« first day (121 days earlier)      last day (4816 days later) » 

12:48 AM
Congratulations to user "Jonathan M Davis" for asking no questions, providing no answers, yet earning the "Fanatic" badge.
2
 
@lockstep Maybe we need a "Lurker" badge.
@lockstep Do you know of a biblatex style I could look at that has code for plural vs. singular editors? (i.e. J. Smith, ed. vs. J. Smith and B. Jones, eds.)
 
@AlanMunn He earned exactly 0 bronze badges, 1 silver badge ("Enthusiast") and 1 gold badge ("Fanatic").
@AlanMunn Maybe @domwass's "biblatex-dw" styles. But I don't know if they provide automatic solutions.
 
1:03 AM
@lockstep Thanks. I know it's doable, I just wanted to look at some sample code to see the best way to do it. I'll look at Dominik's stuff. I just wondered if you'd come across such code seeing as you seem also to be a bit of a biblatexpert.
 
@AlanMunn I like the "biblatexpert" term. :-)
 
@lockstep I have no idea how to pronounce it though. :-)
 
 
8 hours later…
9:07 AM
They have updated the style in the Users section.
 
9:53 AM
@MartinScharrer Do you like it? I don't, to me it looks cluttered.
 
10:20 AM
@HendrikVogt No, not really. I liked the older one better. Ok, you can change the order now, but this was already possible at stackexchange.com/leagues/29/week/tex
 
10:45 AM
@MartinScharrer In my opinion they could just have included that option for ordering in the old style.
 
11:09 AM
OK, here's the relevant link to meta.SO:
43
Q: Redesigning the /users page

Jeff AtwoodAfter 2.5 years of being almost entirely unchanged, we're thinking about redesigning http://stackoverflow.com/users This page is kind of underutilized real estate at the moment: It is rather monotonous, since it always shows the same list and Jon Skeet is always on top. (Although to be fair, ...

 
12:07 PM
Is there an easy command to make TeX print thin lines around all the boxes it uses? I've seen that sort of thing in package documentation and in TUGBoat...
 
 
2 hours later…
1:42 PM
@Seamus I always thought they are drawn manually, but if there is an automatic command I would be very interested in it as well!
 
@Seamus, @MartinScharrer I believe it's described in the TeXBook
Reputation manipulation WIN i.imgur.com/Ak7oa.png
3
 
@MatthewLeingang :-)
@MatthewLeingang Does it describe how to do it manually or automatically?
 
@MartinScharrer I seem to remember it being an exercise that would "turn on" the replacement of all hbox/vboxes with drawn boxes.
@MartinScharrer See Exercise 11.5 in the TeXBook. It's called \demobox. Maybe not exactly what @Seamus wanted but hackable
 
2:10 PM
@MatthewLeingang Thanks. Looks like a good start.
Maybe redefining \hbox to draw a border around itself might do the trick.
 
3:02 PM
@MartinScharrer We are not alone:
18
Q: The new user page layout requires some work

GenericTypeTeaI quite like the idea of the new user page, but the design is horrible. It looks incredibly messy. Understandably it's hard to get dynamic content perfect in every scenario, but the page just looks like it can be improved. I think that no text should ever be under the profile image as that's a m...

 
@HendrikVogt Thanks
 
 
2 hours later…
4:38 PM
hi. anyone here ever tried lout?
 
5:34 PM
@FaheemMitha Links are always appreciated: The Lout Document Formatting System
 
@Martin: I assumed people who had used it would know what it was.
 
@FaheemMitha I didn't even knew what are you talking about until I search it in Google. At least put "lout" in quotes so people which don't know it yet know that it is a subject not a verb. I was first thinking you talk (a) about some chat function which lets you "speak lout" or (b) you misspelled something.
 
@Martin: Fair enough. I guess that sentence was lacking context.
 
@JosephWright Is the fact that \celsius in siunitx does not obeyfamily a status-bydesign?
 
Anyway, about "lout": What I don't like on its FAQ is 1. it has the mandatory entry "Why use Lout instead of LaTeX [or troff]?" at the very end, not at the beginning where I expected it :-), and 2. It lists totally outdated information about LaTeX ("in LaTeX by including Postscript files generated by utility programs such as xfig, you have to specify the size of each included figure, losing a lot of Lout's flexibility.")
 
5:43 PM
@Seamus Minimal example, please :-)
 
@JosephWright: Any last update on the voting status?
 
@MartinScharrer 410 voters are eligible for this election, 140 visited the election, and 93 voted
2
22.7% voted
Perhaps there will be a final rush
 
@Martin: i guess not a lot of people are using it. was just curious.
since it is the only competition to tex that i know of
troff/groff are hardly competitors
 
@FaheemMitha You've heard of ANT, I hope :-)
@FaheemMitha "ANT is Not TeX:
 
@JosephWright \documentclass{beamer}\usepackage[load=named]{siunitx}\begin{document}\frame{\S­I{10}{\celsius}}\end{document}
 
5:46 PM
@Joseph: that's a build system, isn't it?
 
You get a serif "C"
 
@FaheemMitha No, it's a TeX-like system but is not TeX (no catcodes)
 
@Joseph: i see.
 
@Seamus That looks like a bug: I'll fix it after work
 
@JosephWright As I said: Links are always appreciated: ant.berlios.de in comparison to the other ANT: ant.apache.org (which comes first in the Google results)
 
5:49 PM
this is ot, but can anyone suggest free mailing list services for a free software project? gpl v2 or later. i'm partial to mailman
this ant doesn't seem to be in debian.
 
@JosephWright It's only for some units. \SI{10}{\kilo\metre} works fine...
 
as opposed to the apache / build tool ant, which is.
 
@MartinScharrer Sorry, didn't have a link to hand
@FaheemMitha Yes, someone once mentioned 'ant' to me and I naturally thought of the typesetting ANT from the TeX context
@Seamus Faulty definition for \SISymbolDegreeCelsius
 
@JosephWright: I'd never heard of this ant before now.
 
@FaheemMitha I picked it up from the UK FAQ years ago: I guess one has to read a lot of odd stuff to find it
 
5:55 PM
@JosephWright: Frankly, this project looks dead.
 
@FaheemMitha Yes, I'd agree
 
otoh, lout is alive
 
In anticipation of the upcoming saga.. that is, election end, I propose the gold "Prescient" badge -- Predicted the outcome of the election before the candidates nominated themselves
 
@FaheemMitha It's one I've not come across before :-)
@MartinTapankov We soon get to see how the results are actually applied - is it 'instant'?
 
@JosephWright: I don't think so.. I guess they need to calculate the results with the OpenSVT software, which is probably done manually to avoid mistakes
But from observations, it shouldn't take more than half a day, probably less
 
5:59 PM
@MartinTapankov I'd imagine that it can all be automated - that's rather the point of computers, no?
 
@JosephWright: Well yeah -- but I'd guess they would want to double check the results to avoid mistakes
 
@MartinTapankov Soon find out :-)
 
But as soon as the results are ready, the new mods will see their diamonds
Perhaps a good time to say a big THANK YOU to all our pro tem mods -- you guys did a terrific job, and helped in no small part building TeX-SE as it stands today.
4
 
@MartinTapankov Thanks, and thanks from me to all of the other pro tem team
 
6:21 PM
Bye, bye, diamond. Bye, bye, happiness. Hello emptiness, I think I'm a-going to cry ...
 
@AndrewStacey: George Harrison would be proud of you
 
@MartinTapankov It is possible that there won't be new mods, as three persons of the pro tem team have come forward as candidate.
 
@lockstep: There will be! I have money on this thing! :-)
 
@MartinTapankov: ??? George Harrison ??? ... ah, I was just going to link to the relevant wikipedia page where I saw that he did a cover version in 1974. But I know the Everly Brothers version
 
@AndrewStacey: Ahh, indeed. Excuse my lacking music knowledge.
 
7:00 PM
@MartinTapankov: No worries! It happens to be a song on our "safe playlist" in the car (ie songs that it is safe to play with kids in the back memorising every word)
@JosephWright: I vaguely remember Robert asking for our addresses, presumably to send us something. Did anything come of that?
 
7:15 PM
@AndrewStacey I was wondering much the same
 
The 'go and vote' banner vanished again.
(not that it really matters by now)
 
@Caramdir: Foregone conclusion, heh? (Just reinstated the banner for 40 minutes)
 
@AndrewStacey Good work, Andrew, supporting the election by the banner!
@AndrewStacey I mean the several times you activated it, not just this time for the 40 minutes ;-)
 
@Stefan: Well, I think it's daft that the election goes on for a week but the default message only lasts 2 days. That's a trick worthy of the British electoral system!
 
Sad that there are only 3 mod jobs
I know a job for the 4th place (if it's not me ;-)
Since today, Germany need a new minister of defence. The fake doctor stepped down today.
 
7:32 PM
@StefanKottwitz Are you offering?
@StefanKottwitz There was some talk of asking the fourth person to cover when a mod is unavailable - no idea if this is actually happening
 
@JosephWright Do you would like to be our minister of defence? Caution - this time there's no reverse election (the ex-minister would win it)
 
@StefanKottwitz Not really my thing, plus I have a real PhD which probably disqualifies me
 
in my view, a real PhD is so much more worth than any politic position
 
There are some last-minute votes coming in :-)
 
@JosephWright Details, please!
 
7:40 PM
@JosephWright Fine! Status: 411 voters are eligible for this election, 142 visited the election, and 95 voted
2
 
@StefanKottwitz That's two since I checked last
 
There are 3300 people registered on tex.sx according to that data.sx thing
 
@FaheemMitha Yes, but you need 150 rep. to vote
 
i wonder what proportion of the tex community that represents...
 
@JosephWright still 18 minutes - make a projection
 
7:41 PM
@JosephWright: yes, i'm aware
 
@FaheemMitha The rep. requirement is odd: it means that the electorate grows during the election!
 
i wasn't talking about the election...
 
@FaheemMitha I believe Dante has several thousand members
 
@JosephWright: Seems reasonable to me.
the rep requirement i mean
@JosephWright: dante?
 
@FaheemMitha Here in the UK, we have rather less (around 150, but will shrink)
@FaheemMitha German TeX user group
 
7:43 PM
@JosephWright: ah
@JosephWright: you're german?
 
@FaheemMitha No
 
no, uk. never mind
 
@FaheemMitha I know a lot of German TeX users
 
i figure the international tex community must be quite small. in comparison to the python community for example
@JosephWright: Yes, I see.
 
@JosephWright I wonder what happens if one downvotes a post from a user with exactly 150 rep. Does that disenfranchise him/her?
 
7:44 PM
The Germans excel at this kind of stuff
eg. Till Tantau
and David Kastrup, and probably lots of other people
I'm at 60, else I would have voted
 
@FaheemMitha Depends on how you look at it, I guess: there are a lot of 'one-off' LaTeX users
@FaheemMitha For example one Frank Mittelbach (he of LaTeX2e)
 
@JosephWright: Right. German too?
 
@FaheemMitha Yup
 
I should be precise. I think I'm at 60. but the system is a bit confusing. in this chat i seem to have 161 or something. maybe that is a total across various se sites?
 
Yes, really a lot of the "well known" TeXnicians are German.
 
7:48 PM
@FaheemMitha I think so - I'm down here as what seems to be the sum of all of my rep
 
@JosephWright: Ah, thanks for the confirmation.
 
If this is a reverse election what are we all doing here waiting for the clock to strike 20 UTC?
 
@MatthewLeingang Last chance to withdraw ;-)
 
@MatthewLeingang I'm waiting to see how long it takes to find out who 'lost' (and is therefore a mod after 8)
@MartinScharrer You can't once the election proper starts, I think
up to 96 votes
 
@JosephWright I thought I read "at any time" but this might have just been inaccurate
 
7:51 PM
@MartinScharrer It did say that, but once voting started the appropriate link vanished
 
@Martin: the lout faq doesn't even mention context
 
@JosephWright I just saw that. Can't edit my candidate statement as well, and the link was on that page IIRC
 
@MartinScharrer Exactly
 
it just says how hard latex is to program. which i'd be inclined to agree with, not really knowing anything about it
actually, i'm not even aware of a box which teaches latex programming
 
@FaheemMitha Very true: that's why I'm on the LaTeX3 Project
 
7:54 PM
@FaheemMitha and that's why I'm writing a beginner's guide book
 
@StefanKottwitz: A LaTeX programming book? In English or German?
 
@FaheemMitha in English
 
@StefanKottwitz: and a programming book?
or something like math into latex?
 
@FaheemMitha a guide to using LaTeX
 
@StefanKottwitz: I hope you'll include programming stuff.
 
7:57 PM
@FaheemMitha not really programming
 
that's missing in most books
@StefanKottwitz: ok
 
@FaheemMitha perhaps if I would get the chance to write a second book ;-)
 
so, does anyone know of a latex programming book?
 
@FaheemMitha No: LaTeX2e programming is too much of a mix of stuff
 
@FaheemMitha: I don't see anything in Lout which can be done using TeX/LaTeX + pstricks or TikZ. Plus the font in the example document looks lousy.
 
8:00 PM
Election over
 
final count?
 
@FaheemMitha: And normal users don't have to program anything with LaTeX
 
@Caramdir Not yet
You can get the data, it seems
 
"Download the election data and use OpenSTV for windows or mac to audit the results."
 
@MartinScharrer: You mean can't?
 
8:01 PM
@FaheemMitha Yes, "can't" of course, sorry!
 
@MartinScharrer: well, sometimes you might want to write or modify a stylesheet
and even just understand what the thing is doing
 
No Linux version of this tool? It has "Open" in its very name!
@FaheemMitha Styles don't have much to do with things I would call "programming".
 
@MartinScharrer I get: Winners are Stefan Kottwitz, Joseph Wright, and Martin Scharrer
3
 
someone voted in the last 20 minutes
 
But there are lots of options
@Caramdir Yes
 
8:03 PM
@Joseph: Phew, that was fast!
 
@AndrewStacey Grab data, run analysis program, post results, easy
 
@JosephWright s/Winners/Losers ? (its a reverse election!)
 
Is that the "official" exit poll, then? If so, that counts you, Stefan, and Martin out ... (for all non-Brits: British exit polls are notorious for their inaccuracy)
 
"OpenSTV will run on MS Windows, Mac OS X, and Linux." aha!
 
@Caramdir Direct quote from the analysis software!
 
8:05 PM
@MartinScharrer: a latex stylesheet isn't latex programming?
i don't get this reverse election stuff
 
@FaheemMitha A running joke: we had a long period where no-one stood, waiting to see what everyone else would do
 
@FaheemMitha If you talking about a ".sty" file as "stylesheet" then it can include programming. We actually called it a "package". Only changing styles itself isn't programming in my opinion.
 
(or perhaps not exactly a joke, but amusing at least)
 
We take our Douglas Adams seriously here
 
Les mods sont morts--vivent les mods!
 
8:07 PM
Not quite yet, I appear to still be gasping.
 
@AndrewStacey: Douglas Adams? Is this a hitchhikers reference?
@MartinScharrer: style file as in .sty or .cls. isn't .sty obsolete?
 
@Faheem: Yes. I don't remember the exact quote, but the one I'm thinking of is where he explains that the main qualification for running the universe is not wanting to run the universe.
 
@AndrewStacey: sounds reasonable to me. if only Earthly elections were conducted on that principle
I remember an Arthur C. Clarke novel which implemented this principle
 
@FaheemMitha No, .sty are packages, .cls are classes.
 
@Faheem: Must've missed that one, which are you thinking of?
 
8:09 PM
@AndrewStacey: I forget. It wasn't a big part of the story.
i remember something about the election winner being dragged kicking and screaming into office
now only if they ran the US like that...
 
@AndrewStacey Something like that (I think in fourth we have @lockstep, by the way)
It's all a bit dense
 
So, I installed the Linux version. With the "Meek STV" which should be used according to the election site I get as well:
 
@Joseph: Can you vary the parameters to get a different result? More generally, I'm curious as to how close it was since there wasn't a lot to choose between you all.
 
Winners are Stefan Kottwitz, Joseph Wright, and Martin Scharrer.
 
(I'm pretty sure about Stefan and me: we both seem to be through in the first round with no vote redistribution)
 
8:12 PM
*hands diamond over to Martin*
 
* accepts diamond *
 
@AndrewStacey Top two (which I'm embarrassed to say includes me) are quite a bit ahead of the rest
 
Thanks!
 
@AndrewStacey The rules seem to be about how votes are handed round during elimination
MeetSTV seems to take 'unneeded' votes from those who've already been selected and pass them round the other candidates
 
@JosephWright: Would you mind posting the program output on meta, if possible?
 
8:14 PM
Yes: When I read the values correctly there are 28 primary vote for Stefan and 26 one for Joseph, next one is me with 13.
 
@JosephWright I didn't tell you the true requirement for the "Reverse Election" badge -- Finish as no. 4.
 
@MartinTapankov Will do in a second
 
*starts singing* 99 transferable votes sitting on a wall, 99 transferable votes sitting on a wall, and if one moderator candidate should accidentally not get enough votes to get through the first stage, there'll be 98 transferable votes sitting on a wall
 
the version of openstv that comes with ubuntu seems to be missing the menus...
 
0
Q: Election results 2011

Joseph WrightRaw output from MeekSTV voting (I hope): OpenSTV version 1.7 (http://www.OpenSTV.org/) Suggested donation for using OpenSTV for an election is $50. Please go to http://www.OpenSTV.org/donate to donate via PayPal, Google Checkout, or Amazon Payments. Certified election reports are also avai...

 
8:16 PM
debian uses en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Condorcet_method for the DPL elections
 
Right, @AndrewStacey, your a mathematician, you check if this seems right
 
@JosephWright I was just posting mine as an answer :-)
 
@JosephWright there are only 6 candidates in the output you posted?
 
Oops, think I was wrong on fourth
 
@Caramdir No, it's all right -- only formatted in a strange way.
 
8:19 PM
no, that seems to be more complicated to read
 
Only 1 vote splitted the third place
 
Re-reading it, I suspect @Caramdir came fourth
The layout does not help
@MartinTapankov Hmm, tight as expected
Still no sign of an official result (which is odd as this should be easy to automate)
 
@JosephWright I think you are correct -- Caramdir isn't mentioned in the log text, but I was the fourth candidate to be eliminated.
 
@lockstep As I said, it's quite hard to read. It doesn't really make clear who was eliminated last
 
@JosephWright Yes @Caramdir seems to be #4
 
8:24 PM
That means that I get the “Reverse Election” badge?
 
@Caramdir I guess so
What's notable is that the top 4 would have been the same with just the first round voting :-) (I can't be bothered to check the rest)
 
@JosephWright No one, but @Martin Scharrer reached the threshold. :-) (IIRC, after every round either at least one candidate reaches the threshold or exactly one candidate is eliminated.)
 
Then lockstep followed by Matthew Leingang followed by Konrad Rudolph and finally Seamus
 
@MartinScharrer Oh, don't make @Seamus feel bad (or good?)
 
@lockstep Everyone who reaches the the threshold is elected (if I understand it correctly).
 
8:27 PM
@Caramdir Correct.
 
@Caramdir How is the threshold calculated?
 
If you look at the raw file you can see how many first/second/thirds everyone got :-)
 
For me as German, which country doesn't has this system at all, this is all a little confusing.
 
@MartinScharrer Neither do we in the UK
 
At least my Irish colleagues explained it a little bit to me
 
8:28 PM
(Hence most constituencies can only be won by one party)
 
so what election method are they using?
 
@FaheemMitha Who?
 
@MartinScharrer Don't know exactly. in the first round it is total votes/avialable positions (+0.0000001)
 
for the tex.sx elections
 
@FaheemMitha Ah, MeekSTV
 
8:29 PM
that's a method?
 
There are many ways to count votes in Single Transferable Vote elections. Voting If a class of children were choosing representatives, say, they could line-up behind the candidate of their choice. They would all know that each candidate only needs a certain number of classmates to vote for them to be elected. So some of those standing in line for a candidate who has more than enough votes would choose to not waste their vote and would instead move to another line to help someone else to win. Naturally, they would not move to a line that already has enough to win. Likewise, those childr...
 
@FaheemMitha Apparently
 
Wikipedia link inclusion? Another feature I didn't know we have.
 
@Caramdir It works for a few sites
 
Thanks @Caramdir I was planning to go to that site anyway!
 
8:31 PM
@Caramdir: how did you do that?
 
How do the secondary and tertiary vote fit into that? * confused *
 
@FaheemMitha Just post the link on a line by itself.
 
Works with YouTube Videos as well!
 
@Caramdir: ah. so, meek's method, huh?
 
@FaheemMitha Also works for all the SO sites, meta sites, etc.
 
@FaheemMitha I wondered about 'meek'
So who is the person who voted for @StefanKottwitz and no-one else? :-)
 
@Caramdir: Here's the authoritative list
8
Q: What links and sites are handled specially in chat?

Juha SyrjäläThere is special linking to some sites in chat. What is the full list of supported and integrated sites?

 
@JosephWright There is also someone who only voted for Matthew
 
Feel free to propose CTAN links for us..
 
@Caramdir So there is
 
8:34 PM
@MartinTapankov True
 
@Caramdir Perhaps this answers the 'can you vote for yourself' question :-)
 
@JosephWright: Good to know
 
@MartinScharrer An instructive example can be found here.
 
@Caramdir: it's not a proper geek site if there's no special treatment of XKCD
 
@MartinTapankov true
 
8:35 PM
I like this one better: de.wikipedia.org/wiki/…
It has fruits in it! FRUITS!
:-)
 
@MartinScharrer You elect pears in Germany?
 
@JosephWright Yes, Helmut Kohl for example!
 
and chocolate!
 
BTW, if someone's missing rep these days..
http://meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/80862/sudden-sharp-reputation-drop-problem-points-disappeared-and-score-lost-recalc
 
And what appear to be baby bel
 
8:36 PM
@JosephWright no, candy
 
@Caramdir I prefer my idea 'we elected a pear, a bar of chocolate and a cheese as moderators'
 
who is which?
 
@Caramdir The text says its "Bonbons", so candy
 
hah! it works! i looked for a tex/latex xkcd, but there doesn't seem to be one
so emacs vs vi will have to do
 
@FaheemMitha: There are a few jokes about Knuth here and there
 
@MartinTapankov: Yes, a couple. xkcd.com/163 and xkcd.com/342
@MartinScharrer: heh
There are too many Martins here. Some of you need to change your names or something
 
@FaheemMitha: Yeah, we're both sock puppets of @AndrewStacey :-)
 
@MartinTapankov The whole site is run by his sock puppets.
 
I'm not even wearing socks at the moment!
 
yesterday, by Andrew Stacey
@MartinTapankov: Sssh, no-one's supposed to know about that! Nor that Caramdir, Joseph, and Martin are all sock puppets.
 
8:52 PM
See! There are more!
 
I should really get to work now, so that I have time to pester the new mods with flags later on.
 
The man must have lots of socks.
 
9:09 PM
One day the SE people are going to wonder about why I spend so long here just talking to myself.
 
9:36 PM
someone needs to tell munroe that the world needs a tex/latex xkcd. i bet he could get plot suggestions too, if he asked nicely.
 

« first day (121 days earlier)      last day (4816 days later) »