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00:00
@ÉricoMeloSilva Oh, ok. I assumed gravity was one, but that was as far as I got. I'm going to skim the book for background info :P
@TedShifrin the fields don't combine, but I think there's only one force (and I think there's a transform that turns electric field into magnetic field and vice versa but can Erico back me up)
both carried by photon
@KarlKronenfeld please enlighten us
@LeakyNun the difference is whether things are moving iirc
@ÉricoMeloSilva that's what Veritasium says
00:02
@LeakyNun lol that's all I know about the electromagnetic force
Yep, found it.
idk physics lol
but I'm not sure how reliable Veritasium is
(are Maxwell's equations relevant?)
maxwell's equations are the most important thing in E&M lmao
@LeakyNun Oh, I had to learn about those when I did a research project on radar.
00:07
man I know next to nothing in physics
(I don't think high school physics counts at all)
sounds like you know more about physics than me
in The h Bar, 2 mins ago, by danielunderwood
Yes they change based on frame (for example, take an infinite line charge and move it along the axis)
@MatheinBoulomenos also hi
this confirms Veritasium's viewpoint
@MatheinBoulomenos in my mod rep lecture we're learning about SL2(p)
I just feel like this group pops up in every representation theory
00:22
Am I right in thinking that $\frac{\left<\mathbf{e}^i, \mathbf{e}'^j\right>}{||\mathbf{e}'^j||^2}$ is the correct way to convert a basis $\mathbf{e}$ to a basis $\mathbf{e}'$?
hmm but as is the case with everything else, there is dissent in the post I linked
it's so hard to get right information
@WilliamOliver only for orthogonal bases
wait I haven't thought about this clearly, ignore me for the moment
I'll call the bases $(b_1, \cdots, b_n)$ and $(c_1, \cdots, c_n)$ to avoid confusion, so given $v = v^i b_i$ we want to find $w^j$ such that $v = w^j c_j$
@LeakyNun well, specifically, I want to represent the vectors $(b_1,⋯,b_n)$ using $(c_1,⋯,c_n)$ but the more general problem is fine too.
@LeakyNun Also, in the context I am working in, it can be assumed that $(b_1, ..., b_n)$ is orthonormal (but the same cannot be assumed about $(c_1, ..., c_n)$)
we know that it must exist, so let it be that, and then $v^i b_i = w^j c_j$. take inner product with $b_k$ to get $\langle c_j, b_k \rangle w^j = \langle b_i, b_k \rangle v^i = v^k$, so $w^j = \langle c_j, b_k \rangle^{-1} v^k$?
I'm not very familiar with eisenstein notation
@WilliamOliver does this look right
you mean einstein
sorry
00:36
Hm that does make sense
can anyone teach me einstein notation
you sum over repeated upper and lower indices, so $a_{i}b^{i}$ is the same as $\sum_{i = 1}^{n}$ a_{i}b^{i}$
sometimes the physicists use greek letters to mean summation starts at $0$ and latin letters to mean summation starts at $1$ bc of the metric in gr
but it's really not any more complicated than that
I think there's more than that
@ÉricoMeloSilva I am kind of new to it, but it is also applied to fractions/derivatives a lot right? So $\frac{a_i}{b_i}$ is often $\sum_i \frac{a_i}{b_i}$
right?
one needs to distinguish rank-(m,n) tensors from say rank-(m+n,0) tensors
$\delta_i^j$ is different from $\delta_{ij}$
but I have a hard time figuring out the rank of the tensors
00:41
sure, u choose which corresponds to which index
upper indices represent components of contravariant vectors
so a (1, 1)-tensor would have coeffs $a_{i}^{j}$ where as a (2, 0) might have $a_{ij}$ or w.e.
@WilliamOliver ive never seen someone write this with fractions but u do it with derivatives all the time
@ÉricoMeloSilva ah okay
@WilliamOliver and it would be $\frac{a_i}{b^i}$ wouldn't it
the index in e.g. $\frac{\partial}{\partial x^{i}}$ is considered a lower index
00:44
@LeakyNun Well with derivatives, upper vs lower indices often aren't really thought about I think
@ÉricoMeloSilva ^^
@ÉricoMeloSilva can I also write $\langle b_i, b_j \rangle$ as $b^i b_j$ or is there a notation that I don't know?
an inner product induces an isomorphism between $V$ and $V^\ast$...
u wouldnt ever write $\langle b_{i}, b_{j} \rangle$ in any context
so what do I write?
$\langle b , b\rangle = b^{i}b_{i}$
@LeakyNun summation is implied over repeated indices, for instance consider the line element $ds^2=g_{ij}dx^idx^j$ that is a sum over i and j
00:46
$b_i$ and $b_j$ are two different vectors
indices are for coefficients of things
@LeakyNun You put indices in an operator that acts on vectors
ah I write $\langle b_i, b_j \rangle$ as $b_i s^{ij} b_j$ don't I, or is this complete nonsense
@LeakyNun ppl who use einstein notation dont write vector like this
$\langle \mathbf{b} , \mathbf{c}\rangle = b^{i}c_{i}$
00:47
@ÉricoMeloSilva they're my basis vectors
$v = v^i b_i$
now I take inner product with $b_j$ on both sides
ah gotcha, then the thing u wrote last is what ud write
what do I get?
w the s^ij
so... $v s^{ij} b_j = v^i b_i s^{ij} b_j$?
@LeakyNun upper indices implies contravariant components
00:48
@mathsssislife is it related to the rank of the tensor?
i.e. do all (1,1)-tensors receive one upper index and one lower index?
but $v^i$ is a scalar (i.e. (0,0)-tensor) that receives an upper index?
Moreover, consider the dot product a $\cdot b$ $ $=$ $a^{i}e_{i} \cdot b^je_{j}$ = $a^{i}b^{j}g_{ij}$ where summation convention is implied
one index is for the components that act like vectors, one index is for the components that act like covectors
@LeakyNun if v^i is the component of something that's why it has an index
what is the "type" of $v^i$ in "$v = v^i b_i$"?
i.e. which vector space does $v^i$ live in?
00:50
Its a contravariant component
Its a contravariant scalar
With a change in basis, it changes in a contravariant way
^^^^
it's a number but it receives a number bc it transforms a certain way under change of basis like William said
so the total number of indices something receives isn't necessarily m+n?
@LeakyNun also with your previous example, you would write @LeakyNun $\langle \mathbf{b}_i, \mathbf{b}^j \rangle = b_{ik}b^{jk}$
what is that?
$i$ and $j$ are called free indices
@LeakyNun your example of the dot product of two sets of basis vectors
00:53
consider the dot product a ⋅b =$a^{i}e_{i}$ $\cdot$ $ b^je_{j}$ = $a^{i}b^{j}g_{ij}$
I thought the basis vectors always get a lower index
where $g_{ij}$ is the metric tensor
@LeakyNun not, it depends on whether or not the basis vector is contravariant or covariant
I'm very confused
how do you determine then
do you need to perform change of basis in your head? or is there a shortcut?
contravariant components transform according to the jacobian while covariant transform like differentials (if I remember correctly0
no
00:54
@LeakyNun Part of the confusion is probably that contravariant and covariant is honestly a very "physicsy" thing, and isn't very mathematically rigorous
a change of basis occurs through the metric tensor
through index juggling
it's rigorous it's just bad terminology lol
@ÉricoMeloSilva yeah haha better way of putting it
$e^i=g^{ij}e_j$
00:55
The real thing to distinguish is whether the index is for a vector that is a vector or a covector. I.e. in the dual space or not
the isomorphism given by the inner product is $g^{ij}$!
which is the inverse metric tensor $g^{ij}g_{jk} $ which gives the kronecker delta
$b^j$ isn't a basis vector, it's a vector in the dual space
literally all this stuff about tensor algebra is overcomplication, you can just write down the multilinear algebra using summation signs, and then suppress them, choosing components coming from the dual to go correspond to upper or lower indices in a consistent way and u have everything
Right, its a basis vector of the dual space
00:57
einstein summation itself literally is just a convention to suppress sigmas, the multilinear is just multilinear, you just have to write things down and make a choice that's consistent
but like how do you convert $g^{ij} e_i e_j$
is $e_i g^{ij} e_j$ actually more correct
metric comes first
@LeakyNun there's a whole book about the rep theory of that one
I don't understand what it means
00:58
by Bonafé
It doesn't matter. They are just scalars
when u write the sum as $\sum_{i, j = 1}^{n} g^{ij} e_{i} e_{j}$ it doesnt matter how you order the summands
You can write them in any order
einstein just says suppress the sigma
the expression you gave means $e^{j}e_{j}$
00:58
I can write them in any order?
sorry i meant
even if I have 10 terms concatenated together?
@LeakyNun in the sum i wrote out does it matter what order the terms of the summand appear in?
that's what I'm asking you
wait they're all scalars?
@LeakyNun yes, what you need to be careful about is changing the indices
00:59
now I'm even more confused
yes they're components
they're all components
components are scalars
sorry for being stupid
@LeakyNun but the order doesn't matter because they are just real numbers
@LeakyNun No, this shit is SO confusing haha
@LeakyNun It took me SO LONG to understand it
01:00
ok let's say we take the standard basis on $\Bbb R^2$
what is the value of $e_1$?
@WilliamOliver please don't be too explicit (for your own sake since you don't know who might report)
just edit your message
I'm not convinced that $e_1$ is a scalar?
when we say $v = v^i e_i$?
@LeakyNun $e_{1}$ is a vector, if you take like, $(v^{1}, v^{2}) = v^{1}e_{1} + v^{2}e_{2} = v^{i}e_{i}$
so not everything is a scalar?
not always
01:02
so if you have a vector $\mathbf{v}$, it is represented like this $\mathbf{v} = v^i\mathbf{e_i}$
@LeakyNun Yeah sorry I mispoke, they aren't necessarily scalars I suppose
then what on earth does $g^{ij} e_i e_j$ even mean?
how should I parse that expression?
But they are always commutative (if the underlying field is commutative)
when you have a metric $g$ with componenets $g_{ij}$ then the inner product of two vectors $(v^{1}, \dots, v^{n})$ and $(w^{1}, \dots, w^{n})$ the inner product is given by $\sum_{i, j =1}^{n} g_{ij} w^{i}w^{j} = g_{ij}w^{i}w^{j}$
$e^je_{j}$
thats what it means
summation is implied
thats not what I'm asking
I'm very confused
01:04
as in what its useful for, i'm not quite sure
what is it about that $g^{ij} g_{kl}$ thing?
If $e_i$ and $e_j$ are vectors in your example
Then that doesn't mean anything
that gives the identity if you were to write everything in matrix form
the kronecker delta
no wait
summation isn't implied
change the k to an i or j
then it gives the identity
einstein convention is for components!
@ÉricoMeloSilva ^^ Usually, everything is scalar
01:06
it aint for summing vectors!
how do I write "$\sum_j w^j \mathbf c_j = \sum_i v^i \mathbf b_j \implies \sum_j w^j \langle \mathbf c_j, \mathbf b^k \rangle = \sum_i v^i \langle \mathbf b_i, \mathbf b^k \rangle$"?
@ÉricoMeloSilva then what am I using when I write $\mathbf{v} = v^i \mathbf{e}_i$?
You can do that, but its just not common
what?
I've seen it like a dozen times
People use it as an example, so that you get the idea
But in that case, the whole thing about contravariant/covariant isn't really relevant
anyway how do I write that example sentence properly?
01:08
u use it to write out the coordinate rep of a vector but u dont ever use it in expressions
i mean u might but when ur doing something like GR ur 90% of the time just computing the components of a tensor or a quantity
$g^{ij}g_{jk}$ = $g^{i}_{k}$ $= \delta^{i}_{k}$
is that an inner product or the pairing of a vector space and it's dual
$g_{ij}$ is the inner product
if it's an inner product b_{k} should have the same index position as the other b_{i} that appear
$g_{ij} = e_{i} \cdot e_{j}$ where the e's are basis vectors
01:13
if it's the pairing then it's appropriate to put the index in upper
either way, literally, einstein summation just suppresses the sigma here, like ive been saying
@LeakyNun your example sentence would be overly complicated haha but assuming the metric tensor is euclidean, it would be something like $w^j \mathbf c_j = v^j \mathbf b_j \implies w^j c_{jl} b^{kl} = v^i b_{il} b^{kl}$
You could think of it as $e_{i}$ $=$ $\{$ $e_1,e_2,e_3 $ $\}$
hmm...
@LeakyNun I am very new at it though, so it could be wrong. But I think thats right
@WilliamOliver what u wrote is correct
i dont like the way the free indices are written though
it makes the $b$s look like they're 2-tensors but theyre not
01:23
@ÉricoMeloSilva How would you fix it?
@ÉricoMeloSilva I think what I wrote implies that the matrix of basis vectors is a 2-tensor
Goodbye!
@mathsssislife bye!
i mean typically like if you have a basis then the pairwise inner products is written like this $\langle b_{i}, b_{k} \rangle = g_{ik}$
bc yeah that defines the components of a two-tensor
Oh I see. That makes sense.
i think Leaky wasnt keeping clear about what spaces the things were living in
to use einstein notation effectively you always have to be totally clear about the linear algebra and where things live, or be a physicist i guess
01:28
Also, I think the way physicists talk about it is really confusing.
@ÉricoMeloSilva ^^ Haha or be a physicist
yeah some of them dont know linear algebra and it makes things bad
i still truly think all this has been overcomplication, einstein is simple all it does is suppress summation signs, the confusion is all linear algebra
I spent a long time trying to figure out why Tensors were generalizations of vectors, only to find out that they aren't.
do they say that lol
Lol yes all the time
idk what physicists even mean when they say vector
i hear it and i think "point in a vector space" but usually they mean a "displacement"
01:35
I think the other thing is that for a mathematician, the difference between covariant and contravariant is arbitrary. Like it depends on what you define to be the dual space. but for a physicists, the distinction is based on physical intuition and what the tensors represent in reality.
this is why i said "you pick which index corresponds" lol
cuz in reality it is just a convention based on choice of dual vs og space
Yeah haha. That took me a really long time to understand
@ÉricoMeloSilva phycists means something that transforms like a vector
ik thanks i hate it :(
@MatheinBoulomenos But thats completely arbitrary haha
01:37
it isnt but it's annoying
I don't even what it means
Well, to a mathematician, vectors don't transform.
sounds like they think about something with a $GL_n$ action
Only its representation transforms
literally it's like they have a picture in there head of what vectors do when u change coordinates
and anything that does the thing they think is a vector
what components of vectors do i should say
01:39
that's really weird
i agree, it makes talking to physicists about things we both care about just a nightmare
really just drop most of the words in that sentence
Once I understood what tensors were I was really mad haha. Its such a simple concept but there are so many different definitions which aren't equivalent (although they are isomorphic) and physicists and mathematicians talk about them in completely different ways.
really it just makes physicists a nightmare
it makes talking about things a nightmare
I've had nice talks with mathematical physicsts but I doubt most physicsts would classify them as physicsts
one of them works on p-adic QFT
01:43
"physics"
sounds like you talked to a mathematician who says the word quantum slightly more often than average
well, he has a physics degree
Actually, this is making me think about something. I was going back through Landau and Lifshitz to try and iron out some reasonings that I skipped over the first time.

https://archive.org/details/Mechanics_541/page/n15

The first equation on the page is given by "neglecting terms above the first order". Why did the author feel justified in doing this? How does this make equality? Shouldn't the equation be approximate?
maybe it's just well known by experiment that it is actually negligible or smth
01:49
Thats what I was thinking
I was wondering when this type of thing is justified in physics reasoning. I've heard that newtonian physics is a first order approximation of QM and Relativity. So when dealing with these perturbations, do we just only consider things equal up to the first order in newtonian physics? Or is it just in this one case?
02:32
I'm working on $\begin{pmatrix}1&1&2&8\\ -1&-2&3&1\\ 3&-7&4&10\end{pmatrix}$, which the question asks to solve by Gaussian elimination, I understand that Gaussian elimination puts the matrix into row echelon (as opposed to reduced row echelon form). Should I aim to perform row operations to turn the -2 into a 1 and the 4 into a 1?
03:21
@AfronPie afron you should read the matrix from left to rigth, start with entry 1,1 and by row operations make evrything below it zero, then move to 2,1 entry make what is below it to 0
it is better to say entry than actual number, because they will change when you do row operations
03:32
$5\square{3x} + 2x**2 – \frac{3x/2}$
$5\sqrt{3x} + 2x^2 – \frac{3x}{2}$
04:25
Ok, ty @Jacksoja
@AfronPie np
@AfronPie also if you want to find the rref you will have to make the entry below ad above the pivot zero
that is the best form for solving linear equation
04:44
@VaneVoe Hi vaneVoe, where are you from ?
 
2 hours later…
06:48
this ibb.co/zQC6Yq4 is a non-convex polygon, so its one internal angle should be greater than 180 degrees. i couldn't locate that angle (its probaly on point C, but which one ACB or ACD) please help
07:25
how many distinct vectors exist, all having unit magnitude perpendicular to given line in space?
My guess is take non colinear vector take cross product of line and that vector it is perpendicular to line ? Making unit magnitude is not tough just we need normalization . Is it right? So ans to such kind of problem is infinite right
Anybody have idea of above problem
08:06
@user629353 Is that a hexagon or a quadrilateral
Like, does it go ABCEDCA or ABDEA
@ninjahatori In 3D or in 2D
In 3D you basically have a circle's worth of choices
08:33
Mornin' all
How's it hangin'
Alright, have a day off tomorrow since it's cold enough that there's a frostbite risk so gonna try to get caught up with work
How about you?
Hey Akiva!
@Daminark damn, it just started snowing and hailing here too lol
I'm just working.. still waiting for my book to arrive
Which book?
08:46
and I just found a new flat to live in :)
local fields lol
Nice! Is it free?
And also nice re Local fields
@Daminark Free as in, costless? lol
I mean free modules are flat so I wonder if in this case the converse holds
o h h h h h
didn't catch that
08:48
hahaha
@ÍgjøgnumMeg Hello !
where does one learn about the norm of Z[i]
seems a bit strange how it is defined
can someone explain a bit?
Norm in the algebraic sense? Should just be the square of the norm as a complex number, no?
Yes it is but sometimes we have to take nearest integer
that part I do no understand
if we take z/w , z and w are in Z[i]
What do you mean nearest integer? What's the context?
Hi @Jacksoja, the norm of $\Bbb Z[i]$ is as @Daminark described it, you'll find it on any text on algebraic number theory
if you're talking about the one I think you're talking about
08:54
Yes I do
Oh are you trying to do the proof of Fermat's theorem on the sum of two squares?
no , this was in abstrat algebra book
Eucledian rings
I do get that we have to define a notion of something is smaller than the other
right, so you're looking at the division algorithm
my question is , if we take z/w
So here's the idea, you define $N(a+bi) = |a+bi|^2$, where $|\cdot |$ is in the sense of the norm of a complex number
08:56
we do not have to get integer coeffients
how does one get around that?
that's not necessarily an element of $\Bbb Z[i]$
This is true, the point is that you're not just consider a norm on $\mathbb{Z}[i]$
but rather $\Bbb Q(i)$
alright I'll go back to my job rofl
exactly
but there is a long part, explaining how to take the nearest integer
It's just the restriction of a norm on complex numbers
08:57
@ÍgjøgnumMeg what is your job and good luck ^^
Oh rip were you on lunch break or something? @Igjo
@Daminark thanks, Ill look for the definiton and come back
@Daminark no I just arrived at work and don't really start until like 9.30am
What time is it now?
08:59
Ah
@ÍgjøgnumMeg what is your job? ^^
@Jacksoja I work in the IT department at my university
and spend my time doing mathematics on the side
lol
lol cool
best job ever
you live in London yeah?
You told me before but I forgot
No I live in a small city called Plymouth in the South West of the UK
neat
09:03
it actually kinda sucks and there are no number theorists working down here
@ÍgjøgnumMeg why would that be an issue ?
@Jacksoja because I'm interested in number theory
@ÍgjøgnumMeg you mean where you work at the moment or in general there are none ?
@ÍgjøgnumMeg never mind i think I get it, have a good working day !
Number theorists went extinct in 1967
that's a myth
09:09
@Jacksoja there are no number theorists in Plymouth Uni
lol
that is problematic yes
I have a small question about gcd
if d is a divisor of a_1, ..., a_r
@Jacksoja the norm on $\Bbb Z[i]$ gives you integers; the "nearest integer" bit comes up when you're trying to prove that the norm induces a Euclidean domain
more generally you have a norm $N_{\Bbb Q(i)/\Bbb Q} : \Bbb Q(i) \to \Bbb Q$ which restricts to a norm $N : \Bbb Z[i] \to \Bbb Z$
09:42
If $\Gamma_1,\Gamma_2 \subset PSL(2,\mathbb{R})$ are two Fuchsian groups with $\Gamma_1 \backslash \mathbb{H}^2$ homeomorphic to $\Gamma_2 \backslash \mathbb{H}^2$, does it follow that there is an isomorphism $\Gamma_1 \xrightarrow{\cong} \Gamma_2$ which maps parabolic (resp. hyperbolic) elements to parabolic (resp. hyperbolic) elements?
Or does every isomorphism $\Gamma_1 \xrightarrow{\cong} \Gamma_2$ do so?
 
2 hours later…
11:39
@Jacksoja what's the question?
12:11
@ÍgjøgnumMeg I want to say if e is any other common divisor it has to divide d
d being the gcd
but the proof of this seems to just stating that e divides x_1 a_1 +.....+x_r a_r =d
seems that e and d don't differ much in this way of proving it
I know it is true ( intuition from integers ) that any other divisors has to divide the gcd
but not sure how to prove that in a good way
@Jacksoja well if $e \mid a_i$ for each $i$ then $d = e(x_1a_1^\prime + \cdots + x_ra_r^\prime)$ where $ea_i^\prime = a_i$
so you've got $e\mid d$
what's wrong with that?
(and you can see that $x_1a_1^\prime + \dots + x_ra_r^\prime \neq 1$ unless $e = d$ by Bezout)
(because if you remove a factor of $d$ from all of the $a_i$ then they are coprime, since $d$ is the gcd of the $a_i$)
@ÍgjøgnumMeg ah thanks, the coprime part was crutial for me to get it
No worries
 
1 hour later…
13:36
Hmmm, is there a term for a relation on a set which is reflexive, antisymmetric, and transitive for all except one element in the set?
A kind of "disconnected ordering," as it were. The idea is to allow one element to be both the greatest and least element.
14:15
@LeakyNun exactly but how to compute the nearest integer?
@LeakyNun taking the quotient for example z/w , z,w in C
14:30
@ÍgjøgnumMeg are you still at work ?
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