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12:03 AM
Question: We know that a ring $R$ is cyclic if $R$ is a cyclic group. Then can we list all cyclic rings up to isomorphism?
 
What does that even mean?
You mean $(R,+)$ is a cyclic group?
 
Oh, yes $(R,+)$. Of course, I'm sorry
 
Well, we do know all the cyclic groups.
 
$(R,+,\cdot)$ is cyclic ring if $(R,+)$ is cyclic group.
 
So does knowing $(R,+)$ determine the multiplicative structure?
 
12:11 AM
@TedShifrin Do we only know them or can we also list them all?
 
Well, can you write a countable list?
 
nou, I think
 
I think you might be interpreting "list" too literally.
 
$1$, $2$, skip a few, $\aleph_0$.
 
yes, we can classify them
 
12:15 AM
(or maybe that should be $\omega$... those are probably ordinals)
 
this is a fun exercise, but I'll have to jog my brain to remember how to do it
 
Can you have different ring structures with a fixed underlying cyclic group?
Hmm ... Doesn't the generator of the additive group have to be $1$?
 
@TedShifrin That sounds right to me.
 
I think that's the punchline, but it needs an argument
it's obvious once you have that, of course
 
Uhm...
 
12:22 AM
This is @Alex's question. He should do the thinking.
 
Yes, I'm thinking about this. Also I'm reading more facts about it.
 
as a hint, consider the additive order of the rings unit
 
Thank you for the hint. I'm reading here now: faculty.math.illinois.edu/~wbuck/thesis.pdf maybe then I will understand the hint in more depth.
 
12:38 AM
that note cnosiders rings without identity, which is awful
 
looking forward to getting significantly inebriated on some bordeaux thing
 
@Thorgott Yes, I was actually going to ask @Alex if their rings have identity.
"some bordeaux thing," copper? Sounds more like a bordello.
 
0
Q: Soundness for first order

sashasWhile reading the book by Peter Smith I came across two different definitions of soundness, the general definition A theory $T$ is sound iff its axioms are true (on the interpretation built into T’s language), and its proof system is truth-preserving, so all its theorems are true. and for theor...

any help appreciated
 
1:04 AM
@TedShifrin a bordello sounds like more fun, but will settle for an Italian Chloe or a French Margaux tonight...
 
@TedShifrin Nothing fancy, but good nonetheless. Ham with various stock-standard southern sides (casseroles, your typical greens).
 
Wines, of course...
My wife is adding garlic to the mash potato, unfortunately.
 
1:17 AM
I like garlic cooked with the potatoes before mashing.
 
@TedShifrin I think we don't need a identity in ring cyclic. For example $R=2Z$ is a cycling ring.
 
@Fargle Not greens cooked for hours! :(
 
normally
 
Not in this case, my sisters are not totally bound to tradition.
 
normally, rings have identities
 
1:19 AM
@Alex In my undergraduate algebra world, all rings have identity. This makes your question much harder.
@Fargle Thank goodness. Some things southern should go far, far away.
 
I prefer the terminology where we call them rngs if they don't have an identity
 
No argument, Thor.
 
I've heard of rngs and rigs. Are there rins and ings?
 
@TedShifrin But isn't more interesting?
 
Not to me.
 
1:22 AM
@Thorgott I think you made some errors in your comments
See my answer to that question
The math feels legit to me
The conclusion I came to I put in the form of a new definition:
Definition 1. Let $C$ be a category with binary products. Let $m : G^2 \to G$, and let $D$ be the diagram in $C$:
$$
\require{AMScd}
\begin{CD}
G^3 @>{m\times \text{id}}>> G^2 \\
@V{\text{id}\times m}VV @VV{m}V \\
G^2 @>{m}>> G
\end{CD}$$
Then $G$ is called group object if $\lim D$ exists and $\lim D \simeq G$ itself.
This is a superior definition, for obvious reasons - in math anything expressible with less or other theorems is more elegant, easier to remember and work with
*superior to nLab's group object (3 diagram method)
 
no, what you've proven is that $G$ is the limit of the diagram with the $G$ in the middle
which is what I already told you
 
you're looking at a morphism into the diagram with $G$ already in the middle
 
I'm taking the limit of the square, $G$ by definition of its associated maps and their commutative properties, already forms a limiting cone as shown in the proof
You then take an other cone, glue it in, and if it commutes with limit cone and square (everything commutes) and there is one such morphism $u:X \to G$ that accomplishes that, then $G$ is indeed a limit
See the wikipedia link it goes to a subsection
By definition of limit
So I'm really liking this definition of group object :)
 
no, you're only checking necessity, not sufficiency
I mean, you're not even checking necessity, really
 
1:35 AM
Isomorphism, done
 
you're observing that a cone with $X$ over the diagram induces a morphism $X\rightarrow G$, but this correspondence is neither injective nor surjective
 
$(u = i) : X \to G$ 1) always exists, and 2) it's the only such map that $\text{id} \circ u = i$.
I'm saying we're taking $G$ as a usual group object so that the first diagram in my posts commutes. I prove (easily) that it's actually a limit of the square describing associativity
There is no inducing step used
 
neither of those two claims are being contested, but they don't show that $G$ is the limit of the diagram as you think it does
 
yeah, she cooked the garlic with the spuds. i like both, but i think garlic overpowers the potatoes, especially with a nice roast... but then, i am a minimal sort of fellow
 
$G$ is a a limit of the diagram, that's what I proved, so I used $\simeq$
 
1:38 AM
Depends on quantity, but a subtle flavor is yummy. You need to open your mind.
 
there is no reason for the big diagram you write to commute
 
?
You suppose that it commutes (referring to the answer post)
And show that if it does, then there is a UMP map
$u = i$
 
no, you don't
 
you only assume the outer triangles commute
the inner ones not necessarily
this is the difference between taking the limit of the outer square or of the diagram with $G$ contained in it
 
1:40 AM
Then that's a trivial point
You can do it either way most likely
Yes, there is a difference, those are two different diagrams
I can't say obviously they're the same limit, that's beyond me
And if you say it's obvious to you, and you turn out to be wrong, I'm here working through it...
 
no, they're different limits
(in general, that is)
the limit of the outer square is $G^3$
 
So, please prove to me that I'm wrong, before blatantly saying the clearly valid math I put down is wrong
No, that is not true
 
I already told you where you're wrong
review the definition of a limit
 
So if Thorgott says we're wrong, then we're wrong. I get your logic
 
if you're the recipient, then most likely yes
 
1:44 AM
Well, I'm still betting it's the opposite at least this instance
Saying something is wrong and teaching why it's wrong are completely different, the latter is perfered
@Thorgott you can make an answer to the post. That would solve everyting. Then once I can parse it, I can select it as correct
It just might not be instant, because clearly you are greater of a mathematician. I still think I'm right at this argument though :P
 
I've explained why what I've said is right and what you've said is wrong already. If you're not listening, I can't do much about it
 
Not, true, you didn't use latex once. I used latex all over my arg
How can we refer to the same things, if you don't bring in variables ?
I'd like to see other answers posted, because I could definitely be wrong (usually am)
but I'm getting better at Cat theory
Okay, thanks for your help, Thorgott. I'll take another look -_-
 
2:12 AM
@Thorgott you were right about sufficiency / necessity. I see now I only proved one dir
Every group object $G$ is a limit of its associativity square.
but not yet the converse
 
 
2 hours later…
3:54 AM
watch out for coyotes
 
4:06 AM
I want to negate definition of uniform continuity: $\forall \epsilon\gt 0, \exists N$ such that $\color{blue}{\text{$\forall n\ge N$ and for all $x\in S$, it follows that $|f_n(x)-f(x)|<\epsilon$}}$. Negation: $\exists \epsilon\gt 0$ such that for all $N$ $\color{blue}{\text{$\forall n\ge N$ and for all $x\in S$, it follows that $|f_n(x)-f(x)|\ge\epsilon$}}$
Because negation of $a\implies b$ is $a \land \not b$ (a and not b)
 
NOOOOOOO
Every person in this room is from Japan. Negate.
 
Ted, I know this is so wrong but why? I used the negation correctly .
 
Quantifiers
 
once again we see the mischief worked by the demon's brew of some logical symbols and some words
 
$\neg \forall p(x)\equiv \forall \neg p(x)\equiv \exists p(x)$.
 
4:18 AM
But what is wrong in considering: $\color{blue}{\text{$\forall n\ge N$ and for all $x\in S$, it follows that $|f_n(x)-f(x)|<\epsilon$}}$ as implication p implies q. And then negating as p and not q ?
 
i honestly believe that if that had been written in all logical symbols it would have been negated correctly, but people never want to fully commit because they aren't computers
 
Considering quantifiers also, I wrote a wrong negation, which is the following:
 
raising the question of what is gained by a little forall and exists sprinkled in, making an unholy human-computer hybrid
 
@leslietownes Generally, I advise people to use more English and fewer symbols. But negating moderately complicated theorem statements is a really good example of a situation in which symbols can help.
 
i say all or nothing
far easier to translate from pure logical symbols back to human than a mishmash back to human
 
4:20 AM
$\exists \epsilon\gt 0$ such that for all $N$, there exists $n\ge N$ $\color{blue}{\text{or}}$ there exists $x\in S$ such that $|f_n(x)-f(x)|\ge \epsilon$.
But this is also wrong.
 
My message can no longer be corrected. Fixed $\neg \forall p(x)\equiv \exists \neg p(x)$.
 
And I don't understand why? Apparently, there should be and instead of blue or there. I think I did the quantifiers right.
But what did I do wrong?
 
koro i'm not a logician but think for a minute about "for all n >= N" what is it really saying. it's not something that can be logically and'ed or'ed with something else because it has no truth value. so the "and" and the "or" in your english translations aren't logical and and or
 
Alex: I'll take a look at that. Thanks.
I would like to add that: I put "or" above because negation of p and q is "not p or not q".
 
4:24 AM
it might be helpful to think of "forall n >= N, __" as "forall N (n >= N implies __)
whose negation is exists N (n >= N AND (not __))
and maybe try figure out what __ has to be there without any english words in it. no such thats, no follows thats, and no "ands" or "ors" that aren't logical ands or ors
i once had to work with a consultant who insisted on writing ON and OFF in all caps when he meant states of a device, which he insisted had nothing to do with common english on and off, even though his report was written in english and not his alien state language. in context i think he was wrong, and i am not myself an alien, but he had a point
the report made it look like he was yelling
i'm watching my daughter on a baby monitor. after being put to bed, she got up, turned the room light on, sat next to the cat, appeared to almost get in a fight with the cat, lectured the cat about something, turned the light off, and went back to bed
now i can see the cat grooming its paws and her eyes blikning open and shut in night vision
 
I still think people should think about negating common-sense English sentences. Every person in this room is from Japan. Negation?
 
@leslietownes I understood when you nicely said: "for all n>=N" is not a mathematical statement. Because a mathematical statement has a truth value (either the statement is true or false, it's not half and half etc.). With that, we can't "and" or "or" them
thanks a lot. I got it. :)
 
4:44 AM
Hi again, @Ted, @leslie.
 
hello balarka
koro: it's particularly annoying because we often say 'for all n >= N and x in S" and variants, where the "and" isn't AND
or not annoying, but potentially confusing
 
xor not annoying
 
it annoyed me when i had to spend about a week teaching students to work through a textbook that did a lot of this at a level that was just not quite formal enough for it to be genuinely helpful
and means AND except when it doesn't mean AND. it's just and. got that?
there's no trick to this, it's just a simple trick
 
Rehi Balarka
 
@Ted: Wrote an initial draft of notes. Didn't get to the juicy part about characteristic classes yet, but I will. So far it's mostly definitions, motivations and stable homotopy theory so you won't like it.
 
4:51 AM
If you can put it somewhere accessible as it goes, just email me a link?
 
Sure!
 
Oh, I guess that’s on the web, so I can bookmark.
 
Yeah.
 
Ugh. axioms. ;)
 
Really hard to construct these things
The most concrete application that I have in mind right now, which is the reason I made the nosedive into this stuff in the first place, is $S^{2n}$ has no almost complex structures other than $n = 1, 3$. There are other proofs, apparently, but I like the one I could come up with.
it uses the relation between these Steenrod powers (mod p Steenrod squares) and Chern classes modulo p that I mention at the end, and will elaborate on
 
4:59 AM
cool stuff
 
most of the way through margaux, my back, my...
 
merry christmas to you too, copper.
 
many happy returns!
 
anything planned for st stephens?
 
nothing special, a cycle with a friend, another bottle of bordeaux...
 
5:13 AM
hopefully in that order
 
:-). i don't think i have ever cycled while inebriated...
wait, i have returned home on my e-bike while slightly under the influence...
i won't be donning my wren boys outfit...
 
that would be quite a sight in albany
 
apparently in irish mythology, birds are a link between this world and the next
i am sure a wren boy's outfit would be better received than my sombrero & speedos outfit
i made some fresh horseradish to go with the 10lbs of roast beef. surprising how much pungency was lost on just an hour or so...
the salmon wellington went down well...
the mash with garlic was not so bad
 
 
7 hours later…
12:13 PM
Hello I want to prove that column vector of this matrix is linearly dependent.
But it is true only when $b_1=tb_2+sb_3$ and $c_1=tc_2+sc_3$ where $s,t\in\Bbb{R}$.
 
12:48 PM
Hello can someone help me about the sequence of iterative functions math.stackexchange.com/questions/4341642/…
 
I don't want to use determinant.
 
 
2 hours later…
2:40 PM
Can we calculate $\displaystyle \int_{0}^{+\infty}e^{-ax-bx^{4}}\sin(bx){\rm d}x$?
 
2:58 PM
Happy Festivus to all
 
no answer to question
-_-
 
maybe showing some work will motivate some people to take a look at it
 
3:14 PM
If row vector of matrix is linearly dependent then is column vector of matrix linearly dependent?
I made row vector of 3 by 3 and 2 by 2 linearly dependent and found that determinant is 0 so I was wondering if it is true whether column vector of matrix linearly dependent if rows are dependent. I then tried to prove that for 3 by 3 by fixing the first row of matrix as linearly dependent out of other two.


https://i.stack.imgur.com/w2Q2H.jpg


(Here is the illustration of the matrix)


But this is only true if $b_1=k_1b_2+k_2b_3 $ and $c_1=k_1c_2+k_2c_3$ where $k_1,k_2\in \Bbb{R}$.

So my question is if row vector is linearly dependent will at least one of the column also be linearly dep
Right now I don't know anything about rank and other stuff but just learning some basic linear algebra for multivariable calculus.
Like only dot product matrix multiplication and vector properties and vector arithmetic.
Is there a way I can prove by very basic stuff that I learn? Or do I need very advance math?
Some people pointed out that column rank= row rank.
Okay If I know row rank or 3 by3 matrices and column rank then I will be satisfied.
;_;
 
3:45 PM
ok I think it's related to rref so ignore my comment please
 
4:02 PM
I am curious what was written on that lol
So after rref my soul can probably sleep peacefully
every linear system can be put into rref
 
4:41 PM
wasn't there someone here some time ago that boasted about german analysis?
i wonder if there are any standard german analysis texts
 
@MethNoob I wrote something wrong. But from linear dependence of the rows, you deduce that there is a nontrivial solutiion of $Ax=0$, and hence this gives a nontrivial relation among the columns.
 
Morning everyone.
 
Hi Fargle. How’s your eccentricity?
 
A bit closer to 0 than yesterday, but such are feasts.
 
4:57 PM
On the other hand, maybe you were never a conic to start with.
 
0
Q: Distance from $f(0)$ to the boundary of $D$ if $f$ maps open unit disk to $D$ conformally

Marcus EmilssonLet $f(z)$ be a conformal map from the open unit disk onto $D$, which is a domain. I would like to show that the distance from $f(0)$ to the boundary of $D$, denoted $\partial D$, is given by $\mathrm{dist}(f(0), \partial D) \le |f'(0)|$, that is, it is bounded by $|f'(0)|$. What is a good way ...

Regarding zhw's answer, why does $f^{-1}$ exist? The definitions of conformal maps I've seen don't include bijectivity.
 
What is the definition?
 
5:16 PM
@TedShifrin Sorry. Had to run off for a second. A function $f : G \to \Bbb{C}$ is said to be conformal if it has the angle preserving property and also has $\lim_{z \to a} \frac{|f(z)-f(a)|}{|z-a|}$ existing.
I mean, maybe it follows from that definition that $f$ is injective, at least...
 
5:29 PM
The problem states that $f$ maps the unit disc ONTO $D$, so it is definitely surjective. I see some definitions include injectivity in the definition of being conformal. Is this problem solvable/true if one doesn't include injectivity?
 
6:18 PM
$\Huge\text{Happy Boxing Day!!}\quad\unicode{x1F381}\unicode{x1F94A}$
 
6:48 PM
Merry Christmas!
 
I was trying to find the CFG for the language below. However, I couldn't do that. Can anyone help with this problem?

{1n0m1k0p|n≥2,m,k,p≥1,n+k=m+p}
2
Q: Finding Context Free Grammar for a language (Hard)

bazzingaI was trying to find the CFG for the language below. However, I couldn't do that. Can anyone help with this problem? $$\{1^n 0^m 1^k 0^p | n \geq 2, m,k,p \geq 1, n+k = m+p\}$$

Can you guys help with that please
 
I'm working on a metacompiler, so I could help in a manner that is informal to mathematics provided that you explain the notation to me.
You want a Type-2 Grammar for whatever is described by $1^n 0^m 1^k 0^p$ such that all of those conditions are met.
 
yes, I was able to build design a PDA that can recognize the language, however, I'm not able to derive the context-free grammar, I would like some help
 
By grammar you mean formal grammar, correct?
 
Correct
 
7:02 PM
Ok, so I'm unfamiliar with the formal conventions in CS for these things in particular, so please bear with me.
What exactly does $1^n 0^m 1^k 0^p$ mean? Can you describe it to me, please?
 
It represents a language
 
Yes, but, assuming this is a mathematical notation, I don't know what it means or how it relates to the formal grammar in terms of alphabet and syntax.
 
1
Q: Context free grammar for a specific context-free language

ChanProblem $L = \{ w \in \{a, b\}^* : n(a) \neq 2 \cdot n(b)\}$ This can be done easily with NPDA, but I couldn't find a way to make it work with CFG. My idea was to break it into 2 cases: $n(a) > 2 \cdot n(b)$ or $n(a) < 2 \cdot n(b)$. I first try to generate a language which makes them equal, the...

please check this similar problem, maybe it'll help you get an idea on what I'm trying to acheive
 
Well the problem isn't my understanding of your needs. I learned about these things informally, i.e. not through university or college. The issue here is only my understanding of these formal constructs of communication. Once I know what they are, then I can help you quite easily. I will look at the question.
 
think about it as a set of strings {110100,11001100,...} , so what we want to do is to find a CFG that can generate all the strings of this set
 
7:11 PM
if i'm not mistaken, a "language" here is just a set of strings of 1s and 0s, and something is in the "language" if it has the given form for integers n, m, k, p satisfying the relation
 
Well the alphabet here certainly is {0, 1}
 
bazinga: when you say 'generate' here, do you mean something more specific than just 'can generate these,' e.g. 'can generate these, but no others'?
 
@bazzinga This helps, so my question is in what way do I use that first part that I asked about to generate one of these strings?
 
the part you asked about is defining the general shape of the language, the language will have a set of 1s followed by a set of 0s followed by a set of 1s followed by a set of 0s where the sum of 1s and 0s is equal
also, the string should at least have two 1s at the beginning
 
I'm not sure if this will help you, but the way I intend to implement the inputs and outputs of my metacompiler would represent that set of strings as a tree, namely, a binary decision tree (as a directed graph).
You have one input (the decision tree) describing all possible outputs, and another input (the predicate tree) describing all possible decisions. The third is the input to operate on which is passed to the predicate tree which, starting at the root node, computes a decision on which path, either left or right, to take in the decision tree.
In the case of a formal grammar, the predicate tree would identify what the current element is, and the decision tree would give what the next expected element is and would do nothing but begin or end a context, where a context here means a symbol, word, clause, etc.
This describes one possible implementation of a parser on said metacompiler
You can chain different trees together to form a complete compiler or even software.
So that is my informal understanding of languages in the context of CS
 
7:22 PM
Thank you I really appreciate your help
 
@bazzinga Ok, so the only thing I'm not understanding then is this use of exponentiation notation. I assume it has something to do with the number of 0s or 1s in that position, e.g. 1^2 0^3 1^1 0 ^2 would be the sequence 11000100.
Also that just gave me an idea for a compact encoding format. Thanks lol
 
yes exactly, this notation is common in abstract algebra
 
Ok, good! I'm starting to understand what this is saying. Now to decipher the predicate to the right.
 
However you didn't respect the conditions , 1100100 isn't a string of the language because number of 1s and 0s isn't equal
 
Yes, I know. One thing at a time.
 
7:27 PM
ok
 
Ok, got it. So, how is the CFG intended to be described formally in CS? I'm pretty sure you just take the constraints (the predicate) to the right describing the relative sequence and just rewrite it formally in some other language.
 
basically, the constraints are implicitly expressed by biding rules together
 
So then all you have to do is enumerate all the constraints explicitly?
That should give you the grammar I guess
At least the syntax
 
for example, if we didn't have those constraints the grammar will be easy to generate
 
Ok, so what would that grammar look like if you tried to describe it as-is without the constraints?
 
7:32 PM
the grammar will be : S -> 1S | 1A , A -> 0A | 0B, B -> 1C | 1D , D -> 0D | 0
 
Ohhhh so you just enumerate it as a sequence of rewrite rules
 
yep
 
That's it, then. Just determine what the explicit rules are from the implicit rules, and convert the explicit rules into a sequence of rewrite rules.
 
IDK how to do that
 
Put your mind to the rules to present them to your intellect. Your intellect will give you an answer.
 
7:36 PM
I mean there is no way to define the constraints formally except through the rules, if you find the rules you already solved the problem
I can find grammar for special cases such as n=m and k = p
 
Well the rewrite rules in the case of a CFG are just one level above Type-3. The process I would take is to make a Type-3 grammar, then convert upwards from there to Type-2 or even Type-1. The process of this conversion is essentially a compaction of the grammar that can make it more terse. That is how I see it.
Unfortunately, I don't have an intuition for rewrite rules, so I can't help you there.
But I believe that you can figure it out on your own if you put your mind to it, and if you do, you can always answer your own question. :)
 
I have designed PDA for the language , and tried to generate language from there but is just to much 244 production rule needed at minimum
thanks again I'll try to find a way
 
Sorry I can't help you more!
 
 
2 hours later…
9:18 PM
Can anyone help me with Leibniz integral rule?
 
"just ask, don't ask to ask"
 
what is the question
 
$\frac{d}{dx} \left(\int_a^b f(x,t)\,dt \right)= \int_a^b \frac{\partial}{\partial x} f(x,t) \,dt.$
will be special case of Leibniz rule when involved limits are constants
 
yes
 
i always forget what the conditions are for differentiation under the integral
 
9:23 PM
what would happen if $h(x,a)$ or $h(x,b)$ become undefined for some values of a or b?
 
I think you need to assume, in general, that the partial derivative exists and is integrable on $[a,b]$
Do you have a particular integral in mind?
 
Yes, this one
$$\int_0^1\frac{\arctan ax}{x\sqrt{1-x^2}}dx$$
 
You are missing a curly brace.
 
at the very end
also should have dx
 
I start by assuming
$$I(a)=\int_0^1\frac{\arctan ax}{x\sqrt{1-x^2}}dx$$
 
9:28 PM
The derivative is integrable in the interior, and I believe that is good enough
what is the derivative with respect to $a$ of the integrand?
 
Note that function can be written as $f(a,x)$ The the problem is $f(a,0)$ and $f(a,1)$ are not defined
 
the integrand, you mean?
 
i mean, you could probably adjust the problem by replacing $\int_0^1$ with $\int_{x_0}^{x_1}$
then take the limits $x_0\to 0^+$, $x_1\to 1^-$ after differentiation
 
as long as things are good in the interior, you can take limits of interior intervals as Semi says
 
9:33 PM
it is good to be paranoid about stuff like this, though
 
@Semiclassical Ok that makes sense, the problems with educators here is that they just use formula for everything without telling the essential logic which causes confusion, Also I don't know why I am studying this thing at night after being exhausted completely
 
as long as the paranoia does not lead to complete freezing of action
 
not sure how you'd compute this integral directly
 
@Semiclassical yes i tried all the properties and then switched to the rule
 
I seek motivation for my commutative algebra hw
can someone tell me why this field is worth pursuing?
 
9:43 PM
@Asinomás Because it earns you an A?
 
I already have enough A's
 
"Commutative algebra" is a very broad field, and there is active research going on. It is a very long way away from anything that I know (or care) much about, but there are certainly people who do care.
 
I'll just read some Eisenbud intros I guess
He's a cool guy, I once had the privilege of telling him where an auditorium was in my uni
 
asin: it's an enormous prerequisite/stumbling block to certain modern treatments of algebraic geometry.
if you want to hitch yourself to the AG gravy train, you need it. you have no choice.
 
I already took some AG courses
and I think I'm gonna take another one next semester
So you're probably right, it'll help
 
9:47 PM
i did say 'certain' treatments. if you want to style yourself as an algebraic geometer i think you need to know it.
if you don't, it might help to know it, but maybe it's enough to know other things without going all in.
 
Style yourself as an algebraic geometer
If that isn't an oxymoron
 
i mean, i think a lot of departments wouldn't hire someone who couldn't talk that language for an AG-focused postdoc or tenure track position.
not so much self-identification.
but again, a lot of departments, not all departments.
one semester a couple of my friends took commutative algebra from eisenbud and i went in a different direction. we all wound up in happy places but i am not an algebraic geometer.
 
There isn't that many departments who can check if someone speaks that lingo tho tbh
 
if you're ever in a position of giving a "job talk" (and admittedly almost all postdocs are excluded by this), you might be surprised by that.
 
surprised by people who can check the alg geo lingo?
maybe in cali
 
9:55 PM
not as an ego game, but as a question of what they expect people to know. what they think the 'lingua franca' is.
 
i've never been able to link com alg know-how with employablility
 
if you look above you will see my remarks are specific to those who would want to get jobs in AG-focused areas.
 
"if you look above"
what a phrase
 
i mean, if you refer to my comments which may still be on the screen.
"if you want to hitch yourself to the AG gravy train," "if you want to style yourself as an algebraic geometer," applying "for an AG-focused postdoc or tenure track position."
if you have specific jobs and connections in mind that don't require these, then OK, but i don't know why you'd be asking the question about commutative algebra, if you do.
 
@Asinomás (1) Thinking about coursework as a means to employability is the wrong mindset. You are learning a body of theory, and you are learning a way of thinking. You should pursue what interests you. While it doesn't hurt to think about what kinds of jobs you may end up pursuing, it shouldn't be the primary focus.
 
9:58 PM
@robjohn @Semiclassical Thankyou, I got the the correct answer :-)
 
algebra teachers are pretty bad imho
 
(2) There are active fields where "speaking" commutative algebra is going to be an assumed prerequisite. Algebraic geometry is one of those (probably; depending on the institution / program / research group). So, if you are interested in algebraic geometry, you probably want to know commutative algebra.
 
I mean, I'm gonna get 100 on that coursework regardless tbh
I was just trying to look for some incentive to make it more enjoyable
 
@Asinomás Nonsense.
 
i don't think people take graduate courses in commutative algebra for fun. it's not something to take for general mathematical culture, as far as i know.
maybe that's my answer to the question.
 
10:01 PM
@LalitTolani great!
@leslietownes I like my yogurt with general mathematical culture.
 
@robjohn BOOOO!
 
@XanderHenderson I mean I started with, in my experience
 
i was TAing calculus once, and after the first midterm someone came and asked about how to get a good grade. i asked what their expectations or requirements. they were an english major who had not spoken to advisors, and assumed that there was some general requirement to take calculus in college and get some minimum grade. i said, "uh, oops, i'm not the authority, but do go back and talk to your major advisors again. i know no reason for you to take this." they dropped the class.
if you can drop a commutative algebra class that you're not interested in, i'd say, in the same spirit, do it
i'd totally star my own last comment if i could
maybe i'll sell t-shirts of it
 
I can star it if you want
even though it's pretty lackluster
 
the more pointed version is the classic response to "doctor, it hurts when i do this"
 
10:08 PM
Generally speaking, you should not be taking very many (if any) graduate classes which you don't find interesting or worthwhile. Graduate school is when you narrow down your focus to a research topic.
You are probably going to have to take one or two courses which are not that interesting to you (beyond the "general education" courses)---I had to take a quarter of Lie theory because there was literally nothing else offered that semester, and I was trying to fast track my advancement to candidacy---but you generally are going to be taking classes which interest you.
If something is not interesting, don't do it, and focus your research elsewhere.
 
I already have my phd thesis so I'm not worried about that
 
eww, lie theory
 
From Chari. Who really disliked me.
 
i'd rather take lie theory from Charo
 
10:12 PM
I don't find com alg interesting
so I'll just get an A
and ignore it
following your guidance
 
i think my anecdote actually has more relevance than i first realized. a lot of people in my grad class took courses relating algebraic curves or more or less by default, if they had come from place where that was the thing. ditto PDE, ditto harmonic analysis, ditto set theory.
 
which is what I have been doing since high school
 
it was just the reflex of, "this is part of the environment, i need to absorb it." but i don't think that you really do.
i took two semesters of algebraic topology for this reason. it was just around me. i never needed it.
 
@XanderHenderson I am glad I don't live my life to please you ;-p
 
@robjohn I'm not. Your puns are a microagression!
I'm triggered!
I need to go find a safe space. :(
Maybe I'll get out my colored pencils and color in my adult coloring book!
 
10:20 PM
@XanderHenderson I didn't realize that there was any aggression at work there. At some point, the microabuse flags will accumulate and I will be in trouble.
 
@robjohn *cries*
 
@XanderHenderson do you need to borrow any colored pencils? I could bundle some up.
 
@robjohn *sniffle* Yes, please.
 
ate some bread with mold on it -_-
I'm immune to everything now :)
 
self-medicating is not usually recommended
 
10:28 PM
Oh! Thank you for reminding me! I have bread proofing downstairs. I should go stretch the dough.
 
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