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15:00
So, we've just proved that $\operatorname{Ext}^n(M,I) = 0$ for $n \geq 1$...
If $I$ is an injective module.
Eh, I was here but I wasn't here.
UD's book, like the links that Eugene posted, is directed at mathematicians who are trying to deal with cranks, not at people who want to know if they might be cranks.
Of course, a real crank is firmly convinced that he is not a crank.
But someone who is a semicrank might get the advice early enough to head off the problem.
@MarkDominus that is one of the signs.
What is?
a crank is convinced he is not a crank and all his peers are incorrect
15:03
Didn't I just say that?
@MarkDominus i know i was just highlighting it
of course einstein fulfilled the criteria of a crank initially
Can I prove that I'm not a crank by saying I'm firmly convinced that I am a crank?
@tb No. But we know that you're not so no need to prove anything.
@MattN Actually, I think this question might imply that I am a crank... Anyway. I should be going. See you guys later.
Tim
Tim
@tb Good proving skill
15:05
See you later!
@tb i don't think so
@tb It's not enough to say it; you have to actually believe it.
@tb bye!
Yes. Like the other Ext(P,N) thingies are equally boring if $P$ is projective in $Hom(P,N)$.
@MattN the other way around.
@MarkDominus Ooh, there's my mistake. Thanks. I knew there was a flaw in my argument! :)
Now I'm off. Bye.
15:06
: )
Me too.
By crank you mean the L thingy next to the pedal?
@Gigili that's a clutch no?
Tim
Tim
@Gigili crank: An eccentric person, esp. one obsessed by a particular subject or theory.
We just mentioned you, Gigili
'ello!
'Ello, Tim.
@Tim I noticed!
Tim
Tim
How is his luck with you?
15:11
Whose luck exactly?
Tim
Tim
Porton's
Oh, I was at the end of the process of forgetting him and you ruined it ...
Tim
Tim
Sorry to hear that. Please accept my sincere apology.
@JM @MarkDominus there's this place apparently where we can send them all to
@Gigili sorry about being so abrupt yesterday. i had to run to a seminar.
I figured there are other Portons in the world who don't have the mongoloid race condition.
@Eugene No problem at all.
15:15
@Gigili thanks for fixing the question as well.
I also figured that ASAP is not an abbreviation for *as soon as possible, at least not only.
Someone referred to a post as ASAP.
@Eugene Any time.
There's a Church of St. ASAP just outside of Philadelphia.
As soon as Philadelphia?
Tim
Tim
nice one
@JM also with regards to topologists being twisted
15:20
Suppose $x$ is the smallest eigenvalue of a matrix $M$. Can we say that $x$ is $M$'s logenvalue?
*rimshot*
It was discovered in 1914 by Edward Logen of Harvard University.
@Gigili lol, what's with the avatar?
15:31
Hi!
Hi!
:D
Could someone help me with integrals? :o
I guess you have a question @unNaturhal
Huh, there.
@Gigili Ahaha
I'm fully of questions xD
Yes, that's pretty obvious.
15:33
And tomorrow I have an exam.. so I let you immagine.. :|
Ask your question.
I have this integral:
$$\int{\frac{e^x}{e^2x+2e^x-3}\,dx}$$
How I can proceed to solve it?
let $u = e^{x}$ then solve by partial fraction.
Ops, wait...
There is an error...
$$\int{\frac{e^x}{e^{2x} + 2e^x - 3}\,dx}$$
Wha_?
15:39
Yes, you should do Eugene's suggestion.
good afternoon
Hi Ilya!
Ok, now it is correct
Hi!
I guess Eugene corrected your error in his mind.
Hi, Ilya.
@Gigili Amazing xD
15:40
Yes, he's awesome like that.
He looked away, blushing.
@Gigili why thank you
@Gigili and you are right. i wasn't sure how to reply.
$\Uparrow$
Eugene
Pft, I imagined him much better than that.
Guys, I'm browsing the [integral] tag.
Jordan has 25 questions already on the first page (out of 50)
It's a nice one @unNaturhal.
15:45
I think there should be a time/question limit.
I a threshold.
There's no limit.
It is both nocive for him and for the site.
@Eugene Partial fraction means that I have to split the fraction in two differen, where in the first there is the derivatives of the denominator and in the second all the rest, right?
I don't get it, if you find something annoying why don't you just ignore it?
Do we have Indian guys here?
15:46
@Gigili I'm not annoyed. I'm saying he asked too many questions in too little time, leaving less space for other people. I find that unfair,
3
@PeterTamaroff Less space? There's enough space for everyone.
@Gigili When you browse the integral tag $50$% of the first questions are his. I don't think that's fair.
People don't usually browse through all the pages but through the first few.
@Rajesh is IIT, Bombay good?
what happened?
@Ilya Hi
15:50
@Rajesh: hi
Are you allowed to post questions on here
@Rajesh - so is this university good?
IIT's in india are known to highly funded educational institutes in India.
and IIT bombay is pretty old, But Not everything from it can be considered as gold!
systems and control department
I do not have first hand information about that department.
sorry
Let me know why you are looking for, may be then i could say something useful
Chi
Chi
15:55
@unNaturhal I think it is faster to write it like this: $$\frac{1}{4}(\frac{1}{u-1}-\frac{1}{u+3})$$
@RajeshD I just know one guy from ETH Zurich moved there and became a professor. He is Indian - but I just wonder if the place he moved (which is IIT) is really good. I wonder because ETH Zurich and the group he was working in is good
@user346443 Post them on main.
@user346443 Yes.
HELLO :D
@user346443 Do you mean here on the chat or here on math.SE?
Chi
Chi
15:58
@Ilya I heard that IIT is good
@Chi From where it cames out?
@unNaturhal You have $$\frac{u}{(u-1)(u+3)}$$
Then partial fraction.
Chi
Chi
@Gigili but do you need $$du=e^{x}dx$$ though?
Indeed.
Holy cow, I have too little titles to stay in Australia for more than three months! 8-). So I need to go to NZ for a couple of weeks...
Chi
Chi
16:06
@Gigili then the u in the nominator goes to 1..so it will become really easy log stuff..right? just making sure...
@JonasTeuwen titles?
@Ilya Yeah, doctor or so.
@Gigili Oh, you're right.. Maybe I'm masochist, but I prefeer to do with Partial Fraction, so to remember how to apply it :)
@Jonas: so you go to Australia for 3 months? But when?
@Ilya No, 7.
16:07
7? oh, hell!
@Jonas: but when?
Chi
Chi
@unNaturhal $$\frac{u}{(u-1)(u+3)}$$ <-- I don't think this is the correct form after substitution.
@Chi That's the case, I think.
@Ilya Semester 1 2013.
phew
not so soon
To be more precise, $$\int \frac{u}{(u-1)(u+3)} \frac{du}{u}$$
Chi
Chi
16:09
@Gigili ok because when I studied calculus, I often did them wrong
@Chi ...?
$$\int \frac{1}{(u-1)(u+3)} du$$
Chi
Chi
@Gigili :D oh yeah I've been misunderstanding you
Hi Ilya and Jonas!
@JM: hi, how are you?
16:11
I'm alright here. :) You?
@JM Hi!
@JM fine, but tired. There was a guy from Oxford - we are writing a paper together. We had worked for two days, just finished.
@Chi @Gigili: $\frac{1}{2}\int{\frac{2u+2}{u^2+2u-3}}\,du + \int{\frac{-2}{u^2+2u-3}\,du}$ It's correct?
nice i got suspended.
@Eugene: for what?
16:15
Oh, for I kill you?
yep
@Ilya : I do not know anything specific to that particular department, but I have seen some Indians from top universities joining IIT's and IISc's may be because they wanted to be in India and these are the best possible places in India. But one thing I am sure about is that none of these IIT's are comparable to world class universities (not in terms of quality of students) in terms of serious research funding.
I was about to tell you that the same thing happened to me once.
@Gigili thanks for covering for me
Chi
Chi
@unNaturhal nope, scroll up a little bit and look at the last equation posted by @Gigili
16:15
@Eugene When did you get suspended?
@Eugene But I saw you deleted it, so it wasn't you?
@Gigili you were suspended?
@Chi :/
@Ilya I once said I kill you the downvoter, why you downvote every question I ask or something like that in a chat room and got suspended.
Weird people.
@Gigili weird. you should have better post a message to the guy who was going to suspend you. To scare him
16:17
@PeterTamaroff i got suspended for 30 minutes 30 minutes ago
@Gigili nope. wasn't me.
Chi
Chi
@unNaturhal $$\int \frac{1}{(u-1)(u+3)} du$$ because the u on top vanished because $$du=e^{x}dx$$
@Eugene Oh, OK. What did you do?
@PeterTamaroff refer to gigili's messages.
I got suspended for dividing by zero.
@Ilya And I was alone in that chat room, then I came to the conclusion that the downvoter and I were the same person.
16:19
@MarkDominus that you deserved then. that's an obscene thing to do in the math chat room
@Gigili i think it's automatic
@Eugene It is not.
@Gigili Heh.
@Gigili that usually happens to you
@Chi Oh... right! And now?
16:21
@anon i will
@Gigili that's unfortunate then. i wonder who mistook that as an actual threat.
oh well beats me. i have to go teach calculus now.
bye all!
later
Bye, Eugene.
The feeling of just having completed an exam is the greatest feeling
I'm off too.
Chi
Chi
@unNaturhal it is equivalent to $$\int \frac{1}{4}(\frac{1}{u-1}-\frac{1}{u+3})du$$ and just use basic log
16:36
Hi @anon
hey
@Chi Please, could you remember me the formula to apply $\log|x|$?
Chi
Chi
@unNaturhal what do you do when you calculate $$\int \frac{1}{x}dx$$?
@unNaturhal You remember the derivative of $\log\,x$, right?
@Chi It becomes $\log|x|+c$
@JM Yes, it's $\frac{1}{x}$
16:53
room topic changed to Mathematics: General discussion for math.stackexchange.com (no tags)
Chi
Chi
@unNaturhal now can you just do exactly the same thing to each of the two parts in the parenthesis?
@Chi Mmmh... It is a product, so i have to split it, right?
@unNaturhal It's already split up. Just factor out the constant first, and distribute the integral across your rational functions...
@JM Wait.. you're talking about the last form posted by @chi?
Chi
Chi
@unNaturhal I think so
16:58
@unNaturhal Certainly.
Ah... I'm working with factored form $$\int{\frac{1}{(u+3)(u-1)}}\,du$$
It's an error?
@unNaturhal No, but you need to perform partial fraction decomposition to get the form Chi has.
In any event: you understand for instance why $\int c\,f(x)\mathrm dx=c\int f(x)\mathrm dx$ and $\int(f(x)+g(x))\mathrm dx=\int f(x)\mathrm dx+\int g(x)\mathrm dx$, right?
@JM Yeah, of course :)
Chi
Chi
@unNaturhal haha when you do this kind of thing long enough, you can just read it off from the product form. but for now I think the partial fraction decomposition is a good practice for you..
@Chi I think so, but I haven't understood in which way you obtained that :(
17:02
@Chi You'll have to take it slow for unNaturhal; being a novice at this...
Unfortunately I have to be away; see you guys later.
Chi
Chi
@JM ur right :P don't worry about what I just said @unNaturhal do the partial fraction decomposition :P
@JM Yeah, I'm a donk...
Chi
Chi
@JM see you
@JM See ya!
Hi @unNaturhal : i'll be glad if i could be of some help
Chi
Chi
17:04
@unNaturhal come on! no one is an expert at the first day :P
@Chi I'm not at the first day... I studied all the thing I asked in this class some years ago, when I was at high school.. But now that I'm at the college, I became a donk.. It's a fact
Hi @RajeshD! Nice to see you again :)
my connection is a bit erratic, so i'll be popping up now and then :-)
Chi
Chi
@unNaturhal everybody is forgetful then :D if you don't use them really often. So yeah, if you want, you can pick up'em all
@Chi I hope.. I'm studing for about three months, but how you can see, I have ploblems whit this simple exercise yet
Chi
Chi
@unNaturhal walk through it, don't ask unless you've sleep on it for days. and you will then learn tricks. I mean integration is mostly about how you are familiar with certain patterns etc. So probably more exercises will help you. Which textbook are you using btw?
17:14
@Chi It's in italian.. Analisi Matematica I - Marcellini, Sbordone
Chi
Chi
ok I know nothing about it since I don't speak Italian :P sry
@Chi Don't worry :)
@anon: I finally showed the forms equivalent by using $\psi(a)=\log(2)+\frac12\psi\left(\frac{a}{2}\right) + \frac12\psi\left(\frac{a+1}{2}\right)$.
that would do it
@anon I included a proof of that identity, since I imagine it is not terribly well-known
17:20
hi @robjohn
@RajeshD hey there, what's up?
Chi
Chi
@unNaturhal huh, wait a second, are you also a computer science student?
@robjohn : today was great, got a fresh perspective on an idea just a while ago, made my day. How is it with you?
@Chi Computer Science Engineering (it's the right name? However, yes, also a computer science stundent :) )
Chi
Chi
@unNaturhal nice. same here.
17:26
@Chi You? Really? Nice! :) You are at the college?
Chi
Chi
@unNaturhal Yup. I just finished my second year.
@Chi You got all the exams?
Chi
Chi
@unNaturhal if by exams you mean finals of the semester then yes. Because my college is in the US..
@Chi I don't know how works in the US, but I mean the exams that will write on your curriculum. Not the partial, but the final one :p
off to vote (today is primary election day), then to lunch, and then to my uncle's house to view the transit of Venus.
17:33
@robjohn So I'll be in town from the 18th to the 23rd. Let me know if you want to grab coffee and talk about e-points.
Chi
Chi
@unNaturhal lol, I don't know how it works in Italy either :P so, my second year of college life is over. I will start the third year in September. is that what you were asking?
@DylanMoreland That'd be cool! Where will you be staying?
@robjohn Oh ...it is there in India too, early morning at 4:30 AM, now its 11:10 PM.
It's called Hilgard House, I think.
@DylanMoreland at UCLA?
17:35
In Westwood, I think. Don't bother if it's out of your way.
I went to UCLA undergrad, and work for UCLA now, so I know the area well.
I was somehow rewarded for missing the funding deadline. They usually put us up in the Claremont, which is not so nice.
We'll definitely have to get together while you're here.
I remember it being 20 minute walk north to the math department.
Approximately :P
For example, I'm attending at the first year! During this yeah I followed 7 courses, that at the end have an exam. If you pass it, the vote will write on your curriculum, and make averange with all other. But if you don't pass some of them, you can do in the second year.. It's a strange way of do things I know :p
17:38
Always good to put faces to names, yeah.
@anon Any luck with this group action thing?
@RajeshD we'll be watching together. Do you get to see the start or is it going when the sun rises?
@RajeshD judging from the time difference, it will start before the sun rises there.
Good day everybody! :)
@RajeshD We don't get to see it end and you don't get to see the beginning
17:55
I have a little problem in understanding notation...
@Chi However, it's time for me to go. Tomorrow I have this exam, and I think that is useless to try to learn things now, it' late. I hope to see you again in the future :) Thank you very much for the help.
If $y \in C([a,b],\mathbb{R}^n)$, $\Phi \in C^{*}([a,b],\mathbb{R}^n)$ what does mean $\int\limits_{a}^{b} f(d\Phi(t)) y(t)$ ?
@DylanMoreland nah
This is probably awesome:

Teorema:

El número $5!/2$ es par.

Sencillo, ¿verdad?, tanto su planteamiento como su demostración. ¿Se os ocurre alguna manera de demostrarlo que pueda entrar dentro de matar moscas a cañonazos? Pensad…aunque seguro que no encontráis una como la siguiente:

Demostración:

Sabemos que el grupo de las permutaciones de los primeros n enteros positivos,$S_n$ , tiene $n!$ elementos, y que $A_n$ , el subgrupo formado por las permutaciones pares también llamado grupo alternado, tiene la mitad de las permutaciones de $S_n$ , por lo que el orden de $A_n$ es $5!/2$ . Por
I'll translate it.
A5 is the alternating group, 5!/2 elements, not abelian with no normal subgroup, not solvable, ...
18:07
hey guys, any ideas why I haven't got any answer or even any single comment here math.stackexchange.com/questions/152556/… ?
@anon Right.
@Clash My guess: relatively few people are able to say anything intelligent about it, and those few did not see the post.
Try editing it a bit; that will bump it to the front page, and it will get another shot.
That works too.
@anon I cut some parts Theorem:

The number $5!/2$ is even.

Simple, right? Can you find a way to prove it by "killing flyes with cannonballs? Think... though you'll surely never find out one as the following:

Proof:

We know the group of the permutaions of the first $n$ positive integers $S_n$, has $n!$ elements, and that $A_n$, the subgroup composed by the even permutations, also known as the alternated group, has half the permutatoins of $S_n$, thus the order of $A_n$ is $n!/2$. Thus, for $n=5$, we have that the order of $A_5$ is $5!/2$.
thanks for the hints mark! i thought it shouldn't be complicated, did I make it sound complicated? i'm just a dumb student
Well, I haven't got a clue about it.
But that's not a very strong statement. :)
18:15
don't you guys learn this thing with condition numbers on numerical methods? This is a class on introductory "numerical mathematics" (I don't know if this is the correct translation)
also, thanks for the help and upvote mark, you're a very nice person!
@Clash Iam not really interested in numerical methods.
Maybe I should be.
peter I find it extremely cool that you're already so good with math and so young! I typically only see this with programmers
@Clash Hm?
I also tried understanding your text in spanish (I'm from brazil) but I guess my guessing skills are not so good. I found the part with the cannons extremely confusing lol
@Clash Oh, I don't understand that!
I was sharing it with anon, that does.
18:20
Yeah, I mean, you're 18 right?
And look at how many answers you have at very complex math (at least for me)
@Clash I'll be 19 in a month.
it doesn't matter, you're too good man. are you already at college?
@Clash Well, I dedicate a lot ot math. And when I say a lot I really mean most of my time.
@Clash I'm in college yes, first year. In the UBA.
exactly, that's what I mean. When I see people that are dedicated to something while young, the area is typically programming or something related. In my opinion it's way harder to find young people that are so passionate with math as you
@Clash Oh, well that might be true. I have told many people that I want to major in maths (and get a doctorate too) and they usually say "Dude, do you like numbers that much?"
They don't get it.
18:23
it's the best when you get to study what you love!
@Clash Sure!
@Clash What do you do?
Do you have russian parents or something? Peter neither Tamaroff sound very argentinian
I'm a brazilian computer science student living in germany :) I don't get math sometimes, which worries me
Suppose L and T are dense linear orders, and L is dense in T. Can anyone confirm that if T is separable, L must be separable too (in the order topology)?
My problem is, I can parse in my mind how to solve a family of problems when I see their solutions, but I have a real hard time figuring out why it works or understanding the proof... and the germans put great emphasis on understanding WHY it works instead of HOW it works...
@Clash Sure, I have both Russian and German ascendence.
@Clash It'd be cool to live in Europe!
18:28
My argument is: Let Q be a countable dense set in T. Let Q' consist of points in L between every pair of elements in Q: still countable, and possible by the density of L in T. If a,b are in L, then there is some point q in Q between them. Moreover, there is some point r in Q between a and q. Then there is a point l in L between r and q, and l is between a and b. Does that work?
meh... my only problem with europe is that the people here are a lot more, how can I say... closed? we brazilians (and I suppose the Argentinians also) are very open and love to touch people (you know, just the everyday "hi, how are you" and at least a shake of hands or a hug) and here it's quite the opposite...
it's just "hi", no touching or asking how are you
@Clash Yes, that's true.
anyways, I think I'm disturbing the chat and I didn't mean to bitch about living in europe... I just wanted to say it's great that you already found what you love! many spend their whole life searching for that and can't find it. have fun :)
Or perhaps when Peter is 28 he will realize that he is all mathed out and he doesn't want to do it any more. It's hard to know ahead of time.
I knew a guy who went to dental school, apprenticed to a dentist, and the dentist was going to give him the dental practice, and then one day he woke up and realized he couldn't stand one more day of looking into people's mouths.
Sorry to be a downer.
Chi
Chi
@unNaturhal ooops, I wandered out of my office to have my dinner...good luck!
18:39
before he studied mark, did he already know he wanted to be a dentist? I don't know if it's comparable because it's hard to have any experience in that area before studying it... while with math and programming you can taste it anytime you want
He thought he wanted to be a dentist. He graduated dental school and was in dental practice for years before he got sick of it.
@tb No, I just wrote down the sequence and checked. $Hom(M,-)$ is also right exact if and only if $M$ is projective. And then the extension groups are all 0. But perhaps your last comment referred to the typo in the second half of my message before my edit.
Chi
Chi
Is this...category theory?
I believe so, yes.
@MarkDominus I don't think being a dentist is comparable to doing math. But I enjoy the realism.
18:51
Hello
hi hi
Hello @ZhenLin
How did you find the exam?
tiresome
there was a lot to do wasnt there
The questions were much lengthier than I expected
18:54
question 3 was basically most of that lie group chapter
that was one of my shorter solutions, actually
haah
what questions did you do
1,2,3,4
nice I did 1,2,3,5
although not very well I have to say
did you do well ?
I never really know what to write for differential geometry
18:56
@PeterTamaroff The world is full of people who decided partway through graduate school that they would rather pull their own teeth out than do what they were doing for another minute. Sometimes it was graduate school they hated, sometimes it was all of academia, and for some of them it was just that they got tired of their particular field of study.
sometimes the question is of the nature where you can just define the problem away
I basically gave all the bookwork bits from those questions but I had trouble showing the determinant lifted to the trace
that's actually quite easy
how do you do it
I thought we would need to know the explicit formula for the matrix exponential, but it turns out to be irrelevant
the only thing to do is to calculate $D_I (\det)$
and for that, as usual, there's a trick...
(it was a second-year exercise here)
18:59
yeah I knew there was some form of trick

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