Raiders of the Lost Downboat

1:41 AM

@Natty fp

@EliahKagan I meant I'll look at your query and see if I can make it into something we can work on systematically, because it's super awkward to collaborate on fixing posts from a query directly... need something like etherpad

Eliah Kagan

At the time of that message, I believe my query wasn't good anyway. I hadn't added the cases for the higher-indexed character positions.

Zanna

But you have improved it

Eliah Kagan

Yes, I believe it's usable now. Absurd, but usable. :)

Zanna

I was lamenting that you already started editing it, because those posts you edited are now false positives :P

@EliahKagan Awesome work :D

Eliah Kagan

1:51 AM

:)

I'm fine with using a real-time editing tool like Etherpad if you like.

@Zanna Oh. Well, fortunately, I made the mistake of editing the least recently active posts first. Those are the least important to edit, for this particular problem, I think. If you sort it by activity, most recent first, you shouldn't run up against any edits I've done.

That doesn't solve the problem of coordination moving forward, but it does mean my edits so far shouldn't cause confusion.

Zanna

I ran it and scrolled down a large handful and the first post I clicked was edited by you 4 hours ago XD

Eliah Kagan

Oh, SEDE must've gotten its fortnightly update since my edits then, I guess.

Zanna

Does etherpad still exist? If not, what else is there?

Using a Google sheet is ok, better than trying to use the query page

Eliah Kagan

Is Trello not efficient enough for this?

Can a CSV be imported as Trello cards?

I'm not sure if that's a good idea or not but I figure you'd know.

Zanna

I mean, even if I plan to fix the whole lot myself, I wouldn't use the query directly as it's too annoying

Eliah Kagan

1:58 AM

Oh.

Zanna

Trello us way too many clicks

@EliahKagan I know how to do it but it's a slow process

Eliah Kagan

Sounds not suitable for this then.

Zanna

Trello works great when the post requires discussion and collaboration

If they just need editing, it's way too much unnecessary overhead

Eliah Kagan

@Zanna I've done stuff directly from query output. My browser keeps track of which posts I've visited because I'm unlikely to have visited the posts by those plain URLs, even if I've viewed them before. Idk if that works for you, though. Most of the edits so far have been fairly quick and it might not require multiple people -- I might just be able to go through a whole bunch of them over a short period of time eachish day.

But I think putting it into a form where it's easy to see what's been done may be a good idea anyway, since that may help in evaluating whether or not this query is actually achieving what we hope it is. Also, even though I don't think the effort is overwhelming, it may be better to have at least two people work on it. More fun, at least.

Zanna

Oops sorry

Eliah Kagan

2:04 AM

@Zanna The only real-time collaborative editing I've had a need for so far is editing code. For that I've used Visual Studio Live Share. (It's cross-platform, though the Live Share extension itself is closed source.) I'd be comfortable using that for this, and I know how to use it, but it might be overkill compared to other stuff. I don't know what tools exist and are good for real-time collaborative editing in a general setting.

Zanna

@EliahKagan At some point just scrolling down becomes too annoying hahaha

Eliah Kagan

etherpad.org seems to exist still. I don't know what public instances of it there are.

Zanna

yes :)

working on it

Natty

[ Natty | Sentinel ] qt ODA File Converter don't work on latest Ubuntu 20.04 By: Duster 4.5;

Natty

2:24 AM

[ Natty | Sentinel ] android-sdk Sdk is missing error android studio By: kamran khan 3.5;

Zanna

2:42 AM

etherpad.snopyta.org/p/fence

the way I would normally use this is just delete the line after you've fixed it, because we can always recover anything lost by running the query again

possibility of network problems

if you don't like it, no worries

I have linked to the revisions page because that works for questions and answers (I am text processing the csv to construct the link) and it shows the problem immediately

I edited the query to order results by LastActivityDate DESC

I have to go buy coconut and stuff now haha

Eliah Kagan

k, ttyl

It's taking a long time to load. I might try a different browser.

Ah, nm, here we are!

What order are these in? (You needn't answer now, I know you're going afk.)

Zanna

they should be ordered by last activity date with most recently active first

but, the data is always old of course

I sampled a bit and it seemed to be working like that

I thought that order was what you wanted, but I can very easily adjust it

Eliah Kagan

Yes, it is. Thanks!

Zanna

:) :)

Eliah Kagan

3:55 AM

no longer needed

@Natty report askubuntu.com/a/1245204/22949

Natty

[ Natty | Sentinel ] Link to Post Low Length; Low Rep; Unregistered User; 1.0;

Eliah Kagan

4:13 AM

no repro

not unclear

Eliah Kagan

4:32 AM

Should the linked pastebin text go inline in this question?

Is this edit correct? It seems to me that the goal is to clone one partition onto another, overwriting whatever was there.

SmokeDetector

4:48 AM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Pattern-matching website in body (97): removing ubuntu and re-installing windows 10 by DataLore on askubuntu.com

Zanna

5:19 AM

@EliahKagan I think so

Natty

6:40 AM

[ Natty | Sentinel ] 18.04 18.04 - Failing to shutdown/power off on AMD Ryzen CPUs By: bee 7.5;

Some Error Occurred on this post

SmokeDetector

8:59 AM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Potentially bad keyword in answer, blacklisted user (72): Looking for qt-at-spi for ubuntu 20.04 by Yacyn CHERRADI on askubuntu.com

SmokeDetector

9:19 AM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Few unique characters in answer, repeating characters in answer (168): How to start MongoDB server on system start? by gaanja on askubuntu.com

Natty

[ Natty | Sentinel ] mongodb How to start MongoDB server on system start? By: gaanja 6.0;

Natty

9:32 AM

[ Natty | Sentinel ] cpu Disabling Intel Turbo Boost in ubuntu By: Costantino Syfantos 4.5;

SmokeDetector

9:49 AM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Potentially bad keyword in answer, blacklisted user (72): How to exclude package from apt --fix-broken install (Don't tag it as a duplicate) by Yacyn CHERRADI on askubuntu.com

pomsky

10:19 AM

@EliahKagan It's no longer unclear, OP replied with details that clear the confusion in comments and I edited the question to integrate it.

Natty

10:40 AM

[ Natty | Sentinel ] vpn Network manager doesn't remember login (username) - 2019 By: AlpaY 6.0;

Natty

11:29 AM

[ Natty | Sentinel ] video Built-in Webcam not detected, also no /dev/video* in Ubuntu 20.04 and 18.04 By: Ayala Levinger 4.0;

Natty

12:16 PM

[ Natty | Sentinel ] apt Is apt full-upgrade safe? By: It's me 3.5;

SmokeDetector

12:30 PM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad ns for domain in body, bad keyword in body, bad keyword in title, blacklisted website in body, link at end of body, +4 more (590): Best Pills for Weight Loss by Helen DMitchell on askubuntu.com

Natty

[ Natty | Sentinel ] cd xfburn fails: Burn run failed! By: Jaap Vegter 5.5;

Natty

1:33 PM

[ Natty | Sentinel ] nomachine 19.10 + Nomachine nxclient_3.5.0-7_amd64.deb By: fbgencer 4.0;

[ Natty | Sentinel ] asus Fingerprint Sensor not working (Ubuntu 20.04) By: ExquisitE 5.5;

[ Natty | Sentinel ] ssd SSD temperature sensor readout with hddtemp By: Ognjen Vučurević 4.5;

Natty

2:08 PM

[ Natty | Sentinel ] software-installation Ubuntu software - Error message By: Tademos 5.0;

Zanna

is this an answer?

jokerdino

Have the same problem?

Still no answer to the question, and you have the same problem? Help us find a solution by researching the problem, then contribute the results of your research and anything additional you’ve tried as a **partial answer**. That way, even if we can’t figure it out, the next person has more to go on. You can also vote up the question or set a bounty on it so the question gets more attention.

It counts as a partial answer, which we don't accept as answers I feel.

Copy pasted from How do I write a good answer?.

Zanna

15

Q: Me-too post? Or partial answer?

Where do we draw the line between "I'm having the same problem, too" posts and partial answers? This answer and its comments are what have motivated me to ask this. But I'm hoping for a general answer to this question, too, if it's reasonable to have one. As Zanna pointed out, our official help...

jokerdino

Yes, thank you.

the question we are discussing is about 'how to troubleshoot the problem', which I think could be answered from the bugzilla link provided in that answer.

Zanna

I am trying to read that bugzilla post

jokerdino

2:19 PM

At least I think there is potential in that answer.

Zanna

seems the bug is not fixed

but activity on the thread reduced, not many posts in 2020

the people affected were trying patches, but didn't see anything working

no workaround

the issue started in 4 series kernel and still going up to 5.6

@jokerdino it does look like probably the same bug

Natty

2:38 PM

[ Natty | Sentinel ] backup Errors with "Back in Time" By: Rafael Domínguez Losada 3.5;

Eliah Kagan

3:09 PM

@Natty tp But maybe it's worth translating.

@Natty tp

What?

@Natty fp The version of the answer Natty saw was wildly wrong (the current revision is less bad) but still not NAA.

Do we have something for that question? If it can't be closed as a duplicate, then a better answer should be posted, but I feel like this must have been covered before.

@Natty tp

@pomsky Thanks, close vote retracted.

Eliah Kagan

3:44 PM

no improvement, edits should remove that sort of text, not add it

no improvement

@Natty tp

I think this answer is so general that it is not really addressing the question that was asked and should be considered NAA.

no repro, see answer

dupe

NAA given what the question is asking

VLQ

Kulfy

4:21 PM

Since "favorites" are now "bookmarks", should this question be edited to reflect the same? I believe this is an important meta question since is it tagged with "faq".

Thoughts?

codeonion

Hi

pomsky

4:43 PM

@Kulfy I think it needs to be updated.

unclear, OP refused to clarify thrice after being asked by three different users (see comments)

^ Instead they left very unhelpful comments like:

My question explains everything already — Arnold Rimmer May 29 at 19:07

unclear

unclear / opinuon-based, it solely depends on what's causing those "major issues"

looks quite unclear / opinion-based to me

unclear

dupe

it's probably better to close this as unclear or no-repro, it seems OP is not keen on posting a self-answer. I don't completely understand their solution, but it seems they missed some trivial step previously. (cc @Kulfy)

Natty

[ Natty | Sentinel ] boot After shutting off Ubuntu, my computer doesn't turn off completely, I must use the power button. Sometines ubuntu doesn't start By: MikeScotty 5.0;

[ Natty | Sentinel ] command-line How to list a Windows process on Ubuntu Terminal in WSL By: JerryB 4.5;

pomsky

Not useful / misplaced answer, akin to two other (deleted) answers. Unfortunately had an upvote.

deletable, not useful answer

looks like OT - Chrome OS

deletable, OT - EoL, OP's self-answer essentially says use ESM

deletable

deletable, not a useful signpost

deletable

deletable, reposted by OP

deletable

deletable, awfully unclear. Not sure how it got two upvotes. At least downvote it to a non-positive score, please.

deletable, based on a wrong presumption/info

deletable, it was very unclear to begin with and still quite unclear

^ Moreover, the accepted answer is not consistent with this comment by OP, probably OP accepted due to their naivety as an user here. Looks OP actually followed the suggestion from this comment.

@pomsky Oops, this is the correct link to the question

deletable

Eliah Kagan

5:32 PM

@Natty report askubuntu.com/a/1246932/22949

Natty

@EliahKagan Post already reported

Eliah Kagan

5:54 PM

@Natty report askubuntu.com/a/1244264/22949

Natty

[ Natty | Sentinel ] Link to Post Contains ?; Low Length; No Code Block; Low Rep; Self Answer; -1.0;

Kulfy

@pomsky I asked OP to write an answer since I'm not sure what "erlauben" mean.

wrong canned comment

Do they really see the replies to their canned comments? I have to raise flags to get their comment deleted even after pinging them.

Eliah Kagan

unclear

@Kulfy @-replies to comments posted automatically through the LQP review queue or when voting to close a question as a duplicate do produce notifications, yes. They should've seen them. Of course, there's plenty of reasons someone might not pay attention to, or reply to / act on, all notifications.

Kulfy

6:12 PM

@pomsky I accidentally voted to delete without reading the answer. But IMO it's worth keeping and not specific to release. I have voted to undelete and will vote to reopen if it gets undeleted.

The confusion is predictable and may happen to future visitors too

Eliah Kagan

Should I have corrected in the questionable comparison to Windows shortcuts in this answer? My goal in editing was to improve it only in ways that wouldn't conflict with the author's intent.

Kulfy

@EliahKagan Yeah but I never saw them taking action on their canned comments.

Eliah Kagan

no longer needed, not really useful for that question

@Kulfy I haven't looked into this at all, but speaking generally, sometimes it doesn't occur to people to remove their comments, sometimes people don't know that it's considered appropriate to remove comments when obsolete, occasionally people don't know comments can be self-deleted, occasionally people have trouble self-deleting comments because they're on mobile and don't know how to use the interface...

...often people who agree with criticisms of their comments think it might be better to keep the comments because of the value provided to the community by the criticism (which i sometimes a good call, though rarely for these kinds of meta-comments)...

...sometimes people don't bother to remove comments that aren't useful because they figure there's no need to engage further (which is true, in the sense that some forms of engagement are counterproductive but also in the sense that comments can be removed by flagging) and sometimes people are skeptical of such advice given about their canned comments.

Regarding that last point, I think it's valuable to include links to substantiate one's critiques... though in this case, it's quite obvious that the comment was selected based on not actually checking whether or not it was answering the question.

Still, it seems likely that the comment was posted based on the incorrect belief that short answers should be comments instead combined with the incorrect belief that review comments are a way of voting on a post. We have highly upvoted, widely shared meta posts addressing both those misconceptions.

Also, when people give advice to post a comment and the advice is wrong, usually this can be demonstrated by the official network-wide guidance about how what comments are for.

As for the meta posts I was thinking of, those are:

83

Q: Please stop posting half answers and dumb advice as comments

Ok so I've spent a few days doing hardcore cleaning and we have a problem with comments and people misusing them. People who are too lazy to write a real answer so they write a half finished one that doesn't work or is just some commands out of context. This hurts the site because they're usua...

discussion comments

That was originally directed mainly toward people posting the comments, but it is of at least as great relevance to people who advise others to post such things as comments.

46

Q: PSA: When reviewing, don't post duplicate (and near-duplicate) comments!

As jrg♦ said (pinned in main chat): Hey folks who use "canned" comments: If you see one thats already there that expresses the same general idea, don't add another one. Thanks. :) This has been happening a lot lately, and I'm pretty sure it's mainly because many people are not using the new...

discussion faq review comments

As for that one, when I wrote it, it was about the problem of numerous canned comments on the same posts (back then, a subsequent reviewer selecting the same review comment caused another one to be posted rather than the exiting one to be upticked). But it also addresses what review comments are actually for.

I've found that many reviewers, especially when first starting out reviewing, are actually unaware that review comments consist of them personally giving advice to people, and select review comments that say things they would never actually write because they know it's not accurate enough.

@EliahKagan * about what comments are for

pomsky

6:46 PM

@Kulfy It's gone, you can now remove your reply too.

@Kulfy In that case the question needs a major edit imo. OP claimed it was installed using apt even after being asked and kinda dismissed this aspect: "the install is not an issue... The discrepancy is intriguing and I'm simply curious.". After the helpful answer was posted OP had the opportunity to edit their post, but they didn't though.

Eliah Kagan

@Natty report askubuntu.com/a/1246948/22949

Natty

[ Natty | Sentinel ] Link to Post Low Length; No Code Block; Low Rep; 2.5;

Eliah Kagan

unclear

@Natty report askubuntu.com/a/1246960/22949

Natty

[ Natty | Sentinel ] Link to Post Contains ?; Low Length; No Code Block; Low Rep; 3.0;

Eliah Kagan

7:04 PM

I don't agree with the deletion of this answer. The original version was deeply wrong, but then it was radically edited by its author (which was before two of the delete votes) and since then it's been largely correct. It's inadequate to fully address the issue (so I posted an answer), but "it can break something from time to time because it sometimes removes packages" and "The recommened way to not break things is to just use the GUI" are correct.

I've done a small edit to correct a confusion between the update and upgrade actions and voted to undelete it.

I suppose one could take issue with the wording about the GUI thing. But desktop Ubuntu systems really are designed to notify the user of updates and encourage the user to use the GUI tools. Regarding some of the criticisms in comments, they do have some merit... but the GUI tools also are not frontends for the apt command, and their behavior is not exactly equivalent to any simple combination of apt or apt-get actions.

(Though, aside from the case of phased updates, which likely is relevant to the OP's situation, routine use of the Software Updater is reasonably approximated by the update action, followed by the upgrade action, with --with-new-pkgs if apt-get is used rather than apt.)

Natty

7:30 PM

[ Natty | Sentinel ] docker Can't install Docker By: Johannes Watzl 6.5;

Eliah Kagan

@Natty tp

Natty

11:04 PM

[ Natty | Sentinel ] touchpad touchpad stops moving after some period of properly working By: Nandete82 3.5;

Natty

11:56 PM

[ Natty | Sentinel ] boot How to restore the default Ubuntu 20.04 boot screen logo? By: Dominic Desbiens 3.5;