Vedanta and Philosophy

1:00 PM

@KeshavSrinivasan yes, Purna or Ansha is different thing.

@Pandya I'm not sure whether all ten of the Dashavatara are non-Avesha Avatara. Certainly Rama and Krishna are non-Avesha Avataras. But I've heard claims that Parashurama was an Avesha Avatara. I'm not sure whether that's true or not.

Pandya

@KeshavSrinivasan oh! ok. Let's take only Rama and Krishna, then they're non-Avesha Avatars.

@KeshavSrinivasan And which scripture mention/describe these types i.e Avesha & non-Avesha?

Keshav Srinivasan

@Pandya It's mentioned in Pancharatra Agamas.

@Pandya By the way, Chaitanya Mahaprabhu says that the Sanatkumaras, Narada, Prithu, and Parashurama are all Avesha Avataras: vedabase.com/en/cc/madhya/20/369

Pandya

@KeshavSrinivasan ok. Btw, Advaitin would be disagree with such type since that classification may not be possible according to Advaita think.

Keshav Srinivasan

@Pandya Sivananda accepts the notion of Avesha Avataras: dlshq.org/religions/avatara.htm

@Pandya Sorry, wrong link. Look at this one: sivanandaonline.org/public_html/…

Pandya

1:13 PM

@KeshavSrinivasan He only mentions Purna & Ansha Avatars in "Kind of Avatars"

@KeshavSrinivasan oh! ok.

Lakshmi Narayanan

@KeshavSrinivasan he is clubbing the two categorisations!

Keshav Srinivasan

@LakshmiNarayanan Haha yeah, he's making Avesha a third category rather than a completely separate distinction.

Pandya

@KeshavSrinivasan He is only mentioning Avesha or giving example also? What's Pseudo Avatar?

Keshav Srinivasan

@Pandya He just mentions it, he doesn't give any examples. Pseudo-avatar means someone falsely claiming to be an incarnation.

Krishn Shweta

@Aghori @TheDestroyer @RakeshJoshi @SS @SwiftPushkar @Pandya @AnkitSharma I'm sorry. I really didn't thought of making "fake feminism" statement by this.

6 hours ago, by Krishn Shweta

So, let men stop working. Why are saying women to give up?

Lakshmi Narayanan

1:23 PM

@KeshavSrinivasan Avesha Avatara = JivAtma is in a ParamAtma sandwich! :D

Keshav Srinivasan

@LakshmiNarayanan Haha, that's one way to put it.

Rakesh Joshi

no one should give up anything ... all have their career and income to look after.

SwiftPushkar

@RakeshJoshi - I don't think "Why does gita have gender & cast discrimination verses" is as valid heading , it just looks though but they didn't mean gender & cast discrimination, Nobody's making such a meaning of these verses.

S S

@KrishnShweta I didn't know that you've said it. I didn't follow the chat.

Rakesh Joshi

@SwiftPushkar i have clearly mentioned sankara bhashya ... it says who are papayonis .. now papayoni is something great as per you?

Ankit Sharma

1:28 PM

@KrishnShweta I joined way late and had issue with some other statements

Pandya

@KeshavSrinivasan does Purna & Amsha are non-Avesha?

SwiftPushkar

@RakeshJoshi - But how are you so sure that those are gender & cast discrimination verses ? It may not be , may be they are conveying some other message.How you came to that conclusion ,so confidently?

Rakesh Joshi

@SwiftPushkar ok i have edited the question.. but have u gone through its sankara bhashya?

Lakshmi Narayanan

@Pandya Not necessary na, Parashurama is both Amsha and Avesha..

Pandya

It's obvious that Purna Avatar can only be non-Avesha but Ansha Avatar may be Avesha & non-Avesha right? @KeshavSrinivasan

SwiftPushkar

1:34 PM

@RakeshJoshi - ok , 👍 No i have yet to ,go through shankar Bhashya of BG , currently reading Upanishad & BS , and other books related to Q&Answers , but will read in some time , Although i have read BG translation of Iskon , but haven't got time to read about other's.

Rakesh Joshi

@SwiftPushkar i have posted the sankara bhasya along with the verses in the question itself.

Pandya

@SwiftPushkar so, You've started BS. Excellent.

SwiftPushkar

@Pandya - Yeah , Slowly , & even preparing one answer from BS , looking for other ref.of same question 😊👍👍💐

Pandya

"and other books related to Q&Answers" Haha

@SwiftPushkar you'll enjoy in the end of BS!

SwiftPushkar

@Pandya - Yeah , I will post something from BS in , Quotes & info. Room here 😊

Pandya

1:44 PM

@LakshmiNarayanan I forgot; what about your pilot experiment?

@LakshmiNarayanan Haha! see some green & yellow sandwiches!

Vishal prabhu lawande

@KeshavSrinivasan hi

Pls check swamijis answer here

7

Q: How did Advaitins Defend Attributeless brahman from Ramanuja's arguments?

As per Advaita Vedanta of Adi Shankara, The Supreme reality i.e. Brahman is without any attributes. Advaita philosophy says that we perceive the world only owing to maya(ignorance).i.e. This world does not exists. But only Brahma exists who is non-dual. This is called AjatVada. So Advaita makes...

Keshav Srinivasan

@Pandya Yeah, an Amshaa Avatara can either be Avesha or non-Avesha.

Vishal prabhu lawande

What do u feel. Are the arguments valid?

I read tgat book 2dy. Bt i dnt hv much background of ramanujacharya philosophy

Pandya

@Vishalprabhulawande Hi! I think we can ask many questions like "How did Advaitins defend ....... from Ramanujacharyas argument/interpretation?" Because Ramanujacharya came later and he tried to prove Advaita interpretation wrong. Haha

Vishal prabhu lawande

@KeshavSrinivasan ramanujas arguments against doctrine of maya nd advaitin answers r given in this book. From page 358

@Pandya hi. Ya true. But what im intrstd here is in, whether ramanuja actually misundstud mayavad

@KeshavSrinivasan book critical survey of indian philosophy

Pandya

2:00 PM

Btw, I had posted related question:

6

Q: What are the views of Vishishtadvaita on Nirguna Brahman?

According to Advaita, Para Brahman (परब्रह्म) is Nirguna Brahman (निर्गुण ब्रह्म)[1] [2] but I've found that Vishishtadvaitis don't believe in Nirguna Brahman. So, let me ask: What are the views of Vishishtadvaita on Nirguna Brahman? If Vishsitadvaita do not believe in Nirguna Brahman, then ...

brahman vishishtadvaita ramanuja

Vishal prabhu lawande

ya Ramanuja believes that Brahman has this matter and souls for His body and thus in relation to God they are His attributes. So He becomes Saguna @Pandya

Ramanuja's philosophy is called Brahma-Parinamvad

i.e. He believes that Brahman actually transforms into this world.

where as Advaita foloows Brahma-VivartaVada i.e. Brahman appears to have transformed. But actually there is no real transformation

Pandya

@Vishalprabhulawande Yes, I have shared one Q/A on Vivarta & Ajatavada

Keshav Srinivasan

@Vishalprabhulawande No, Ramanujacharya and Vedanta Desikan aren't mischaracterizing Advaita. We have to keep in mind that in Advaita there are two perspectives, the perspective of a person living under Maya and perspective of a person who has Jnana. Ramanujacharya and Vedanta Desikan are keeping in mind that distinction between those two perspectives and their relationship when they criticize Advaita.

Pandya

@Vishalprabhulawande Btw, Are you an Advaitin? Have you read Gaudapada Karika on Mandukya Upanishad?

Keshav Srinivasan

@Vishalprabhulawande Sharma misunderstands their criticism because he's misinterpreting their criticism as applying to the relative perspective, i.e. the perspective of someone living under Maya, and he's hardly addressing the absolute perpective, i.e. the perspective of someone who has Jnana.

Lakshmi Narayanan

2:11 PM

@Pandya hehe

@Pandya How can i invite people to start if they won't comment in their names? That's why it's stuck :(

Vishal prabhu lawande

@KeshavSrinivasan to me it appears that ramanuja speaks from the standpoint of Vyavahar. He doesnt take into account the standpoint of Paramartha when he criticises Advaita. Please correct me if Ive got it wrong

@Pandya ima street dog :D just searching for my master. I do not know where i belong :)

Pandya

@LakshmiNarayanan "Hehe" is word had been used by @Tezz long ago, he has also adopted now "Haha" from @KeshavSrinivasan Haha

Keshav Srinivasan

@Vishalprabhulawande No, Ramanujacharya does take into account the standpoint of Paramartha, but Sharma incorrectly thinks that Ramanujacharya does not. In fact Ramanujacharya's criticism is based on his cognizance of the relationship between the two.

SwiftPushkar

6

Q: What are all doctrines or philosophies discussed in Brahma Sutra?

Brahma Sutras (also known as Vedanta Sutras) have very profound significance in Vedanta Darshan. They systematize and summarize the spiritual and philosophical teaching of Upanishads. It is considered as Nyaya (Yukti or logic) Prasthana in Prasthanatrayi of Vedanta. Badarayana (Vedavyasa) has di...

philosophy vedanta brahma-sutras

Lakshmi Narayanan

@Pandya lulz! Hehe and Haha are both coolcool na

Pandya

2:16 PM

@LakshmiNarayanan I was just joking ~~lol~~ hehe.

SwiftPushkar

@KeshavSrinivasan - I think BS link your question , is taking us to same querry.Pls.do check.😊👍BTW grt answer , must have took lot of time 💐

Lakshmi Narayanan

@Pandya yes yes

S S

@LakshmiNarayanan Professor! We can't understand advanced vocabulary like "lulz".

Keshav Srinivasan

@Vishalprabhulawande That's the whole point of the snake and rope thing. Ramanujacharya's argument is that if in the Vyavaraha standpoint a chair is seen, then whatever really exists in the Paramartha standpoint must have a chair-like quality.

SwiftPushkar

@LakshmiNarayanan - lol , congratulations , you have just started joking , its nice to see that , keep it up 😊😀

Keshav Srinivasan

2:18 PM

@SwiftPushkar OK thanks, I fixed it.

@Pandya Haha

S S

@SwiftPushkar That's a good answer. It took a lot of time to me editing it 😄

Lakshmi Narayanan

@SS lulz = Lazy LOL :P

Keshav Srinivasan

@SS By the way, the formatting problems are still not completely fixed.

Lakshmi Narayanan

@SwiftPushkar Hehe pretty soon you will see me doing standup comedy!

S S

@KeshavSrinivasan Yeah. I am using mobile now. Will fix when I get to computer.

Keshav Srinivasan

2:21 PM

@SS Ok

Vishal prabhu lawande

@KeshavSrinivasan but then when Brahman transforms himself into this world. How can His nature of being changeless be maintained?

Also if Souls form a part of His body; then Their suffering becomes His suffering. But Brahman cannot suffer.

@Pandya you are Advaitin?

Pandya

@Vishalprabhulawande Yes.

Vishal prabhu lawande

@Pandya do you think Budhism and Advaita are essentially two aspects of same system?

Keshav Srinivasan

@Vishalprabhulawande Ramanujacharya addresses this in the Sri Bhashya: sacred-texts.com/hin/sbe48/sbe48169.htm

Vishal prabhu lawande

by Budhism i mean Shunyavada of Mahayan Budhists

Pandya

2:30 PM

@Vishalprabhulawande I don't know much about Buddhism.

Vishal prabhu lawande

@KeshavSrinivasan thans Il read that

@Pandya

Shunyavada as we take it in general terms to be Voidism is not true

Shunyavada is rather Devoidism

Pandya

@Vishalprabhulawande Many argues Gaudapada was Buddhist earlier and then replaced Shunya with Brahman.

Vishal prabhu lawande

i.e. Nagarjuna(Mahayana Budhist philosopher saya)

Pandya

Actually I just ignore Buddhism & Jainism.

Vishal prabhu lawande

says*
that "appearances are svabhava-shunya i.e they are devoid of ultimate reality and reality is Prapancha-shunya i.e. devoid of pluralism"

Jainism is clearly refuted by Shankara and Ramanuja

But Shankara doesnt directly refute the Buddhism

actually His philosophy and Buddhist philosophy is essentially same'

so he takes "Shunyavada" in its general term to be voidism or nihilissm and criticises it

Keshav Srinivasan

2:35 PM

@Vishalprabhulawande Adi Shankaracharya does criticize Buddhist philosophy in his Brahma Sutra Bhashya. But yes, a lot of people believe that Gaudapada was originally a Yogachara Buddhist, who used Buddhist ideas to create a new interpretation of Vedanta.

Pandya

@Vishalprabhulawande There's one verse in Gaudapada Karika where he says This is not teaching of Buddha.

Vishal prabhu lawande

@KeshavSrinivasan in fact Dr. Sharma says he had hatred for Budhist. But He does not refute Shunyavada of Nagarjuna. He just dismisses it by taking it in literal sense. which is not correct.

Keshav Srinivasan

@Vishalprabhulawande If you're interested in this stuff I suggest you read Hajime Nakamura's book "History of Early Vedanta Philosophy". It discusses the connections between Buddhism and Advaita.

@Pandya Yeah, that's because he disagrees with Buddhism on the Atman vs. Anatman issue.

Vishal prabhu lawande

@KeshavSrinivasan no actually not interstd in Buddhism :-D Im more inclined towards Vaishnavism. Thats why Im trying to get my doubts cleard from you :)

Keshav Srinivasan

@Vishalprabhulawande Well, even if you're not interested in Buddhism it's still an interesting book if you want to understand the the roots of Advaita, the history of Vedanta before Advaita, etc.

SwiftPushkar

2:40 PM

@SS - 😀😀 hmm i see ,you edited that answer 💐 BTW your joke about krishna shweta is ever green , i still laugh & on destroyers answer to that 😂

Pandya

> क्रमते न हि बुद्धस्य ज्ञानं धर्मेषु तायिनः ।
सर्वे धर्मास्तथा ज्ञानं नैतद्बुद्धेन भाषितम् ॥ ९९॥

@Vishalprabhulawande ^^

Vishal prabhu lawande

@KeshavSrinivasan yes sure. BTW what were you 1st introduced to? Vaishavism or Advaita. I know u are from Sri Vaishnav family

@Pandya whats the meaning?

@KeshavSrinivasan as in which literature u read 1st?

Pandya

@Vishalprabhulawande > The Knowledge of the wise man, who is all light, is never related to any object. All the jivas, as well as Knowledge, are ever unrelated to objects. This is not the view of Buddha.

S S

@SwiftPushkar Which joke is that?

SwiftPushkar

@SS - about the plant in Dp 🌱

Tezz

2:45 PM

@Pandya Hehe... lol😀😀

Pandya

@Vishalprabhulawande I recommend reading Gaudapada Karika on Mandukya Upanishad for one who's interested in Advaita. I firstly recommended it to @Tezz when I probably talked with him first time.

Vishal prabhu lawande

@Pandya ya thanx. Il read :)

Keshav Srinivasan

2:58 PM

@Vishalprabhulawande Yeah, I am from a Sri Vaishnava family. From a very young age, I was watching Dhoordarshan TV serials, like Ramayan, Mahabharat, Sri Krishna, Vishwamitra, etc. That led me to read Amar Chitra Katha comic books, and that led me to start reading Hindu scripture.

@Vishalprabhulawande Now from a relatively early age, I knew what Advaita, Dvaita, and Visistadvaita were, and Visistadvaita made the most sense to me logically. I used to explain what Advaita, Dvaita, and Visistadvaita were to family and friends at a young age, but I didn't study any of those philosophies in detail until I was 14 years old.

@Vishalprabhulawande When I was 14 I read S.M. Srinivasachari's book on Vedanta Desikan's Tattva Mukta Kalapa. That was the first time I learned about Visistadvaita in detail.

@Vishalprabhulawande By the way, you can see a list of the texts I've read here:

10

A: Which texts have you read?

Note: I don't generally read Hindu scriptures and works linearly from beginning to end. So here is a list of some of the texts I've read, in whole or in part: Samhitas of the Vedas: Rig Veda Samhita Taittiriya Samhita of the Yajur Veda Vajasaneyi Samhita of the Yajur Veda Sama Veda Samhita At...

Vishal prabhu lawande

3:19 PM

@KeshavSrinivasan Yes Ive read that . Big list :)

Keshav Srinivasan

3:41 PM

@Vishalprabhulawande By the way, most of the philosophical works on the list are things that I've read relatively recently. Before this site was created, most of my Hinduism reading was confined to Hindu scripture. I didn't read the philosophical works of Acharyas that much. I had studied Western philosophy in depth, but I hadn't studied Hindu philosophy in depth. Like before site was created I didn't even know what Purva Mimamsa was.

SwiftPushkar

Possible Duplicate of - hinduism.stackexchange.com/questions/17531/… — SwiftPushkar 50 secs ago

@KeshavSrinivasan @Pandya @TheDestroyer ⬆⬆

Keshav Srinivasan

@Vishalprabhulawande I knew what Vedanta was, but I hadn't studied it in detail and I had never read the Brahma Sutras.

@SwiftPushkar OK, I closed it.

SwiftPushkar

@KeshavSrinivasan - 😊👍

Vishal prabhu lawande

@KeshavSrinivasan a lot of things I know is actually because of your q/A on this site :)

Keshav Srinivasan

@Vishalprabhulawande It's only after the site was created that I started reading the philosophical works of Acharyas. My knowledge of Hinduism has vastly increased since the site was created. That's not because I've learned a lot by reading questions and answers on the site, rather I've learned a lot in the course of writing questions and answers, especially questions. I do a lot of research in the course of writing my questions.

@Vishalprabhulawande That's great!

Vishal prabhu lawande

3:47 PM

@KeshavSrinivasan

https://hinduism.stackexchange.com/questions/18873/is-there-scriptural-basis-for-prabhup%c4%81das-commentary-on-women-like-being-raped?noredirect=1#comment52075_18873

what do you think? Is this question very valid?

Keshav Srinivasan

@Vishalprabhulawande sv. is a user who became an atheist/agnostic a few months ago, so he's trying to post questions and answers to undermine Hinduism.

Vishal prabhu lawande

@KeshavSrinivasan ok .I din't know that. May God protect our intellect always.

SwiftPushkar

4:04 PM

@KrishnShweta - Yeah , i know .. Sorry for late response , just forgot to reply u back 💐

Pandya

4:25 PM

@KeshavSrinivasan wow!

Keshav Srinivasan

@Pandya Haha, you're suprised that I hadn't studied Hindu philosophy in detail until the creation of the site?

@Pandya As I mentioned above, I hadn't even read the Brahma Sutras yet. I knew that there was a work called the Brahma Sutras, but I didn't know much about it. If you had asked me what the Brahma Sutras were in 2013, I would have told you "They convey the essence of the Vedas." I didn't even know that they related specifically to the Upanishads.

Pandya

@KeshavSrinivasan yes, and " I've learned a lot in the course of writing questions and answers, especially questions. I do a lot of research in the course of writing my questions."

Keshav Srinivasan

@Pandya Yeah, I do far more research in the course of writing questions than in writing answers. When I write an answer I'm usually just conveying stuff that I already know, and at most I just need to find some citations, and in many cases I already know exactly the citation I'm going to provide. But when I write a question, that's when I do large amounts of research to find out new things that I don't know.

Pandya

4:42 PM

@KeshavSrinivasan and within 4 years, you've read lots of commentaries on it.

Keshav Srinivasan

@Pandya Haha yeah, I've read 7 commentaries on it.

@Pandya And I'm looking to read many more.

SwiftPushkar

1

Q: Whenever Goswami's meet, why do they say Aum Namo Narayana?

Whenever two Goswami's meet then why do they say Aum Namo Narayana?

belief history culture

Pandya

@KeshavSrinivasan Yes, I remember you want Anu Bhashya and Swaminarayana commentary

SwiftPushkar

@KeshavSrinivasan @SS - is the word Goswami specific to vaishnavas ? if yes then i think we can give the answer to this question easily

Keshav Srinivasan

@Pandya Yeah, those are two of them. I mentioned to you some others I want to read as well:

SwiftPushkar

4:47 PM

@Pandya - I thought you are talking about comments made by users under his questions :)

Keshav Srinivasan

Sep 8 '16 at 4:56, by Keshav Srinivasan

@Pandya Here are some of the commentaries I'd like to find in English: Bhaskara's commentary advocating Aupadhika Bhedabheda; the Shrikara Bhashya, which is the Lingayat commentary advocating Shakti Visistadvaita; Srinivasa Dikshitar's Vaikhanasa commentary advocating Lakshmi Visistadvaita; Vallabhacharya's Anubhashya advocating Shuddhadvaita; any Swaminarayan sect commentary; and any Ramanandi commentary.

@SwiftPushkar I think Goswami is a term only used by Gaudiya Vaishnavas.

SwiftPushkar

@KeshavSrinivasan - Oh ok , its vaishnava term mostly i think ,then can we writhe the answer using Narayan upanishad quotes & SB ?

Pandya

@KeshavSrinivasan You meant "I'll close it"?

S S

@SwiftPushkar Specific to gaudiya sampradaya

They use it a lot

Keshav Srinivasan

@Pandya I closed it already: hinduism.stackexchange.com/q/18892/36 And then Ajay deleted his own question.

S S

4:50 PM

They say Suka deva Goswami and Srila Vyasadeva @SwiftPushkar

SwiftPushkar

@SS - oh ok , i am writing the answer , so asked for clarification , and yes we cann see that in vedbase site :)

Pandya

@KeshavSrinivasan oh! I clicked on hinduism.stackexchange.com/questions/17531/…. And thought Pushkar want that to be closed. Ok

SwiftPushkar

@Pandya - yeah , i told about it to @KeshavSrinivasan

Keshav Srinivasan

@Pandya By the way, the first time I got any real information about the Brahma Sutras is in early September 2014, when my aunt told me the story of how Ramanujacharya went all the way to Kashmir to read Baudhayana's Vritti on the Brahma Sutras. I posted my very first question on the Vedanta school a few weeks later:

7

Q: What percentage of Hindus belong to a sect that subscribes to the Vedanta school?

Indian schools of philosophy are traditionally divided into two categories, Astika and Nastika. Astika schools accept the authority of the Vedas as divinely revealed truth (shruti), whereas Nastika schools, like Buddhism, Jainism, and Charvaka, reject the authority of the Vedas. Generally membe...

philosophy vedanta sects statistics

Pandya

@SwiftPushkar I mistakenly read you want to close hinduism.stackexchange.com/questions/17531/…. instead of Ajay's Q.

SwiftPushkar

4:56 PM

@Pandya - oh , ok :)

Pandya

@KeshavSrinivasan Hmm... And then you started to link it in other questions: "As I discuss in the this question, by far the most popular school of Hindu philosophy is the Vedanta school..... " Haha

Keshav Srinivasan

@Pandya Haha yeah

S S

@KeshavSrinivasan I have read your question about jayanta incarnation of Vishnu son of Yama

SwiftPushkar

@KeshavSrinivasan @Pandya - Agree with this "by far the most popular school of Hindu philosophy is the Vedanta school" but we also see lots of havana and yajna being still carried out in most of our ceremonies , like marriage , last rites , upanayana & people also perform (personal) yajnas for prosperity like vishnu yaaga , ganesh yagga , chandi yaga , so Porrva mimansa school is also equally followed isn't it? wht do you think @Tezz

Pandya

@KeshavSrinivasan replace (As I discussed in this) ~~answer~~ with question in these 5 posts‌.

SwiftPushkar

5:05 PM

@Pandya - sharp noticing , i think @KeshavSrinivasan will get angry , if we both continue to ask hm abt. making corrections today :)

Pandya

@SwiftPushkar haha; why angry today? (Anything special?)

Rakesh Joshi

is it by far the most popular in the States or what ? :P

Pandya

@RakeshJoshi in the world or at-least in India.

SwiftPushkar

@Pandya - i asked him to correct one missing link from his answer some time ago and now u r asking to make 5 more corrections ... 😀

Rakesh Joshi

@Pandya so patanjalis yoga less popular than vedanta ? !!!

Keshav Srinivasan

5:11 PM

@SwiftPushkar No, because the Vedanta school doesn't forbid Yagnas and other rituals. The Vedanta school accepts both the Karma Kanda and the Jnana Kanda of the Vedas. When I say that the Vedanta school is the most popular school of Hinduism, I don't mean that people pay more attention to the Jnana Kanda than the Karma Kanda. Most Hindus today don't even know the term "Jnana Kanda". What I mean is that vast majority of Hindus today belong to a sect of Hinduism that subscribes to the Vedanta school.

Rakesh Joshi

@KeshavSrinivasan i asked what is the proof for above claim ?

SwiftPushkar

@KeshavSrinivasan - "because the Vedanta school doesn't forbid Yagnas and other rituals." oh , i was not aware of this , i was thinking it is :) Anyway u clarified that nicely :)

Pandya

@SwiftPushkar also I think most of those who follow rituals, accept and believe in Vedanta.

SwiftPushkar

@Pandya - yeah , true :)

Tezz

@SwiftPushkar Vedanta Sutras itself say 'Shastra Yonitwat' or 'Scripture (Veda) is the source (of knowledge). '... so rituals described in Vedas/Scriptures are accepted by default..

Keshav Srinivasan

5:16 PM

@SwiftPushkar The Purva Mimamsa school doesn't even exist anymore. Mimamsakas had all sorts of bizarre beliefs, like they thought the Earth was eternal and humans have lived on the Earth for all eternity, they rejected the Yuga and Kalpa system, they thought all stories found in Hindu scriptures are fictional, they were skeptical of the existence of the gods and Brahman, etc.

SwiftPushkar

@Tezz - hmm , ok :)

Rakesh Joshi

the great yoga school is still there then since when did vedanta became most famous ?

SwiftPushkar

@KeshavSrinivasan - "Purva Mimamsa school doesn't even exist anymore" ok :) but can we say that Ved-Pathshala's are somewhat Purva Mimamsa schools.

Rakesh Joshi

@SwiftPushkar is karma kanda different than purva mimamsa? what is priesthood ?

SwiftPushkar

since they teach the philosophy and procedure of yajnas?

Pandya

5:20 PM

@RakeshJoshi Though Yoga school is also popular winch is primarily based on Sankhya and Vivekananda also wrote Sankhua Yoga based on it. But you know that there are lots of commentaries have been writing by Acharyas, actually often one has to study Prashthanatrayi in order to be considered Aacharya.

Keshav Srinivasan

@SwiftPushkar Even the Vedanta school believes in the importance of going to Veda Patashalas.

SwiftPushkar

@KeshavSrinivasan - yeah , its told in many upanishads .. Guru graha

Rakesh Joshi

@Pandya why one has to study prasthana trayi? its for vedanta not others

if yoga school is branch of samkhya then why patanjali yoga is given separate category ?

Pandya

@RakeshJoshi Vedanta school is popular because it's main theme is to preach Brahma-Jnana & Vedanta is primarily based on Upanishads which has valuable authority.

Rakesh Joshi

ask 100 people if they know about "yoga" or "vedanta"

Pandya

5:22 PM

Though Yoga provides the way but Vedanta/Upanishads provides the goal!

Rakesh Joshi

its only about popularity and please dont make clams that yoga cant lead one to goal

Keshav Srinivasan

@RakeshJoshi Kapila's Samkhya school and Patanjali's Yoga school are separate school. But they have very similar philosophical beliefs, except that the Samkhya school rejects the existence of Ishwara or supreme being and the Yoga school accepts the existence of Ishwara.

Rakesh Joshi

just give the reference for making such claims or please retract those statement from youur aswers

SwiftPushkar

@Pandya - its in the world , many universities are having courses on it , we can see the questions asked on Philosophy stack exchange about vedanta.

Keshav Srinivasan

@RakeshJoshi Yes, Karma Kanda and Purva Mimamsa are different. The Karma Kanda is a part of the Vedas, whereas Purva Mimamsa is a philosophical school that has various philosophical beliefs derived from applying the methods of Mimamsa to the Karma Amanda of the Vedas.

Pandya

5:27 PM

@RakeshJoshi which answers?

Keshav Srinivasan

@RakeshJoshi If you just go through all the major sects of Hinduism, you will find that the vast majority of them subscribe to the Brahma Sutras.

Rakesh Joshi

@KeshavSrinivasan no majority i met follow yoga in their daily life for various purposes

Keshav Srinivasan

@RakeshJoshi I am not claiming that the word Vedanta is more popular than the word Yoga. I am talking about the philosophical beliefs of Hindu sects.

Rakesh Joshi

so yoga is not a philosophical school or what ?

The Destroyer

@KeshavSrinivasan Rakesh says "many people don't know about their sects or interested in these sects or strictly follow one school. So, how can anyone say "Vedanta is popular school"??"

Keshav Srinivasan

5:29 PM

@RakeshJoshi I am not talking about practices, I am talking about philosophical schools. I am saying that the vast majority of Hindus belong to a sect of Hinduism that subscribes to the Vedanta school.

Rakesh Joshi

so prove that yoga darshana is a not a philosophy simple ..

Keshav Srinivasan

@TheDestroyer I'm not talking about the knowledge of common people, but the philosophical worldview of the sects to which they belong.

The Destroyer

@KeshavSrinivasan Yes. For example in South Indian villages, many people worship Grama Devatas, but it has nothing to do with Vedanta.

@KeshavSrinivasan If you consider many such cases, most of them don't follow any philosophy or subscribe to any sect that belongs to a particular philosophy.

Keshav Srinivasan

@RakeshJoshi Certainly Patanjali's Yoga school is a philosophical school. But very few sects of Hinduism actually subscribe to the philosophical beliefs of Patanjali's Yoga school. For instance the Yoga school says that Ishwara is the efficient cause but not the material cause of the Universe. Very few sects of Hinduism today agree with that, apart from a few Shaivite sects. And those Shaivite sects still reject the Yoga school for other reasons.

The Destroyer

@KeshavSrinivasan Some Shaivite sects reject Yoga School?? . Shiva is expounder of Yoga and Adi Yogi. How can they??

Keshav Srinivasan

5:36 PM

@TheDestroyer Well, Yoga has a meaning beyond the Yoga school. In any case, the Shaiva Siddhanta sect disagrees with the Yoga school on the number of Tattvas. I think the Shaiva Siddhanta philosopher Arulnandi Sivacharya criticizes the Yoga school in his Sivajnana Siddhiyar.

Aghori

Advait Vedanta also says Ishwar is not material cause, Maya is. Right?

@TheDestroyer they reject philosophies of yoga schools. Not practices of yoga.

Keshav Srinivasan

@Aghori We have to distinguish between two perspectives. In the relative perspective, Advaita says that Ishwara is both the efficient cause and the material cause of the Universe. In the absolute perspective, Brahman alone exists.

The Destroyer

@Aghori Maya is Iswara Sristi.

Aghori

How material cause? @KeshavSrinivasan Maya should be.

@TheDestroyer Ishwar is the cause of Māyā?

Keshav Srinivasan

@Aghori From the relative perspective, the world is a real entity which emerges out of Ishwara. Adi Shankaracharya discusses this in his Brahma Sutra Bhashya. In fact, he criticizes the Shaiva Agamas for their belief that Ishwara is not the material cause of he Universe.

Aghori

5:42 PM

So according to him @KeshavSrinivasan Māyā is the product of Ishwar?

Or Ishwar is the cause of Māyā?

Keshav Srinivasan

@Aghori According to him Ishwara is the cause of matter. As far as Maya goes, we have to distinguish between two things: Avidya and Prakriti. Adi Shankaracharya accepts the existence of Avidya, but he rejects the evolutes of Prakriti like Mahat and the rest.

SwiftPushkar

@KeshavSrinivasan - instrumental cause and material cause , are both these terms same or different ?

Keshav Srinivasan

@Aghori I discuss the relevant section of Adi Shankaracharya'a Brahma Sutra Bhashya in my question here:

3

Q: Who agrees with Adi Shankaracharya on Smriti having no authority over the existence of objects?

As I discuss in this question, by far the most popular school of Hindu philosophy is the Vedanta school, which bases its tenets on the doctrines laid out in the Brahma Sutras, a work by the sage Vyasa that summarizes and systematizes the philosophical teachings of the Upanishads. You can read the...

philosophy vedanta adi-shankaracharya purva-mimamsa sankhya

Aghori

@KeshavSrinivasan But matter & Maya are different.

Which Hindu scriptures say that Buddha and Mahavira got liberation? — Aks 2 mins ago

Good night @KeshavSrinivasan @SwiftPushkar @Tezz @SS @RakeshJoshi @TheDestroyer @LakshmiNarayanan

SwiftPushkar

@Aghori - yes a very good night to you :)

S S

5:53 PM

@Aghori Good night

Keshav Srinivasan

@SwiftPushkar Instrumental cause, material cause, and efficient cause are all different. The material cause is the substance that something is made of. The efficient cause of something is what causes it to happen. And the instrumental cause is the instrument of tool used to make something. So for instance, the material cause of a clay pot is clay. The efficient cause is the potter who molds the clay into a pot. And the instrumental cause is the chisel the potter uses to mold the pot.

SwiftPushkar

@KeshavSrinivasan - hmm , ok , got it :)

SwiftPushkar

6:14 PM

😴 night night guys , TC ,

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