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00:04
Spectral decomposition, version 1: For a symmetric $A \in M_n(\mathbb R)$, there exists an orthogonal $T \in O_n(\mathbb R)$ with $T^{\operatorname{tr}} \cdot A \cdot T = I_n$.
Spectral decomposition, version 2: Let $(V, \beta)$ be an Euclidean space and $\varphi \in \operatorname{End}(V)$ self-adjoint. Then there exists an orthonormal basis of $V$ (w.r.t. $\beta$) that consists of eigenvectors of $\varphi$.
I want to match each component from version 1 to version 2.
'symmetric $A$' corresponds to '$\varphi \in \operatorname{End}(V)$ self-adjoint', right?
yes, why is it?
00:24
$M_B(\varphi^*) = G^{-1} \cdot M_B(\varphi)^{\operatorname{tr}} \cdot G = M_B(\varphi)^{\operatorname{tr}}$ and since $\varphi = \varphi^*$, we get that $M_B(\varphi)$ is symmetric
 
4 hours later…
that is sad
0
Q: Does a bundle $\mathcal V_{\Gamma}$ tell us something about $\zeta_{\Gamma}(u)$?

ModularMindsetFrom what I understand the Ihara zeta function, $\zeta_{\Gamma}(u)$, is obtained from a graph (or multigraph $\Gamma$) irrespective of an embedding. So, what changes if $\Gamma$ is embedded in $\Bbb R^3$ as a topological multigraph (i.e. edges are smooth curves)? How would this affect a meromorph...

Anyone familiar with this?
04:27
modular: no, but it is not apparent to me even on a formal level that the purported definition on en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ihara_zeta_function that zeta_Gamma(u) would depend in any way on an embedding of Gamma. the formula depends only on adjacency relationships in Gamma
so as a first stab at an answer to "what changes if Gamma is embedded in ..." i would guess "nothing"
04:39
okay @leslietownes
Does $\mathcal V_{\Gamma}$ or a complexification of $\mathcal V_{\Gamma}$ tell us anything about $\zeta_{\Gamma}(u)?$
i don't know. again, without looking into it, i don't see how "With smooth edges we can enrich gamma with a line bundle V gamma" defines a bundle, or even gestures toward some class of equivalent bundles under some unspecified notion of equivalence. in general, the same base can admit multiple line bundles, even if you allow yourself to regard different bundles as "the same" up to various natural notions of equivalence.
so how does "with smooth edges we can enrich" single one out, if Gamma is just an arbitrary graph?
offhand i'm not sure that i know very much, if anything, about bundles over base spaces that might not be manifolds, which embeddings of graphs in R^3 generally won't be
so i just don't know. it seems like an underspecified problem, or i am just outside of whatever audience can engage with this problem
05:35
"Bertrand Russell noted that, "The man who says, 'I am telling a lie of order n' is telling a lie, but a lie of order n+1"
I would like to discuss paradoxes.
05:51
Hi
Having a difficult time ATM dk why something seems different with me. Many of those interested in math have entirely different approach and values than I do
Is becoming a bit much to handle
-1/12 on the neurodivergent scale
 
2 hours later…
08:24
It is claimed in my book that it is easy to verify that $$A=\mathbb R\times\cdots\times\mathbb R\times (-\infty,a]\times\mathbb R\times\cdots\times\mathbb R$$with $a\in\mathbb R$ is a generating set of the Borel $\sigma$-algebra $\mathcal B(\mathbb R^n)$. I know $(-\infty,a]$ generates $\mathcal B(\mathbb R)$, but how can I verify that sets of the form $A$ generate $\mathcal B(\mathbb R^n)$?
@psie if you have sets like $A$, then you have sets for which you can replace $(-\infty, a]$ with $(-\infty, a)$
and by taking complements you have ones for which you can replace $(-\infty, a]$ with $(a, \infty)$
so you can replace $(-\infty, a]$ with any open interval, and so you can replace it by any open set
Now sets of the form like $A$ but with $(-\infty, a]$ replaced by an open set, all sets of that form are a subbasis of $\mathbb{R}^n$
in other words, they generate topology of $\mathbb{R}^n$
finite intersections of them form a basis for the topology of $\mathbb{R}^n$, and every open set of $\mathbb{R}^n$ is a countable union of such sets
so sets of this form can generate you all open subsets of $\mathbb{R}^n$, and so they generate the Borel $\sigma$-algebra
@Jakobian here by "generate" I mean generate as a topology
ok 👍
words such as "second countable" or "Lindelof" come to mind
for example, if $U\subseteq \mathbb{R}^n$ and $U = \bigcup_{i\in I} U_i$ where $U_i$ are open, then we have a countable subfamily $I_0\subseteq I$ such that $U = \bigcup_{i\in I_0} U_i$
but you can justify those unions are countable in whichever way you like, of course
my way would be by saying that every subspace of $\mathbb{R}^n$ is a separable metric space, and so it's Lindelof
not saying this is most efficient, but it's what "jumps at me"
08:39
@Jakobian ok, so what you wrote here is a consequence of the fact that $A$ is Lindelof, right?
@psie that $U$ is Lindelof
ah ok
@Jakobian sorry to ask again, but I still struggle with putting the pieces together. I don't see the connection between what you wrote here and the set $A$. Do you think you could tell me once again?
Lindelof to me means every open cover of a second-countable metric space $X$ has a countable subcover.
Which I think is what you mean too.
But I don't see the connection to the set $A$.
@psie that's not what it means
Lindelof means that every open cover has a countable subcover
Whetever its a second countable space, or metric space, doesn't matter
What matters is that every separable metric space (or what is the same, second countable metric space) is Lindelof
yes
08:55
@psie if you don't see the connection then you haven't started writing out why those sets generate the Borel sigma-algebra, and you should do that
@Jakobian what's the difference between a subbasis and a basis?
You take finite intersections and arbitrary union of elements of subbasis to generate the topology, for basis you only take arbitrary unions
@SoumikMukherjee so $\mathbb R\times\mathbb R\times\cdots\times U\times\cdots\times\mathbb R$, where $U$ is open, is a subbasis for $\mathbb R^n$?
all sets of this form are a subbasis for $\mathbb{R}^n$, yes
35 mins ago, by Jakobian
Now sets of the form like $A$ but with $(-\infty, a]$ replaced by an open set, all sets of that form are a subbasis of $\mathbb{R}^n$
this is also something I mentioned in here, in case you missed that
by all sets of that form, I mean not only when $U$ is in one fixed position, but also in first, second, third, and $n$th place
Finite intersections of such sets are of the form $U_1\times U_2\times ...\times U_n$ where $U_k$ are open
@Jakobian Ok, so do you think my book means the same? I.e. that sets of the form $A$, with $(-\infty,a]$ not only in one fixed position (but in the first, second, etc.) generate the Borel sigma algebra?
I'm not really sure how to write down such a collection of sets efficiently :)
probably would have been much better to write $$A=\mathbb R\times\cdots\times\mathbb R\times U_i\times\mathbb R\times\cdots\times\mathbb R$$with $U_i=(-\infty,a]$ for $1\leq i\leq n$ and $a\in\mathbb R$.
@Jakobian by the way, how come we can replace $(-\infty,a]$ with $(-\infty,a)$?
09:17
@psie of course that's what they mean
ah ok
@psie I wouldn't use $U_i$ as that reminds you of an open set, maybe $A_i$ instead, but sure
@psie how do you write $(-\infty, a)$ as a union of sets of the form $(-\infty, a]$
if you are asking me this question, then have you thought about it before you asked?
@Jakobian we have $\bigcup_{n\in\mathbb N} (-\infty,a-1/n]=(-\infty,a)$ but $A\times B\cup C\times D\neq (A\cup C)\times (B\cup D)$
I don't know what you mean by the latter
I think you mean that there exist $A, B, C, D$ for which the equality doesn't hold
but the point you are missing is that in this case it does hold - why?
@Jakobian for $n=2$, we have $A=\mathbb R\times (-\infty,a]$. And you are hinting at taking the union over $j\in\mathbb N$ of $\mathbb R\times (-\infty,a-1/j]$ to obtain $\mathbb R\times (-\infty,a)$, is that correct?
09:25
If $\pi_i:\mathbb{R}^n\to\mathbb{R}$ is a projection onto $i$th coordinate, then the sets you are considering here are basically preimages of $\pi_i$
And preimages preserve pretty much all types of set-theoretic operations
@psie if you're using the index i then you should write A=R\times...\timesR(i-1 times)\timesU_i\timesR\times...\timesR(n-i+1 times)
 
2 hours later…
11:07
Hi all
Anyone got thoughts on this bountied question? math.stackexchange.com/questions/5015253/…
 
2 hours later…
12:46
4 hours ago, by Jakobian
finite intersections of them form a basis for the topology of $\mathbb{R}^n$, and every open set of $\mathbb{R}^n$ is a countable union of such sets
@Jakobian I'm still stuck on a little detail. Here's what I've understood so far. We have $\sigma(\mathcal C)$ where $\mathcal C$ is the collection of all sets of the form $A$. You've shown that we can replace $(-\infty,a]$ with any open set of $\mathbb R$ in the definition of $A$. So since $\sigma(\mathcal C)$ is a $\sigma$-algebra, it contains the subbase, but it doesn't contain the open sets, right?
Those might be arbitrary unions of the subbase elements, not countable unions. Grateful if you could clarify :)
 
2 hours later…
14:26
If $U$, $V$ are orthogonal matrices and $S$ diagonal and $u_i$, $v_i$ are the columns, then why is $$U \cdot S \cdot V^{\operatorname{tr}} = \sum_{i = 1}^n u_i \cdot s_{ii} \cdot v_i^{\operatorname{tr}}?$$
Shouldn't $u_i$ be the rows instead?
the formula seems correct to me
@Thorgott Why are we multiplying two columns?
@psie did you figure it out already
no :(
$u_i$ is a column, $v_i^t$ is a row vector, no?
14:37
So what do you agree with
Do you agree with sets of the form $U_1\times ...\times U_n$ where $U_i$ are open being in $\sigma(\mathcal{C})$
@Thorgott $v_i^t$ is the $i$-th row of $V$, i.e. the $i$th column of $V^{\operatorname{tr}}$
those are different things
@Jakobian yes, I agree with that finite intersections of the subbase elements form a base, and those are in $\sigma(\mathcal C)$, but some open sets might be arbitrary unions of the base elements, no?
they are transposes of another
and here you want to consider $v_i^t$ as a row vector
otherwise the dimensions don't match up
@psie can any of these open sets be an uncountable union of basis sets, but not countable one?
14:40
@Thorgott Yes, $v_i^t$ is the $i$th row of $V^t$
as a row vector
But then it's still backwards?
We multiply $U \cdot S \cdot V^t$
@Jakobian let me check my topology book, a second :)
@psie what for
you won't find the answer there
We want a row from $U$ and a column from $S$, no? @Thorgott
Then we get a column
Then we need a row from $V^t$
So we get some matrix
$u_i$ is a column vector, $v_i^t$ is a row vector, their product is a square matrix
Yes the multiplication works, I'm just saying isn't it backwards?
We want a row from $U$
Not a column
That's how matrix multiplication of $U \cdot$ anything is defined
14:44
6 hours ago, by Jakobian
for example, if $U\subseteq \mathbb{R}^n$ and $U = \bigcup_{i\in I} U_i$ where $U_i$ are open, then we have a countable subfamily $I_0\subseteq I$ such that $U = \bigcup_{i\in I_0} U_i$
it feels odd to me because I literally told you the answer before, so I'm not sure if its an issue of not being able to connect two things with each other, or just really bad memory
we even had discussion that justified why this is true
if you look at the $(a,b)$-entry of $u_i\cdot v_i^t$ (let's ignore the scalar factor coming from $S$), it is $u_{ai}v_{bi}$
so as $i$ goes from $1$ to $n$, $u_{ai}$ runs through the entire $a$-th row, as desired
proved that when $X$ has order topology, the order topology on $Y \subseteq X$ for a convex subset $Y$ is the same as the subspace topology of $Y$. Going via basis took a lot of cases, like 10+ cases
but going via subbasis was like 3 or 4
sounds about right
you should give an example when the two are different, if you haven't already
you should also note the other important case when both topologies coincide, that is when $Y$ is dense in $X$
e.g. $\mathbb{Q}\subseteq \mathbb{R}$ has the same topology, whetever you give it subspace or order topology
ohh, that's cool
15:02
@nickbros123 yeah, I think 3 suffices
 
1 hour later…
16:32
Let $\varphi: \mathbb R^n \to \mathbb R^n$ with $y \mapsto T \cdot y + u$ where $T$ is an orthogonal matrix and $u$ a vector. Then for all $x \in \mathbb R^n$, we have $x = \varphi(y)$ for some $y$. Why is this? My book just claims it without any proof.
We know that $||\varphi(x) - \varphi(y)|| = ||x - y||$ and $||T \cdot x|| = ||x||$.
@ILikeMathematics easiest way to see this is that $T$ is injective so it must map $\mathbb{R}^n$ to itself
because of dimension issues
Ah
Thanks!
I guess we can also argue it is bijective by giving $\varphi^{-1}$ with $y \mapsto T^t \cdot y - T^t \cdot u$
 
2 hours later…
18:29
ilike: something like that will work. it is still using finite dimensionality in that the orthogonality condition is that T^t T = I, while the verification of varphi(y) = x, when y is given by that formula for the putative phi^{-1} applied to x, uses the operator identity T T^t = I, and while AB = I does imply BA = I when A, B are operators on R^n, this would not necessarily follow for operators A, B on more general spaces.
so there is no escaping jakobian's "dimension issues" even if one offers a symbolic formula for the inverse mapping, they are baked into that formula
18:47
@ILikeMathematics it's like maps between finite sets. If its injective, its surjective too
19:17
@Jakobian BO-RING!
@XanderHenderson and here you say you don't like abstract algebra. What is that about rings?
19:35
@Jakobian They're boring. :P
Bml
Bml
20:13
Hi everyone. What techniques can I use to analyze the behavior of the series $\sum_{n=1}^{\infty} e^{n + \frac{1}{3^n}} - e^n$ using the asymptotic comparison test?
@Bml What is the "asymptotic comparison test"?
i would be inclined to express the nth term as e^n (e^(1/3^n) - 1) and to recall that if f is differentiable at 0 and a_n is a nonzero sequence that goes to 0 then (f(a_n) - f(0))/a_n could be expected to go to f'(0)
and i can do this despite having no idea what the asymptotic comparison test is
i'm guessing some form of what my college calculus book (stewart calculus early transcendentals) would have called the limit comparison test
but i don't need to have that guess validated to have those thoughts
@leslietownes Sure. But if I am asked to use a specific tool, I want to know what that tool is before I proceed. :P
i meant my internal monologue to be for the benefit and potential future use of bml, and not to be an implicit criticism of your response
Heh. Okay. I take back my ire, then. :P
(Much of that ire is related to the fact that I am at my sister's house right now, and without paper and pencil to work things through... I have spent a lot of time with math.stackexchange.com/q/5017458, but I really need paper-and-pencil to make real progress.)
20:23
ooh, i would want to experiment via software simulation. which i am ill situated to do on this device
so i share your ire for different reasons
Yeah, that too. I am to the point where I think that brute force one a computer might be the right way to go.
I thought I had a nice inductive argument based on the number of turns remaining, but it turns out that it also depends on how many more red balls there are than blue balls (huh huh huh... you said "blue balls").
I can't keep it all straight without paper and pencil. :(
20:38
thats what she said
21:03
asymptotic comparison test is probably something like: if $a_n,b_n>0$ and $a_n\sim b_n$ then $\sum a_n$ and $\sum b_n$ have the same behaviour
@SineoftheTime Sure... that is my guess, thought you would need to define $\sim$ a bit more precisely.
sounds a whole lot like stewart's "limit comparison test" to me :)
yeah
but using asymptotics you can choose which is the optimal function to use in the comparison test
i would encourage students of this kind of thing to be inclined to see little or no difference between "using asymptotics" and something like stewart's limit comparison test. i think of them as the same thing in different languages
not one as a route to the other
but it is certainly a valuable insight for students to be able to see "~" on wikipedia and translate it into limit-ese
Of course, @Bml never responded to anyone, so who knows what they were on about?
21:09
i guess my initial remark is a kind of reverse, to translate my limit-ese back into whatever the 'asymptotic comparison' framing is
 
1 hour later…
22:22
1
A: Optimal strategy for 1-player "snowball" game

RobPrattYou can solve this as a Markov decision problem (stochastic dynamic programming) as follows. Let $D = \{\text{blue}, \text{red}\}$ be the set of two possible draws. Given $n$, let the states be $$\{(k,b,r,d): k \in \{0,\dots,n\}, b \in \{1,\dots,n+1\}, r \in \{1,\dots,n-k+2-b\}, d \in D\},$$ wh...

Is this your mirror account :-)
22:38
@think_meaning_buildß No? What are you talking about?
nothing, just a bad joke

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