Vedanta and Philosophy

3:16 PM

@Tezz "since you were interested in 12 verses of Shiva Jnana Bodham... I found translation of them here:" Thanks, I've already seen that.

@Tezz By the way, earlier I gave you two commentaries on the Shiva Jnana Bidham:

Jan 2 at 6:00, by Keshav Srinivasan

@Tezz By the way, here is Meykandar's Shiva Jnana Bodham: https://archive.org/details/SivaGnanaBothamEng And here is Shivagrayogi's Shiva Jnana Bodham: https://www.himalayanacademy.com/media/books/sivagnana-bodha_sa-en/sivagnana-bod‌ha.pdf

@Tezz Meykandar's commentary on the Shiva Jnana Bodham is one of the most important texts for the Shaiva Siddhanta sect.

Chinmaya B

3:48 PM

@TheDestroyer It's disrespectful he didn't cherrypick verses he just explained his views with relevant(not cherries) verses.

Rakesh Joshi

Cheery picking is good . why should one pick irrelvant quotes to the topic. instead one should only pick the quotes which one is wishing to talk about.

The Destroyer

@ChinmayaB Ok. I already explained you. In Supremecy arguments, first one should consider all vedic verses. But Sri Vendanta Desikan first gave vedic verses of Vishnu which praise Vishnu and declared Him as Supreme and then applied antaryami concept to rest of the Vedic verses. I'll wll leave this analysis to your conscience. No more discussions.

Rakesh Joshi

@ChinmayaB some vedantins are afraid of such verses and since they claim vedas as supreme they cannot even declare "contradictions" in vedas :) @Seeker

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi No Vedantin is afraid of verses.

Rakesh Joshi

As long as there are Sun and Moon in the sky Sankaras vedanta and other vedanta will be criticized by each other.

The Destroyer

3:56 PM

It's the INTERPRETATION that shows differences among different Vedantic schools.

@RakeshJoshi You only see criticizing not content.

Rakesh Joshi

even if some verse does not fit some acharya's ideas he will have to change the interpretation to suit his ideology else it will look foolish

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi No School of thought is perfect in Hinduism as per your logic.

Mimamsakas and Non Vedic Schools of Vamacharis lambasted Vedanta School in past.

Why do you only concentrate on vedanta?

Rakesh Joshi

criticsm is an integral part of vedanta. Sankara started it .
i think he has criticized every sect in his vedant sutra bhashya . to uphold his views.
and people ask me not to see "criticsm" in vedanta when the books are filled with criticism and race of supremacy .

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi You are mistaken. There were warring sects in Hinduism before Hinduism, what do you say about them?

Rakesh Joshi

mistaken in which area ?

sankara has criticized ritualism, sankhya, yoga, aghora, kapalika, pancharatra, pasupata etc etc ... what more is needed to understand this ?

The Destroyer

4:01 PM

@RakeshJoshi Criticism is actually a good thing. But disparaging is bad.

@RakeshJoshi Please say conditions of pre Shankara age?

Why only after Shankara?

Rakesh Joshi

what condition ?

take any vedanta scripture and see the critgicism yourself

other sects are relatively free from such things .

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi Do you think all those sankhya, yoga, aghora, kapalika, pancharatra, pasupata etc etc were silent and doing their works?

They were warring.

Rakesh Joshi

what they did ?

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi Please read history.

Rakesh Joshi

ok which book ?

The Destroyer

4:04 PM

@RakeshJoshi Don't you know how was condition before Shankara?

Rakesh Joshi

show me these "wars" and "such criticism" in varkari or bhakti , yoga , and other scritpruews

Chinmaya B

@RakeshJoshi His father was a great Scholar, I suppose he learned from his father.

Rakesh Joshi

whose ?

Chinmaya B

/@TheDestroyer Okay cool then

@RakeshJoshi You are maharastrian

?

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi Criticism is not exclusive to Vedanta School. Every School in Hinduism criticized other School.

Rakesh Joshi

4:06 PM

whose father @TheDestroyer

@ChinmayaB no dear not marathi

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi Even Buddhists were attacking Sanatana Dharma at that time. You can't forget these Historical facts of pre Shankara age.

Chinmaya B

@RakeshJoshi Okay

Rakesh Joshi

why should i worry about buddhism now .. we have to see our religion first

Seeker

Yes, Sankara indeed criticised others badly. But whatever, we should focus on positive aspects now.

Indeed, world is not unreal it is just apparent. But Sankara philosophy can be used to discriminate between permanent & impermanent which is very helpful in Sadhna.

kamakotimandali.com/blog/…

shaivism.net/articles/11.html

Rakesh Joshi

4:32 PM

:)

Seeker

-_- it is good to be little diplomatic unless we are enlightened. 😋😀

Chinmay Sarupria

@Tezz @TheDestroyer Hello, I would like to know your views on karma, why to do good karma if everything is already fixed. Ramakrishna Paramahansa said, "Only when the right time comes, you will feel yearning towards God", Lahiri Mahasaya said, "Only when the time comes, you will receive initiation", Swami Vivekananda said "everything is fixed", so why to meditate, why to contemplate on God? Because everything will only happen when time comes, then why to do all good stuff?

Seeker

If everything is fixed God would be boring. 😂😯

The Destroyer

@ChinmaySarupria Yes. Everything is fixed but we don't know in advance. But we should be good karma as results are good for it. So, i think it's for our own comfort.

@RakeshJoshi You speak as if Vedanta is nothing but criticisms. Vedanta is popular now. If you make some other school as popular, they criticize each other. It's not limited to Vedanta alone.

Seeker

4:51 PM

There is free will. Affirmed by all the schools. Read here.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaktism

So it is not that everything is fixed.

The Destroyer

@Seeker It's unclear. There's no free will.

5

Q: Does Shiva or Vishnu or Trikaladarshi Yogi know our Aagami Karma or our free will?

Aagami Karma is actions we do in this birth. This is generally said to be free will. See this question: Is our destiny predetermined? If yes, then why do our actions affect our karma?. Does Shiva or Vishnu or a Trikalagnani Yogi (who can know past, present, and future) know our Aagami Karma? Or ...

Seeker

@TheDestroyer All mojor Hindu schools affirms Free will.

Chinmay Sarupria

@TheDestroyer But how can we do good karma when even that is fixed from beginning.

Seeker

Trikaldarshi actually sees the future based on latest prarabdha Karmas & latest state of spiritual evolution of population or individual guy.

Chinmay Sarupria

@Seeker But even that spiritual evolution is fixed as Sri Ramakrishna and Lahiri Mahasaya said "everything will happen only when time will come"

Seeker

5:09 PM

@ChinmaySarupria Even In the worst case if we admit action is fixed, then also the external world would be fixed not your Sadhna. i.e, material world can be fixed but you will always have choices whether to know the truth or not.

Chinmay Sarupria

@Seeker But our sadhna will always be based on the actions we perform in material world, if right time doesn't come, we won't do sadhna and if times come, we will have real yearning for God as per Sri Ramakrishna.

Seeker

God can stop you to be materially successful but it won't stop you to k ow yourself.

In the worst case only material world can be fixed.

@ChinmaySarupria but who has Stopped you to do Sadhna. -_-

Chinmay Sarupria

@Seeker Well these are the words of Sri Ramakrishna, Lahiri Mahasaya and Swami Vivekananda who were realized souls, if they are saying everything happens on time then how to believe opposite?

Seeker

Everything 'material' happens on time. Ramana Maharshi too was realized he said what I'm saying.

Chinmay Sarupria

@Seeker Then why did Sri Ramakrishna said that yearning for God will only happen when time comes? He even gave an example - a child says to mother, "Mother, please wake me up when I get nature's call" to which Mother replied, "Don't worry, you will wake up yourself when the time comes".

Seeker

5:19 PM

There are 2 types of grace

1- Which you earn.

2- which Ramakrishna describe

You have 1st choice always.

None has stopped you to earn grace.

Rakesh Joshi

@Seeker bang on.

Trikaal darshi predicted death of Markandeya at 16 but with grace and free will of lord he became immortal

Seeker

Exactly @RakeshJoshi

Tezz

@TheDestroyer I think I won't fast.. what about you?..

Seeker

Fate can be changed.

Rakesh Joshi

else there wont be any use of praying .. once someone understands that life is not good then there wont be any other way than waiting and watching ..

Chinmay Sarupria

5:22 PM

@Seeker Then how it is possible that future of a person can be predicted? Swami Vivekananda told to a person in Chicago that after some 40 years, he will get a guru and will give him a silver spoon.

Markendeya rishi story is not even authentic.

Tezz

@ChinmaySarupria If everything is already fixed... then doing good Karma is also already fixed.. so we are bound to do Good karma... we can't even stop from doing good Karma as it is destined... isn't it... ?..

Chinmay Sarupria

@Tezz Exactly my question!

Tezz

@ChinmaySarupria but story of King Sveta is authentic:

4

A: Did lord Shiva time travel?

Kãlãnjãra means who is the destroyer of Kãla. ie. Who is Kãla of Kãla (Kãlakãla). There is also a tirtha called Kalanjara where Lord Shiva destroyed Kãla while protecting his devotee Sveta. Kurma Purana Uttara Bhaga chapter 36 tells that story: There is a great Tirtha by the name Kãlanjara wh...

Sree Charan

@Tezz I think he will.

Seeker

@ChinmaySarupria he might have predicted because the guy had accumulated such Karmas to get Guru.

Chinmay Sarupria

5:27 PM

Swami Vivekananda said each and everything is fixed and every thing in this universe will perfectly repeat itself over and over again, for example - if this cycle of creation is A, next could be C, next could be F, next could be J, next could again be A.

Seeker

Everything happens at will of God but you can change the will of God through Sadhna.

Chinmay Sarupria

But to do that Sadhna, there must be will of god allowing me to do that sadhna.

Tezz

@SreeCharan he will ?..

Seeker

But how God will stop you, if you do any Sadhna? 😓

Chinmay Sarupria

I am the machine, God is operator, I can't do Sadhna if he doesn't want me to do.

Tezz

5:30 PM

@ChinmaySarupria it won't perfectly repeat there will be deviations.. only those statements mentioned in Vedas perfectly repeat... eg. Every Indra will be lover if Ahalya... but it isn't necessary that every Indra will rape Ahalya...

Seeker

Right.

👏👏😂

Chinmay Sarupria

@Tezz Well Swami Vivekananda clearly said, there will come a time when exact sequence of events will repeat, just like anything from 1-6 can come again on dice after 1st throw.

Tezz

@ChinmaySarupria for eg. Destruction of Yajna by Lord Rudra in every Manvantara is destined... but it isn't necessary destruction occur in same way ... like:

5

Q: Did the destruction of Daksha's sacrifice also happen in present Vaivasvata Manvantara?

It is a well-known event that Mahadeva destroys the sacrifice of Daksha when Devi Sati destroys herself in the sacrifice. But it happened in the Pitri Kalpa. Destruction of Yajna of Daksha is the symbolism of the fact that Devas due to their arrogancy are stupefied to such level that they procee...

scripture mahabharata shiva vedas yuga

Seeker

Peace be upon Indra post. 😂

Tezz

@Seeker haha lol... you will do the same if you become Indra...

Chinmay Sarupria

5:33 PM

@Tezz Yes but you could consider those deviations as a little bit different cycle, for example - first destruction of Yajna can be considered A, the other as B but after infinite turns, the exact same events as A will again repeat.

Tezz

@ChinmaySarupria exact repetition may also occur in certain point regarding infinite passage of samsara cycle...

Seeker

😂😂😂 @Tezz Their love for Ahilya is fixed. All indras would left with broken hearts. Peace be upon them.

@ChinmaySarupria Subset of infinite set is uncountably infinite.

You can't enumerate the subsets of infinite events.

Chinmay Sarupria

@Tezz Ex - In one of the past lives, there was a jiva in the body named as Chinmay Sarupria and there was another Jiva in the body named as Tezz but there was no Jiva in the body named "Seeker" but in future and most certainly in past, there must have been that time when Tezz, Chinmay Sarupria and Seeker body existed at the same time and were chatting on Hinduism chat room writing this exact thing.

Tezz

@Seeker haha... some Indra may also marry Ahalya... while some may resist their desire and thus get prevented from it's consequences...

Seeker

@Tezz haha. 😂😂

Tezz

5:38 PM

@ChinmaySarupria yes... in the infinite time... this event may have repeated infinite times... in infinite universes... isn't it?..

Chinmay Sarupria

Yes.

Seeker

Are there many Vishnu,brahma & Rudras at the same time in different universes?

Is there such question or I should post?

Tezz

@Seeker there is already that question...

Seeker

Please give the link. @Tezz

Chinmay Sarupria

There are multiple Hiranyagarbhas outside this current cosmic egg, each have it's own Brahma, Vishnu & Rudras.

Tezz

5:40 PM

5

A: Are there other Brahmas and universes?

Chapter III On seeing the Devî of Devi Bhagavatam says, there are multiple Brahmas, multiple Vishnus and multiple Rudras. After killing Dânavas Madhu Kaitabha, three deities got into a beautiful Vimana sent by Devi Bhagavathi. They saw multiple Satyaloka, multiple Vishnuloka and multiple Kailasa...

Seeker

Any stories where someone from one universe went to different universe?

Tezz

@Seeker ^^^

Chinmay Sarupria

In Brahmanda Purana, it is mentioned that Vishnu and other devatas went outside this Hiranyagarbha to pray to Maha Shambhu but didn't enter other universe.

Sree Charan

Devi Bhagavatam says that.

Chinmay Sarupria

7

Q: How did Tripura Sundari come into existence?

As Wikipedia says: Tripurāsundarī (त्रिपुरा सुंदरी - "Beautiful (Goddess) of the Three Worlds") or Mahā-Tripurasundarī ("Great Beautiful (Goddess) of the Three Worlds"), also called Ṣhoḍaśhi ("Sixteen"), Lalitā and Rājarājeśvarī ("Queen of Queens, Supreme Ruler"), is one of the group of ten g...

shiva brahman kali

Tezz

5:43 PM

@Seeker Ramcharitmanas also mentions Kakbhusundi going in other Universes through Ramas mouth and meeting himself:

5

A: What are the main differences between Valmiki Ramayana and Ram Charit Manas

Your above information is partly wrong. Tulsidas Ramcharitmanas was not direct word of Hanuman . Tulsidas got darshan of Hanuman guided by a Pretatama and by the guide of Hanuman he received vision of Shri Ram and Lakshman. He then decided to write Ramayan. First he wanted to write in Sanskrit bu...

I went round and beheld multitudinous universes having the shape of an egg. Each universe had its own Brahmå (Creator), its own Vishnu (Preserver), ›Shiva (Destroyer), Manu (lord of creation presiding over a single Manvantara, consisting of a little more than 74 rounds of the four Yugas), regents of the quarters, human beings,Gandharvas (celestial musicians), spectres and goblins, Ki≈naras (another class of heavenly musicians having a human figure with the head of a horse)

Seeker

@Tezz Oh. 😯😯😯Universe is so wonderful.

Tezz

Råk¶asas (giants), quadrupeds, birds, serpents, gods and demons of all classes, all the creatures having a shape peculiar to that universe. The earth with its multitudinous rivers, oceans, lakes and mountains, nay, the entire creation in each universe had a distinctive character. In all these universes I saw myself in every universe.

@Seeker yes.. it is very mystic and wonderful...

Each universe had its own Ayodhyå with its own Sarayµu and its own men and women. And listen, dear Garuda : Ramas parents Dasaratha and Kausalya as well as ›Råmas brothers, Bharata and others, were all different in each universe. In each such universe I witnessed the descent of Råma as well as the infinite variety of His childish sports.

Seeker

😵😵👐👐👐👐✋✋✋Amazing

Tezz

@Seeker 😀😀👦👦

Seeker

There is a Vikramaditya story where he went to different universe but the people were not made of Panchbhutas there, so they couldn't see Vikram but Vikram. Could see them. Don't know the reliability of these story.

Tezz

5:56 PM

@Seeker where did you read that.. I never heard of it...

Seeker

@Tezz start watching these. They researched. You will enjoy.

dorabuzz.wapka.me/video/list/5251220?get-number=2

Tezz

@SreeCharan :

Shrungi rushi cannot write it in Satya yug. As Gita was told in dwapara yuga. What is the proof that it is written by Shrungi rushi? How is that authentic? — Sree Charan 4 mins ago

@SreeCharan haha lol... Rishi is becoming Rishi himself.. (seer)...

Sree Charan

@Tezz Quoting the same person again and again. I searched about Krishn Dutt and he is not famous. Many are showing up.

Tezz

@SreeCharan and see the misery of our site... that is the accepted answer... lol...

The Destroyer

@Tezz yes.

Tezz

6:03 PM

@SreeCharan he is exactly acting like Rishi in other cases also ... like giving instructions without quoting anything...

Sree Charan

@Tezz Ravana itihasa Shrungi rishi in Satya yuga and Krishn Dutt in present life.--- In other answers.

The Destroyer

@Tezz I told him many times to cite scriptures but he is still answering without any refernences.

Tezz

@TheDestroyer haha.... @SreeCharan who is he... ?..

The Destroyer

@SreeCharan Who is that Jiva named Krishna datta?

Sree Charan

Books are fine upto some extent. But I do not know about this Krishn Dutt. @TheDestroyer @Tezz

0

A: Why didn't Ravana use the Chandrahasa sword against Lord Rama?

Based on the Book "रावण ईतिहास" by "(श्रृंगी ऋषि in Satyug) & कृष्ण दत्त in present life". This weapon was used to work from his palace Ravana was given this weapon, Its one end was basically fitted in some sort of obelisk in his palace and the other part was in naval region of ravana, So basi...

Rakesh Joshi

6:06 PM

@SreeCharan the question is accepted by logic and not based on text alone.

Tezz

@SreeCharan also he is quoting nonsense things which completely contradict Valmiki Ramayana... most of his answers deserve deletion...

Rakesh Joshi

@SreeCharan when suka can have conversation with dasharatha then in puranic stories anything is possible.

Sree Charan

@RakeshJoshi Accepting is upto you. But an upvote would be fine. But there should be some pramana also. Do you think BG an interpolation?

The Destroyer

@Tezz Yes. Whatever things which oppose authentic scriptures should be deleted. For Ramayana, Valmiki ramayana is Pramana and for Mahabharata, vyasa Mahabharata is Pramana.

Tezz

@SreeCharan @TheDestroyer furthermore this Gita answer purely deserve deletion... this is just a hypothetical answer...

Sree Charan

6:08 PM

@RakeshJoshi When did they have a conversion?

Is ved vyasa same as Krishn Dutt?

Rakesh Joshi

@SreeCharan Janaka sorry not dasharatha

aumamen.com/story/story-of-shukdev-meeting-king-janaka

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi can you show that story in VR?

@RakeshJoshi That is in Devi Bhagavatam.

But it's not sure whether that Janaka was Sita's father or some other Janaka.

Tezz

@SreeCharan @TheDestroyer I think we should cite downvote on that story and also deletion vote... that answer doesn't deserve to remain in Hinduism SE for more than 24 hrs... 😀😀

Sree Charan

hinduism.stackexchange.com/help/accepted-answer

Rakesh Joshi

when you can quote shiva purana for ramayana incidents then why not other puranic stoeries

Tezz

6:11 PM

@TheDestroyer it is also mentioned in Mahabharata....

The Destroyer

@Tezz Who is that Janaka?

Rakesh Joshi

now the logic is ... that "janaka" is not seeta's father but its title for mithila king :D

Tezz

@TheDestroyer Keshava told that he was a dynasty of Janaka... and it was title...

Rakesh Joshi

i m saying so that you not waste this time in searching it.

because its festival time going to start soon

The Destroyer

@Tezz Yes. Not Sita's father. Even Ramesh Menon says the same.

Sree Charan

6:12 PM

Is there a mention of particular Shrungi (Rushya shringa) maharshi in any other texts besides VR? @RakeshJoshi

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi If you have prejudice on Puranas, we can't help you.

Chinmay Sarupria

According to Jainism, Ravana was father of Sita.

Rakesh Joshi

then why are you rejecting Devi bhagwat when i m posting @TheDestroyer

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi When did i reject it?

Sree Charan

According to Jainism and some people, Ravana is not a brahmin. he was a jain. He abducted sita to give her back to Rama after some days. That is not even considered abduction.

Rakesh Joshi

6:14 PM

@SreeCharan where was this geeta before sankara ? why no one found it worthy to comment or talk about ? and after sankara suddenly hundreds of commentaries

Tezz

Ravana was given this weapon, Its one end was basically fitted in some sort of obelisk in his palace and the other part was in naval region of ravana, So basically what it does is when ever his will power goes down, it send signals to ravana mind which always helped him to regain a very powerful will power that you will win because any will power makes you win a war.

Seeker

@SreeCharan This is new thing to me. 😂

Tezz

Haha lol...

Rakesh Joshi

@ChinmaySarupria @SreeCharan as per jainism Krishna is in Hell right now because he did big karma by creating holoucast of violence in the war. the next teerthankar as per jainism is Ravana

Chinmay Sarupria

Well Jains consider Ravana as their future tirthankara so made up this story, they even say that Ravana was killed by Lakshmana

Tezz

6:16 PM

They also say Lakshmana is in Hell @ChinmaySarupria

Sree Charan

@Seeker That is by some jains and buddhists whose only work is to curse hindu deities.

Chinmay Sarupria

@RakeshJoshi Yeah I find it way too hilarious that they think Krishna to be in hell right now

Seeker

@SreeCharan @Tezz But Amazing.

Rakesh Joshi

@ChinmaySarupria its their logic . people find many funny things in hinduism too

Chinmay Sarupria

@SreeCharan It's all made up stories by later jains, most if not all tirthankaras were avatar of Vishnu.

Tezz

6:18 PM

@Seeker haha...

Rakesh Joshi

@ChinmaySarupria please dont link jain people with vishnu

Chinmay Sarupria

@RakeshJoshi 1st tirthankara of Jainism, Rishabha deva was avatar of Vishnu

Rakesh Joshi

@ChinmaySarupria reference ?

Sree Charan

@RakeshJoshi They interpret in their way. Rishabha deva who is the 1st thirthankar is Vishnu avatara

Chinmay Sarupria

7

Q: Was Rishabha, the first tirthankar of Jainism, an incarnation of Lord Vishnu or Lord Shiva?

Rishabha, the first tirthankar of Jainism, is known to be an incarnation of Lord Vishnu. He is mentioned in the Bhagavat Purana and the Vedas. Jain Acharya Jinasena also confirmed that Rishabha was an avatar of Vishnu. But Rishabha shares a lot of similarities to Lord Shiva. He attained Moksha a...

vishnu shiva avatars

The Destroyer

6:19 PM

@RakeshJoshi They interpret in their own way. Why not they shouldn't link Vishnu with Jainism?

Sree Charan

@ChinmaySarupria But they reject bhagavatam and other stories in hinduism.

Chinmay Sarupria

Jains don't even believe in avatars but ironically their founder was avatara.

Tezz

@SreeCharan they have their own Harivamsha Purana also...

Chinmay Sarupria

@SreeCharan Yeah they have to otherwise how will they explain to people why to chose Jainism.

Rakesh Joshi

@ChinmaySarupria @SreeCharan this is greed. Bhagwat author wants every religion to claim as hindu

bhagwat mentions buddha as vishnu .. now u say jinas as hindu

then i m waiting for some puranas to declare guru nanak and jesus as vishnu avatara

Sree Charan

6:22 PM

How do you know that Sankaracharya created or interpolated BG? @RakeshJoshi

Rakesh Joshi

@SreeCharan why no one before him commented or quoted it ?

Sree Charan

You don't believe puranas . We can't convince you.

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi Without will of Vishnu or without anything knowing to Vishnu, how can anything happen?

@RakeshJoshi Who created other religions?

Rakesh Joshi

@TheDestroyer same thing zakir naik says without Allah wish nothing happens and vedas preach of allah one god no form

Chinmay Sarupria

@RakeshJoshi Jainism, Buddhism and Sikkhism all are part of Hinduism, I consider all of them as Hindus. Guru Gobind singh only talks about Hindu gods in his books.

The Destroyer

6:23 PM

@RakeshJoshi Whose name is revealed first? Vishnu or Allah?

Rakesh Joshi

why would vishnu avatar delude and condemn vedas like jinas and buddhas did ..

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi Vedas or Quran?

Tezz

@RakeshJoshi Vishnu is above Karma and Vedic injunctions... he can do anything...

Rakesh Joshi

so please let us not hijack other religions as hindus . let them remain separate as they want

Chinmay Sarupria

@RakeshJoshi Rishabha deva never deluded people and neither did Buddha, according to Swami Vivekananda, Buddha originally preached Upanishads but later on his teachings were corrupted and that marked the beginning of what is known as buddhism.

Rakesh Joshi

6:25 PM

@ChinmaySarupria but who will talk about swami vivekananda meat eating and controversies with nivedita ?

Seeker

It is right. We should spare nom violent religions. Better to attack Islam like cults.

Chinmay Sarupria

23rd tirthankara of Jainism, Parsvanatha was probably an avatar of Shiva otherwise why would Bhairava be interested in guarding his temple

Rakesh Joshi

dont take his talks seriously .. let him remain a nationalist and freedom fighter

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi What i want to say is, Vishnu knows everything. With simple logic, we can say he created all other religions like how he created shaven heads during Tripura Samhara.

Chinmay Sarupria

don't take talks of Swami Vivekananda seriously??!!

Swami Vivekananda was not material freedom fighter, he was and will remain the freedom fighter for jivas like us.

Seeker

6:28 PM

@ChinmaySarupria Rakesh sir believes in "Vedas as they are"... Anybody who contradicts Vedas, he think him as of fishy personality.

Sree Charan

@RakeshJoshi Buddha followers did not follow their guru's preachings correctly. Buddha said not to worship his mortal body and belongings. Now buddhist temples have become tourist places due to buddha's remains.

Rakesh Joshi

@SreeCharan every religion gets corrupt with time . so is hindusim

The Destroyer

@Seeker Everyone thinks they believe "Vedas as they are..." But different people interpreted VEdas differently.

Rakesh Joshi

@Seeker while following any scripture our logic should not be switched off

Seeker

That is also correct. @TheDestroyer it is being very difficult to separate truth from untruth nowadays.

Chinmay Sarupria

6:30 PM

@RakeshJoshi Vedas never get corrupt, other religions will come and go but Sanatan Dharma will remain forever. It's all lila of God, just like how due to his will Islam started at the start of Kali Yuga(600 AD) and within a short period of time started dominating different regions.

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi Can you define what is "logic"? Logic in normal state or Logic in deep tapasya? Which logic you are talking?

Seeker

Yes Sir @RakeshJoshi but at same time we need to be careful about our distorted or incomplete logic.

Rakesh Joshi

@ChinmaySarupria not vedas but religion has got corrupt . that is the followers

Chinmay Sarupria

That is the reason why Vishnu takes avatar.

Rakesh Joshi

@TheDestroyer whichever state is the seeker

@ChinmaySarupria even if he takes 1000 avatar still religion will get corrupt with time ... its law of nature

so what happens between avatara is to be seen

The Destroyer

6:32 PM

@RakeshJoshi If a Yogi expands his consciousness, his logic changes. If logic itself is changing, how can we stick to one logic?

Rakesh Joshi

@TheDestroyer stick to logic at your level ... if your logic improves with time then you can accept that . nothing wrong

Chinmay Sarupria

There is a very interesting field - lucid dreaming where people can go to place they have never gone before and do things that is simply not possible with these physical bodies.

Rakesh Joshi

as a child we have diffeent logic then things change with adolesenbce and puberty and so on

@SreeCharan @Seeker @ChinmaySarupria its funny that these advaitins talk of pratyaksha pramaan but refuse to accept whole world in front of them as real and pratyaksh :)

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi I can only use my logic for certain things. Not for everything. For example, i can't say with logic which school has correct interpretation of Veda. Your logic says one school is correct and my logic says other school is correct. We take debates over them which is of no use.

Rakesh Joshi

@TheDestroyer that is what you have accepted from your mind that advaita makes sense to you so that is your logic
VA and Dwaita dont suit your logic . as simple as that

Seeker

6:37 PM

@RakeshJoshi There are many choices, what else can one do. Picking up the truth is the most difficult thing today.

Chinmay Sarupria

Sri Ramakrishna used to say "There are various paths to reach God", you can go to the roof by stairs or by helicopter or by tree, different paths will lead to same reality in end.

Rakesh Joshi

@TheDestroyer @SreeCharan @Seeker
My logic says ALL THE SCHOOLS OF VEDANTA are not correct because everryone claims the lineage from vyasa and narayana and it is IMPOSSIBLE that vyasa would have taught such different and contradictory vedanta to his pupil.

Seeker

Oh. 😯😓

Chinmay Sarupria

Different schools are stepping stones to final reality, at the start it is like Dvaita, were God and devotee is different, then there is Visistadvaita where devotee is part of God and the final stage - Advaita, where one realizes that God alone exists.

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi But still knowing it, why do you repeatedly mock Vedanta?

Rakesh Joshi

6:41 PM

@TheDestroyer Sankara knew that ritualism is not correct path for enlightnement .. why he kept on debating and arguing with every one across india ?

Chinmay Sarupria

Because it was the requirement of that time.

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi Yes. It was required at that time.

Rakesh Joshi

@ChinmaySarupria then THIS is the requirement of PRESENT

Chinmay Sarupria

this? what's this?

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi Unity of Hinduism and fight Semitic religions.

It is the present requirement.

Rakesh Joshi

6:43 PM

no unity was obtained instead hinduism got devided into poorva and uttara mimamsa etc

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi There are no wars in Hinduism like Sunni Shia and Wahabi Sunni..

Rakesh Joshi

how will you achieve unity by preaching illusionary world conceot ?

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi I didn't say i will unite by advaita.

Chinmay Sarupria

beyong that illusion exists one undivided bliss of consciousness, that is true unity.

*beyond

Rakesh Joshi

@TheDestroyer why you think that small group of people like 59 -100 people came india and ruled for centuries ?

The Destroyer

6:45 PM

@RakeshJoshi I don't know. How did they do it?

Rakesh Joshi

because of this sluggish nature of hindus ....
what we can do ?
its gods wish
invaders are due to kali yuga we cant help
let god save us

Chinmay Sarupria

It was the will of God, Islam was founded in 600 AD and by 1100 AD, they had already come to India.

Rakesh Joshi

too much of ahimsa not good

@TheDestroyer see still people are saying its will of god ..
now future invaders will also be will of god :) @Seeker

this notion has destroyed india.

Chinmay Sarupria

People of Bhutan are the happiest people in world due to their simple thinking - if something can be solved, it will be solved eventually and if it cannot be, then there is no need to worry.

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi Yes. Harihara Bukkaraya was sluggish and established Vijayanagara Empire, Chatrapati Shivaji was sluggish and founded Marata Empire.

Seeker

6:48 PM

Right. We all are God. We have to take our lives in our own hands.

Rakesh Joshi

@Seeker @TheDestroyer no god is coming to come from heaven . no avatar is going to save you, do your work YOURSELF and do it NOW

DO NOT WAIT FOR SOME MESIAH

this spiritual slavery is dangerous

Chinmay Sarupria

Our goal is Moksha, we must strive towards that goal, a similar question was asked by Paramahansa Yogananda to god directly about why world war was happening at that time and what about the millions of people died, I forgot the name of book

Rakesh Joshi

smal small colonies came to india and ruled for centuries

Seeker

We all are Shiva equipped with Anava, Karma, & Mayiyi Mala, then why should we dependent on someone else for our protection? Why not to find our own divinity and be independent?

Rakesh Joshi

@ChinmaySarupria moksha is far thing first think of life @TheDestroyer and @Seeker what you people say ?

The Destroyer

6:50 PM

@RakeshJoshi God won't come Physically always. He will definitely help us indirectly.

Seeker

Yes. @RakeshJoshi sir. I have motto regarding this on About me block. :)

Chinmay Sarupria

A child doesn't take birth immediately, he/she takes 9 months, similarly we must start now if we want Moksha.

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi If we are sincere for Moksha, rest all things come to us automatically.

Rakesh Joshi

@ChinmaySarupria then what point of talking of swami vivekanand ? he was ardent freedm fighter

@TheDestroyer you decide first you want hindu unity against semetic religion or moksha first.

Chinmay Sarupria

As I said, he wasn't material freedom fighter, he was spiritual freedom fighter.

The Destroyer

6:54 PM

@RakeshJoshi Hindu Unity won't depend on me alone, it should come from every Hindu.

Rakesh Joshi

blaming fate or blaming kali yuga or waiting for miralces is not going to help, we are ourselves responsiblke,
for example we have created plastic and pollution holoucast now we cannot say to god that its his wish .. we have to face consequences, @Seeker @TheDestroyer

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi Ultimate goal Moksha with preserving Dharma while living on this earth.

Rakesh Joshi

Vijjay nagar empire and shivaji not wished for moksha first their goal is maratha empire first @TheDestroyer

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi Did they say you?

@RakeshJoshi Do you know how Vijayanagara Empire was established?

Chinmay Sarupria

@RakeshJoshi Shivaji was avatar of Shiva.

Rakesh Joshi

6:56 PM

@ChinmaySarupria not only him . Maharana pratap was also incarnation and so was peshwa bajirao ballad.

Chinmay Sarupria

@RakeshJoshi I don't think so, some people are incarnation, some have been specifically chosen for some purposes.

Rakesh Joshi

Narendra modi also amsha avatar.

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi Sri Vidranaya, Jagadguru of Sringeri Sarada Peetam helped Harihara and Bukka to establish Great Empire of Viajayanagara.

Rakesh Joshi

so what wrong in it ?@TheDestroyer

Seeker

@RakeshJoshi Hilarious. 😂😂😂😂

The Destroyer

7:00 PM

@RakeshJoshi If there was Vidyarnya, South India wouldn't preserve it's Hindu tradition,

Chinmay Sarupria

I am not sure about him being amsha avatar but definitely he is the chosen one to uplift India, before 2014 India was going downwards and other parties were only interested in appeasement policies but then came this man, rose like a full moon, crushing the amavasya and now you can see India is again on the right path.

Rakesh Joshi

Bheemrao ambedkar also avatar

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi They definitely had Advaita Influence on them. How can you say they didn't aim for Moksha?

Chinmay Sarupria

Avatars are the one who do something on a very big scale.

Rakesh Joshi

all kings would have had some kind of religious influence

The Destroyer

7:02 PM

@RakeshJoshi See the speed at which Marata Empire under Shivaji expanded. You will understand about greatness of Shivaji.

Seeker

Greatness of Shivaji no doubt. But he is definitely not an Avatar. @TheDestroyer @ChinmaySarupria.

Chinmay Sarupria

Swami Vivekananda said Shivaji was Rudra avatar.

Seeker

These things make other religions to mock at Hinduism.

The Destroyer

@Seeker Both of us can't be sure either.

Rakesh Joshi

then ghoris and babars were even greater in invading and ruling aforeign land like india .. they must also have had blessing of vishnu then ? @Seeker @TheDestroyer

Chinmay Sarupria

7:03 PM

Karma takes care of everything.

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi Not blessings may be. But they invaded at will of Vishnu. You should read Puranas to understand such things.

Karma is responsible for everything.

Rakesh Joshi

so every big king was blessed by vishnu why to talk of shiva ji alone

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi Hinduism says good and bad both are part of Brahman unlike other religions.

Chinmay Sarupria

Not every avatara is Krishna, similarly not every king is Shivaji.

Rakesh Joshi

Shivaji was a dacoit .. he did mass robbery in south gujarat and robbed and burnt many houses to collect funds to fight against mughal @Seeker @TheDestroyer

The Destroyer

7:05 PM

@RakeshJoshi Source please?

Rakesh Joshi

google it ... and see wiki . he did brutality in Surat and nearby region

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi I don't trust wiki. Tell me book and author name.

Chinmay Sarupria

Wikipedia isn't considered trusted source on this site.

Rakesh Joshi

for maratha peopl;e he is god but not for others

Seeker

@RakeshJoshi In Maharashtra, there are temples of him as well. 😯

Chinmay Sarupria

7:07 PM

Even Mamata Banerjee praised Shivaji lol.

Rakesh Joshi

Surat was ransacked twice, once in 1664 and later in 1670. The reasons were different from each other for both the raids.

First raid on Surat: January 05, 1664.

Chinmay Sarupria

Good Night :)

Rakesh Joshi

The 17th century was an era of the prosperity for the city of Surat.Surat was a commercial emporium, besides such commodities as indigo, spices and Diamonds were brought to Surat from capital cities known for particular commodities.

This Surat was under control of Mughal Empire of Aurangzeb & Shivaji Maharaj Plundered Surat 2 Times -

1) 5 Jan 1664 - Shivaji Maharaj with entered with his army into Surat. He asked most of the merchants for ransom. Those who refused to give ransom , Shivaji Maharaj forcibly recovered from them. 4 days Shivaji Maharaj was there in Surat and returned with Cror…

Seeker

Okay even if he was a good king still we should stick to the Vedas and not worship kings. Though we can give huge respect.

Transcript for