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02:16
so noisy in here
02:36
Clang clang!
ssshhhh i'm hunting wabbits
2
That’s Munchkin’s Easter job.
02:56
How do I show that $(\bar x, \bar z)$ is a prime ideal in $Q[x,y,z]/(xy-z^2)$? I proceeded as $\bar a \bar b\in (\bar x, \bar x)\implies \bar a \bar b= r \bar x+ s\bar z\implies ab-rx-sz \in (xy-z^2)$
But I see no way forward from here in showing that one of $\bar a$ or $\bar b$ lies in $(\bar x, \bar z)$
Here ‘bar’ denotes passage from $Q[x,y,z]$ to the quotient $Q[x,y,z]/(xy-z^2)$.
03:23
3
Q: Surjective homomorphism from $k[x,y,z]/(xy-z^2) $ onto $ k[y]$

Rudy the ReindeerThis is a question related to this question here. Can you tell me if this is right: I'd like to define a surjective homomorphism from $k[x,y,z]/(xy-z^2)$ onto $k[y]$ with kernel $(\bar{x}, \bar{z})$. To this end I define $$ f: p(x,y,z) + (xy-z^2) \mapsto p(0,y, 0)$$ Then $f$ is surjective sinc...

03:44
Inspired by the idea, I wrote the following solution: $(xy-z^2)$ is an ideal of $(x,z)$. So by the third isomorphism theorem: $Q[x,y,z]/(xy-z^2)/(x,z)/(xy-z^2)\simeq Q[x,y,z]/(x,z)\simeq Q[y]$
Since $(x,z)/(xy-z^2)=(\bar x, \bar z)$, it follows that $(\bar x, \bar z)$ is a prime ideal of Q[x,y,z]/($xy-z^2)$.
The last isomorphism in the second line is achieved by defining a map that is identity of Q[y] and sends x,z to 0.
Your first sentence is dubious.
For any $t\in (xy-z^2)$, there exists $f(x,y,z)$ (let's denote it by $f$) such that $t=f(xy-z^2)=(fy)x+(-fz)z\in (x,z)$
It follows that $(xy-z^2)\subset (x,z)$.
@TedShifrin is this fine now?
 
1 hour later…
05:04
ideal is such an awful name.
ideal of clifford algebra
05:21
0
Q: What went wrong in finding kernel of $f(x,y)\mapsto f(t^2,t)$?

KoroSuppose that $F$ is a field and let $F[x,y]$ be a polynomial ring. The map $\phi: F[x,y]\to F[y]$, defined by $\phi(f(x,y))=f(y^2,y)$ has kernel $(y^2-x)$. I want to prove that the kernel is as the statement says. It is clear that $\phi(x)=y^2, \phi(y)=y.$ For any $u(x,y)\in (y^2-x)$, there exist...

05:34
huh. well it seems pretty clear that the polynomials a_j don't have to be the zero polynomials. for example (y^2) y^4 + (-y^4) y^2 = 0, but neither y^2 nor -y^4 is the zero polynomial so that just won't work.
i dunno how a geometer would handle this. have you tried dividing your a_n(x) y^n + ... + a_0(x) by y^2 - x? thinking of the division algorithm in K(x)[y]. that would give you a remainder to look at. i dunno.
@leslietownes I realized that error of mine. F is not given to be algebraically closed so I can't apply fundamental theorem of algebra :(.
@leslietownes amazing!!
well, even if F is algebraically closed you wouldn't get what you want from the given argument, because the 'coefficients' you want to be 0 don't come from F, they have ys in them. equating coefficients of all powers of y to 0 gives you just some goofy relations between the coefficients (in F) of the various a_j's.
unless i'm missing something.
It's easy to miss a wrasskully wabbit.
we went looking for rabbits this afternoon but didn't find any. we sometimes see them in a particular part of our neighborhood, so we went there. only a squirrel.
hmm, they must know it's wabbit season
05:44
Then any $f(x,y)\in \ker \phi$ can be written as $f(x,y)= k(x,y)(y^2-x)+a_2(x)y+a_1(x)$
That looks wrong. :(
i ran into a skunk yesterday in tilden
our coyote was back yesterday evening. we didn't go outside to say hi
foxes & coyotes have very strange noises.
@Koro somebody down voted the answer >8(
Honey badgers and mongooses are very rude. They are fearless and confront anyone.
@user85795 there is no downvote now.
05:51
I up voted it.
:)
I don't like "drive by" down voting
koro when i've seen the coyote he is chilled out. he might not be chilled out around a cat or a dog or a squirrel. or if he has rabies.
spooky sound
If I heard only the sound without knowing that it's fox's, I would think that to be a human laugh.
:)
upvotes and downvotes live in different spaces, one is not the negative of the other.
@Koro even though I know the sound for decades, when I hear foxes when backpacking it always spooks me a bit until I realise that it is a fox and not a human.
If one could see 'last seen' status of other users then that would reduce unexplained downvotes?
Because if someone was available just a minute ago, then the downvoter would think that if they dropped a comment, that will be answered.
If no last seen is available, then they might think that downvoting is easier as the answerer may not have been available in months/years.
But 'last seen' option used to be available in past and still unexplained downvotes happened. So that still remains unexplained.
unexplained downvotes are unexplained.
06:18
i don't mind downvotes if there is some explanation.
there's been discussion of this on meta. partial 'last seen' data is available but it is not very granular. personally i don't think the level of granularity really affects this very much on short time scales.
one i got a downvote because the downvoter accused me of trolling the OP (who found my answer amusing).
i probably wouldn't comment on a 5 year old post or answer, but i don't think last seen 'this week' or 'this month' vs. today would affect my behavior, if i bothered to look at that information, which i generally don't.
henning has left because of monic polynomials or something like that
cereal downvotes are the worst
those two sentences are in no way connected
i'm not active enough to have experienced that but the very occasional unexplained downvote is perplexing. (basically all of my answers are old answers)
06:23
every now and them i will get a few downvotes. usually mine is one of many answers and just mine gets the downvote.
i must have stepped on toes a few times.
I think henning's answers were attacked by a pack of drive-by down voters ...
he certainly did not appreciate my levity
he saw darkness where there was only a vast void
I don't know the user henning.
he's gone to monica land
3
06:26
all the convex questions are about 2d geometry, that's not real manly convex
I think she's trying to start a server on discord
it's surprising how much you can do with 2d geometry.
start fires?
i do play with my coxeter from time to time
you can't do much with 1d geometry :p
flat land
06:28
:)
incredibly boring book
:(
generally satire seems to be of that sort
but why? I read that book but not completely.
animal farm, 1984, etc tec
well, for me, it seemed like a cute idea but not deep enough for an entire book
now if they had gone into fractals...
06:30
Polytopes?
i'm reminded of a time SFMOMA had a thing on 'surrealist' painting. a whole floor of the museum was set aside for it. it turns out you only need to see like three or four to get the idea.
generally i have found 'mathy' books (not serious mathematics) to be fairly toneless
love & math by frenkel was so boring i think i actually died
i must say, the only art exhibition i have seen in the last few decades that i really enjoyed was magritte
have you seen his erotic film?
(frenkel, not magritte)
the sfmoma cafe (into which i brought food for my kids) had a sign that said "no food is to be consumed inside or outside the cafe". seemed a little threatening from a logical perspective. i have a picture somewhere.
think of a floor of people trying to be magritte and failing. and also if you're me, you don't like the pipe or the hat guy.
06:34
@leslietownes please tell me you're kidding
magritte had substance :-)
i mean kidding about frenkel and the film
no, it exists. well, i guess it's been described as erotic. i haven't seen it. that isn't my description.
he is partially nude in it. that's all i know. they had a screening or two in downtown berkeley after i left the bay area, and someone i knew emailed me about it.
i mean i can see the klein bottle making it to xhamster, but that would be the matemathical line
copper, have you watched a film called K.G.F. (Kolar Gold Fields)?
@Koro no, is it on netflix (my general level of culture is extremely low)
i have watched a few Indian movies, but mostly ones where huge numbers of people break out into synchronised dancing
i like this sort of stuff from magritte: renemagritte.org/the-human-condition-ii.jsp
it looks like KGF is on amazon prime in US, copper
06:41
i have prime but it seems that i still need to pay for movies
Looks like a blood diamond theme
yes, it's on amazon prime but not on netflix. It's on youtube also (but not in english :( I think).
looks like it's free with prime, at least for me. or i just bought it.
who knows.
i remember driving through south africa years ago and signs on the road indicated that you should not stop or harm may come to you
speaking of blood diamonds
diamonds are forever. some of the best bond lines in that one
Pre Mandela?
06:43
haha they had some signs like that in rough areas of london the last time i was there. by council estates. roughly: "don't stop here, people will knock you down and take your phone." maybe not that direct, but fairly offensive.
just around when apartheid ended. wonderful time
it was a bit odd, you could drive for hours on some roads and not meet anyone. made you wonder what would happen if the rental broke down
i would have taken a picture of one of the signs, but you know, didn't want to lose my camera.
and the diamond people came harvesting
i didn't bring a camera on the round the world trip
worth more than many people's yearly income at that stage, seemed inappropriate
London broke their all time record for stabbings/year during the pandemic
we had a crummy little digital camera at the time. i remember my wife had a flip phone. maybe we were less at risk than you and your fancy camera.
06:48
my 21 yo daughter wanders around london late at night after consuming many cocktails from time to time
Brave girl.
all i can hope is that that gentle thing will channel some of her irish genes if the situation calls for it
@leslietownes i just kept a diary, not recording devices
dad, i found this great place on canary wharf that serves 4 cocktails and tapas for ukp25
i used to spend time in hammersmith in my earlier years, my dad used to visit an abattoir there
at the time it was fairly rough around the edges, much as any equivalent place in ireland would have been
Is she taking sciences?
just finishing cs
coolio
06:52
yep, one advantage of a 3yr degree
i was hoping she was going to stay on and work for the City, but she is coming back to the poorly named sunnyvale
i never got to visit her while in the uk, unfortunately
on the plus side, you remain unstabbed
covid shut that one down
amazingly i have never actually been stabbed.
but i am very careful in limerick
stab city
i think the two places where i have felt most threatened in my life have been dublin (by a big margin) and belize city.
i grew up in the era of skin heads and corner boys (as my mother called them)
it was a fairly physical place to grow up in, thankfully things are tame now
because i couldn't extract myself from a wet paper bag anymore
dang, forgot to put the safety on my mouth
i've never felt too threatened anywhere. i don't really go out at night, though. in my old neighborhood in the east bay, violent things occasionally happened at night.
i was talking about broad daylight stuff above
yeah, i've never felt that. not visiting belize city any time soon, either.
07:00
mainstreet sort of stuff, not dark alleys
the rest of belize was in utter contrast
so i would just skip belize city
a bit like jo'burg
one of my friends was beat up in a laundromat for his laundry money, which i think meant that people were just looking to beat someone up. that was near my apartment, but it was also in the evening.
the evening is also when people would try to rob the corner store. best to avoid it.
hate that sort of stuff.
we lived for about a year in the upper floor of a farmhouse outside of ann arbor. that was actually creepier than living in a bad neighborhood in a city. if the downstairs tenant was gone (as he often was, he was there maybe two weekends a month) there was nobody around.
:-). city boy
we lived next to a graveyard, which was pretty cool, especially around halloween.
07:06
we had an old graveyard and a new graveyard nearby. i made some dare money going there around midnight. irish were a superstitious lot then
@Koro which is the 'first' KGF movie (if i were to watch in sequence)
ok, goodnight folks. need to get up early to make some potato salad :-)
a la molly katzen
08:09
@copper.hat it's called K.G.F. Chapter 1 (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K.G.F:_Chapter_1) and its second part was newly released recently.
goodnight :).
Looks too Bollywoodie for my taste :-)
08:30
:)
One of my friend in physics department had dropped the (introductory) matrix group course (undergraduate math course). And the reason why he dropped it is because he think that during the course instructor cover Lie algebra and some representation theory but rather instructor focus more on Lie group itself. What's interesting is that my friend didn't even take abstract algebra course (took linear algebra but didn't do very well). I don't know why he's so overestimate himself.
I found that many of physics department friend have some similar manner. I tried to give some advice to him but don't know what to say. I think he doesn't know the importance of base(?)
 
2 hours later…
10:46
@MatheusSousa This is very fast: An algorithm for computing logarithms and arctangents, by B. C. Carlson (1972). It's based on a modified arithmetic-geometric mean, so it requires square roots, but all other operations are rational, and it only uses trivial (binary power) divisions. You get better than 5 digits of precision for ln(2) from only 2 rounds.
This is a question from a past year question paper at my college:
Find $f(r)$ such that $\nabla f = \dfrac{\overrightarrow r}{r^5}$ and $f(1)=0$.
But I can't understand that if $r$ was a real, then how can we have $\nabla f$? I mean, isn't it just a function from $\Bbb R$ to $\Bbb R$?
@MatheusSousa Here's a short demo in Sage / Python:
@Silent They're being a bit sloppy. r is supposed to be a polar vector, so they should've written $f(\overrightarrow r)$.
But the r in the denominator of the gradient is a real number, the norm of the vector.
@PM2Ring Thank you very much :-) So, how should I interprete $f(1)$? As $f(1,...,1)$? Also, what should I think of domain of $f$? I mean $\Bbb R^n$ for which $n$?
11:05
@Silent Good point. :) I'm not sure. Let's see what Ted & the other regulars have to say. I suspect they'll say that the question is rubbish. ;)
ok :) thank you !!
OTOH, I guess the function is symmetric, so it doesn't matter which direction the unit vector in f(1) is pointing.
So we can reduce it to a plain real derivative, $\frac{df}{dr} = \frac1{r^4}$
 
1 hour later…
12:34
@copper.hat Monica's now on Codidact. codidact.org judaism.codidact.com/users/8046
They have a maths site, but it's not very busy, yet. math.codidact.com
13:20
@Silent solving the $\nabla f=\frac{\vec r}{r^5}$, I get $f=\frac13-\frac1{3r^3}$, but $f$ is operating on $\mathbb{R^n}$. This has $f\!\left(\vec r\right)=0$ when $r=1$ and $r=\left|\vec r\right|$
One could take $n=1$
I see that PM 2Ring has already clarified this some.
 
3 hours later…
15:53
@Koro Thanks!
@PM2Ring thanks! I didn't follow that whole episode.
16:21
@copper.hat Wise. It was like watching a train wreck.
16:37
Can someone tell me a source for "projective geometry for dummies"?
Like I don't get projective geometry
@robjohn Wow! thank you. How did you derive $f=\frac13-\frac1{3r^3}$?
@Silent Well, experience with the gradient of radial functions told me that since the gradient was proportional to $\frac1{r^4}$, the function should be proportional to $\frac1{r^3}$. We need the constant $-\frac13$ to make the result $\frac{\vec r}{r^5}$. The additive constant was to make it $0$ when $r=1$.
$\nabla f(r)=f'(r)\frac{\vec r}{r}$ where $r=\left|\,\vec r\,\right|$
This is the chain rule with $\nabla\left|\,\vec r\,\right|=\frac{\vec r}{\left|\,\vec r\,\right|}$
16:57
Thank you very much, sir!! This is a food for thought
Got it :-)
17:23
@MoreAnonymous Too vague. What are you having trouble with?
@TedShifrin I cant understand what the whole $RP^n$ notation means?
The book Im studying (the geometry of physics) rushes this part imo
Any book recommendation would be good?
Something a physics student can understand
if the book doesn't offer a definition, it may not be planning on engaging too much with that concept later. 'real' definitions might even be confusing. i don't know.
@leslietownes It does use it later a bit though ... However despite this hiccup with the book I still recommend it :) I feel there have been so many concepts I've been exposed to which are finally making sense
But what are they doing with it? Computing what?
I have stuff on projective geometry in a few sections of the last chapter of my algebra book, but it uses very little algebra — just basic linear algebra.
whenever you're off by a nonzero scalar, just say "this is OK because i'm working in projective space." 👍👍👍
17:35
$\Bbb RP^n$ is just the space of lines through the origin in $\Bbb R^{n+1}$. If you look at oriented lines it’s $S^n$.
This is an example of what is to come
Yes, now $\Bbb C$.
They’re going to do Chern classes of complex line bundles. Separate issue.
like whats a directed/oriented line?
If homogeneous coordinates is your stumbling block, those pages in my book may help give you examples and intuition. I cannot guess.
Okay ... whats the name of the book?
17:42
Every line can be oriented In two ways — choose a direction vector or take its negative.
@TedShifrin Ah havent come across that terminology before
Lemme re read it
I dont get when he says topologically $RP^2$ is $S^2$
No, that’s wrong.
If he says that precisely, it’s bad news.
It is true that $\Bbb RP^1$ is $S^1$.
Sorry I think Im butchering what hes daying
But that’s it.
17:47
yeah, the 'with antipodal points identified' is part of that.
ted saw the future.
You identify antipodal points on the sphere (back to my direction vector thing).
Much better.
Details matter!
sorry ...
what is the undirected line?
my daughter's piling a bunch of her clothing on the sofa in my office. running back and forth between my office and her room. she's calling the sofa her 'easter basket.' this is not part of any tradition that i know of.
Well, you get totally confused if you don’t pay attention to the important details.
@leslie Are eggs hatching?
we regifted her some jelly beans that her mother's aunt gave her the other day. they're in a plastic egg. maybe that's under the pile of clothes. i dunno.
17:49
I'm learning this the hard way :/

But its really hard to learn an entire topic on your own but your right if something doesnt make sense I'll re-read over again
Undirected means no choice of forward or backward … so you identify direction vectors $v$ and $-v$.
@leslietownes Will the plastic egg crack if she puts too much weight? (I think shes building a nest and shes gonna sit on it)
with the volume of clothing she's put on top of it, i'm guessing not, but this is now a concern. this could be the plan, as you say.
Stay tuned for news at 11.
@TedShifrin okay ... so I think I get it now (i hope). My question is what is the point of this procedure?
Like Im sure mathematicians were trying to solve something?
17:56
Topologists/geometers and physicists care about parametrizing linear subspaces of a vector space (of various dimensions).
These projective spaces and Grassmannians do exactly that.
Projective geometry arose originally because of art … perspective and orojections.
i see
i'll continue with the book for now then
@leslietownes Keep us posted? Your daughter reminds me of Calvin from Calvin and Hobbes :P
Look in chapter 8 section 2 of my Abstract Algebra.
she abandoned the pile on my sofa. i guess i'll just have to clean it up later and see if there is an egg inside.
thanks :)
@leslietownes If I were you I'd just hide the egg
and tell her it hatched
:P
18:04
I'm gonna be a great dad one day :P
Munchkin is usually more persistent than the average kid
18:18
How do you ping someone with a space in their name
I'm asssuming you remove the space between words?
And is pinging site-wide on MSE?
Site-wide?
i think you can only ping from chat people who have been in that specific chat. and it may be that you can only ping in comments people who are part of the Q/A chain you are commenting on.
but that's more of an educated guess than knowledge.
WHat about the spaces thing? Thx
when i tab-autocomplete prospective tags, it appears to just remove the space.
Btw, there's a PhD paper published into a book that talks about the "Grammar of Math".
Including both English-math and pure LaTeX mixed together. I'm wondering how far that book could get one at implementing the ideas in code.
18:25
heh, good luck. i don't even know the grammar of english.
@PurpleHaze Yes, you should remove spaces. You can ping anyone who's ever been in that chatroom, but auto-completion only works for people who've visited in the last week or so. Partial names also ping, but be wary of using them because they ping everyone whose name they match.
@pur test
Interesting
Well no one does
@TerezaTizkova ping
Rabbits are a pest in Australia, so many of us prefer the Easter Bilby. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter_Bilby Pet rabbits are illegal in Queensland. business.qld.gov.au/industries/farms-fishing-forestry/… "Introducing, keeping and selling rabbits in Queensland is illegal and penalties apply."
19:13
i remember the whole myxomatosis thing.
@pur You only need three letters
@pm2 this works even with a space in the first three, does it not?
Here is a FAQ about this.
20:12
Further details on chat pings: meta.stackexchange.com/q/136292/334566
@leslietownes another detail to remember is that if you do this too often, you'll go blind
@PM2Ring Just don't do this.
@copper.hat Also see Mixy M. Toasus en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ferals
20:47
@PM2Ring wow, curious humour for a kid's show!
21:16
@copper.hat Just a bit. ;) I expect the young kids watching the show were oblivious to the myxomatosis reference, but it gave their parents a chuckle.
21:46
:-)

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