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12:00 AM
@PauloCereda It's a very interesting mixture of luck and skill. :-)
 
@lockstep Cool! :)
 
nobody plays klaverjassen? :)
 
@wh1t3 I can't even pronounce it. :)
But it seems very cool. :)
 
I think it's fairly regional to the netherlands
 
Card games seem to be very popular.
 
12:09 AM
I'm off, good night guys
 
@wh1t3 Good night!
 
@wh1t3 Good night!
 
@PauloCereda In the corridors at my department students play cards; during lunch break, usually. But not always. In the sense that they play also at other times. :)
 
@egreg that seems to be a universal practice!
 
@GonzaloMedina At least they don't do it during lectures. :)
 
12:12 AM
@egreg I once listened to a radio transmission of a football game during a lecture. :)
@wh1t3 Good night! :)
 
@PauloCereda Shame on you! Actually some of them have their computers open; I can't see what they're doing, I hope they're taking notes. :)
 
@egreg I'm so sorry, but the lecturer was commiting verbal murder on the subject (it was automata theory), so I gave up on listening to. :)
 
@PauloCereda It happens also during conferences. :) Good night.
 
@egreg Good night! :)
 
@egreg Good night from me, too!
 
12:24 AM
@egreg Good night!
 
1:19 AM
One more vote to close needed:
0
Q: Nested footnotes

user001I am trying to use nested footnotes, but the numbering goes awry. Here is a sample input file: \documentclass{article} \begin{document} This is a footnote\footnote{Here is a footnote within the footnote\footnotemark{}. And here is another one\footnotemark{}.} \footnotetext{This f...

That's it for me. Good night everyone!
 
 
1 hour later…
2:37 AM
Good night, @lockstep!
 
 
3 hours later…
5:44 AM
I hope this isn't viewed as spam, but if so, I'll remove it. The original proposal for a Mathematica specific site was closed for reasons passing understanding. Due to the outcry, the SE team has allowed us to open a new proposal. A number of the committers involved with the original proposal were only involved with TeX - LaTeX, so I am posting here requesting their and anyone else's help in regaining our lost footing.
Thanks.
 
6:36 AM
@rcollyer Done! Thanks for the reminder. Didn't even realize that the previous proposal has vanished.
 
6:49 AM
6
Q: Nested footnotes

user001The footception post (Footception: Footnote within a footnote within a footnote) describes how to make subordinate footnotes. I am trying to make a nested footnote that is placed in the same footnote apparatus as the calling footnote. I am trying to use nested footnotes, but the numbering goes a...

Wow, that is a lot of MWE
Though I can see why, since it is a complex questions. I wonder what the longest question on the site is?
@PauloCereda Wow, glad to know I inspired that! Would you be able to use any of the code from the existing doc -> TeX tools? Also, wouldn't using the pptx format be easier as it is better documented and xml based? If you actually get that to a usable format I'll buy you a beer of your choice (well, within my budget: No Utopias, as I can't afford that. By the time you finish I might be able to I guess)
@rcollyer I started that for you, so that more people will see it. I've not used Mathamatic myself, but I used Maple a few years ago, and having a Stack Exchange would have made it much easier
@JosephWright Who is Frank Mittelbach?
 
7:28 AM
@Canageek Have a look at this :)
 
7:55 AM
@Canageek Frank is the guy who took over LaTeX from Leslie Lamport
I'd say he's the head of the LaTeX Project, although there isn't a formal structure
Frank went up to Leslie at a conference after the release of LaTeX2.09 and said something along the lines "LaTeX is really good, but wouldn't it be useful to change ..." and Leslie said "sure: why don't you take over"
 
 
2 hours later…
9:30 AM
Badge suggestion: "Full and Frank" -- Post upvoted by Frank Mittelbach. This badge can be awarded multiple times.
 
@Canageek: thanks for the inspiration. :) I'll try to support both ppt (OLE2) and pptx (OOXML) formats. I'm still not sure how much PPT stuff I'll be able to "convert" to beamer, at least in an intelligent way. If everything else fails, I'll try a naive approach and get everything from a slide and put it inside a frame. Besides, I want to study how to get those embedded resources, e.g., images. It might take a while for a stable and usable version.
 
10:10 AM
Now that's an interesting question:
1
Q: The \the command

user001Apologies if this is a duplicate question. I wanted to know if someone could point me to a reference where I could learn more about the \the command. Searching for "the" has been, without surprise, entirely unproductive. Even consulting "comprehensive" LaTeX command/macro lists has been unfruitfu...

 
 
3 hours later…
1:39 PM
@percusse @Canageek, thanks. we appreciate it.
 
2:23 PM
@egreg: yay, Juve scored! :)
 
 
2 hours later…
3:55 PM
@PauloCereda And a good win!
 
4:30 PM
@egreg Nice game! I just saw some highlights.
 
@PauloCereda Good game by Del Piero (yay!): had Pepe passed to him a second in advance he would have scored.
 
@egreg He is a great player. I hope he continues in Juve for next year.
 
@PauloCereda The club has already announced that this is his last year. :(
 
@egreg Oh, I thought the club would renew his contract. :(
Oh my, there's a variety show on a TV channel now. The participants were divided into groups represented by colors. The host just said, "Now let's start with the group number... BLUE!".
11
A: Today: TUG; tomorrow: …

doncherrySounds good to me, this would certainly attract a number new users and readers to tex.sx. I have no idea if there's more money to spend, but we could certainly offer a Community Promotion Ad, since detexify doubtlessly is something "your community would genuinely be interested in" (ibid.). Seeing...

Sadly, I had no response from Daniel. I've sent two emails about a detexify ad, but no answer so far. :(
 
5:14 PM
Mods: are bug report questions grounds for closing? tex.stackexchange.com/q/38706/2693
 
@AlanMunn We've marked several of these 'too localized', but it partly depends on whether the bug is closed quickly. If there's a bug that is know but never gets fixed on CTAN then it makes sense to have a work-around posted here. Less so if the package author says 'fixed in v... on CTAN today'
In this case, it's not hard to find the package author so I wonder why not just report directly
 
@AlanMunn @JosephWright Regardless of the fact that it is a bug report, I fail to see a question in there. "Is this a bug" would be a question "How do I work around this bug" is a question., "this is a bug" isn't a question.
 
@JosephWright Right. And given that @@MarcoDaniel is here, it's likely to get fixed, but using the site as a public bug reporting system isn't in anyone's best interest, I think.
@MartinScharrer Thanks Martin. Quick closing may hopefully have some educational effect.
 
@AlanMunn IMHO it's a valid question iff a "strange" behaviour happens to be due to a bug, not the other way.
 
@PauloCereda It might be valid if phrased differently, like "how to overcome this" etc., but then normally the answer would be "report it to the author and wait for a package fix."
 
5:22 PM
@MartinScharrer Ah good point. :)
 
@AlanMunn, @JosephWright: IMHO, pure bug reports don't belong here. It's not a bug reporting site.
 
The "sockpuppet votes removal" script has again (temporarily) revoked some of @egreg's badges: captions, fonts (silver), positioning.
 
In my case I hate it if people post these on some website or forum and don't bother informing me as an author about it. I'm not reading comp.text.tex every day.
 
@MartinScharrer There was a recent question like this on subcaption; I proposed a temporary workaround and Axel Sommerfeldt promised an update. When it will be released, I or Axel will make it clear in the answer.
@lockstep Really? :( Please, another question on fonts!
 
@egreg That sounds fine, when people ask about help. But simple "Here is a bug" posts are not.
 
5:25 PM
@MartinScharrer Yes, that's annoying, especially when the author is reachable by e-mail or has code posted on GitHub and the like.
 
@MartinScharrer Should I refrain from asking questions like the following in the future?
6
Q: fullwidth: Trying to change paragraph margins doesn't work as expected

lockstepThe fullwidth package (current version 0.1) by Marco Daniel "provides the environment fullwidth which allows to set the left and right margins in a very simple way" (manual, p. 1). According to the manual, the package is based on the algorithm of the mdframed package (current version 1.0) by the ...

 
@lockstep Should this be a lesson to, shall we say, "compulsive" voters...?
 
@AlanMunn It should. At least I hope so.
 
@AlanMunn The sockpuppet detection algorithm already got me. I'm demoted to #5.
 
@lockstep Don't see a reason why you should refrain yourself.
 
5:27 PM
@AlanMunn The thing is we don't know who it thinks are the sockpuppets, really
 
I'm the walrus.
 
If you vote a across the questions/answers then it should not look like bad voting
 
@lockstep: I closed the other one @AlanMunn flagged as "Not a question", because it was simply not a question. Therefore there is no valid answer to it
 
@JosephWright It would be nice if they could at least explain the heuristics behind the detection algorithm. :)
 
@JosephWright Well to the extent that we don't think we actually have any real sock puppets on the site, those who routinely use their vote limit very quickly every day are the likely candidates.
 
5:29 PM
@MartinScharrer It was a borderline question between "I don't understand what this package is supposed to do" and "This must be a bug".
 
(That way I can come up with a workaround bwawawawa <- evil laugh.)
 
@PauloCereda We did ask
@AlanMunn I'd hope it's an absolute method, not relative to whoever votes the most!
 
@lockstep It's on thing to have issues with a package which then turns out to be a bug and reporting a real bug.
 
@JosephWright I would bet that it looks at times between successive votes by a single user.
 
@AlanMunn Could be, but that seems rather blunt
 
5:32 PM
@JosephWright those voters indeed might have a different factor.
@AlanMunn I agree. And possibly the voting pattern.
 
@MartinScharrer Yes, that's exactly right, IMO. It's sometimes a fine line, and clearly if someone is having a problem with a package, we shouldn't just close their question and tell them to report it to the author. But this particular case was clearly intended to be "Look here's a bug".
@JosephWright It may have some more sophistication than that, but it would be a place to start. If a user can vote on n questions in less time than it could reasonably take them to have read one of them, you know they're not voting on the basis of the question, but on some other criterion, even if they aren't a sock puppet.
4
 
@AlanMunn I conducted an experiment with privacy policies and if web users would in fact read the whole text. It's relatively easy to get several metrics on every user "step" while browsing the site (without our consent, usually).
 
5:49 PM
@AlanMunn The problem of this example is the package amsthm. At the moment I can't fix it.
 
6:00 PM
@lockstep: That isn't really a bug. It is more a feature request ;-) which is now implemented in the current test version.
 
6:11 PM
@MarcoDaniel Either way the polite way to report it was to you directly rather than use the site.
 
@AlanMunn: sorry for the curiosity, do you own a Mac mini?
 
@PauloCereda No, I never have. In current use right now we have some MacBook Pro's, some MacBooks, an Air, an old dual G5 and a MacPro as our lab server. But no Mac Mini.
 
@AlanMunn Ah I see. I'm thinking of buying one for my workstation. It is very compact and thus perfect for me (think of a cluttered work table), but it seems "too good to be true" for me.
 
6:27 PM
@PauloCereda I don't have any direct experience with them, sorry. But I haven't heard anything bad, either. But the CNET review is kind of mixed because of the fact that it has no optical drive (like the Air). reviews.cnet.com/desktops/apple-mac-mini-2/…
 
@AlanMunn Interesting review, I didn't know about the absence of an optical drive. Unfortunately, I could only afford a simpler model with some raw specs. :(
I might end up with a top specs PC instead of a simple Mac model. :(
 
@PauloCereda Now that would be a shame. But I guess Mac prices are pretty inflated in Brazil.
 
@AlanMunn Indeed. A i7/4Gb/1TB/Lion Mac mini costs R$ 3.299,00. :(
There are Macs up to R$ 7.000,00. :(
 
6:46 PM
@PauloCereda Wow. My price here in R$ would be 1,815.56
@PauloCereda I just noticed our complementary decimal/thousands markers.
 
@AlanMunn Wow²! For your price, I'd buy one without even looking back. :)
@AlanMunn: Now I'm jealous. Can I live in your basement? :)
 
@PauloCereda I dunno. You might find the 30C degree temperature difference a little hard to take.
 
@AlanMunn Uh-oh. :)
 
7:17 PM
@AlanMunn I can make you hear lots of bad about any mac model you want to name. ^^
 
@Canageek I've owned/used Macs since before you were born, and can count on one hand the problems I've had with them. So you're unlikely to convince me now. :-)
 
@AlanMunn I've used Macs since elementary school and had more problems then I can count. Heck, I remember when mac viruses were more common then PC viruses.
 
7:44 PM
My only complain is about Mini-DVI.
 
@PauloCereda Yes, the mini DVI dongle is awful.
 
@AlanMunn Also: You'd better hope you don't have problems, Mac warranty coverage is terrible. Also, not nearly sturdy enough. If I can't drop it from 1 m it isn't good enough.
 
@Canageek The few problems I've had have been covered by Applecare without any trouble. As I said, you're not likely to convince me of this. The MacBook I'm currently using fell off my desk a while ago and is none the worse for wear. And my desktop Macs tend to stay on their desks by themselves.
 
@AlanMunn I had a friend who spilled tea on a $2k laptop 2 months in after paying some crazy high fee for Applecare. Wouldn't touch it, was totally destroyed.
Had to buy a $200 laptop that barely ran to replace it.
 
@Canageek If I'm not mistaken, AppleCare now covers accidental damages.
 
7:54 PM
@PauloCereda They should considering how much they charge!
 
@Canageek How many warranties generally cover spilled tea? I expect a warranty to cover things that go wrong that aren't my fault. I don't think Apple should be responsible for spilled anything.
Anyway, this conversation is not very useful to continue. A couple of friendly jabs about Macs vs. PCs is ok, but having a real debate on the topic is never worthwhile. So I'm out.
 
@AlanMunn I think the same.
@AlanMunn: don't go! :)
 
@PauloCereda I'm out of this conversation at least.
 
Ah! :)
I have good news, I'll start coding the new snippet app next week. :)
 
@Canageek Really? I'm very surprised of this claim, having used Macs since 1985. There have been some viruses on the Mac, actually. But the famous antivirus application "Disinfectant" was used mostly for relaxing.
 
8:04 PM
@egreg Back at my elementary school there were a lot of viruses on the macs, mostly harmless ones through. Added merryxmas to the end of every line of a hypercard stack for instance.
 
@Canageek Probably they didn't install "Disinfectant" because kids would always have looked at it: it was very funny, with a Monty Python theme and a big foot coming from above and squashing the viruses. :)
 
haha, that and we didn't have a staff whom would have known what antivirus was
 
@egreg wow, it's still available! support.apple.com/kb/TA38539
 
@PauloCereda You have to use a very old Mac to run it. If you have one, try it. :)
 
8:20 PM
@egreg Sadly, I can't. :( And there is no Mac user near me.
 
@egreg: cool! :D
 
@PauloCereda That's the full list of viruses found on Mac OS from versions 1 to 9 (actually the first was for System 4, IIRC). After those only "macro viruses" spreading with Excel files were found.
 
@egreg Ah! What a short list, just like the Windows one. :P
 
8:42 PM
0
Q: How to display two kinds of indexes?

projetmbcIs there a way to display two indexes ? This can be usefull for example for one book explaining how to translate from english to french of some scientific expressions sorted by themes. In that case, it would be usefull to have one index for the french words, and another for the english ones.

This seems to be the "Duplicate of the Week" special.
 
@AlanMunn Indeed. :)
 
9:00 PM
I hope my question is not too weird.
0
Q: handling of special LaTeX characters in text

Faheem MithaI have a LaTeX file for a book chapter, which may need to be converted to Word at some point, because that is what the publishers use (sigh). This article doesn't have any math in it, but I'm still using LaTeX, because even when not writing mathematics, it is better than the alternatives. Unfortu...

 
@FaheemMitha I'm not allowed to talk about what constitutes a 'weird' question, but that looks fine to me.
 
@Canageek : Why aren't you? :-)
 
123
Q: How do I make my document look like it was written by an Cthulhu worshipping madman?

CanageekI want to type up some spells from the RPG Call of Cthulhu and give them to my players. I could just type them up in Word or LaTeX, but that seems too....neat. I'd like to make these things look like they were scrawled by a gibbering madman, unhinged by the horrors he has witnessed. Bonus points ...

 
@Canageek Oh, right. I remember that question.
 
@FaheemMitha Also one of the only longstranding unaswered questions around here
 
9:05 PM
So, what the Cthulhuing a success?
 
10
Q: Placing the un-ligatured text in the OCR layer

CanageekI was reading Why can't "fi" be separated when being copied from a compiled pdf? and had a thought: I know that v1.4 and up PDF documents have an OCR layer. Would it be possible to have PDFTeX or luaTeX place the un-ligatured text into the OCR layer, so that you don't have inconsta...

@FaheemMitha I've made the prop ( canageek.wordpress.com/2011/09/28/summon-invisible-servant to see it) but not used it in game yet.
School got in the way
 
@Canageek : Ok, I see.
Hey, what's with the mysteriously appearing snowman?
 
@FaheemMitha Not at all; there's a very slick trick. :)
@FaheemMitha It's the special "cited" mark for the holidays. :)
 
@egreg Thanks. I was also thinking about $, but (a) I don't really need it and (b) it would break basic math mode, so it is probably not worth the trouble. Does every special character require special handling?
 
Does anybody use Google Reader? I found something cool. :)
 
9:09 PM
@egreg : I see. Forgot it was Christmas.
So would catcode be a suitable tag, or is there something better?
 
@FaheemMitha That shows how many responses to your messages there are. Click on them and it will highlight them.
@PauloCereda I have an account, but don't use it.
 
@egreg Could you annotate a bit for beginners and ignoramuses?
And the _ still works in math mode without change?
 
@Canageek Ah. :) I found they have a "phone" interface for it, so it's cool to have a sidebar in the browser with the content. :)
 
If so, is there some reason this behavior isn't the default?
 
@FaheemMitha I've been wondering why all math symbols don't work in text myself
 
9:15 PM
@egreg Very useful. Can this be adapted to e.g. $, & etc. similarly or will each one require something special?
 
@Canageek Math mode does many things with spaces around symbols. If x is a math variable, you have to say \(x\) for citing it in text. The same for \alpha.
 
@egreg Wouldn't it be $x$ for citing it in text? Or am I doing something wrong?
But what if I want a alpha with textmode spacing?
 
@Canageek It's the same, with \(x\) you have a better error control.
@Canageek ??
 
@egreg As in, I just want the greek letter alpha, but without the fancy spacing? For example, I have a protien called HCN2J<delta>AB
 
@FaheemMitha You can say \catcode`$=12 and then use \(formula\)
 
9:19 PM
Heh. Apparently this is a FAQ. Who knew?
 
The delta isn't math, it is part of the name
 
@FaheemMitha Somehow your comment about the typo in PeterGrill's answer appeared after my edit of the typo. You can delete the comment.
 
@AlanMunn Done.
What is the difference between the package and @egreg's answer?
 
@FaheemMitha The package is very complicated, but I don't think all that is necessary. Such a redefinition of _ is quite robust.
@Canageek HCN2J$\delta$AB, of course. :)
 
@egreg I think that is how I did it, but it is UGLY and feels WRONG
 
9:34 PM
\edef\delta{\noexpand\ensuremath{\mathchar\the\delta}}
 
copies I actually use a \HCN macro since I got sick of typing it, so I just have to modify it with that
 
Then HCN2J\delta AB will work
 
:D
@egreg So I don't have to have \newcommand{\HCN}{HCN2J$\Delta$AB}
It can be \newcommand{\HCN}{HCN2J\Delta AB} ?
@egreg Nope, now I get lots of ! Missing $ inserted.
 
@egreg Great. Thanks for the annotation.
 
@egreg There we go, now I added your def, THEN my macro works (Once I realized you were using \delta and I was using \Delta )
 
9:40 PM
@egreg Thanks for the update about other characters. I agree that it does seem more dangerous than it's worth for most of them. For &, for instance, you don't really gain anything compared to escaping it in the text if you have to use another command within tabulars.
 
@egreg Hang on. This isn't an annotation after all. :-)
 
@AlanMunn Yes, that's the nuisance.
@FaheemMitha I've edited again
@FaheemMitha You find many examples of this trick in the site; look for +lccode +lowercase
@Canageek But if you have it in a macro, what's the point in not using $?
 
@egreg Great, thanks.
Hey, cute question.
13
Q: typesetting different characters with different colors in a DNA sequence

TimticoI have created a macro which I used to format DNA sequences, as they should be in the monospaced font and uppercased: \newcommand{\DNA}[1]{\texttt{\uppercase{#1}}} Now I have a column with some different DNA sequences on different rows, lets say: 1 & \DNA{GCATCCAATGCC}\\ 2 & \DNA{GGGA...

 
 
1 hour later…
11:01 PM
With ConTeXt MkIV, underscores, circumflexes and ampersands don't have a special meaning, so writing "_This_ is a text with underscores, hats & ampersands^^." produces just that. For MkII there is a \nonknuthmode macro for the same effect.
 
@egreg: I made a cute arrangement for this hymn, but I could not find the original from Jacques Berthier. I wanna sing it in this year's Midnight Mass. :)
 
Aditya has some thoughts about special characters by the way: randomdeterminism.wordpress.com/2011/09/04/…
 
@PauloCereda Not bad, but didn't you find something better by Palestrina? :)
 
@egreg I'm open to suggestions. :)
 
@TorbjørnT The Unicode non breaking space is wrong in TeX, unless it's redefined to be active with the same meaning as ~. It gives wrong results also in word processors, if they don't stretch or shrink it together with all other spaces on a line.
 
11:13 PM
@egreg Wasn't aware of that, and neither is @Aditya apparently.
 
11:24 PM
@TorbjørnT The usual \begingroup\lccode`~="AA \lowercase{\endgroup\protected\def~}{\nobreakspace}\catcode"AA=\active does the trick for XeLaTeX and LuaLaTeX (this avoids using the character in the definition).
 

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