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01:24
$\Phi(s)=\sum e^{-(n^s)}=e^{-s}+e^{-(2^s)}+e^{(-3^s)}+\cdot\cdot\cdot $
does this have a name?
yes, $\Phi$
you gave it a name, therefore it has that as a name
e^{-(1^s)}
I mean has noone named it before?
01:39
Is there a reason to name it? Does it have nice properties?
I'm trying to determine the value of $\Phi(2)$
just to be clear, i take the above remark to be that the first term should be $e^{-1^s}$ not $e^{-s}$
nah, I thought that would be a wonderful name
as far as the sereies itself, I think it's more interesting to consider this direction: Let $F(x)=\sum x^{-n^2}$
because that actually is a studied series
what is it?
theta function?
01:42
i think i actually asked a few questions about it
yeah, it is. i actually asked $\sum x^{-2^n}$
which is a bit different
x^{-(1^2)}
oh that's a neat series
I always call functions by their first name
so via WA it claims that $\Phi(2)$ is related to a theta function
that is, it tells me that the closed form is in terms of a theta function I suppose
yeah, theta 3 I think?
01:49
yep theta 3 it says
i've run into that in the past, in the following way
In physics, you often deal with periodic potentials
usually you model them with trig polynomials because that's easy to write out
it's hard to come up with exact solutions to problems in that case, though. you can get approximations easily enough, but not exact
as an alternative, you may want to build up a periodic potential in another way. one way which I've had cause to use, at times, is to put down a periodic array of gaussian distributions
e.g. $F(x)=\sum_{n=-\infty}^\infty e^{-a(x-n)^2}$
wow :0
which, nicely enough, is just the Jacobi 3rd theta function
I'm thinking that maybe the sum for $\Phi$ should run from $n=-\infty$ to $n=\infty?$
did I define it wrong
it's not a big issue, actually: the sum over negative integers is the same as over positive integers b/c (-n)^2=n^2
$$\sum_{n=-\infty}^\infty x^{-n^2}=\sum_{n=-\infty}^{-1} x^{-n^2}+x^{-1}+\sum_{n=1}^{\infty} x^{-n^2}=1+2\sum_{n=1}^\infty x^{-n^2}$$
So it's just a linear transformation from one version to the other
02:03
oh nice I'll write that down
it does make a bigger difference for the Jacobi theta function, though, because in that case it's $\sum_{n=-\infty}^\infty w^n q^{n^2}$
oops, $1/x+2\sum_{n=1}^\infty x^{-n^{2}}$
so it is a bit more significant
i think in the jacobi theta case you get $$\sum_{n=-\infty}^\infty w^n q^{n^2} = q+\sum_{n=1}^\infty (w^n+w^{-n})q^{n^2}$$
so more relevant there
wait. no, it should be 1
ugh, careless of me
so $F(x)$
that was the theta function of a real variable?
i think q is typically complex, actually
not sure about w
but theta functions are very much denizens of the complex plane
yeah I saw a cool animation of them undergoing a transformation on the complex plane
02:29
@Semiclassical I assumed that deformation was not allowed. I thought that square will remain as it.
it's got hinges
doesn't it?
in that case, the system can change shape while the rods remain rigid
02:47
@Semiclassical oh yeah! The word “hinges” allows for sliding and turning, ha?
right
one bit i find annoying is that the rods as massive
03:19
LOL
as compared with, say, the hinges as massive
 
1 hour later…
04:39
@Knight so, after a long calculation via lagrangian mechanics (probably way more complicated than necessary but idk) I find that hinge A actually will initially accelerate-away- from C i.e. away from the direction of pull
C moves in the expected direction, which causes B and D to move inwards. but this makes A want to move away from the center of mass
i suspect, though, that the right POV is that of the COM frame.
in that case, C moving outwards means that B,D move inwards and A moves outwards. but that means that A moves away from C
so...kinda goofy
i'm not altogether certain about my numbers, though
@Semiclassical I’ll have a serious look on that. I will let you know about my new solution (taking your above message as a hint)
yeah. i very much don't suggest the lagrangian mech route tho
there has to be a better route
going to the COM frame seems like a good idea tho
 
3 hours later…
07:35
Why can i not find anything about the notation or the details of the Maximum function? Max ( here numbers ) = Gives you biggest number. Is this function linear? can someone give me an article to read?
Hi @TedShifrin
 
2 hours later…
10:00
Hi ! im doing (b). assuming $L^1(G)$ has a unit i want to show $G$ is discretre.
i think this should use some kind of substitution with the modular function but im not sure how to do that. can someone help?
10:23
@BalarkaSen What is the argument that for the topological boundary, we can locally find neighborhoods that are diffeomorphic to the upper half plane? I can see that if the derivative is non-vanishing, then by the global rank theorem, we have slice charts, and hence the boundary is a smoothly embedded 1-dim submanifold. Is that enough for the whole thing to be a 2-manifold with boundary?
Would the general formulation be: if we have an n-manifold, and we look at a subset (giving it the subspace topology) whose topological boundary is a smoothly embedded (n-1)-manifold, then this whole subset is a smoothly embedded n-manifold?
I do know this ^ goes the other way around.
It follows from the immersion theorem, @Sha
No way, @BalarkaSen, Sha has some strange statements here that don't seem to have smoothness "up to" the boundary
I am not reading Sha's general statements. I told her that the domain bounded by a smooth Jordan curve is a 2-manifold with boundary
That follows from immersion theorem
Just pick any non-smooth function f on [-1,1] that vanishes on the boundary, and consider the graph over D^2 of f(|z|). Then the boundary of this graph is a smoothly embedded circle but the disc is not smoothly embedded. One can even rig this example so that the graph is smoothly embedded except at the boundary.
I agree with your most recent statement
I'm not sure what the immersion theorem would be. Is it the global rank thm for immersions?
@MikeMiller thx for the counterexample. (I was just wondering if that general statement were true, then this specific case would hold by virtue of that)
10:29
Yeah, but it would be crazy to think that smoothness is determined just by what it does on the boundary, so there had to be a c/e :)
Well, my reasoning was that the topological interior were open, so we had a smooth embedding for that anyways
So all we had to do was check the topological boundary
Hadn't thought it through tho
@MikeMiller Your example is a manifold with corners, right? at \pm 1 it's a teardrop
or am I misunderstanding the picture
My picture should be radially symmetric
Since the function only depends on |z|
you're right that one should have f'(0) = 0 for the above to work
@ShaVuklia Oh the boundary is codim 1. Then you're fine.
Yeah I was really confused, Sha's statement is true
But honestly something must be going wrong because that's a weird question for us to be thinking about
@BalarkaSen Ambient space was unspecified.
I had to go back to your comment about interior of Jordan curves to see that it's codim 1
10:35
I see what you were giving a counterexample to now
What are we even talking about to begin with? Why are we in the weeds?
and it works on the boundary because of implicit function theorem?
no
not the right theorem
@MikeMiller She wanted to understand the most general form of domains in Green's theorem
well, not the most general form, it can be a bit more specific
I told her they are manifold with corners; regions bounded by piecewise smooth curves are like that
10:36
in my reader for complex analysis, they talk about jordan curves
so I wanted to verify that piecewise smooth jordan curves do satisfy these conditions for Green
so basically what I want is: if we have connected bounded subset of the plane, whose boundary is given by finitely many piecewise (disjoint) smooth jordan curves
then this is an embedded 2-dim manifold of the plane
it will do for me if I can show it for a simple closed smooth jordan curve
i.e., I'd be happy enough if I understand that case
Ok. Then this is really straightforward, we shouldn't need to do anything complicated
You have a smooth Jordan curve $\gamma$. That is an embedded curve. What can you say about embedded submanifolds, locally?
why is it embedded? the derivative might vanish right
that's not what a smooth jordan curve means
Smooth Jordan curve to me and Mike means smoothly embedded
right right okay
10:40
Injective smooth maps from S^1 to R^2 can be arbitrarily bad; you can have a Cantor set of cusps
Also guaranteed that's what your CA people even if they don't make it explicit.
then we know that the curve locally looks like a mapping that sends t to (t,0)
@ShaVuklia In this chart, where is the interior of that curve sent? Maybe draw a picture of a Jordan curve and a chart around a point.
that's the thing... I know the interior should be sent to some upper plane part
but
wait
it's a homeomorphism
and the interior part is connected (if we choose our chart small enough)
so it has to be send to one half of the plan (intersected with the image ofc)
ah, I think that's the argument
I'm just assuming that the image of my charts $\varphi: U \to \Bbb R^2$ is all of $\Bbb R^2$.
10:43
That's correct, @Sha.
Yes. You are finished with the smooth case.
my issue was that I didn't realise that the chart was defined on an open subset of the whole manifold x) for some reason I thought it was only defined for the curve. but we have a specifik representation on the curve, that's all
If you wanted to do the corner pieces (where it's piecewise smooth), you would instead show that there is a diffeomorphism to the upper-right quadrant. That is only a little more tricky.
@ShaVuklia Yes, it's very important that this local model is for the pair $S \subset M$ of a manifold and embedded submanifold.
If it we're just of $S$, we wouldn't know anything new! We would just be seeing that S is a manifold.
This local model for immersions is what Balarka calls the immersion theorem
right
@MikeMiller I have to think a bit, because now we have to extend stuff right
Oh I don't suggest thinking about this
10:46
Lol
It's irritating
oh hahah
There's an annoying issue when it's cusp-like so that the tangent lines of the smooth pieces limit to the same line at the corner point
yea, I am happy to leave that for now
I don't think I consider that a smooth embedding
10:47
It's still a piecewise smooth Jordan curve isn't it
Lol shit you're right
there should be more hypothesis to rid of those points
oh well
It seems totally unnecessary to do that
is there a surjective immersion $\Bbb R^1 \to \Bbb R^2$?
No think about it
10:48
Lmao
Immersion theorem
I found a theorem named "local immersion theorem" saying that around any $x$ and $f(x)$ are local coordinates where $f(x) = (x,0)$
@BalarkaSen All of these guys should be the limit of C^1 curves if you're allowed to reparam each arc, and surely there's some limiting argument that says that if you have Greens over domains with C^1 boundary you get it with bad boundary
is this the theorem you're referring to as "immersion theorem"?
yea, that's what Balarka means by immersion thm
But perhaps this is the h-principles subtlety you've pointed out to me before
Because as you wiggle the C^1 curve you introduce distortion to the 1-form you integrate
10:51
Yeah that's true
Hm
Leaky didn't you spend time formalizing manifolds in Lean?
someone tried and made a mess
apparently atlas is too hard for them
I have no idea why
ah do I follow up with BCT
@infinity you can probably get somewhere by multiplying your unit with indicator function of an element
@loch hey
you came just at the right moment
lmfao
@Leaky the inclusion of R in R^2 is not surjective
10:53
@BalarkaSen but that's just a local coordinate, I don't know if I can extend the neighbourhood
And countable compactness (lindelof?), if you want to extend your statement to arbitrary immersions with domain of smaller dimension
@LeakyNun sup
But like surely you have heard the name Sard's theorem before
oh right
lmao
I tried reading the proof once
@LeakyNun say what mate? you just wanted to know if it's surjective
10:54
I fell asleep
if it's not surjective on local coordinates it's not surjective bruh
@BalarkaSen He's saying you need to point out that the image is a finite union of these local pictures
If it was an uncountable union you could be aurkective
or just countable
That's why I said the countable compactness crap
ah fine
10:55
@loch I said BCT right above your message
oh
lmao
there are of course immersions R -> T^2 which are close to being surjective
(dense)
why T^2?
like wrap a line around a torus with irrational slope
I'm very confused now; why doesn't BCT give you a contradiction
10:58
Q is a countable union of points but Q is dense in R
why is that not a contradiction to BCT? :P
oh no
Leaky your brain is becoming Lean
(rekt)
I think I've seen Green's stated for rectifiable curves
BCT: intersection of countably many dense open sets is still dense
dense open set means $\overline{U} = X$
he will formally negate this statement now
11:01
so complement has empty interior
lmao
so union of countably many closed sets with empty interior has empty interior
doesn't mean it can't be dense
how about immersion R -> R^2 with dense image
I think I can surjectively immerse torus minus a point in R^2
Then R -> T^2, chuck a point not in the image, and compose with this
@LeakyNun That statement is exactly how BCT is used very often
should be possible
11:03
@AlessandroCodenotti yeah but it wasn't on wiki so i had to formally dualize it
Sure, why not. In the time interval [0,1], trace out (a smoothing of) the unit square; in next few time intervals trace out the unit squares adjacent to this one; then for the next 9 time intervals trace out a subdivision of that unit square into smaller squares (you have more length to trace out, and so you must traverse more quickly)
that makes sense
Just keep doing this and for each n you have some interval [0, c_n] so that its image a curve in [-n, n] with any point say 1/n from a point in the image
So in the end you're dense
I know I'm dense
@MikeMiller is that a roast
11:05
If you have some requirement on the size of the derivative probably not
@BalarkaSen lol he self roasted
@BalarkaSen Nice idea
Re formalization
I saw a question on MO from a few years back asking what a perfectoid space is
the top answer is Peter Scholze (who else) and the next answer is Kevin Buzzard spamming Lean codes
"A perfectoid space is a term of type PerfectoidSpace in the Lean theorem prover."
@LeakyNun That's what you get for checking wiki before mathlib
55
A: What are "perfectoid spaces"?

Kevin BuzzardHere is a completely different kind of answer to this question. A perfectoid space is a term of type PerfectoidSpace in the Lean theorem prover. Here's a quote from the source code: structure perfectoid_ring (R : Type) [Huber_ring R] extends Tate_ring R : Prop := (complete : is_complete_hausd...

the second answer is Kevin Buzzard (who else) and the top answer is Peter Scholze spamming math equations
@loch Thanks. do you mean that if $\delta$ is a unit then to see what is $\delta X_{\{e\}}$ ?
11:15
I can't even find the definition in Peter's answer
> Theorem: Let $(R,R^+)$ be an affinoid perfectoid $K$-algebra, with tilt $(R^\prime,R^{\prime +})$. Let $X=\mathrm{Spa}(R,R^+)$, with $\mathcal{O}_X$ etc., and $X^\prime = \mathrm{Spa}(R^\prime,R^{\prime +})$, etc. .
i) We have a canonical homeomorphism $X\cong X^\prime$, given by mapping $x$ to $x^\prime$ defined via $|f^\prime(x^\prime)| = |[f^\prime] (x)|$. Rational subsets are identified under this homeomorphism.
ii) For any rational subset $U\subset X$, the pair $(\mathcal{O}_X(U),\mathcal{O}_X^+(U))$ is affinoid perfectoid with tilt $(\mathcal{O}_{X^\prime}(U),\mathcal{O}_{X^\prime}^
@BalarkaSen "a few years back"
I feel old
I was witnessing this whole thing in the Lean chat
@BalarkaSen here is the archive of the thread: leanprover-community.github.io/archive/116395maths/…
3025 messages, latest: Jul 11 2019 at 16:49
MO answer: answered Jul 31 '18 at 11:53
first message in thread:
> Kevin Buzzard (May 30 2018 at 13:22):
Ok so here is the perfectoid spaces thread. As many people here know, I've long been mulling over the idea of formalising the notion of a perfectoid space in Lean. To the CS people -- it's just some structure, like a group, just a few more axioms and things.
He sends a message to chat every time he writes a sentence
Makes it unreadable
Just put related sentences in the same paragraph!
11:24
Lolol
when he did this thing the archive didn't exist, and on the chat it looked fine
I am a busy man and this chat eats up my time
Leaky is popular on the LeanProver community
dang
@LeakyNun You know Kevin irl?
he's the reason I know Lean
11:36
IF $X$ is a topological space and every continuous function $f\colon X\rightarrow\mathbb{R}$ attains a maximum, is $X$ necessarily compact? It's true for metric spaces.
@Thorgott How about the first uncountable order
Take the deleted Tychonoff plank. Every continuous function extends to a continuous function on the one-point compactification, since the Stone-Cech compactification and the one-point compactification of the Tychonoff plank agree.
That should be a ctrexample
@MikeMiller Lol yeah $\beta \omega_1 = \omega_1^*$
I gave an unnecessarily complicated example
I thought about $\omega_2+1$ but unfortunately it is compact
Look you just want $\beta X = X^*$
That's the general nonsense answer
oh, $\beta$ is related to this attaining maximum thing?
11:51
@infinity yes, or replace e with any other g too
@BalarkaSen I kid you not, I'm now working with a diagram whose topology is R x [0,1] with (x,0) ~ (x+1,1)
by diagram I mean commuting diagram
what is that space
oh I guess it's just a cylinder
"slanted"
just cylinder, yes
my diagram chasing just got to a whole new level
11:53
what are you doing
is this spectral sequence bull
it's homework
no
what course tho
algebraic topology
is this cellular homology
11:54
@BalarkaSen i too publish all my results in the spectral sequence bulletin
those are the only places in algebraic topology i know diagonal arrows exist
@MikeMiller lmao
Resident Evil 4 is actually not so bad
I don't know why people shit on it
it's a fine shooter. surely not survival horror by any means but thats ok
:O @BalarkaSen is a gamer?
Hi @MikeMiller, @LeakyNun.
@BalarkaSen is it a theorem that every diagram I draw commutes
it's a divergence from the previous games, which were survival horror and you definitely couldn't just shoot all of the mobs
It was fine but you don't get spooked
Okay, so I have a question about Poincare duality's proof.
I've seen a couple of proofs of Poincare duality. One is Mayer-Vietorisy proof, and the other is Hodge theoretic one. But neither give any insight into what is actually going on. Like how, Hatcher discusses the notion of dual cell structures, but abandons it for the cap-product formalism when he gets into the actual proof. I am sure none of this nonsense existed during OG Poincare's time. Has some one read the proof by Poincare? Or some other proof that has more geometric intuition?
12:07
Let's see if I can do any better this time
...or maybe the Mayer-Vietorisy proof has some geometric insight which I am failing to see.
22
A: Poincare Duality Reference

Ryan BudneyAs far as I know, the only textbook reference for this approach, which is Poincare's original approach, is Seifert and Threlfall's text "A textbook of topology". It's available in English translation but the original was in German. Moreover, Seifert and Threlfall's proof isn't as efficient as i...

Every subring of a field is an integral domain?
Oh, no
I can see that $\omega_1=\bigcup_{\alpha<\omega_1}\alpha$ is an open cover without finite subcover since $\omega_1$ is a limit ordinal, but I don't see why every continuous function $f\colon\omega_1\rightarrow\mathbb{R}$ attains a maximum.
I thought I had an idea, but just now I realized that initial segments aren't connected :/
@topologicalorientablesurface non-trivial*
Consider R and 2Z
R is a field, 2Z subring, not an integral doman
12:19
What are your definitions of subring and integral domain
I don't know why people say subring to mean things without 1
oh, you're considering rings without unity
but still, how is $2\mathbb{Z}$ not an integral domain
@Thorgott My recollection from a half decade ago is that all functions on the first uncountable ordinal are eventually constant
So maybe having something specific to show will make this easier
@Thorgott integral domains have unity
Yeah, subring may not have 1
Pointless definition honestly
Show that a subring with 1 of an integral domain is am integral domain
@loch but we don't know that $X_{\{e\}}$ is measurable.. this is kinda equivalent to what is asked to prove
12:25
@Thorgott If you had a function without maximum you could use that to build a monotone function $\omega_1\to\Bbb R$
@mike miller , yeah that is trivial. I was asking if subring had no 1
Which 2Z and R forms a counter example
Prove or disprove: for all x,y ∈Z+ if xRy, then (x + 2y)R(2x + 3y)
@MikeMiller Is there an easy way to see why a k-facet of an n-simplex is contained in exactly (n-k) many facets of the simplex?
What is a facet, undecorated? (n-1)-facet?
Thanks, I'll think about this for a bit. Meanwhile I'll ask the follow-up: is there a nice condition on $X$ (weaker than metrizability) such that all continuous functions $f\colon X\rightarrow\mathbb{R}$ attaining a maximum implies $X$ is compact?
12:29
A k-facet of an n-simplex can be thought of as a k+1-element subset of {0,...,n}. An (n-1)-facet containing the k-facet, an n-element subset containing your k+1 elements.
To find that n-element set you just need to know which element you don't include.
So that's picking an element out if the remaining (n+1)-(k+1) = n-k elements.
Any one know how to tackle for all x,y ∈Z+ if xRy, then (x + 2y)R(2x + 3y)
Such kind of problem ?
@MikeMiller I think undecorated facet = *-facet.
I know equivalence relation and relation definition.
In the example given in the post, he considers an edge of $\Delta^3$, this edge is contained in that edge itself, two adjacent copies of $\Delta^2$ and the $\Delta^3$.
So, I think when he writes facet undecorated, he means any dimensional facet.
Also, ignore what I wrote about the facet being contained in (n-k) many facets.
The general statement is that a k-facet lies in C(n-k, l-k) l-facets.
You get 2^{n-k} total facets that a k-facet lies in, and 2^n facets containing a given vertex.
12:40
@MikeMiller Yes. I see that, this just follows from an argument similar to what you did for l=n-1.
Yeah, I was just copying down the result.
@MikeMiller Right. Now, why is the convex hull of the barycentres of these 2^(n-k) facets, an (n-k)- cell?
Oh that's interesting. Let me think.
Probably we want to use barycentric coordinates.
@feynhat I need a very simple help of yours. It’s related to rotational Mechanics, if you’re not too busy can I ask for it?
@infinity uhh so your concern is that G is not Hausdorff?
12:54
@Knight What gave you the idea that I knew anything about rotational biology? Just post your question if anyone can help you, they will.
If we got a rod $AB$ with mass $m$, and a force of magnitude $F_1$ is applied at $A$, how much force would be felt by $B$
@loch the only assumption about $G$ is that $G$ is locally compact. i thought maybe taking $U \subset G\setminus \{e\}$ open and look at $\delta X_U$. but i got stuck with this approach.
@feynhat Sorry for disturbing you, you once mentioned ISER so I thought physics might be your one of the favourite subjects
1 min ago, by Knight
If we got a rod $AB$ with mass $m$, and a force of magnitude $F_1$ is applied at $A$, how much force would be felt by $B$
$F_1$ is $\perp$ to $AB$
@feynhat I think I have it, but the notation sucs.
12:59
Write $x_0, \cdots, x_n$ for the vertices in $\Delta^n$. We say that $[a_0, \cdots, a_n]$ are barycentric coordinates for a point $P$ in $\Delta^n$ if we have $$P = \frac{a_0 x_0 + \cdots + a_n x_n}{a_0 + \cdots + a_n},$$ where $a_i \geq 0$ and not all $a_i$ are zero. We consider these equivalent if they are positive scalar multiples of each other.

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