Yes, but I'm wondering if it can be edited further to satisfy the concerns of those who consider it off-topic.
(I don't have a specific wording in mind, or I would be editing it instead of saying that.)
I don't think it was off-topic, but I think those who did probably considered it to be about Debian with a connection to Ubuntu, rather than about Ubuntu or about both Debian or Ubuntu.
To me, the big connection that makes it so that it's on-topic is that most software packaged for Ubuntu comes from Debian, so the relationship between the universe and multiverse pockets in Ubuntu on the one hand, and the contrib and non-free pockets in Debian on the other, isn't just a way of understanding one OS in terms of the other, but is actually a relationship between the OSes.
But being explicitly about how packages come into Ubuntu from Debian might go too much against the intention in the question, and would change what answers apply to it.
Whether or not it is edited further, it should probably have an answer that explains how packages come into Ubuntu and where they go.
IMO the most interesting thing about the topic is what the question doesn't ask about -- what the relationship is between main in Debian and main in Ubuntu.
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@pomsky After I checked the votes on OpaVote, I think I failed to gain the community's trust. Or I'm lacking somewhere. I'm not criticising someone but the users who have lower participation got more votes.
@Kulfy, I've not interacted with you much, but reading your answers does tell a lot about you ... A lot of users don't vote based on answers, just based on what you write in your nomination. Good luck for the future!
Thank you for stepping up. I wish you the best of luck for the next time. When I saw the results I was confused too. I thought you had more chance. But no worry. maybe next time :)
@BhargavRao I had a question about Natty, separate from that.
Sometimes people post new answers that contain the same advice as existing answers on the same question, that also don't add anything of value (like, they don't explain it better or anything), and that are posted considerably afterwards. We often call such answers "duplicate answers." (I've also seen that term used to mean the same answer posted by the same user on multiple questions, but that's not what I mean.)
We consider it appropriate to flag and delete such answers.
What feedback should be given for such an answer, in cases where, in the absence of the other answers, it would not be considered to have anything wrong with it? I had assumed that they were fp for the purposes of Natty, since identifying the problem always requires looking outside the post. That is, I assumed this situation is similar to the situation of an answer that completely misunderstands the question but is not otherwise identifiable as NAA.
But I now realize my assumption was not necessarily well-founded. After all most SE communities (perhaps all but AU) don't consider the latter scenario NAA. But "duplicate" answers are (as I understand it) flaggable and deletable on other sites too.
Also, discerning that an answer is a "duplicate" requires looking at other answers, but predicting it might not require as deep an understanding of them as it would take to predict that an answer is based on a complete misreading of the question.
This relates to a discussion between @karel and me, in which we had different views about what feedback should be given in such cases and whether such answers should be reported to Natty or not. I figured I'd ask you.
@karel I've tried to summarize both our positions accurately, but there may still be deficiencies in the way I've framed this question. If so, you may want to chime in with additions or corrections.
Yup, your assumption was correct. Natty can't be useful to detect duplicate answers. Natty looks at just the post and the question to judge whether it's NAA or not. (We have another bot on SO to do something similar to that). A "fp" reply to such reports by Natty is the correct one (and yep, they shouldn't be reported). Duplicate answers are flaggable on SO as well, but we use the custom moderator flag for those.
@EliahKagan To make this discussion easier to follow I'll repeat some of what I posted before. When I encounter a duplicate answer when reviewing low quality posts at Stack Overflow I comment below the answer linking to the duplicate answer to the same question, click Recommend deletion, and (optionally) flag the duplicate answer as NAA.
Essentially consider Natty as a NAA detector. If a report isn't flaggable as NAA, then it is a fp.
@karel, you should be flagging those answers using the custom flag ... and also looking at replies to your flags ;)
I am kinda a bad moderator in certain cases, I feel that if a post needs to be deleted, then no matter what you flag it as, I'll delete the answer, but I'll add a reply stating that you should not be using that flag type. Other moderators don't do this.
@BhargavRao In order to improve my accuracy I check back on every review that I do in order to look at the reviews of the other reviewers. I won't use the NAA flag anymore to flag low quality answers that I have also reviewed.
I think one thing that can create confusion is that some answers that get comments saying they're duplicate answers are NAA for other reasons. For example, sometimes an answer gets a comment saying it's a duplicate answer (based on the idea that it was an attempt to provide a separate answer), but it's really an attempt to comment on the earlier answer to say it worked.
Yes, I mean duplicate answers. I've also been instructed by a moderator at Ask Ubuntu to flag all duplicate answers as NAA and I've never had any problems with commenting and flagging duplicate answers as NAA at Ask Ubuntu.
The reason why I don't personally like flagging duplicate answers as NAA is because it might end up as a review audit, where the reviewer would not have context about the other post, or even the comment underneath the post stating that it is a duplicate.
I had wondered if the broader notion of NAA we use here on Ask Ubuntu also encompasses duplicate answers. I think it doesn't, since this answer, which gives some site-specific advice (it covers the case of answering something totally different from what was asked being NAA), advises to custom-flag duplicate answers.
(OTOH, that answer hasn't been updated in a while. For example, I think some of the advice and explanations relating to spam could use an update, at least in terms of which points it emphasizes as important.)
@BhargavRao I think a lot of NAA flags on Ask Ubuntu are handled before any mod gets to them, through LQP reviews + delete votes from 20k users (sometimes after learning of the posts from Natty, or through other users' reports to Natty, in this room).
Mods on SO used to handle almost twice what the community used to handle, before they reduced the number of reviews needed in LQPQ to 4. meta.stackoverflow.com/a/378422/4099593
I do wish the percentage handled by lower rep users' reviews in Ask Ubuntu's LQP queue were higher. It's rare, these days, that I see an answer deleted by six Recommend Deletion reviews. Part of this is that there are more engaged high-rep users than in the past, and part of it is that a lot of NAA posts get flags and delete votes from users who learn of them in this room via Natty--both of which are good.
But I think part of it is that there are fewer engaged lower-rep reviewers than there used to be. Probably not worth it to decrease the threshold from 6 to 4 on our site, though.
50% of chat users currently in this room are mods! :)
I'm not totally sure what's best to do there; if they indicated a desire to upgrade, I'd post an expanded version of my comment as an answer. As it is, voted to dupe it to the canonical question and posted a comment identifying the ways the OP has not fully followed the advice given there.
Based on the answers of the other one, it seems like maybe it was just incorrectly duped and should be reopened.
Does the OP mean they ran pip3 uninstall virutalenv as root (such as with sudo)?
Even if so, it seems to me that the question is not asking the same thing as
> * how do I identify all Python packages that have been erroneously installed on the system (that is, Python packages that appear in the `pip freeze` list, but were not installed with `apt-get`)? * how do I remove them?
and that any overlap in the answers is incidental (and fairly small).
I was the last one to close vote it as dupe. The last line of the accepted answer on dupe target contains the command. Moreover, it seems sudo is no longer required to install pip3 packages at least in 20.04.
It doesn't contain the command they used. Leaving aside the issue of whether sudo is used or not, and even if one imagines the command it contains to specify a single package of the correct name, it's still part of advice for finding and removing multiple packages. Also, pip and pip3 are not equivalent on all Ubuntu systems (and currently are not equivalent on most, and are not equivalent on any system for which the dupe target's accepted answer is correct, since it's about Python 2).
I've commented. I'll wait a short time before hammering it back open, in case I'm missing something.
What system's files are being edited? It looks to me like the OP is running Ubuntu in a VirtualBox virtual machine, and building another (non-Ubuntu) OS in the virtual machine, with the intention of being able to boot it in the virtual machine by adding an entry to it in the GRUB menu maintained by the Ubuntu system (i.e., the Ubuntu-provided GRUB whose configuration files are in the Ubuntu system). If that is the case, then the question is on-topic, but perhaps I'm misunderstanding it.
@SasukeUchiha If that's what they mean by "data storage"--which it seems to be--then yes. I believe we have a question about how to install with a separate /home partition.
@pomsky Exactly. And see the lead this time. More experience (regarding the election) = more chance. BTW, as for advertising, adding a link to here may help voters see what you are doing behind the scenes
@pomsky Well yeah but the votes were very close to that of Byte. But this time the person who has merely 60-70 edits and flags and ~150 reviews got more votes. Again I'm not criticising anyone. There's still something I'm missing.
you remembered correctly. There was certainly a time in the past when it did not work. I would bet that it didn't work until the change to CommonMark (although there is a possibility I have been editing it for months without noticing that it was working fine).
@SasukeUchiha The main part looks good to me. I've made an edit. You may want to re-edit (or roll back) if you don't like the changes or want to make further changes. I'm not sure about the part at the end, though. Those don't seem like instructions to move /home to a separate partition.
@pomsky Yeah, it does not look good, because it doesn't seem like those questions ever qualified for protection. There's enough different users who have protected questions with zero deleted answers that I don't want to insist that the official guidance is the only situation where a question should be protected. (Though in my personal view, aside from very temporary protections under very unusual circumstances, it is.)
Also, if I recall correctly, the guidance back then was worded somewhat more strictly. For one, or even a few, questions that the same user both answers and protects for no apparent reason, there could have been something unusual that was not publicly documented; such questions should still be unprotected (going by the official guidance there, and also common sense), but it wouldn't necessarily have been wrong to protect it.
For this volume of questions, though, that's extremely implausible. This was a pattern of misuse of the protection feature, though I don't want to conclude that it was deliberate abuse. I had unprotected some of those before. I've unprotected some more now. The ones like this that I unprotected several days ago, as well as all but one that I just unprotected, had zero deleted answers (one today had one deleted answer).
It might be worthwhile to see if the pattern extends to other protected questions with one or more deleted answers, though the more deleted answers, the grayer an area it becomes. For the small amount I've looked at, I haven't seen anything that I think needs a mod flag to be raised, but if you find such a pattern (for any user) that continues into the present, then you may want to raise such a flag.
@Zanna They should still be edited, because only new and newly revised posts render it as a numbered list. However, the edit needn't change the notation anymore. It can just fix whatever else needs improvement (even if tiny) and the numbered lists will come along for the ride.
@pomsky Aren't these situations where the better thing to do is (as you commented on the new one) to post a new answer?
I agree that this looks like a harmful continuing pattern, but I'm not sure it is self-serving, either in intent or effect, since posting an answer instead of voting to dupe would likely generate more rep.
@pomsky Investing my 2 cents here. "bullcrap" and " Do you really think changing DE would magically fix that?" may sound rude. IMO "If you think if changing DE is a suitable solution, then post an answer or leave a comment with the link with justifications" is just more than enough.
@pomsky You may like to invite them to the chat (maybe here or the general room or create a new room) and explain the situation to them. One to one conversation in chat is, IMO, constructive.
In comments they may think that you are targeting them in some way. Maybe they have taken your credit or something like that.
If you need, I'll join the chat. And would try to explain the situation.
Though I think removing the first sentence may be enough. I'm not sure how the end will be received; I see the beginning as the main issue, as it sets the tone and prepares the reader for how to understand the rest of the comment. I could be wrong about this.
The issue is not just--or, from my perspective, mostly--to avoid rudeness, but that the first sentence does not make the comment any stronger. The comment is a good point, strongly stated, without that lede.
@EliahKagan Well he doesn't ask for how to mount /home. I posted a link on how to do that. He is asking how to store data in the HDD. So I put how to set up automount with Disks as he probably won't like to edit fstab yet
@EliahKagan Your edit is way better. I'll leave it as it is. Thanks for the help
What happened. The comments are deleted so it makes no sense to me. As it is now, to a third party, it looks like @pomsky is just being rude. You might want to change the comment
@Kulfy I wouldn't say they're confrontational or absolutely unreasonable, but expect the same kind of unreasonable behaviour based on their bias, even quite petty sometimes. If you follow their posts and comments, you would see the phrase "GNOME sHell" [sic] quite often.
@Kulfy I agree. I too (and many people who have visited this chat at some point or has collaborated with you somehow) was surprised to see the number of votes. Well there is nothing to do about that now. Just try again and good luck for next time
Are VLQ (link only) are also replied as tp to natty?
also, if the post gets edited in any way at all (the system doesn't know what the edit did...) that resolves the flag as helpful, and so it disappears from review, and it might still be deleteable
@Zanna I noticed you edit old posts quite a bit, AFAIK most of these have been inactive for a few years. Is this normal to be editing these inactive posts on AU? Just asking since on other SE sites where I participate that can be frowned upon :)
@Daniil I'm not sure if there are sites that have that as an actual policy, or just that it is a sentiment held by some people. But it strikes me as being incompatible with the main purpose of any SE site, which is to "to build a library of detailed answers" about a topic. If there are topics where it truly is not worthwhile to maintain old content, SE sites about those topics should probably not exist.
(I am more sympathetic, however, to the idea that it is not, in and of itself, valuable to close and delete old posts that qualify for it.)
which of the two it is?
