The Quill and Tankard - 2018-01-24 (page 1 of 2)

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6:03 AM

@TheLethalCarrot Robb kept the old gods and yet he had a squire and promised him a knighthood

And Cat thought "A young knight had taken place of her son" when he put on his helm. But then again, that might be just like when someone who's not a King calls his daughters Princesses

@Kepotx Andals. Rhoynar spoke their own tongue. But the question is, Is Common tongue purely Andal?

Can we truly say that Tongue of the First Men left no impacts on it?

@Edlothiad No, Ghiscari became Meereenese, Yunkish, Astapori. Different dialects of same bastard tongue.

@Kepotx Same doubts exist in Martin's world as well IIRC. There are Kings who ruled for centuries, Knights who rode before there were knights etc. 8,000 years might as well be an exaggeration

Anyways, point being, Common tongue might as well be a hybrid of pure Andal tongue, Old tongue and Rhoynish

Accents do exist (As Pyp says he can tell where a man was born just by hearing to him talk), we must note.

There might be some difficulties in understanding the accent (Northman-Dornishman and vice versa) but the idea that they can still communicate in the same language isn't entirely far-fetched

They aren't isolated and there is continuous contact between different communities of the seven Kingdoms in war and trade

Isolation is one key factor for development of new languages

6:22 AM

@Aegon Same thing... I meant Meereenese

1 hour later…

7:26 AM

1

Q: Reliable lore source regarding Aegon's Conquest

Are there any books I can use to learn about the situation of Westeros right after Aegon's conquest? I am looking for things such as lore supplements or game books.

game-of-thrones

@Aegon I rolled that back, you don't know that the OP isn't asking for a history from the show.

@Edlothiad The guy doesn't know he is actually asking from the books or if the books tag exists

@Edlothiad And what history is that?

Show doesn't have a history book

How do you know that, that's a mere assumption

It doesn't matter. He's asking from a show perspective if a History book exists

Answer "Yes it's the same as the ones for the books"

@Edlothiad Because the question starts with "Are there any books I can use"

Or game guides, etc.

7:32 AM

Boo

That's not saying "I read the books and I want to know the history"

That's saying I want to read the history in the form of a book, but the history of the show

What he doesn't know, is that the history of the show is the same as that of the books.

There is one way to settle it, Ask the guy

Lol, that's what you should've done first ;P

@Edlothiad I am me. I am right

Or at least I like to think that

@Aegon I am me. I am a bubble burster

So half the office is skiing today. Too bad all games are blocked :(

7:44 AM

Why aren't you skiing then?

They informed me yesterday and I'd have to organise stuff to rent etc.They all have cars and I don't, so getting the train out there is effort

And I would have to take a holiday day

When I can get paid money to sit here doing nothing

And off-topic, I am on a thread about what do foreigners find attractive about China, you like China right? Spent time there? What do you personally like about it?

@Edlothiad smart.

@Aegon One could say I spent time there, depends how much time it requires one to have "spent time" there, does 18 years count?

@Edlothiad Bloody hell, you are a right proper Chinese lad then

@Aegon And you're good at coming across as English ;P

7:48 AM

@Edlothiad Harry Potter and British News outlets are to blame

@Aegon Everyone who's not a millionaire is friendly beyond compare. Chaos is part of life and an enjoyable part of life, there's this buzz (at least where I lived) where there's always something going on no matter what the time. It could be 3 am and the restaurant round the corner would start serving the morning meal, etc.

It's incredibly cheap, with a ridiculous amount of history and culture and even after 18 years in one city, I still go back and visit new things all the time. There's an incredible blend of the Modern and the Ancient, and if you really want you can enjoy all the luxuries of the west while enjoying (or ignoring) the culture and beauty of the east.

If you want more of an adventure, there's every type of landscape, climate, natural feature throughout the country. It's like the Earth scaled down into one country.

I would never give up an opportunity to go back.

Does that answer your question?

@Edlothiad So Blend between modern and ancient. And history+culture....and terrain!

Oh and the food is heavenly

@Edlothiad Yup, although now that I know how long have you lived there, I am doubtful that your impression might not be like what a casual foreigner might have.

@Edlothiad Oh that is pretty common in this side of the world

But great stuff

@Aegon Lol true.

@Aegon Meh if you're talking about westerners, their perception is tainted by media. Most I know that have gone to China have been pleasantly surprised by it. And the people I know who have hated it hated it while living there (because it wasn't their home country, usually)

Are you planning on going? When and where? I might be there :O

7:58 AM

@Edlothiad No, not in the foreseeable future but I'd love to go one day cus history and culture. I am just pondering on the point what might attract a foreigner to China

There is a new DLC on China in CK2 and some people aren't as excited by China so we are discussing why might that be

Ah I see.

Hate China because their communist and they watch your every move and tell you about it. (The secret is to watch your people's every move and not tell anyone about it)

TheLethalCarrot

8:59 AM

@Möoz Not at all

TheLethalCarrot

9:10 AM

@Aegon He was raised under both though really so it is a bit of an odd case again

@TheLethalCarrot He kept the old gods however. After taking Riverrun, he and other worshipers of Old Gods went to the Godswood and Cat thought these are the ones who keep the old Gods.

TheLethalCarrot

I'm not disputing that

Just saying because of Cat they have Southern influences

Among Cat's kids, I think only Sansa worships the new gods

nah, she keeps both

Although she is more Southern influenced than rest of her siblings

She's opened minded. What a great character.

TheLethalCarrot

Aye and Bran is obviously heavily influenced by knights

Haha

9:14 AM

@TheLethalCarrot Sansa is a lot more influenced by Knights ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

TheLethalCarrot

lol

9:29 AM

Ah so that's the trick...

TheLethalCarrot

What's the trick?

Being a knight...

TheLethalCarrot

According to E&L just find someone who doesn't care, or bribe someone

@Edlothiad "The girl turn to sighs and giggles everytime a knight rides by. I swear I could not tell you why. Knights are built the same as other men."

@TheLethalCarrot Heh Ser Glendon Flowers. Poor guy

Aegon got it, TLC did not...

TheLethalCarrot

9:33 AM

Well you said it right as I posted my answer haha

I got it after Egg said what he did

I said it after you said lol, I was clearly responding to Aegon...

Oh wait, you answered your question

@TheLethalCarrot Did you mention Brotherhood without banners?

TheLethalCarrot

Yeah y'see compuzzling right? :P

To E&L?

TheLethalCarrot

No

9:34 AM

They knight people without any references to the seven

TheLethalCarrot

Though I did use that in my answer

So a generic oath without any reference to 7 deities can be used for knighting people who don't really believe in the 7

Oh right you did

Just read it

TheLethalCarrot

Basically to be a knight and not follow the Seven find a Lord or knight who doesn't care about that or bribe someone haha

That guardians answer is now my most highly voted one

At least it's knocked that damn story Id one off that spot

Side note: Do you see someone's come up with the new freehand red circle?

3

A: Does the First Order's "Heavy Scout Walker" / "AT-HS" exist in any official fiction (besides Lego sets)?

It actually does have a real picture on Crait that must have been cut from the movie, it is shown in the back ground of a picture of the superlaser siege cannon in "The Art of Star Wars, The Last Jedi", a book that had a bunch of concept artwork in it.

The free hand finger tip

TheLethalCarrot

It's the future

10:11 AM

@JAD what happened to your username?

You almost had me confused for another person...

@Edlothiad it changed

Eugh, gross

Like when Aeg changed his name from NSNoob

10:54 AM

@Edlothiad I don't think you were even around when I was NSNoob here lol. It was before I was really active here

JAD is Jarko right?

ye

TheLethalCarrot

11:15 AM

Is the new question a dupe of this one? If so I want to test Roberts warhammer

11

Q: Where does the background story in A Song of Ice and Fire come from?

As I can read, the author of the series created several books in the series starting with the book A Game of Thrones. I'm watching the series on TV (I haven't read the books). When I watched something in the show that I do not fully understand or want to brush up on, I go search the web and usua...

game-of-thrones a-song-of-ice-and-fire

Just making sure with you guys before I do it though

11:26 AM

@Aegon I wasn't, it was a yoke

TheLethalCarrot

I've hammered it but if you guys disagree I think me or Egg can single handedly open it anyway

That new tolkien question is a dupe, get closing scrubs

Wait what did you dupe?

TheLethalCarrot

The new GoT question

The one I answered?

Those aren't dupes, and if anything my answer is far better than the ones there.

That should either not be duped or duped the other way.

TheLethalCarrot

I think Egg's answer covers the various sources better than yours

And the other question is broader

Covering the scope of the new one

11:30 AM

Oh buried way down, didn't even see that.

TheLethalCarrot

Aye cos it's a late answer

Me I'm not convinced their dupes, I'm voting to re-open

A throwaway line saying "The world of ice and fire" is not equivalent to answering "Where can I read about Aegon's conquest"

TheLethalCarrot

Well your answer is TWOIAF and the other answer says TWOIAF covers the backstory...

To be fair there's 3 or 4 other questions that all ask for sources/backstory in GoT/ASOIAF and all dupe to that target

@TheLethalCarrot No, my answer is "The Targaryen Kings - Aegon I, Aerys I and Maegor I

TheLethalCarrot

Well you you say chapters as well but the source of those chapters is the book

11:34 AM

user image

5 answers, and this is the only reference that can be considered a mention to the answer of the other

> Other than that, George has also written another companion book titled The World of Ice and Fire (2014) in partnership with Elio M. García Jr. and Linda Antonsson which is basically all about the history, cultures, religions and geography of Planetos

That does not make is a duplicate.

TheLethalCarrot

I give up arguing. I think it's a dupe, you don't, we'll have to agree to disagree

A throwaway line does not make a duplicate

You were unsure of it's duplicateness. If it goes to meta, the people will be made aware

TheLethalCarrot

I was sure of its duplicateness I was just asking you lot to see what you thought then before any of you answered thought actually yeah it's a dupe

That message they won't be seeing

TheLethalCarrot

11:38 AM

Shocker

Fake news at it's best

TheLethalCarrot

And I missed this years awards too

What awards?

TheLethalCarrot

The fake news awards

Is this a joke I didn't get

TheLethalCarrot

11:48 AM

theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jan/17/…

> I have done 3 rewatches since season 7 finished and coming up to finishing ADWD on my 4th re read and what has occurred to me is that people are upset/angry about this apparent Disney ending with Jon&Dany surviving and the NK being defeated.

That's a lot of time spent watching/reading

@TheLethalCarrot Holy crap, I didn't think that'd be real...

@TheLethalCarrot It just oozes with greatness.

He's just so stupid it's ridiculous

TheLethalCarrot

Lol I was just about to read that

@Edlothiad Was lunchtime news in the UK haha

@Edlothiad It is but seems like a decent summary

I stopped there cuz fake news awards...

Priorities man

TheLethalCarrot

11:56 AM

Well TL;DR: GRRM makes other characters appear to be the main/important ones when they're not

So we're shocked when they die but the main 5 are still the main 5

Something along those lines anyway

Main 5? Jon, Daenerys, Bran.....?

Arya and Sansa?

Who are the other two

TheLethalCarrot

Jon, Arya, Bran, Daenerys and Tyrion

Tyrion is a main character?

Well there go my hopes for seeing justice for Tywin

TheLethalCarrot

I think Tyrion was noted as surviving in the original draft letters yeah

No idea. I guess they are the ones which outlined Jon and Arya becoming an item?

TheLethalCarrot

11:59 AM

Obviously it could have changed since then

Think so

IMHO only Jon is truly safe

I'm pretty sure Sansa survives from the original draft

@Aegon You can't kill the same character twice, if he does and people say "genius author" I'm rage quitting

@Edlothiad I see your objection and I raise you a Beric Dondarrion

That's completely different, he'd been resurrected 6 times before we meet him again

Resurrected after getting killed 6 times

The he dies twice

then*

Although obviously, he didn't come back after resurrecting Cat

12:02 PM

While I'm aware one can be resurrected multiple times (that's not my issue with it) but having your main character, like literally the mainest of the main characters, die and come back to life twice is Deus Ex

Yeah.... Whatever happened to "Gandalf should have stayed dead, George?"

@Edlothiad 5 times

Lol did he say that?

we met him before the 6th time

@Edlothiad He did

12:03 PM

Quote or I'm not believing you @JAD

@Edlothiad brb

lol

> "How many times?" Lord Beric insisted.
"Six," Thoros said reluctantly. "And each time is harder. You have grown reckless, my lord. Is death so very sweet?"
"Sweet? No, my friend. Not sweet."

Ye Six

that sixth is the time he was killed by the Hound

12:04 PM

Or is that after the Hound outs him

We already met him before that

Ah kk

TheLethalCarrot

Also just looked into it and the 5 surviving characters were only said to have survived Game of Thrones not the entire series

Oui Oui. My mistake

@TheLethalCarrot A Game of Thrones or the Game of Thrones

TheLethalCarrot

I don't know I couldn't be bothered to read the entire thing but I think the draft letter is only about the first book

12:05 PM

scifi.stackexchange.com/review/close/120440

quick quick now children, get closing

TheLethalCarrot

I already did

Though now I'm confused how you think that's a dupe but not the one I closed :P

The question I link as a target, is asking what the wolves are, the answer to which is werewolves. That explicitly states where the wolves are, who they're controlled by and what their doing in the Third Age. The duplicate question asks all of those already answered. The Target in the GOT one, all the answers bar one are tangential information, and the one that has relevant information is a throwaway line, not the answer. The "duplicate" there is not answered by the target

TheLethalCarrot

Lol I just wanted to trigger you

user image

Bad Ed, don't go begging, ignore that. Just enjoy the above^

TheLethalCarrot

I still think it's a dupe but you and Egg are against me on it so I lose

12:14 PM

Did he unhammer?

TheLethalCarrot

Just you and Egg voted though

Aye

Now you've killed it's HNQ run =.=

TheLethalCarrot

Well I don't know if anyone voted to leave closed

Nope

TheLethalCarrot

I suppose only you two saw it then

12:17 PM

B-)

TheLethalCarrot

Like I said I'll respect the reopen but I don't agree with it ;P

@TheLethalCarrot Well I have felt that unless the broader question directly answers the specific one in required depth, it shouldn't be closed in contrast to our meta consensus that Broader questions can be used to close specific ones, ever since I had a discussion about it with Napoleon Wilson over at Movies SE

I mulled over it for a while and then I was convinced by Ed's argument that my answer there, while noting that history of WOIAF comes from TWOIAF, doesn't really specifically answer about Aegon's conquest

@Aegon The site that should not be named.

Ergo not dupes

You misunderstand the policy @Aegon. The policy doesn't state "If it's broader, close it"

TheLethalCarrot

12:20 PM

That's the problem with SE there's usually 3 groups of people 2 on either side of the argument and SE staff/mods who hold to a policy

It still needs to fulfil the requirement that it answers the specific question. It can't just be related and not answer it, otherwise the question remains unanswered, as in this case.

TheLethalCarrot

Like I said I believe it answered it but oh well

@Edlothiad They are alright. I just feel frustrated by the fixation of GoT community there over "Robert won the throne with his warhammer lol"

TheLethalCarrot

Your answer is clearly better for the specific question but I felt it fell under the scope of the dupe

Well it didn't lol.

12:23 PM

@Aegon ?

TheLethalCarrot

@Aegon I summed it up the other day but my biggest problem with it is they don't like sources and most of the answers that get highly upvoted are clearly wrong

@TheLethalCarrot And a bunch of weird policies, and (imo) don't allow a consensus to build in meta or proper discussion, etc.

@Edlothiad "in required depth" is the key. If I had said "It contains the details about Aegon's conquest, reigns of subsequent Targaryen Kings, Civil wars and fall of the dragons" there, would you say it was a valid dupe target as per the meta policy?

Whatever, I'm just gonna get nuked to bits if I continue so...

TheLethalCarrot

Aye that new one is daft but it benefits us sort of though

12:25 PM

@JAD Over Robert's ascension. Had many tiring arguments there explaining his blood right

@Aegon Probably not because it's still just a throw away line

@TheLethalCarrot Except "Don't you dare flag for moderation! That's forbidden"

@Aegon oh, about why him specifically?

Umm ok?

@Edlothiad But it directly answers where can the OP find the detailed account of Conquest

@Aegon This is true, but it's not sufficient detail imo.

12:26 PM

@Edlothiad Ergo, the key.... "Required depth"

TheLethalCarrot

Required depth is clearly subjective though

@JAD I guess it has something to do with Renly saying "Robert won the throne with his hammer"

Those are times where it's tough having a hammer because just smashing it is a bit of a selfish decision rather than letting the community decide, which is why I think Hammers should have an on/off button

That made the show fans think anyone can just usurp the throne if they are strong enough

TheLethalCarrot

@Edlothiad Yeah to be honest I thought you had the choice to vote or to hammer when I did it

Though I probably would have hammered anyway

12:28 PM

People tend to take it personally if Gold badge users hammer their posts

I feel like mods should have that as well, or I need to get my Gold badges before the next election ;P

@Aegon Very.

TheLethalCarrot

By the way I'm 99% sure that that new TLJ question is a dupe but I can't find it yet

Oh found and VTC'd, hopefully you lot agree this time :P

Which one?

TheLethalCarrot

The new TLJ one

Ah TLJ is the last jedi

TheLethalCarrot

12:32 PM

Yus

There's no point in someone flagging a dupe when it's already been VTC'd as a dupe is therE?

I was told not to, because it just busies mods

Although it would get your flag count up theoretically

I don't even think you can flag for that anymore

You can, did it last week

Ok, you can flag, it just doesn't count.

TheLethalCarrot

You guys seen the new ASOIAF calendar announced?

12:49 PM

No, people buy that stuff?

TheLethalCarrot

Apparently

I only saw it cos E&L linked it

Though it's for 2019 so we won't see it till end of next year anyway

@TheLethalCarrot this year?

TheLethalCarrot

Oh yeah end of this year

0

Q: Is the citadel only building in Westeroes dedicated to stargazing?

Astronomy is quite important in Westeros : In the Citadel, maesters who study astronomy and stargazing receive the bronze metal link. It is also important for measuring time. The stars, constellations and planets wanderers are known by free folks, and each of wanderers is linked to an entity o...

game-of-thrones a-song-of-ice-and-fire

@Kepotx I guess the tower from where Maester Luwin used to watch to stars doesn't count?

12:58 PM

The question come to my mind when GRR Martin spoke about Stonehedge, but i ask a more general question because i also accept modern building

the tower itself was not build for stargazing, no ?

@Kepotx pretty sure it was just his living quarters

TheLethalCarrot

The stars, constellations and planets wanderers are known by free folks, and each of wanderers is linked to an entity of the seven.

Are you sure that's true?

The Free Folk believe in the Old Gods

I know they're linked to the Seven but I don't think the Free Folk make that link

know, that's what I quoted

it says that the free folks have different names for the same constelations/planets

the free folk see a thief where the andals see the smith, and so on

TheLethalCarrot

Ahh okay I see what you're getting at now

As with out world the stars/sun/moon/planets are associated with religion in Westeros but I can't see a reference to anyone outside of the Maesters studying Astronomy

I'm not seeing the connection that "Astronomy was important"

Not that that's of any relevance to the question or it's answer.

TheLethalCarrot

1:04 PM

It's important for time keeping and navigation

Sure, but none of those are mentioned in the post, hence "the connection"

Woohoo! My SpaceExploration question is in the HNQ!

(Not that that means it gets any clicks, lol)

TheLethalCarrot

Haha

I click on the SpaceEx questions :ö

0

Q: Is the citadel only building in Westeroes dedicated to stargazing?

Astronomy is quite important in Westeros : In the Citadel, maesters who study astronomy and stargazing receive the bronze metal link. It is also important for measuring time. The stars, constellations and planets wanderers are known by free folks, and each of wanderers is linked to an entity o...

game-of-thrones a-song-of-ice-and-fire

@Edlothiad I suppose that as stargazing is important in culture, there are maybe dedicated buildings

1:09 PM

But I'm not seeing how the points you make show that it is important, till now the only things I see is a Noble boy learning them, and them telling savages when to have sex

TheLethalCarrot

I think star gazing is only useful to the maesters and sailors and only the maesters have need for observatories

ygritte isn't a noble, but still know the name of the constelation

TheLethalCarrot

That's because stars are usually linked to religion

yup

and because there was lot less things to do. No Netflix, no videogames

just stargazing and chill

Ygritte is also not a boy.

Please read what I say before attempting a rebuttal

Sorry if that came across as rude, I was reading questions from a certain stack

1:17 PM

what i mean is just that stargazing is not an activity reserved to nobility

TheLethalCarrot

Yes but astronomy being important is only really true for the maesters

And what I'm saying is you say "astronomy is important as evidenced by the following"

And then go on to make points which really don't make astronomy look particularly important.

so basically, basic astronomy, that can be observed wit naked eye is for common folk and religion, and only advanced astronomy is used by maesters to study seasons and time

so no need to have an observatory other than in the citadel

Yes! Edited! @TheLethalCarrot

TheLethalCarrot

Lol I do my best

1:21 PM

8 more close votes, cmon sheeple

Find some story-ids or something

TheLethalCarrot

If you want another edit I placed the bold in the middle of a word in my answer

Accidentally of course I seem to have a habit of doing it

Don't worry, it's a joke between TLC and I, I always edited his answers and now he started editing mine.

Who was the rider and why send Luwin a lens?

TheLethalCarrot

I didn't look into it to be honest

Catelyn could feel dread stirring inside her once again. "What is it that they would have us see more clearly?"

Oh I haven't got to that bit yet but I think it's the letter from Lysa to Cat

"Lysa says Jon Arryn was murdered."

The letter was hidden in a false bottom of the lens box

1:40 PM

I see.

TheLethalCarrot

It's all in that chapter but it takes forever for Cat to tell anyone

"Who was the rider for Luwin?"

"How did Luwin get Lysa's letter"

yep that confirms it, lol

TheLethalCarrot

I don't know if the riders anyone other than a messenger

Luwin found it cos he thought there was something more to the lens and so went looking for a note

Basically they sent the lens to Luwin as an additional message "see more clearly" but also to hide the note and hoping they'd work out that there was more to it than the lens

@TheLethalCarrot I didn't really care who the rider was specifically that was more of a general who

As in what was he doing there, why as he there, etc.

TheLethalCarrot

Well I think he's just a messenger to deliver the lens, well the message, to Luwin, well Cat

1:45 PM

Ye ye, you answered it all don't worry ha

TheLethalCarrot

It does seem overly complicated to be honest but that's Lysa for you

The answer was "There to get lysa's letter to cat by making Luwin solve the problem"

The whole "With the King's men" confused me

TheLethalCarrot

Oh I didn't see that bit

I guess they either slipped in with the King's party or just weren't noticed coming in

Ye, servants justifying ting

TheLethalCarrot

Aye

Any of you guys think any of the changes in the show made sense?

I think changing Gared to Will does

1:50 PM

How

TheLethalCarrot

Makes more sense that they wouldn't take him seriously

Scrapping LSH, too complex for non-readers

Bringing back Jon Snow, they make more money with Kit.

TheLethalCarrot

Well that's not technically a change until TWOW

@Aegon I mean Jeor essentially goes I'd never expect Gared to do that if I hadn't have seen his head. Oh well!

@TheLethalCarrot He wouldn't be the first hard, good, loyal man to break after years of loyal service

TheLethalCarrot

Yeah but that doesn't mean you ignore it when it happens

1:56 PM

@TheLethalCarrot People need a sense of humour

@TheLethalCarrot When what happens? The breakdown?

TheLethalCarrot

Yeah breakdown/desertion etc

@Edlothiad I got it, I was clarifying for my question :P

@TheLethalCarrot Jeor didn't ignore it. He made a note of it clearly but all the evidence suggests that the man did desert and his life was forfeit

He was miles away from the Wall in Stark lands

What was he doing there when he was supposed to be ranging beyond the wall

TheLethalCarrot

Yeah I'm not disputing any of that but you'd think he'd look into it

His reasons, however good or in this case ridiculous, are irrelevant.

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Jan '1824

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