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00:09
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Q: Sup. and Lim. Sup. are Measurable Functions

user193319 For a sequence $\{f_n\}$ of measurable functions with common domain $E$, show that the following functions are measurable: $\inf \{f_n\}$, $\sup \{f_n\}$, $\lim \inf \{f_n\}$, and $\lim \sup \{f_n\}$ Here is my proof: It suffices to show that $\sup \{f_n\}$ and $\lim \sup \{f_n\}$ are ...

00:22
@BalarkaSen thanks for the upvote. I'll be asking a prof in the dept. tomorrow, and hopefully I'll be able to answer it myself afterwards.
Sup peeps
oh yeah you might ask @Eric
Banging my head against the wall for homework. Sup Eric
he likes to compute horrid stuff
Ask me what
00:37
Problem: Let $I$ be an interval and $f: I \to \Bbb{R}$ be increasing. Show that $f$ is measurable by first showing that, for each natural number $n$, the strictly increasing function $x \mapsto f(x) + x/n$ is measurable. Here is proposition 4 in my book: A monotone function that is defined on an interval is measurable.
In light of proposition 4, what is the point of constructing the sequence $\{f(x) + x/n\}$ of strictly increasing functions, or am I misunderstanding something?
[Random]
Unit cell of amorphous solid countable or uncountable :?
Yo @Eric
Lel @Balarka re horrid stuff
Squarepusher is beautiful.
I can't get enough of this
@EricSilva Here
01:09
@BalarkaSen I have an idea that I think is wrong and I was wondering if you can see wy its wrong. Consider any smooth map $f:T^2 \to S^3$. My idea is that $f$ is always homotopic to a constant map. The idea is since $T^2 = S^1 \times S^1$ consider $f \lvert_{\{p\} \times S^1}$, this should be a map $S^1 \to S^3$ and since $S^3$ is simply connected, this is homotopic to the constant map. In a path-connected space, all constant maps are homotopic.
So then, enforce that for all $p \in S^1$, $f\lvert_{\{p\} \times S^1}$ is homotopic to $q \in S^3$, then $f$ is itself homotopic to a constant map.
I think this has to be wrong, but I'm not sure why
Maybe the problem here is that the homotopy for each $p$ is different. And you have to stitch them together in a smooth way.
@KevinDriscoll Your idea is quite correct indeed.
I'm too overloaded with pde work rn to do any other math
Yikes
get PDE'd
when i close my eyes all i can see are upper semicontinuous functions dancing around in my eyelids
Yes, long term use of analysis makes permanent damage to your brain
5
Kids: Don't do drugs
Don't be like this man here
01:18
be logical
do logic
He can't sleep and have good dreams because of his regular use of PDEs
or drugs probably
construct a model of exponential field so that exp(ε) = 1 + ε + ε⋅ε/2
@BalarkaSen why is so? Thinking too much about math leads to poor sleeping or what?
No but thinking too much about PDE does
01:20
dont think too hard abt the joke my man
@BalarkaSen Really?? We don't need any further restriction on $f$? I was thinking its probably right if $f$ is injective. But I was worried that if $f(x) = f(y)$ then there could be 2 different homotopies applied to $\{x\} \times S^1$ and $\{y\} \times S^1$ and so when you try and put all the $S^1$ homotopies together to get one for $T^2$, you don't know how to move the point $f(x) = f(y)$. There are, in some sense, 2 ways you want to move it.
@KevinDriscoll Oh I meant your idea was correct, but the proof idea probably needs more work
$f$ is nullhomotopic
There are fucked up maps from the torus to S^3. Things which are everywhere surjective
And those guys are still nullhomotopic?
Ayup!
Here's an easy case in one dimension less. Try to prove any C^0 map from S^1 to S^2 is nullhomotopic.
@BalarkaSen what would happen if $x>0$ and $\exp x = 1 + x + \dfrac {x^2} 2$? Can we get a contradiction somehow by considering points in the middle of $0$ and $x$?
01:25
idk man im too brain dead to think about clever stuff
anyone?
i'll think about it for about 1 minute if you tell me what you mean by exp
we know these 4 basic facts:
1. $\exp 0 = 1$
2. $\exp (x+y) = \exp x \cdot \exp y$
3. $x < y \implies \exp x < \exp y$
4. $\exp x \le 1 + x \implies x = 0$
oh and in natural language, exp is just $x \mapsto e^x$
@BalarkaSen I remembering doing that one, we had to prove already that $S^n, n > 1$ is simply connected. If I recall right, I argued that any such map is homotopic to one transverse to the north pole. The only way to be transverse to the north poll in this case is to not intersect it. Then the image of the map lies in a single chart, so you can go to $R^n$, homotope htere because its contractible, then map back to the sphere
Hahaha I misspelled pole as poll and Im not fixing it
@KevinDriscoll You're assuming smoothness! In that case it's a lot easier
01:30
I've been reading too many political articles.....
But you can pull the same argument for a smooth map T^2 --> S^3
@BalarkaSen We have approximation theorems though. So you should be able to apprixmate any $C^0$ guy by smooth maps, and I'm not sure but I guess thats good enough
Pick a regular value. It doesn't hit that regular value. Stereoproject to get a map T^2 --> R^3
@KevinDriscoll "guy"
Nullhomotope by straightline homotopy
01:32
have you been infected by Balarka with that language
No, I've been infected by patriarchy. My topological maps are gendered.
@KevinDriscoll Fair enough, OK :)
In general it is true that any C^0 map M --> N if dim N > dim M is nullhomotopic.
Sorry, a regular value of what? I get what you mean, but every value is critical for this map
Oh, so you're just calling $S^3 - f(T^2)$ the regular values?
I mean homotope it to be transverse to a point, like you said. Regular value to me means points to which it's transverse to.
Yes, GP's convention is to assume points outside image to be regular
Ah ok, sorry for the confusion. We used Lee for the regval stuff, so I havent read that part of G&P
01:37
In any case, you can do subtler arguments. If f : M --> N is C^1, locally that's Lipschitz
Lipschitz preserves measure zeroness
f(M) is locally measure zero in N
get rekd
Haha, I think we've already gone beyond the level of analysis that I really know. I dont remember what the definition of Lischitz is
Don't worry about it. What you gave is a fine argument and works quite nicely
@BalarkaSen do you assume compactness or something? Otherwise consider the inclusion $S^1\to \Bbb C^\times$
@LeakyNun You're bounded below by $(1+x/n)^n$. This has terms that are always positive, and the first three terms are $1+x+\frac{1-1/n}{2}x^2$. Thus $1 + x + \frac{1-1/n}{2}x^2 \leq e^x$ for all $n$.
@MatheinBoulomenos I'm sleepy. By N I really mean S^n. Sorry
01:41
@MikeMiller that's the usual approach. I can't do anything from there
You should be able to play out the binomial theorem to calculate the power series of $e^x$, if you really wanted to. The essential point is Stirling's asymptotic.
What do you mean you can't do anything from there?
it's 7 am bro with the trash math flow
@MikeMiller I did say it's a logic question
5 hours of speaking garbage never done before
oops, I didn't say it
sorry :P
01:41
So you have a bunch of unstated assumptions. Cool.
Problem: Let $I$ be an interval and $f: I \to \Bbb{R}$ be increasing. Show that $f$ is measurable by first showing that, for each natural number $n$, the strictly increasing function $x \mapsto f(x) + x/n$ is measurable. Here is proposition 4 in my book: A monotone function that is defined on an interval is measurable.
In light of proposition 4, what is the point of constructing the sequence $\{f(x) + x/n\}$ of strictly increasing functions, or am I misunderstanding something?
oh, rather than having them, I have a lack of them @MikeMiller
in particular, you cannot assume the Archimedean Property (because it is both unstatable and false in any first-order axiomatization of the reals)
@user193319 maybe your book only proves proposition 4 for strictly increasing functions? that's the only thing I can think of
@MatheinBoulomenos ex machina
01:44
@MatheinBoulomenos That's possible. Let me take a closer look.
02:23
Is it true that $(A \Rightarrow B) \Rightarrow P(A) \leq P(B)$ ?
@user76284 what is P?
The probability of an event.
an event is formally a set
we use $A \subseteq B$ instead of $A \implies B$
and the answer is yes
Yeah, makes sense.
$x \in A \Rightarrow x \in B$.
and the connection is that $A \subseteq B$ iff $\forall x(x \in A \implies x \in B)$
right
02:27
Just making sure I wasn't making a dumb mistake :)
that follows from the first and the third axioms of probability
@LeakyNun What does your username mean?
@Caddyshack it is an anagram of my real name
@LeakyNun That's funny. I wish mine admitted an interesting anagram.
02:34
That's a nice website.
'Eleven plus one' is apparently an anagram of 'twelve plus one'. xD
Eleven plus two, I meant.
eleven plus two that's twelve plus one quick maffs
3
everyday maffs on the bloq
Haha, I'm done!
02:57
Everyday maffs on the bloq is what an English guy who's trying to convince Quebec Separatists that it'll never work does.
03:35
Why are unruled wirebound notebooks so hard to find? It's like mankind has forgotten how to use a pen, and everyone needs handholding by means of lines on paper!
I don't feel strongly about anything, not even on what I'm informed are more pressing social issues, but this one gets on my nerves.
Is Hom(pi_1 (X,x), mathbb(Z)) an abelian group? Can someone give a hint or explain why?
(where X is a CW-complex)
(connected, if it helps)
:) Thanks
err
Why removed?
okay yes, if G is a group and A an abelian group, hom(G,A) is an abelian group under pointwise addition
forgot to check before I said so
morning
03:56
And how is [X,S^1]_{\star} is an abelian group?
pointwise multiplication of representatives
By seeing S^1 as the subgroup of complex numbers?
04:16
My grandmother is going to die.
04:35
@ALannister I am sorry to hear that
How are you?
Horrible.
I need to hang in there for a few more days - finish my homework. but i'm oon her end of life directive, and i have to make a ddeciion to withhold food and hydration
That sounds really difficult
Yup. We are really close, and I can't imagine my family without her
Even though I have never met you, I send good wishes
:(
 
2 hours later…
06:53
[Random]
Consider default theory of ZF
Let S be an uncountable set with a non aleph cardinality and A be a countable subset. Then S-A is infinite dedekind finite
Note that S-C where C is finite will not make it infinite dedekind finite, but its cardinality is strictly smaller than S
Likewise, S-B where B is a countable subset of A will also not make it infinite dedekind finite, despite cardinality will still be reduced
For S-D where D is a cofinite subset of A, it is infinite dedekind finite because S-D contains only infinite dedekind finite sets and finite sets
And therefore, cardinal arithmetic becomes a lot more sensitive to the structure of the set
(Actually, I should have said: Let A be the maximal countable subset of S)
Since some dedekind cardinalities themselves can be linearly ordered if they originated from considering a chain of dedekind finite subsets, and aleph cardinalities are always well ordered by definition of Hartogs number, it follows there might be sets with mixed cardinalities such that as elements are being added or taken away, the dedekind and aleph cardinalities should respond to that independently
This will be explored in more detail using some generic $\aleph_1$-dedekind finite set
Consider the following $\aleph_1$-dedekind finite set with the following structure:
$S = A \sqcup B$
where $A$ is maximally countable, and $B$ is is infinite dedekind finite
Let $C = A \cap B$. It follows that the intersection is finite. Suppose otherwise, then $B$ will contain a countable subset thus contradict dedekind finiteness
In particular the intersection $C$ can be any arbitrary large finite number, thus we can have a family of $C$ with cardinality ranging over all possible natural numbers
07:59
Actually, I have a better idea
Open new chat room
08:09
Given the current frequency I (basically to the eyes of most) spam chatrooms across SE (because the number of weird users are falling, and the number of users who are not interested in my rambles are increasing much rapidly than I expected, result in all these spontaneous discussion type messages to basically becomes spam) there should not be a problem to keep that room alive for every week
Mathworks had failed me (or succeeded?) due to the unexpected spike in users, converting it from a room that is purely used for my math rambles, into a more formal room for themed mathematical research ideas (which is why a lot of cleanup occured in there recently)
And therefore, this new room I am going to create, should live its intended purpose
O btw, given the fact that the number of ordinal users are increasing, it means there will be less people will spontaneously engage with my thoughts and ideas. But that is not a problem, because the SE server 'funded' this and it knows how this is to be solved
(note the quotes, so don't take that literally)
(and, STOP typing ordinary as ordinals!)
 
2 hours later…
09:54
[Intuition] : Is there any reason that the curves look like the way they do? Take for instance an ellipse, why is it a closed curve and looks like an oval?
hey any1 here?
We name it an ellipse because of the shape of the curve. As for why it is closed, it is because in parametric form, there are two parameter values that give the same (x,y) value
so a topological embedding is taking a topological space putting it in a bigger one and it has the property to have the subspace topology on the other hand an immersion is just putting the object into a space but cant have the subspace topology right?
Now my question is. I can see why embed objects within a bigger space so it gets its topology and do stuff
but why immerse objects into a space?
what are the benefits of it?
10:25
If you work with smooth manifolds immersions are locally embeddings, but not necessarily so globally
10:42
how important is doing an undergraduate thesis
im in applied math and i next semester i can complete my degree with emphasis on pure math. Since ive taken courses pure theoritic.BUt i need one more .which is logic. but if i take logic plus my regual program courses .Ill have 6 courses on total
r9m
r9m
10:58
I was going through the proof of Malgrange-Ehrenprein theorem in chapter 8 of Rudin Functional analysis .. the author writes '$\sigma_n$ Haar measure on $T^n$ that is lebesgue measure divided by $(2\pi)^n$' .. if I am not mistaken $d\sigma_n = \frac{1}{(2\pi i)^n}\frac{dz_1 \cdots dz_n}{z_1 \cdots z_n}$ .. but why is the author calling it lebesgue measure?
11:22
is euclidean geometry important if u like geometry as in topology -algebraic geometry-differential geometry?
i dont like euclidean at all should i ?
11:34
@KonformistLiberal In fact, this group is isomorphic to $H^1(X; \Bbb Z)$, because any map $\pi_1(X) \to \Bbb Z$ factors through the abelianization $H_1(X)$, so your thing is just $\hom(H_1(X), \Bbb Z)$
(More generally, $[X, K(G, n)]$ is a group where $K(G, n)$ is the Eilenberg-MacLane space with $\pi_n = G$. The idea is to realize $K(G, n)$ is a homotopy-associative, homotopy-identity admitting H-space.)
But of course that's easier to see with $G = \Bbb Z$, $n = 1$ because $S^1$ is even a group
12:03
@BalarkaSen The question I linked previously now has an answer. It turns out the solution is "obvious." There is a well-known fact that tensor fields are independent of extension (cf. Lee). Simply show that "d" as defined is a tensor field, then we're in business.
@ManolisLyviakis I think that having a thorough understanding of Euclidean/classical geometries will give you a greater appreciation of the latter subjects. On the other hand, in most cases, you don't need to know Euclidean geometry fluently, for the most part.
@Antonios-AlexandrosRobotis Cool. I never actually think about these subtleties.
Good to know you have an answer now
@BalarkaSen me neither... sometimes that scares me :-)
12:36
@Antonios-AlexandrosRobotis i just find euclidean geometry rather dull and raw in the sense it seems more like an iq test than the other geometries when u can bend the rulles sort of speak
and feel more creative
Are you in a course concerning Euclidean geometry?
nop
its that im really interested in topology maybe in a more algebraic way
also from the standard course of Ring theory
when we got to nulzestatz theorem got me interested in geometry in that way
i loved these ways but not euclidean :P
(btw kseris pou mporo na vro liseis mazemenes tou μανκρες τοπολογια ?)
@LeakyNun here? :D
@ManolisLyviakis oxi de ksero :/ Alla ama einai steile mou email: [email protected].
But, yeah. The nullstellensatz is a great theorem. I think that Euclidean geometry seems best absorbed through solving problems as puzzles. It can be a nice way to spend an hour here or there.
12:52
send you one!! So u have mine too
found some spare solved excerices here and there think they will do for now
Can someone explain me why $z^n-1$ can be divided by $(z-x)$ when x is the n-th root on unity? I tried it by hand but i always get a remainder.
if x is a root
x^n=1
@JDizzle One easy way to see this is that by definition an nth root of unity $\zeta_n^k$ must satisfy the equation $z^n-1=0$.
oh, I missed the ^2, i try to divide by $(z-n)^2$
I have to show that in the linear factors of $(z^n-1)=(z-a_1)...(z-a_i)$ there cant be two a with the same value
\text{Steps:} \\ \begin{align}1.& \text{Right click this.} \\ 2. & \text{“Show Math As"} \\ 3. & \text{Click on }\TeX \ Commands. \end{align}
13:00
In the comments of my question math.stackexchange.com/questions/2538844/… someone told me, there CAN be different a's with the same value and $z^n-1$ can indeed be divided by $(z-x)^2$. I'm am cofused because it's the opposite of my task.
That's not what they say, they say that IF it can be divided by $(z-x)^2$ then $x$ is a root of derivative as well
@KasmirKhaan not for long
Calculate the derivative, see that $x$ is not a root of it and conclude that $(z-x)^2$ does not divide your polynomial
@LeakyNun okay :D
@JDizzle let $z^n - 1 = (z-x) Q(z) + R$ by division algorithm
13:02
ehm my question is about
if we have an ideal like this
substitute $z=x$ to both sides @JDizzle
(x^2+x)
how to make sense of what elements are they ?
@KasmirKhaan $\{(x^2+x)f(x) \mid f \in R[X]\}$
so hmm
if say i have the polynomial
5x^4 +3x+2
not inside because of the constant
13:04
and i want to test wherether that is in my ideal generated by that
note $(x^2+x)f(x) = x(x+1)f(x)$
hmm
so we can never get a constant polynomial with that ideal ?
$g(x) \in \langle x^2+x \rangle \iff g(0) = g(-1) = 0$
@KasmirKhaan yes, because of factor theorem
so bascily the polys that can be hit
by my ideal
should be divisible by my ideal
So is it enough to show that $(z^n-1) : (z-x)^2$ cant be divided without remainder or do i have to do the substitution?
13:06
rest =0
@JDizzle you just need to differentiate
because $(z-x)^2 \mid f \iff f(x) = f'(x) = 0$
but $f'(x) = nx^{n-1}$ is clearly non-zero
@LeakyNun when you said because of factor theorem what did you mean?
1 min ago, by Kasmir Khaan
should be divisible by my ideal
by my generator*
oh yes >
@KasmirKhaan well, $x-\alpha \mid f(x) \iff f(\alpha)=0$, factor theorem
13:08
can you give me few polys and an ideal
and see if i get it iight or wrong?
1. $(x^2-5x+4) \in \langle (x-1)^2\rangle$?
2. $x^2 - 2 \in \langle x-\sqrt2 \rangle$?
there isn't really much about it
you haven't exactly stated the base ring either, so I assume $\sqrt2$ is there
the first one is no
because x^2-5x+4 cant be divided into x^2+2x+1
leaves a rest of 3x+3
@KasmirKhaan x^2-2x+1
yes was a typo
leaves rest of 3x+3
so the test is simple
we just divide out
and remember the coefficients in what field
or what ring
13:13
:D
thanks leaky =p
Now I ll just reapeat Group theory part for today and tomorrow
then exam =p
i hope i do better this time :D
How do I know that the derivative of $f'(x) = nx^{n-1}$ ?
@JDizzle by differentiating it?
what is the probability of 100 heads appearing in a row appearing infinitely often? is it 0?
I am trying to show that a strictly increasing function $f$ over an interval $I$ is measurable. I know that $f$ is an open map or, equivalently, since $f$ is invertible, $f^{-1}$ is continuous, but I can't see how to use this fact, if it can be used at all.
$f'(x) = \left. \dfrac {\mathrm d} {\mathrm dz} (z^n-1) \right|_{z=x} = \displaystyle \lim_{h \to 0} \frac {[(x+h)^n - 1] - [x^n - 1]} {h} = \lim_{h \to 0} \frac {nx^{n-1}h + o(h^2)} {h} = \lim_{h \to 0} [nx^{n-1} + o(h)] = nx^{n-1}$
@JDizzle :)
@vanaghka I think it's 1
13:20
MY problem is, we did not cover this in class.
Is this the only way to make sure, or is there an other?
you did not cover differentiation?
and you know about roots of unity?
what a strange class
Math1 for CS
Yeah im totally lost with this task
which grade?
first year university
which country?
13:21
Germany
here's how you do it without differentiation: $\dfrac{z^n-1}{z-x} = xz^{n-1} + x^2 z^{n-2} + x^3 z^{n-3} + \cdots + x^{n-1} z + 1$
There might be a chance my prof thinks we already know this. But in my school we heard nothing much about it.
now show that $z-x$ does not divide it by showing that $g(x) \ne 0$
where $g(z) = xz^{n-1} + x^2 z^{n-2} + x^3 z^{n-3} + \cdots + x^{n-1} z + 1$
actually, $g(x) = (n-1)x^n = n-1$
I already did $\dfrac{z^n-1}{z-x}$ but I'm missing the +1 at the end
@LeakyNun ah i originally thought it was 1 but a post on M.SE confused me :S how would I show it's 1?
13:27
but my first term is $z^{n-1}x^0$
that is wrong?
In my script it's $(z^n-1):(z-x)=\sum^{m-1}_{i=0} z^ix^{(n-1)-i}$ too
@vanaghka well what is it for 1 head in a row?
@JDizzle what is (z^4-1)/(z-i)?
nvm you are right
it doesn’t affect the argument though
Can anybody help me understanding some notation? It is related to algebra and I'm supposed to show that $\phi(g)(x)=gx$ is a group homomorphism, however I'm not sure what it means for a map to have "2 parentheses" like in the above example.
then the argument is i divide by (z-x) and then the result again. There will be a remainder so there can't be a double zero point? Is this valid?
I don't know how to get to $g(x) = (n-1)x^n = n-1$
13:43
@JDizzle yes
@JDizzle just substitute it, i might have made a mistake
@ChristianF.Madsen the map is $\phi(g):G\to G$ that sends $x\mapsto gx$, the $g$ is just an index here
@ChristianF.Madsen phi(g) is a function
@AlessandroCodenotti !&&@@!&$
You can write it as $\phi_g(x)$ if you want a clearer notation
Thank leaky that was a great help.
oh yeah thats a much better notation I think @AlessandroCodenotti! Thanks
Thank you @LeakyNun.
13:46
Hi all! I am a newbie and I am trying to learn calculus by myself, and I noticed that $\frac{d}{dx}x^2=2x$ and that $\frac{d}{dx}x^3=3x^2$. Is it true that $\frac{d}{dx}x^n=nx^{n-1}$ for any $n,x\in\mathbb{N}$?
They probably use $\phi(g)$ because they're thinking about $\phi$ as a function $G\to\text{Aut}(G)$ that sends $g\mapsto \phi(g)$ which is the map defined as above
[Random]
Aborel set
->Arboreal set
Nvm I found out that ^^^^^ is called "Power Rule"
Anyone who failed me (including myself) will be erased from existence
Now that room is MUCH cleaner
The full problem is: Let $G$ act on the set $X$ and define the map $\phi: G \rightarrow \text{Sym}(X)$ by $\phi(g)(x)=gx$. Show that $\phi$ is a homomorphism of groups. (where
Sym(X) is the group of all bijective maps from X to itself with multiplication given by composition of functions.)
If that makes more sense to you.
13:56
Actually no, I should not said that, because that will potentially wreck my future timeline
@Mr.Xcoder yes
@Mr.Xcoder You should try to find out for yourself whether it's also true for any $n \in \mathbb{Z}$
@ChristianF.Madsen elements of Sym(X) are functions
Hi chat
Got a question which I’m not sure how to categorize:
Suppose I’ve got a closed convex set in R^3 defined as $f(x)\geq 0$ where $f(x)$ is some polynomial in $x,y,z$.
I can project this set on to a plane through the origin and the image will be a convex set as well. From this I can infer some inequality the original convex set must satisfy.
(For instance, suppose my initial set is $x^2+y^2+z^2/4\leq $. Then the projection onto the xy-plane is the set $x^2+y^2\leq 1$, and every point in the original convex set indeed satisfies this bound.
14:16
Hi guys,
Could you have a look on my question:
0
Q: A question regarding the SVD

CardinalI just read this certifiable tutorial which is indeed informative: However, I couldn't go further after the following sentence: The values of x1 and x2 are chosen such that the elements of the S are the square roots of the eigenvalues. My question is how did they calculate $x_1$ and $x_2$?...

What I’m wondering is how many such two-variable inequalities one needs in order to define the original convex set. If $f(x)$ were some arbitrary smooth function I’d guess you would need infinitely many, but in the case of polynomial $f(x)$ it seems plausible that only finitely many are needed.
@Cardinal I see two things of note.
First off, if you’ve got two linear equations in two unknowns then the generic scenario is that there’s a unique solution (x1,x2)
hey if $R \subset S$ , then S^n is a R-module. Is it a R-free module, I think it isn't, but then does it have any special property compared to usal f.g modules?
@Semiclassical This is a very nice question! I don't have insights, unfortunately. Just to clarify: the closed convex set you are considering is $\{x \in \Bbb{R}^3 \mid f(x) \ge 0 \}$? I wonder if this ties in with sums of squares and algebraic geometry.
But they claim that the solution is not a pair (x1,x2) but the ratio x2/x1. For this to be the case, the two equations have to really be the same equation up to an overall factor. (And that does seem to be the case from their coefficients.(
@user193319 right.
@Semiclassical If you like questions like the one you posed, you should do a google search on sums of squares and positivstellensatz. It's somewhat related and there is a lot of current work being done on it, both from a pure and computational aspect.
14:34
For reference, the exampleI have in mind is this one: the restriction of the set $(x+y+z-1)^2\leq 4xyz$ to the unit cube $[0,1]^3$.
(I’m pretty sure that’s convex, anyways.)
If I project that onto the xy,yz, zx planes then all I get is just [0,1]^2 which is a trivial bound.
But the projections onto the planes x=y,y=z,z=x do yield nontrivial bounds and I’m wondering if these are sufficient
@Semiclassical That's a cute question; I suspect the answer is going to be complicated. Even for algebraic sets instead of semialgebraic sets, the issue about how many polynomial equations cut out a given variety is a subtle one. (Eg, twisted cubic)
(And cut out in what sense? Set theoretically? Transversely? Something in the middle?)
@Semiclassical thanks for the comment, but I can't understand how it's related to my question.
Mostly this is motivated by the fact that when z=y the boundary equation is (x+2y-1)^2 =4xy^2$, and the cubic term cancels from both sides
@Cardinal got distracted by my own question
Where I was going was that the first two equations are both equivalent to x2=c*x1 for some constant c.
The next step isn’t clear to me though
@BalarkaSen I guess the simplest nontrivial case would an ellipsoid and it’s elliptical projections
the simplest case is the unit sphere, but in that case all the projections are identical
Hmm. Though even in that case: can the unit sphere be obtained as a finite intersection of cylinders?
I wouldn’t be surprised if the answer was no.
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