bought her this : zazzle.nl/… See the back side :) forever alone
 
@percusse OMG! :)
 
@percusse :-)
 
@percusse: Now we need to draw Spooderman and the first episode is ready for being filmed in beamer + tikz. :)
 
@PauloCereda hehehe. I'll clean it up soon :)
@JosephWright I'll vote for Paulo too :) So put him on the list even he doesn't add himself to the list.
 
@percusse @AlanMunn thanks a lot for your answers, +1 for both, and really appreciate your input (I would tag @barbarabeeton too if she were here)
Is this the right place for the 'Answer the unanswered'?
 
8:44 PM
@cmhughes Wait for the top-guys @lockstep and @PauloCereda for the conclusion :)
 
@percusse I'm so gonna write an answer. :)
Yay, barbara is here! :)
 
@barbarabeeton thanks for your input on my question :)
 
Guys, let's behave.
 
@cmhughes Yup
 
@PauloCereda are you nominating yourself? :) I hope so :)
@JosephWright thanks :)
 
8:46 PM
/me combs his hair...
 
@cmhughes I will.
 
@JosephWright Where do you get the stats?
 
@MartinSchröder Which stats?
@MartinSchröder Do you mean stackexchange.com/sites?
 
@percusse oppa gangnam style!
 
@JosephWright " based on questions asked per day" - is there a page with that numbers?
 
@JosephWright Aah. I didn't use the list view :-)
 
@MartinSchröder Yup, we work hard to keep it that way
 
@JosephWright yep. there's en event coming up :-)
 
@MartinSchröder Indeed, we are getting a good collection of people
 
@JosephWright do you announce when the session officially starts? I have attended these before, but only in a passive way...
 
8:55 PM
@cmhughes Yes, I have a load of text ready to send!
 
Welcome to the... Oh wait, we still have a few minutes left.
:)
 
@cmhughes Feel free to start early!
 
@JosephWright ok, thanks :)
 
I have mass now, but I'll sing as fast as I can so I can catch the last thirty minutes of the session. :)
 
@PauloCereda See you later
 
8:57 PM
@JosephWright Cheerio! (learned of Frasier) :)
 
@JosephWright Yeah, just for the records: currently there're 636 questions in the queue to be answered (or killed).
 
@AlanMunn On the TUG thread, I'd like to keep one answer per nomination. Could you make your 'other suggestions' a comment on the question itself
 
@PauloCereda bye
 
@JosephWright Ok. I can do that.
 
@PauloCereda see ya :)
 
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