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00:59
Yesterday I learned how to use SymPy. Heck, that particular calculus problem was too savage anyway.
 
9 hours later…
09:39
@Thorgott oof, just noticed a big error in my definition. You want to take closed, discrete countable subset, not just closed and discrete
 
6 hours later…
15:44
well, that only makes it more general
Joe
Joe
16:20
@XanderHenderson I think arguments involving transfinite induction can be a little subtle, especially if you are proving that a statement is true for all ordinals. Then, your proof will likely informally use proper classes rather than sets, and convincing yourself that the proof can be translated into the language of ZFC can be a little painful.
Joe
Joe
16:37
Even in the case of more down to earth kinds of induction/recursion, there can be subleties. For example, consider the statement: if $R$ is a ring in which there is no strictly ascending chain of ideals $I_1\subsetneq I_2\subsetneq I_3\subsetneq\dots$, then every ideal of $R$ is finitely generated.
The usual argument would be as follows: suppose $R$ has an ideal $I$ which is not finitely generated. Pick an element $x_0\in I$. Then, $\{x_0\}$ does not generate $I$, so we can pick an element $x_1\in I\setminus\langle x_0\rangle$. Then, $\{x_0,x_1\}$ does not generate $I$, so we can pick an element $x_2\in I\setminus\langle x_0,x_1\rangle$. Continuing in this manner, we obtain a strictly ascending chain of ideals; contradiction.
I feel that the gap between this informal argument (that would almost unanimously be accepted as correct by mathematicians), and how the formal proof goes is quite large. For one thing, the "continuing in this manner" hides a lot of metamathematical subtleties.
Proofs can't be infinitely long, and so we certainly cannot "continue" in any literal sense of the word. Turning this into a formal proof would require you to pick a well-ordering of $R$, or perhaps pick a choice function on $\mathcal P(R)\setminus\{\varnothing\}$, and it would probably also require the use of the recursion theorem, which is also not completely trivial.
16:57
i.sstatic.net/LER1aFdr.png,hello guys i have a question, how is this E.S.T but with Tylor expansion it's 1
also most arguments involving transfinite induction can be re-written in terms of Zorn's lemma
@Malka isn't $\xi=\frac{1-x}{\epsilon}$ ?
Joe
Joe
@Thorgott: Indeed, and even Zorn's lemma can be proved without transfinite induction. The first proof of Zorn's lemma I read was in Halmos's book Naive Set Theory, and at that stage in the book Halmos hadn't even introduced ordinals. The result was a proof that I personally found to be horribly unintuitive and technical.
@SineoftheTime it is
around which point are you expanding?
17:09
x=1
I'm not understaning
why there's $O(\epsilon^2)$ and not $O(x^2)$
never mind i got it , thanks
 
2 hours later…
19:37
I want to show that $$\beta(Y, Y') = \begin{cases} 0 & \text{if $|Y \cap Y'|$ is even} \\ 1 & \text{otherwise} \end{cases}$$ is linear in the first argument ($\beta(Y + Y', Z) = \beta(Y, Z) + \beta(Y', Z)$) where $+$ is the symmetric difference ($Y + Z = (Y \cup Z) \setminus (Y \cap Z)$).
I got to $$\beta(Y + Y', Z) = \begin{cases} 0 & \text{if $|(Y\cap Z) \setminus Y' \ \ \cup \ \ (Y' \cap Z) \setminus Y|$ even} \\ 1 & \text{otherwise}\end{cases}$$
While $$\beta(Y, Z) + \beta(Y', Z) = \begin{cases} 0 & \text{if $\Big(|Y \cap Z|$ and $|Y' \cap Z|$ are even$\Big)$ or both are odd } \\ 1 & \text{otherwise} \end{cases}$$
Now we somehow need to match these two
Any ideas?
Assume that both $|Y \cap Z|$ and $|Y' \cap Z|$ are even. Can we say anything about $|Y|, |Y'|, |Z|$?
19:53
my recommendation is to draw a Venn diagram
@Thorgott Well but we are dealing with the number of elements here
well, different people think about math in different ways
it became obvious to me after drawing a Venn diagram, might not work for you
@Thorgott Can you show me your Venn diagram please?
it looks like that, yes
This can give us another expression for $\beta(Y + Y', Z)$, but we don't want that anymore, do we?
We want some arguments about parity
Ok, actually, this is good yes
The red parts are the first expression
The two terms in the second represent one part of the red each
If they are both even, then because red doesn't have any overlaps, it will be even aswell
If one is odd, it will be odd
Odd and odd becomes even
@Thorgott But we still need some formal argument
20:25
Ok, I did it, thank you Thor!
20:46
does topological graph theory meet with stratified spaces?
in particular a 1-strata as a topological graph or multigraph?
 
1 hour later…
22:03
@ModularMindset Yes, but they're tryin got keep it quiet. Their parents don't approve.
22:42
I am surprised my simple looking question with a bounty hasn't had much love!
@XanderHenderson lol :P
@Simd Huh... Costello responded in the comments. I took a class from him once.
23:00
@XanderHenderson what was he like?
@XanderHenderson I had assumed it would be really easy for an expert. Do you think it's actually a hard question?
Hi, I have some questions about recreational math. How to get started, where to find the resources, etc? Also happy to hear from anyone with experience in math competition. How do you find university math/recreational math?
23:24
@Ancient there are some good books
@Simd I mean, he was a guy...
@XanderHenderson do you think the question is difficult?
@Simd It is not my area. I have no idea.
@XanderHenderson what is your area?
Geometry?
Fractal Algebra?
23:28
@Simd Fractal geometry and analysis on fractals. I also do a little bit of $p$-adic analysis, and am probably slightly more knowledgable than most on random walks and Brownian motion.
@ModularMindset Gross. Don't get your disgusting nonsense involved in my beautiful analysis.
@XanderHenderson thanks. I am not sure what skills my question really needs other than simple probability
@XanderHenderson Can you elaborate? :P
I'm not sure I follow
@ModularMindset :P
Left my phone in a rideshare vehicle
but I managed to lure the driver back
yay!
@ModularMindset how??
23:35
@Simd Again, it isn't really my area. But anything involving the distribution of primes is probably going to require a better working knowledge of number theory. There is also the issue of things like the prime number theorem being asymptotic, and not really saying a ton about any finite collection of numbers.
@Simd I activated "lost mode" on find my iphone from my computer and was able to send 1 message to the driver
do the prominent members in the field of fractal geometry do fractal analysis on the complex p?
@ModularMindset What is the "complex p"?
complex plane
I don't know what it would me to do "fractal analysis on the complex plane".
The questions that I am most interested in have to do with analogs to the heat equation on sets with fractal properties.
yes it would be more like complex iterative dynamical systems (as opposed to fractal analysis on the complex plane)
23:46
@ModularMindset I'm not super interested in dynamical systems.
@XanderHenderson are these "analogs" of the heat equation of the same general form of the usual heat equation?
could you type an analog out for us to see?
oh i think I found it on the web
@ModularMindset In the usual setting Euclidean / Cartesian setting the heat equation is given by $\lambda u_t = \Delta x$, n'est-ce pas? Consider this on some open subset of $\mathbb{R}^n$, and assume Dirichlet boundary conditions (i.e. solutions vanish at the boundary). Solutions to this equation can be obtained via the spectrum of the Dirichlet operator.
When speaking of an euclidean space $(V, \beta)$, we require our bilinear $\beta$ to be symmetric, right?
So, what if you can use the geometry of the set itself to obtain that spectrum?
@XanderHenderson $$\frac{\partial T}{\partial t}=k\nabla^{\alpha} T $$ like this? where the RHS involves the fractional laplacian where $\alpha$ is the fractal dim.?
23:55
My phd advisor's big idea was that you can associate a kind of "geometric zeta function" to a bounded set in $\mathbb{R}^n$---this function "sees" the geometry of the set. The Mellin transform of this zeta function (under certain hypotheses) is a spectral zeta function---the poles of the spectral zeta function are the spectrum of the Dirichlet operator.
My own work sought to push that idea to metric measure spaces with fairly general hypotheses (basically, as long as the Assouad dimension is finite, a lot of the theory pushes through nicely).
@ModularMindset No, not like that.
@ILikeMathematics I would only call it a Euclidean space if it's symmetric and positive-definite
@Thorgott Yes, that's what I wanted to hear, thank you!

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