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13:00
I know $AB$ will undergo an anti-clockwise rotation so $B$ would move a little downwards and left. Can I say $B$ was acted by $F_1$ that caused its motion? ($F_1$ acted only for a moment)
I should have waited to write, I need a bit.
Let's not do that. Let's just demand that $\sum a_i = 1$.
so what happens if you equip G with the indiscrete topology
i guess my corresponding Borel sigma algebra only contains {} and G
so haar measure would just be the same as assigning a number to G

and in this case it seems like all my measurable functions have to be constant functions?

and in particular you can produce a unit literally given by the constant 1

does that sound right
Then if $P_a = (a_0, \cdots, a_n)$ and similarly with $P_b$, then their convex combination $\lambda P_a + (1-\lambda) P_b$ is given by doing their convex combination termwise.
For us, we start with a k-facet of $\Delta^n$. I assume for convenience it is spanned by $\{x_0, \cdots, x_k\}$. First let's find barycentric coordinates for the barycenter of the facet $\{x_0, \cdots, x_k\} \cup S$, where $S \subset \{x_{k+1}, \cdots, x_n\}.$ We will call this barycenter $P_S$.
@loch but the exercise is to show that in the case where we have a unit, $G$ must be discrete
right
so here i have an example
where we have a unit
and G is not discrete
so if what i said is right then maybe you do need the hausdorffness assumption in the question
13:05
Then the barycentric coordinates are $P_S = \frac{1}{|S|+k+1} \vec{a}_S$, where the $j$th term of $\vec{a}_S$ is $1$ if either $j \leq k$ or $j \in S$.
Claim: if $S, S'$ are disjoint, then $P_{S \cup S'}$ is a convex combination of $P_S, P_{S'},$ and $P_\varnothing$.
Oops, that's not true.
Clearly $\vec{a}_{S \cup S'} = \vec{a}_S + \vec{a}_{S'} - \vec{a}_{\varnothing}$. Then we get $$P_{S \cup S'} = \frac{|S|+ k+1}{|S|+|S'|+k+1} P_S + \frac{|S'|+k+1}{|S|+|S'|+k+1} P_{S'} - \frac{k+1}{|S|+|S'|+k+1} P_\varnothing.$$
Wait. Isn't $\vec a_S = (1, 1, \dots, 1)$?
If $S$ is the whole of $\{x_{k+1}, \cdots, x_n\}$, sure.
Otherwise why are you averaging in vertices that $S$ is not the barycenter of?
What if $S = \{x_{k+1}, \dots, x_{n-1}\}$?
Then why are you averaging in $x_n$?
wait, how many components is $a_S$ supposed to have?
13:13
1
Q: What are examples of machine learning techniques inspired by neuroscience?

SpiderRicoWhat are examples of machine learning techniques (i.e. models, algorithms, etc.) inspired (to different extents) by neuroscience? Particularly, I'm interested in recent developments, say less than 10 years old, that have their basis in neuroscience to some degree.

|S|+k+1, right?
it's a barycecntric coordinate of a point in $\Delta^n$
Hi chat
Write $P_i = P_{\{i\}\}$, where $i > k$. Then the above shows that any $P_S$ lies in the hyperplane spanned by $P_\varnothing and the $P_i$, which is an $(n-k+1)$-dimensional hyperplane.
13:15
@MikeMiller Okay.
This hyerplane is also transverse to the hyperplane the simplex lies in (the one where the coordinates sum to 1).
So the intersection of this hyperplane with the simplex --- which the $P_S$ all live in --- lies in an affine hyperplane of dimension n-k.
One checks that you cannot span one of the $P_i$ with $P_\varnothing$ and the other $P_j$ (which is clear), and thus they do not lie in a smaller-dimensional hyperplane.
So you lie in a convex set, which spans an affine hyperplane of dimension (n-k). Thus the convex set is (n-k)-dimensional, and thus equivalent to a ball.
That's your cell.
@Astyx hi
What it means when someone says “Hi chat” ? Does it mean “Hi” to everyone who is online at the time or it is a “Hi” to this chat room?
Yes
@MikeMiller This is true, right?
feynman...
ugh... diluted dillusion
But bad is better
XD
yehe!
13:27
@Astyx Yes to which one of them? :-)
@AbhasKumarSinha You got any refreshing joke for me?
Ok, assume $f\colon\omega_1\rightarrow\mathbb{R}$ is continuous. Let $M=\sup f(\omega_1)\in\mathbb{R}\cup\{\infty\}$. Then there exists a sequence $(\alpha_n)_n\in\omega_1^{\mathbb{N}}$ such that $f(\alpha_n)\nearrow x$ strictly. Now, using a peak lemma type argument, there should be a subsequence $(\alpha_{n_k})_k$ that is strictly monotonic. Strictly monotonically decreasing would violate regularity, so it must be strictly monotonically increasing.
Then $\alpha:=\sup_k\alpha_{n_k}=\bigcup_k\alpha_{n_k}$ is a countable limit ordinal (countable as countable union of countable sets and a lim
@Knight My life has become a bigger joke than anything you'd imagine
$\vec a_\varnothing$ = barycenter of the our k-facet?
@AbhasKumarSinha That was a bad joek
I think/hope this works.
Can't figure out why it's eventually constant though
13:29
@Knight Buddy, long story bro, shouldn't tell here...
Tell it on there
k
not now
I won't sleep today after 1 AM... will tell you then
1 AM IST
Now, It's more important for me to change and say goodbye to my this username
XD
xkcd
Why?
Tell ya later
@feynhat The correct statement is linear combination, not convex. That was my mistake.
The formulas are correct.
The barycenter of the simplex $\{x_1, \cdots, x_k\} \cup S$ is what I named $P_S$.
13:33
4 mins ago, by feynhat
$\vec a_\varnothing$ = barycenter of the our k-facet?
$a_S$ was it without the weight out front, which was irritating.
The barycenter of your k-facet is $P_\varnothing$
These $a$ guys I only introduces to make notation more convenient
oh right.
@MikeMiller But that formula does look like a convex combination?
yo
Why my username didn't change here?
ugh!
I want to hide my full name
Is that possible?
No not possible
Your behaviour will always let us know who you are
ROFL
@Knight Ama hiding myself from just 1 person... Not a SE user
13:37
Hello! I have a question regarding invertible functions. Say I have a function $f:\subset\mathbb{R}to\mathbb{R]$. If I find an inverse function $f^{-1}$ using some computations, and then I find the jacobian matrix of both $J_{f}$ and $J_{f^{-1}}$.

Should I expect $[J_f}]^{-1}=[J_{f^{-1}}]$ ?
Any Mod here?
Plhz
Actually, I don't need a monotonic subsequence. All I need is a subsequence without a maximal element. This surely exists: If $(\alpha_n)_n$ has a maximal element, remove it, if the resulting sequence has a maximal element, remove it, etc.. This process must terminate in finitely many steps for otherwise we get an infinite decreasing sequence of ordinals, which violates regularity, so after those finitely many steps, the resulting subsequence has no maximal element.
@AbhasKumarSinha Who’s she ?
@Abhas it always takes a while for name changes to update in chat, you just have to wait for a bit
@Knight Did I say that she's she?
@Thorgott waiting... How much time?
13:40
dunno, couple hours ig
Ugh... okay.... NP
@AbhasKumarSinha It’s quite natural
Wow
@Knight What's natural?
What is RewCie ?
it just changed
13:41
Bok! Why older ones aren't happening?
@Thorgott yeeeyeeh!
@Knight You ask a lot
@abhas_RewCie What? What is RewCie ?
@Knight Later
Okay
wtf happened to my profile pic? It changed?
all abhas kumar sinha changed to correct ones now
amazing...
@abhas_RewCie Didn’t YOU changed it?
13:43
I'm short of time, I've to change it in all platforms
@Knight no
Now better
changed back to the original one
@feynhat Convex means all terms non-negative, which sum to 1.
@abhas_RewCie Why not to change “Abhas” also?
If we don't require non-negative we get an affine hyperplane.
non-negative... sorry.
@Knight not a big thing XD
13:47
No big deal. This is an irritatingly tricky argument it seems.
@Knight chek mah profile
XD
Let's see if I can phrase it better.
@abhas_RewCie You’re great buddy
@Knight I know
13:49
1) Say an affine combination of vectors means the coefficients sum to 1; affine combinations of (n+1) affinely independent vectors span an affine n-dim hyperplane.
2) The barycenters of the k-facet, and the (k+1)-facets, are independent.
@abhas_RewCie You created abhas_RewCie.SE?
3) The barycenter of any facet containing the k-facet is an affine combination of the barycenter of the k-facet and these (k+1)-facets.
@Knight means?
13:50
And the last fact should really not be too unclear: you average out the corresponding barycenters of the (k+1)-facets, and then need to subtract off a multiple of the barycenter of the k-facet due to overcounting.
@abhas_RewCie When I click on your name the profile to which you’re linked to is on Abhas_RewCie
@Knight yap
What is that?
@Knight ? that happens for everyone
not only me
@MikeMiller I'm having a lot of fun with it tbh. But yeah I see the complaint ofc
13:56
The last thing you need is: let X be the convex hull of some number of elements in R^n, so that those elements span R^n. Then X is homeomorphic to a ball.
This is probably obvious but I only see it via an inductive argument.
Ama go now... XD
bye
have a nice day :-)
did you see the RE3 remake
it kinda sucks
the original was so much better
@BalarkaSen It's a good game just a bit silly
I didn't
The RE2make was really really good
Agreed!
Terrifying shit to have a plan all figured out for navigating the building and then suddenly hear the Tyrant stomping in the room you just entered
13:58
Lmao yeah
Nemesis in the original RE3 was exactly like that actually
Never played 3 tbh
ah ok. so the point is in RE3 there's an analogue of Tyrant but the remake never makes it appear as a serious threat
@MikeMiller Suppose $S = \{x_{i_1}, \dots, x_{i_l}\}$, then is $P_S$ an affine combination of $P_\varnothing$ and $P_{i_1}, \dots, P_{i_l}$? I don't see how you concluded that the dimension of $P_S$ is (n-k+1).
you just have a bunch of boss fights with it; it doesn't appear as a looming omnipotent threat like Tyrant in RE2
@feynhat $P_S$ is a point, so its dimension is 0. And yes, that's what I said above.
(yes it is such an affine combination).
The claim is that the affine space spanned by all of the $P_S$ is indeed spanned just by the ones from the k-facet and the (k+1)-facets, which are independent, which gives the dimension count.
14:05
ugh.. sorry. I meant hyperplane spanned by ...
I am sorry, I am still stuck with the messages you posted way way back. I am working through them. You're gonna be here for a while, right?
I will re-write the argument as cleanly as possible, leaving a couple steps for you as exercises.
I'm reading something else so will progressively be less available.
1) Forget the previous notation, it was confusing. Let $S$ be a subset of $\{0, \cdots, n\}$, and hence an $(|S|-1)$-simplex. Write $B_S$ for its barycenter.

2) Claim: Given any two subsets $S, S'$, $B_{S \cup S'}$ is an *affine* combination of $B_S, B_{S'}, B_{S \cap S'}$. Write this in terms of the formula for the barycenter, $$B_S = \sum_{i \in S} \frac{x_i}{|S|}.$$
3) Corollary (induction on $|S|-k$). For any set $S \subset \{0, \cdots, n\}$ containing a fixed $(k+1)$-element subset $\sigma$, we may write $B_S$ as an affine combination of $B_{\sigma}$ and the $n-k$ points $B_{\sigma \cup \{i\}}$ for $i \not\in \sigma$.
(Maybe changing notation after you've mastered the previous notation is foolhardy, but oh well.)
4) Corollary: the set of all barycenters of sets $S$ containing $\sigma$ lie in the affine hyperplane spanned by $B_\sigma, B_{\sigma \cup \{i\}}.$
5) Claim: These $n-k+1$ points are affinely independent. (Exercise, follows from the $x_i$ being affinely independent.)
6) Claim: Any $m+1$ affinely independent points span an $m$-dimensional affine hyperplane.
7) Corollary: the collection of $B_S$, where $S$ varies over all sets containing $\sigma$, span an $(n-k)$-dimensional affine hyperplane.
8) Claim: Let $y_i$ be any finite collection of points in $\Bbb R^m$, which affinely span $\Bbb R^m$. Their convex hull is $m$-dimensional. (Proof: it has interior.)
9) Any convex hull of finitely many points is homeomorphic to a ball of the appropriate dimension. (This is a standard fact in polytope theory, but I don't know a reference or the proof off-hand, though I have one in mind.)
This gives you the desired claim.
I think all of these claims except (9) are relatively straightforward lemmas.
Seems like you could easily modify this argument.
14:22
This is a famously hard exercise in Hirsch but convex hulls of finitely many points are surely easier
If it's the minimum amount to span --- $m+1$ --- you just get a simplex, and after that it's an inductive argument pretty sure
slice with another hyperplane, chuck out the stuff on one side, and replace it with a disc
yeah thats what i'd do
the argument here though is clever enough
assume $0$ is in the hull because why not
actually it's really easy lol
if $C$ is your convex hull, you get a map $F: S(T_0 \Bbb R^n) \to \partial C$ by sending each unit vector $v$ to the unique $p \in \partial C$ with $p = tv$ for some $t > 0$
It is straightforward that this map is a bijection between CHaus spaces so
Then your map $\tilde F: D(T_0 \Bbb R^n) \to C$ is given by $\tilde F(tv) = t\tilde F(v)$
stupid
22
A: The homotopy category is not complete nor cocomplete

Qiaochu YuanHere's a class of counterexamples for the pointed homotopy category of connected CW complexes (so even this restriction does not save you). Let $hCW_{\ast}$ denote this category, and let $\pi_{\bullet} : hCW_{\ast} \to \text{Set}_{\bullet}$ denote the functor taking a pointed CW complex to its ho...

this is stupid
why isn't pullback homotopy equivariant
It would be very dumb if it was
14:34
aren't our topological operations supposed to be homotopy equivariant
it's like telling me that pullback of groups don't preserve isomorphisms
what is that supposed to mean lol
thats why holim and hocolims are a thing
Do you think topology is exclusively homotopy theory
are there conditions under which homotopy equivalence is preserved?
14:36
Is there a condition weaker than metrizability that ensures that a topological space $X$ for which every continuous $f\colon X\rightarrow\mathbb{R}$ attains a maximum is compact? Or, even better, is there a classification of spaces $X$ with this property?
I mean when you glue spaces by a pushout large amount of information gets collapsed. Take some large space and map it into a point, and some other random shit happening in the background
The point of ho(co)lim is that they fatten the spaces appropriately so that these operations are remembered
It holds if one of the maps is a fibration
@Thorgott pseudocompact
but i mean examples where this isn't true come very quickly you don't need to be fancy. let the base be D^2, and take the pullback of the inclusion of 0 and the inclusion of the boundary circle
clearly not the same as when you crush D^2 to a point
It should be clear that sequentially compact implies pseudocompact. What's an example showing that this implication is not reversible?
14:42
Why is pseudocompact equivalent to this property?
Compact implies pseudocompact but there are compact not sequentially compact spaces
I^I
pseudocompact is defined to mean that functions into R are bounded
@BalarkaSen Oh of course
you need to up your game Seebach
I don't see how that, a priori, implies the image contains its sup
@BalarkaSen see Bach?
14:44
Oh sorry, I thought you wanted bounded functions
@BalarkaSen I was thinking about noncompact examples (there are some which are pseudocompact but neither compact not sequentially compact in Steen and Seebach of course, I just checked)
Nice, I will promptly forget this fact
@Thorgott I mean if it doesn't hold for locally compact Hausdorff spaces you're in for a tough ride
@Thorgott sequentially compact is enough to guarantee a maximum
Assume $f\colon X\rightarrow\mathbb{R}$ is bounded, but doesn't attain it's maximum. Let $M=\sup f(X)\in\mathbb{R}$ and fix a sequence $(x_n)_n$ in $X$ such that $f(x_n)\nearrow M$. We have $f(x)\subseteq(-\infty,M)$. Fix a homeomorphism $g\colon (-\infty,M)\rightarrow\mathbb{R}$ such that $g(x)\rightarrow\infty$ as $x\rightarrow M$ (i.e. the standard such map) and consider $g\circ f$. Then $(g\circ f)(x_n)\rightarrow\infty$ as $n\rightarrow\infty$.
So if all continuous real-valued maps are bounded, they all attain a maximum. Or am I talking nonsense?
14:52
@feynhat I can tell you a different Poincare duality story if you're up for it
@BalarkaSen I would love to hear it. But a bit later today?
@Alessandro oh right, that's the usual argument. sequential compactness is weaker than compactness in general, right?
they are not comparable
im shocked
14:55
omega_1 is seq compact not compact
I^I is compact not seq compact
oh right, now that I think about it, all I did in my earlier proof is to show that $\omega_1$ is sequentially compact and then pull through with the standard proof
I think $\beta \Bbb N$ is also compact not seq compact
alright, so compactness and sequential compactness are both sufficient and for metrizable spaces, where these notions agree, they are also necessary
does the thing I wrote above make sense or am I missing something? (regarding whether pseudocompactness is actually what I'm looking for or not)
What the hell am I doing why am I talking to point set topologists
3
Screw this shit
I don't see anything wrong with your argument above, yet I can't help but feel it shouldn't be true
15:03
@feynhat invite
@Balarka I swear I wanted to do analysis today. I just.. ended up here.
@Thorgott That's worse
@BalarkaSen I can go back to category theory if you want
You studied C* algebras stop doing this bit
When people say analysis I think hard analysis, when I say analysis I think beautiful measure theory and functional analysis/operator algebras
15:05
Ah yeah i'm sure there are no epsilons in those
lol
I'm not sure what hard analysis is, but the name suggests that I also don't want to know
@Thorgott To rephrase: we consider the collection of subsets of $\Bbb R$ of the form $f(X)$. Suppose we are further given that every $f(X)$ is bounded; then $f(X)$ is closed. For if $y \not \in f(X)$, then post-compose with the map $g: \Bbb R \setminus y \to\Bbb R$ given by $x \mapsto 1/(y-x)$. Because $gf$ is bounded, we see that $f(X)$ does not accumulate towards $y$. Therefore if every real function is bounded, they also all have closed image.
(I just wanted to avoid the contradiction.)
ah, that's neater
so the desired property is indeed equivalent to pseudocompactness
what's a pseudocompact space that isn't seq compact
oh wait, $I^I$ will do
15:26
turns out a Tychonoff space is pseudocompact iff any countable open cover has a finite dense subcollection
enough topology for today, time to go back to analysis
math.stackexchange.com/questions/3637584/… if anyone knows any applications you know where to reach me
"topology
16:10
@MikeMiller !
Thank you so much,
I have a question about (8). Does 'convex hull is m-dimensional' mean it is convex hull of m+1 points?
Also, the hyperplane in (4) is the same as the hyperplane in (7), right?
@feynhat No, I mean dimension as a topological space. We see in (9) that this convex hull is a ball, and we need to know its dimension.
A 2-dimensional convex hull need not be the convex hull of 3 points, or every 2D convex hull [of a finite set] would be a triangle. But of course, convex n-gons exist (convex hulls of n+1 points).
Yes, the hyperplane in (7) is equal to the hyperplane in (4). (This is what (3) gives us.)
@MikeMiller Oh, of course.
16:26
Sorry; hyperplane of (7) is the same as hyperplane of (4) by definition. Points 5-6 are about calculating its dimension.
[When I said that I thought the hyperplane of 4 was defined to be spanned by the n-k+1 special barycenters, because I did not check back.]
I'm sure I could have written that with better notation, thanks for bearing with me.
@MikeMiller Wait. I agreed with this.
Hyperplane in (4) = span of $B_\sigma$ and each $B_{\{i\}}$? and Hyperplane in (7) = span of $B_S$ where $\sigma \subset S$.
All I'm saying is that my notation was bad, not that (4), (7) are different hyperplanes.
@feynhat Oh, you're right. I was right the first time
I'm not doing my best today.
So, not 'by definition', rather by (3).
@MikeMiller Again, thanks a lot.
16:43
For sure. Kind of fun to think about.
Where are you reading this proof?
Hi all.
@MikeMiller uhh... in the link that you posted here?
Oh, I thought you were reading it somewhere more formal.
I actually asked for that in my initial message.
I figured you were reading Seifert-Threlfall or something, and I was surprised it was so clear, lol.
16:50
I mean, I have read the other proof from somewhere more formal: Bott&Tu, Hatcher.
Yeah, I understand. Poincare's original proof can actually be made rigorous though, which is what I meant I thought you were reading. I've never actually read through Poincare's argument itself, just other people talking about it (until the picture was clear).
That's the geometer's way.
I always thought Poincare thought in terms of the intersection pairing, but maybe I am wrong
The one thing I can't actually remember is how to construct the actual dual submanifold.
@BalarkaSen He did, the point is that you have an intersection pairing between the given triangulation and the dual cell complex which is nondegenerate by the way you've built it
I feel like I remember there being a formula for which cells to add to get the dual guy though
Right, agreed. I remember being mildly surprised when I saw the intersection thing built in in the definition of cup product as well (the pair of faces you evaluate the two cochains on intersect in a lower dimension face)
It's kind of everywhere
16:56
(For instance observe that to get the Poincare dual to a vertex in the hollow tetrahedron = S^2, you have to sum over all the dual cells, not just the dual cell to that vertex, which very much is not a cycle)
Probably the smart play is to do it for RP^2.
I don't have time to do that computation today though
Hi chat, I don't wanna interrupt you, but if any of you know by chance a bit of toric geometry, I'd be very happy to discuss about this question regarding an isomoprhism of the group of $T$-invariant Cartier divisors

https://math.stackexchange.com/questions/3638584/isomorphism-of-the-group-of-t-invariant-cartier-divisors

Thanks for the time and enjoy your day!
Hahaha there's maybe one guy who can help
@loch
And even that is a stretch
@cupoftea I upvoted your question because it scared me shitless
5
Probably one of the more objective upvoting criteria I have seen.
@BalarkaSen how much algebraic geometry have you done?
Practically none
17:05
well thanks @BalarkaSen ahahahah
I never got the chance to take any algebraic geometry courses.
I did and I regret taking one
I did. Not sure I ever understood any AG really
Especially intersection theory was a complete mystery, even though the teacher was great
17:08
It's a hot topic on any math discord I have been on.
Are you on Proper Math
@BalarkaSen Hey. Can we talk about Poincare duality?
@anakhro "LeTs ReAd VaKiLs NoTeS".
I had to pick between AG and class field theory in the first semester of my masters (could only do one due to overlapping classes times), I did AG because it seemed like an important topic to know something about, but I think I would have enjoyed class field theory more
Also I understood nothing in the AG course so...
@BalarkaSen you mean Proper Memes? no
@AlessandroCodenotti what did they cover in the AG course?
@feynhat I guess, but I don't think I have anything precise to say, so that might be a disappointment for you
17:11
you guys sure make me look forward to AG
I decided what I wanted to say is not really too interesting after all
scheme theory, from the basics to sheaves of Kähler differentials
I think classical AG with a strong emphasis on historical development of the subject would be beneficial. It's one of the most historically important subjects along with number theory, but most syllabi I have seen seem to fall short of this expectation.
@anakhro I don't remember them changing the name of the channel, no
Roughly the first half of Vakil, skipping a lot of things here and there
17:13
@Thorgott Even though I never felt like I understood any AG properly, I still did quite a bit of stuff that relied on stuff that only even makes sense with schemes
So it is not all bad
@BalarkaSen Sure. I am not looking for anything precise. I just wanted some geometric intuition for it. The diagram chasey proof doesn't really tell much.
Alright come to garbology
I'll start a rant there
@BalarkaSen it was a hit at the content of the discord in recent memory.
17:44
@anakhro do you agree with my answer here?
yo what's up my brodog
What answer?
math.stackexchange.com/a/3638560/460999 this one I'm not sure if it's appropriate for math s.e.
What is a "congruent structure"?
yeah that's the problem
should I delete it?
If you don't have a definition for "congruent structure", then yeah, the theorem doesn't make sense.
17:47
okay cool
@geocalc33 If you are not sure what the term means, why claim it in an answer?
I was planning on revising it later
I'm okay deleting it, someone probably has a better answer out there
What have you been up to lately, @geocalc33?
I've been talking walks, runs, doing math, meditating mostly
taxes as well
@anakhro and you?
Just finished classes. Now cleaning my kitchen.
17:53
i think im supposed to know toric geometry
but i dont really know because fans and polytopes scare me

anyway

to recover your Cartier divisor i think you can just define D = \sum a_{\rho} D_{\rho}

where a_{\rho} = m_{\sigma}(u_{\rho}) for any \sigma

the fact that your (m_i) lives in the kernel should ensure that this is well-defined
glad you had something to say, i had guessed toric geometry wasn't your game
@TobiasKildetoft youre absolutely right I deleted the answer and edited the question
@anakhro what classes?

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