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1:01 PM
@BalarkaSen Just be prepared that it will turn algebraic :)
 
Yes, I'm aware. Hopefully Hatcher will make it as geometric as possible.
 
Hello@iwriteonbananas
 
@BalarkaSen He probably will, though you may end up needing to also consult some other books
 
balarka, just to be sure im not being stupid: $\Bbb{R}P^2/\Bbb{R}P^1 \cong S^2$, right?
@Rememberme hello remember
 
yes, @iwriteonbananas
 
1:03 PM
alright
 
@TobiasKildetoft hm, why do you think so?
 
@BalarkaSen Just because it is a big topic that is better learned from multiple sources
 
@BalarkaSen im doing that to for exam preparation. going to (re-)do all exercises in sections 1.2, 2.1 and 2.2
 
@TobiasKildetoft ah, I see. I'll probably do that, thanks for the suggestion.
@iwriteonbananas cool
hello @Ted.
 
@Balarka: Or you can use differential topology to prove a compact surface in $\Bbb R^3$ is orientable.
 
1:12 PM
oh?
 
Hello@Ted
 
More generally, a compact hypersurface in a simply connected manifold is ....
Hi, @Remember
 
Huy
@TedShifrin: I most recently saw a topic on matheducators.SE where I thought of you, but apparently I wasn't the only one: matheducators.stackexchange.com/questions/8324/…
 
Heya
 
Oh oh @Huy
 
1:15 PM
Anyone seen @AlexClark
 
$200 is no problem, as a pirated copy is easily obtained :P
/joke
 
lol
 
Sigh, when we published it, it was $60.
 
Wow... I could have easily got it then
 
Second edition is better than first, but ... Yeah, prices are horrid.
You were a baby back then, @Remember
 
1:18 PM
Which year @Ted
 
2001
 
@BalarkaSen tell me about it. Kindle DX FTW!
Torrenting books!
 
1 year old ... haha
 
@TedShifrin when in 2001?
 
I don't know.
 
1:20 PM
Ah, probably two myself. Wow.
 
@TedShifrin Got to know of the construction of a 4-manifold with given fundamental group from Mike. Very cool.
 
cool ... He's teaching you topology I don't know.
 
Unfortunately, haven't been able to give much of a thought to it (or any of the problems I wanted to think about) as I fell a bit ill.
 
Not again!
 
@TedShifrin "teaching" is an exaggeration. but yeah, after much grumbles.
 
1:24 PM
Your's is the FIRST textbook I have seen advertised on this network :D
 
i always find what he says quite cool.
 
Much grumbling ... Or many grumbles :D
 
@TedShifrin nothing serious, just caught up cold during the seasonal change.
 
My diff geo notes were mentioned years ago, @skull ...
Lots of book recommendations. I just answered such a question on diff geo ...
 
@TedShifrin o/
 
1:29 PM
Salut, Hippa
 
well. The Knot Book was fun!
 
How small was the book??
 
Colin Adams is great.
 
meh.
 
Doubt it gave proofs of what it stated
I dont like it
 
1:31 PM
~270 pages, I guess.
There were proofs of a lot of things, but obviously not things like the four-color theorem.
:P
 
It's not meant to be a graduate book. And he gives tons of intuition and examples.
 
I guess Ted gets why someone would read it. It's not a textbook.
 
I've decided to stop talking to @Soham for reading that book.
 
@Soham I doubt it would be fun.... Doing stuff without knowing where it came from feels nonsense
 
And, anyway, I loved it, despite all the mehs from my friend. I'll put it down to him being ill.
 
1:33 PM
You're being an idiot again, Balarka.
 
@TedShifrin I think there's no point in doing knot theory without knowing how to compute knot groups.
 
@Rememberme So you've never assumed the FTA in your life?
 
FTA ?
 
Fundamental theorem of algebra.
 
He teaches how to compute them. You do all sorts of stuff you don't understand fully. Seriously, stop it.
 
1:35 PM
He teaches fundamental groups?
 
No I haven't ... Unless someone shows me a proof or I prove it I wont... It wont quite fit the setting if I assume it and prove something...@Soham
 
He does the Wirtinger algorithm ....
 
No, and I have stopped doing things and pretending doing things I don't understand fully.
@TedShifrin oh, I see.
 
You guys need to wait until you're 25 to act like authorities.
2
 
Huy
1:36 PM
Or at least until you're 22.
 
so it provides a combinatorial viewpoint on things, I guess?
 
@BalarkaSen again, you're missing the point. Nobody's claiming he knows, say, Khovanov homology or whatever.
 
JEEZ... @Soham Big names.....
 
It provides a nice enough viewpoint. If you want to diss it, try reading it first.
 
No star, @skull?
 
1:37 PM
I am not acting like an authority or anything. I tried reading and doing things I don't understand. It turned out to be of no use to me.
So talking out of experience.
 
@TedShifrin I took mine off
 
I wont go to a homology book until and unless I have done enough algebra , topology and all other prerequisites
 
Anyway, I am not talking about it anymore.
 
No, you're being a pompous ass, @Balarka. Adams is one of the great teachers/expositors. He's not Atiyah, but he makes hard math understandable and interesting.
2
Damn, @skull :D
 
There is no homology in that book. And, Balarka, I suggest you put out a hit-list for all the people who've read A Brief History of Time but don't know QFT or can't prove the formula for the Schwarzschild radius of a black hole.
I really don't want to talk about it, either.
 
1:39 PM
@TedShifrin I have nothing against the author.
 
same here
 
Huy
Oh dear, there are people who can't prove that formula, @SohamChowdhury? I won't talk to them anymore.
 
anyway, @Soham can do whatever he wants : I'm really no one to say anything.
 
Like someone else around here, you continue to miss my point. Pfeh
 
Ok, ok enough name calling...
 
1:41 PM
Try thinking about this and your run-in with Mike a while back, if you like. I have cough exciting schoolwork to catch up on. Ecology. :(
 
You mean me @TedShifrin
 
$\large{\text{MEGA ANNOUNCEMENT}}$: Today, June 27, 2015, I finished calculating elementarily the whole cases presented by Flajolet and Salvy in their celebre paper about Euler sums.
3
 
I get your point. You're saying that it's a good exposition, @TedShifrin.
But I think knowing even a bit of point-set topology before going into knot theory would be nice.
 
@TheArtist thank you! :-)
 
1:44 PM
@SohamChowdhury I really don't see what this has to do with what Mike said. We had no run-in, what he said was perfectly true -- I should be more respectful towards branches of math I am not familiar with.
 
and people you are not familiar with
 
Thats the same advice which Mike also gave me
 
And it makes me feel a bit depressed despite the success! This journey was so amazing, I would have liked to never end.
 
@Chris'ssistheartist there will always be higher mountains to climb
4
 
1:48 PM
@skillpatrol Hope so ... (starred)
 
@Balarka, I see no point in continuing this conversation. But I've often seen you be condescending toward "incremental understanding" of any topic. It's perfectly okay to get a "flavour" of a topic, but you apparently disagree. Let's leave it at that.
e.g. when I said that braid groups are cool, and you replied saying I know nothing about them (which is true, in a way).
 
Yes lets cut it out
 
But it's good to be nice to people, I've learned. I used to be like you.
13 mins ago, by Balarka Sen
So talking out of experience.
:)
Food chains and ecology call me. Ta ta, everyone. :)
 
Okay I have one whole night and a sunday... I think I can finish topological groups
 
@SohamChowdhury I didn't mean to say "I know everything about braid groups" when I said that, either.
I, too, know nothing about them.
 
1:52 PM
@Rememberme What do you mean "finish"?
 
@Balarka I remember you asking me the proof of pasting lemma I have done it....
How do you think of pasting two topological spaces?
@Tobias As in as much given in munkres
 
@Rememberme Ahh
 
learn it, it's in Munkres. it's not about pasting topological spaces, it's about extending continuity of functions from open covers of the space to the whole space.
 
No I want to know about how to paste two topological spaces
I did learn it
 
I don't know what you mean by that.
 
1:56 PM
Okay I am leaving it over here.. I cannot define paste so I cannot talk about it
 
There're a lot of ways to build larger topological spaces from smaller spaces. You need to know about quotient spaces to do that.
 
2:42 PM
I'm out to buy some Champagne and celebrate, the thing I didn't do for a good while! Today I don't wanna do mathematics anymore!
3
BBL
 
3:21 PM
@Chris'ssistheartist gg :-)
 
4:15 PM
@Hippalectryon Yeah!!!:-)
 
5:04 PM
the sea is so calm and blue, you might want to take a picture of it in your book s frontage @Chris'ssistheartist
 
@Chris'ssistheartist is more like a dragon on a volcano though :3
 
@Agawa001 :-))))))))
@Hippalectryon lolllll, am I like a dragon? :-)))
 
@Chris'ssistheartist You protect your beloved integrals and always seek new ones :P
 
@Hippalectryon Indeed! :-)
 
5:23 PM
i always get inspired by the sea when resolving math problems, i see em similar, because sea depth is so mysterious and endless and not discovered all of it. besides, it can be pleasant and enticing,in other hand it can be e=mc² :D
 
@Hippalectryon salut
 
@Gato o/
 
@Hippalectryon ça va
 
@Gato ça va et toi ?
 
5:33 PM
@Hippalectryon il fait beau donc oui
 
5:53 PM
@Agawa001 What protection would you recommend for a certain folder on your computer, say? Something safe and easy to work with.
(making archives is not the thing I like that much)
 
Huy
@Chris'ssistheartist: Rename it to "Internet Explorer" and change its icon accordingly.
 
@Huy :-)))))
 
@Chris'ssistheartist Why would you need that ?
 
@Hippalectryon Just think that I have a lot of stuff, one might write more than 10 good books with what I have at the moment. :-)
 
@Hippalectryon tu connais les fonctions polynômes ?
 
6:08 PM
@Chris'ssistheartist Protect how? From hackers or from the computer dying?
 
@TobiasKildetoft From hacking.
 
@Gato vaguement
 
@Chris'ssistheartist Seems somewhat paranoid, but I guess if it can be done without making any serious changes to how you can work with the files yourself, it does not change much
 
@Chris'ssistheartist an easy thing is to keep them on an usb when you don't use them
@Gato Quelle différence fais-tu entre les fonctions polynômes et les polynômes sur un anneau ?
 
@Hippalectryon sur un corps commutatif tu veux dire ?
 
6:10 PM
oui
 
@TobiasKildetoft Paranoid? I think you never worked in a large company and see there they ask you to change all your passwords every single month. I was neglecting this aspect of protection too much.
 
@Chris'ssistheartist Companies have data that is worth a lot of money without requiring extra effort
 
@Hippalectryon bha si on prends un corps fini on peut avoir un polynôme non nul mais telle que sa fonction polynôme soit nulle
 
@TobiasKildetoft Well, this was available (mandatory) for all, no matter some had not-so-important data to protect.
 
@Chris'ssistheartist Yeah, that is generally the way it is done because it is easier than having to decide who has access to sensitive enough data
 
6:13 PM
@Gato par exemple ?
 
@TobiasKildetoft It's never a bad idea to protect your data.
 
@Chris'ssistheartist Well, depends on the amount of effort it takes
 
$\prod_{i=1}^k (X-x_i)$
 
@TobiasKildetoft Well, the idea is to finish all this job in a few seconds. Using archives with 7-zip, say.
 
@Chris'ssistheartist truecrypt
 
6:16 PM
@Agawa001 I see. Thanks.
 
its not paranoia, i have got 3 years work encrypted in my pc, lol i wont give all that for gratos
 
@Gato On ne doit pas avoir la même définition alors. Pour moi la fonction polynôme c'est la fonction $f:x\rightarrow P(x)$
@Chris'ssistheartist Why not use archives with a password ?
 
@Chris'ssistheartist if u are computer nerd like me, making archives would be something extremly easy and prompt
 
A long password like @Chris'ssisthedragononthevolcano
 
yes, just rar it with aes encryption
til now, aes is proven to be unbreakable
 
6:18 PM
@Agawa001 @Hippalectryon yeah, I think I'll keep this.
 
command lines can ease the way you pack your files, making a cmd request as a shortcut in your sidebar
 
@Agawa001 @Hippalectryon I didn't use any protection till today. There is much stuff to protect. I simply wanna be safe until I publish my book, to have a good sleep at night.
 
[traces chriss's ip]
 
Well, storing it in a compressed format with a password is easy, and you can access your files just as easily and quickly
 
6:20 PM
Congrats, @Chris'ssistheartist. I imagine it feels nice, what you finished today.
 
@Hippalectryon oui c'est ça
 
@Agawa001 Yes!!!!!! :-)
 
lol
 
@SohamChowdhury Yeah, thanks! :-)
 
@Gato En quoi est-ce que la fonction est nulle et pas le polynôme ici ?
6 mins ago, by Gato
$\prod_{i=1}^k (X-x_i)$
 
6:21 PM
its good to see something u worked on hardn making its fruits
 
Oui tu prends $\Bbb{K}=\{x_1,\cdots,x_k\}$ pour ton corps commutatif
 
Ah oui dans ce cas :-)
afk dîner
 
afk ?
Bon app @Hippalectryon
 
6:44 PM
@Balarka, elliptic curves?
I used to be interested in those in my early CS days (very useful in cryptography, iirc). I'll save it for when I study geometry or number theory. :)
And it's not an AT obsession, I guess. I want to learn about topological invariants like $\chi$, they seem deep and stuff.
 
7:22 PM
@Gato away from keyboard
@Gato Donc, tu avais une question sur les fonctions polynômes ?
 
Hi all.
How is your day?
 
Huy
7:45 PM
@Agawa001: Three years work encrypted? To what end?
 
7:59 PM
@Hippalectryon non finalement j'ai compris ^^
 
Salut @Gato @Hippa
 
@TedShifrin hello
 
hi @mikeonly
@Gato: There's a totally standard example of what you were talking about above ^^ ...
 
@TedShifrin such that the one I proposed to Hippa ?
 
8:03 PM
did you give Hippa an example? I just saw the question.
 
$\prod_{i=1}^k (X-x_i)$
 
hmm?
What are $x_i$ and $k$?
 
@TedShifrin I took the field $\Bbb{K}$ as $\{x_1,\cdots,x_k\}$
 
oh, I see .... OK.
Do you know Fermat's little theorem?
 
@TedShifrin yes
 
8:06 PM
Then that should give you a very good concrete example.
Unless you needed one for an arbitrary finite field $K$.
 
arbitrary will be more interesting yes, let me think about Fermat's little theorem
 
Huh. I should learn French. Or at least some French math terms--I had no idea that a field was a "corps commutatif".
(Which is totally a better and more descriptive name IMO)
 
corps = field
You don't need the commutative part :P
hi, @Fargle
 
@TedShifrin Hello! And I guess that makes sense. Perhaps corps at one time meant division ring?
 
8:10 PM
I doubt it
I don't know why Hippa said what he said
 
Ok Ted, $a^p\equiv a$ mod $p$ (time to think about the proof, using group )
 
Correct, @Gato, so what polynomial should we use in $\Bbb Z/p$?
 
X^p-X ?
 
Très bien, monsieur :P
 
@TedShifrin Nice point of view :))
 
8:14 PM
@TedShifrin cuz I didnt think enough :c
 
It's exactly the same polynomial you wrote down. You should figure out why. :)
Encore une fois, @Hippa? :D
 
@TedShifrin ça me donne des idées - we can look at the morphism $\phi: P\rightarrow \overline{P}$, from polynomial to the polynomial function
 
You need to be very careful about what that actually means, @Gato.
 
@Huy dunno, its huge work thu
 
le noyau c'est l'idéal de $\Bbb{Z}/p$ engendré par $\prod_{a\in \Bbb{Z}/p}(X-a)$
 
8:21 PM
But how do you define the ring of "polynomial functions"?
 
does I need to define 'this ' ring ?
 
Yes, how does it differ from $K[X]$?
 
@TedShifrin don't know, but the morphism is from $K[X]$ to $K^{K}$
 
MJD
Is there a standard term for the relation between two point sets $A$ and $B$ that holds if the two sets have equal interiors and equal closures? For example, the relation holds between an open and a closed disc with the same center and radius, or between any set and its own interior and its own closure.
 
why is that a morphism?
@MJD, I've never heard a word.
 
MJD
8:29 PM
Thanks.
 
good question
 
I guess I'm asking you to be explicit about how you make $K^K$ a ring, @Gato.
 
Hi @Ted.
 
goodnight, @MikeM
done with your moving chores?
 
Morning @TedShifrin. Night @MikeMiller.
 
8:32 PM
good morning, @Jasper
 
No. We're helping our friend move now and then going to IKEA.
 
My schizophrenia friend contacted me after 2 years of not hearing from him. He is still alive.
 
Then I need to do more cleaning.
 
oh, that's wonderful to hear, @Jasper
 
8:34 PM
Morning @Jasper.
 
@MikeMiller I always end up getting a lot of things I didn't mean to when I go to IKEA
 
IKEA is my favourite furniture store.
 
@TedShifrin Si on regarde $a=a_0+a_1 X+\cdots+a_nX_n$ et $b=b_0+b_1 X+\cdots+b_nX_n$, on a bien $\overline{A+B}(x)=\overline{A}(x)+\overline{B}x$ de même pour le produit.
 
I've actually never been, although I may go look when I get to San Diego
 
I also like IKEA's Swedish meat balls.
 
8:35 PM
@Tobias: I've done that but usually not much. I know precisely what I'm getting today, at least.
 
@JasperLoy Here we just call them meat balls
@MikeMiller Usually they are small things I was not aware existed before I went there
 
Attention, @Gato, il y a beaucoup d'autre fonctions en $K^K$, mais t'as raison en principe. C'est un anneau énorme.
 
Too bad the supermarket Carrefour closed its branch here.
I feel very European at heart. I don't know why I was born in Asia.
 
@TedShifrin l'anneau des fonctions holomorphes possède t-il des propriétés intéressantes ?
 
Evidemment, @Gato, puisque tu connais des propriétés intéressantes des fonctions holomorphes :P
Y-a-t'il des diviseurs de zéro?
 
8:40 PM
stupid question I guess.. :D
diviseurs de zéro ?
 
Comment dit-on ça en français? $ab=0$ mais ni $a=0$ ni $b=0$.
 
ahh je pense qu'on dit diviseurs de zéro, mais j'utilise jamais ce mot, (plus souvent on parle d'intégrité )
@TedShifrin principe des zéros isolés :D
 
Exactement ... mais, autrement, pour les fonctions lisses or continues?
 
imaginary numbers they are ?
 
@Agawa: $i$, $i^2=-1$ ?
 
8:45 PM
@TedShifrin ce n'est pas vrai en général, on peut prendre deux fonctions non nulles telles que leur produit soit nul.
 
exactement :P
Alors, c'est une propriété très importante.
 
@TedShifrin Oui :D
 
ab=0 $(ix+y)(ia+b)=0$ $-xa+ixb+iya+yb=0$ $yb-xa=0$
they arent nil
 
Nope @Agawa. In the complex numbers if you multiply nonzero numbers, you get a nonzero answer. The complex numbers form a field.
 
@TedShifrin Thanks for your help, time to sleep, good night.
 
8:49 PM
Bonne nuit, @gato.
 
To add to that: every field is an integral domain (that is, contains no zero divisors). This is because every non-zero element of a field is invertible, and zero divisors are not invertible. $\Bbb Z / 6\Bbb Z$, however, is not a field, and $\overline{2} \cdot \overline{3} = \overline{0}$.
(Sorry, I've been doing a lot of ring theory. It's fresh. ^_^)
 
$y=xa/b$ $xb+xa²/b=0$ $xb²=-xa²$ $b²=-a²$ @TedShifrin
 
@Agawa: I have no idea what this is.
 
ok ok
they must be nil
atleast one of them
 
9:33 PM
Hi
Does someone of you speak italian?
 
@evinda Posso dire che parlo un po di Italiano, ma ho dimenticato molte parole da quando ho parlato l'ultima volta.
 
@Chris'ssistheartist So you speak italian?
 
@evinda A little bit. I knew it well in the past.
 
I want to say : We have finally vacations!
How can I say it? @Chris'ssistheartist
 
@evinda Finalmente abbiamo la vacanza!
 
10:03 PM
@Chris'ssistheartist Nice!!! Thank you!!!
 
10:28 PM
The way to the objectives is often far nicer than the reach of the objective, the journey is always fascinating.
Anyway, I'm out.
 
 
1 hour later…
MGA
11:41 PM
I'm doing an introductory exercise from Axler's Linear Algebra. It asks whether the set R together with the elements inf and -inf forms a vector space over R. I think it does, can someone please confirm?
 
A greek dance :D
 
nice
 
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