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01:00 - 22:0022:00 - 00:00

22:09
@Chris'ssis I can't see any nice recurrence :/
@Hippalectryon The proof only requires a few characters.
@Studentmath: Thanks for the great laugh :P
hi, méchant @Hippa
@TedShifrin I'm not méchant :/
Just evil >;)
One of the most terribly bad things is to do mathematics without being able to see the profound beauty of things. I mean if one only solves things, but don't feel that beauty, it's all in vain. I wouldn't do mathematics without being able to perceive that beauty of the amazing connections.
22:14
Hello Professor @TedShifrin
When I get dementia, I may forget all the evil things you've done to me, @Hippa, but not yet.
4
hi @skull
good grief, the star monster didn't take long
Who cares about being a good problem solver only? I don't care that at all.
wow, 11 stars on my violence :P
@TedShifrin Wasn't me though
@TedShifrin that was funny! I told you Hippa is a professional! :-)
22:18
it was?
so you're the star monster, @CHris'ssis?
@Chris'ssis i'm not !
@TedShifrin lolll, I'm on the floor! :-)))))
Hello chatTeam @Chris'ssis@TedShifrin@Hippalectryon.
@Gato Hello
salut @Gato :) comment ça-va?
22:19
@Gato Hi
I agree @Chris'ssis but appreciation of beauty is an acquired taste
@TedShifrin très bien, merci et vous?
As with attraction to human beings, often what is mathematically beautiful to one of us is ugly to another and vice versa.
Très bien, merci, @Gato :)
@skullpatrol You got me, yes, it is like that. After much work full of passion ... :-)
Indeed.
22:22
@TedShifrin I have a question: When $f$ is differentiable at $a$ i.e. $\lim_{h \to 0} \frac{f(a+h)-f(a)-T(h)}{\|h\|}=0$ where $T$ is a continuous linear application, we have the result that $f$ is also continuous. But does the fact that $T$ is a continuous linear application is crucial?
So you're thinking about this in some infinite-dimensional context, @Gato?
@TedShifrin yes :)
Yes, sure, continuity is important, as to make the proof work you need $T(h)\to 0$ as $h\to 0$.
@TedShifrin Right, does it means if $T$ is not continuous the result is false?
If $T$ is unbounded, you can choose a sequence of $h$'s where it won't go to $0$, and then you're in bad shape.
22:24
Morning
Good night, @Mike.
@TedShifrin Can T-Y be applied to a $C^3$ function ? I was told so, but if so, how do you prove it ?
what is T-Y?
Taylor Young
I have no idea what that is. How is it different from Taylor?
22:26
@TedShifrin Hum not sure I am following, why not continuous implies $T$ unbounded?
Because for linear maps $T$, $T$ is continuous if and only if it is bounded :P
You need the definition of a bounded operator :)
@TedShifrin I meant $D^n$, as opposed to $C^n$
@Hippa: What theorem are you referring to, and what is $D^n$? To me, that is the $n$-disk.
@TedShifrin Derivable $n$ times
I'm talking about the taylor expansion
ah, without assuming the last derivative continuous.
22:28
@TedShifrin haha, silly question.
@TedShifrin Do you know if we can construct an explicit counter example?
Hey @Chris'ssis
@TedShifrin You'll love this question (at least one of the many questions I post here)
@Hippalectryon Tu travailles sur quoi?
Let $x\in (0,\pi)$ and $\displaystyle f(x)=\frac{1}{\tan(x)}-\frac{1}{x}$. Prove that for $n
= 0
,
1
, . . .$
$$f^{(n)}<0$$
@evinda Hello
@Gato En ce moment, les intégrales impropres etc. Et toi ?
22:32
What's up? @Chris'ssis
@Chris'ssis Do you know if I can prove that for all real $x>0$ we have $$ \displaystyle\int_0^\frac{\pi}{2} (\sin t)^x \mathrm{d}t=\frac{\sqrt{\pi}}{x}\frac{\Gamma(\frac{x+1}{2})}{\Gamma(\frac{x}{2})‌​}$$ without beta function?
@evinda Playing with some questions. You?
@Hippalectryon Ha j'aime ce chapitre ;p. Calcul diff, je viens de commencer le cours ojd.
@Gato Can you do it for $x$ natural numbers and then extended to reals?
ojd ? @Gato
22:34
@Hippalectryon Abréviation tendancieuse de aujourd'hui..
Ah ok :)
@Gato Regarde le pdf de @TedShifrin
@Hippa: Sorry, I had a phone call. You do not need continuous derivative to state/prove Taylor.
Can someone give me a hint on how to prove the subadditivity of the limit supremum? I asked a question about it, but I'm kind of frantic and frustrated because I've been staring at it literally for days and gotten nowhere.
@Chris'ssis Not sure I can, Wallis integral for $n$..
Relax, @Michael ...
22:35
It's incredibly disheartening, really. This is the question I asked about it, and I'm sure it's trivial to a lot of people, but I can't even figure out how to start the proof.
@Hippalectryon Il y a des pds? Je ne savais pas, j'y vais tout de suite. Merci
@TedShifrin I know I should but I feel like every time I work on a proof it takes me so long.
@Gato Yeah.
@TedShifrin How do you prove it without continuity ?
Here's something you might find less frustrating, @Michael. If you have two continuous functions on $[a,b]$, $f$ and $g$, can you prove $\max (f+g) \le \max f + \max g$?
22:36
@TedShifrin You do have a book on diff calculus on your website, don't you ?
No, @Hippa. Just differential geometry.
Principle of analytic continuation.
@Hippa: When you prove Rolle's Theorem or the Mean Value Theorem, do you need $f'$ continuous?
@Gato Ah je me suis trompé :/ c'est un pdf de géométrie diff
Je suis étonné que @Hippa se soit jamais trompé :D
22:37
@TedShifrin Nope :) ok, I got it
@TedShifrin Uhm... I'm not sure of the rigorous definition of continuity yet (I'm working through some books on my own and haven't gotten there yet) and all I can see off the top of my head is that your statement is obviously true intuitively.
@TedShifrin Uhmmmmm
@Michael Not commenting on the problem, but: I used to feel that way re: taking forever to understand/prove something (often still do). Do not be disheartened. Overcome it :)
@TedShifrin (just thinking about the graph)
@Michael: Why isn't it $=$ in general?
22:39
@Chris'ssis I am studying
oh no, mr category is here
@Hippalectryon Ah dommage.
@TedShifrin It's not equal in general because one or both of the functions might be negative, which would "lower the overall max" of the sum, so to speak.
@evinda What do you study?
@TedShifrin wait, no, never mind.
22:39
@Chris'ssis Design and Analysis of Algorithms
sign isn't the point, @Michael ... But the proof is easy: $f(x)\le M$, $g(x)\le N$, so $(f+g)(x)\le ?$
I was trying to get you to think about why it's $\le $ and not $=$.
@evinda Interesting.
@TedShifrin I thought of a trivial example where equality doesn't hold in my question (the sequences (-1)^n and (-1)^(n+1))
Excellent, @Michael. That's the same point I was making with the functions.
@Hippalectryon Tu sais comment on dit Sous-espace supplémentaire en anglais?
22:41
But could $\limsup$ be bigger than the sum? No, by the same proof I'm suggesting a few lines up for functions.
@TedShifrin Right, that makes sense. Part of the problem is that with the limit supremum, I can't just say that the sequence is bounded above by that limit, right? Since the limit supremum is only the upper bound on some tail of the sequence?
@Gato SUpplementary subspace ? (not sure)
@Ted have you ever mentioned MSE to your students? I've forgotten your previous answer.
complementary
@Gato Ted can speak a bit French, though
22:41
@Chris'ssis Have you continued ith your book?
More than a bit
LOL, I talked about it the first day of diff geo, @Mike, and told them I'd better not catch them posting my homework questions. :D
What did you tell them they could use it for?
@Hippalectryon Je suis pas sur que c'est le terme "officiel"..
I discussed academic honesty and encouraged them to come to me in office hours. :D
22:42
Haha
@TedShifrin Do you know what's the english for Sous-espace supplémentaire ?
@evinda Yeah, sure. Still working on it, a long way to go. :-)
I think it can be a good resource, but I tremble about mentioning it because it can also be a bad one.
@TedShifrin Wait, are you asking if limsup of an + bn could be bigger then an + bn?
How old are you? @Chris'ssis
22:43
@evinda $30\pm$ something
Aha @Chris'ssis
@evinda You?
@Chris'ssis HAHA you remind me of Tanya Khovanova
@Michael: No, I'm asking if $\limsup (a_n+b_n)$ could be bigger than $\limsup a_n+\limsup b_n$.
@Chris'ssis She posted some days ago : When I tell you that I am closer to 30 than to 20, I mean to tell you that I am 42.
22:44
@Chris'ssis: May I say that I'm 40±something? :D
@Chris'ssis My age lies in the interval [18,28] :P
@TedShifrin Sure! :-)
@evinda Nice :-)
@ModdedBear -__________________-
One of those examples where $\epsilon$ is really $1/\epsilon^2$ :D
I am also 40 + O(1).
22:45
@Hippalectryon Just when I thought to be immune for cat images.
@Hippalectryon Legrandodom ne se connecte plus ?
@Lord_Farin hehe
But I finished my preparation :).
@Hippalectryon lol, I hope you don't think I might possibly be Tanya Khovanova :-)
@Gato C'est qui ?
@Chris'ssis Ugh I don't think so q_q you'd be famous if you were
22:46
@Gato: I certainly know examples of unbounded operators, but I've never thought of a differentiable function in that context. I suppose we could construct an example.
Un francais en prépa MP qui se connecte des fois sur le chat.
@Hippalectryon No need for fame here. :-)
@Gato: J'ai parlé avec LeGrandDodo il y a quelques jours.
@Gato Je connais juste G.T.R comme autre Français
22:47
like, $f$ as an operator on $C^\infty(\Bbb R)$ by multiplication...? What topology?
@Chris'ssis Are you from USA ? :p
Il a intégré l'année dernière (je pense), à moins qu'il n'ai fait 5/2, ce dont je doute @Gato
@evinda I'm from Romania. And you?
@TedShifrin Ok I will think about it. Il doit réviser alors..
@Hippalectryon Non, G.T.R= Le grand dodo
@Gato :O
@Gato Il est encore en MP ?
22:47
Guess @Chris'ssis
@Hippalectryon yep.
@evinda: Shall I hint?
@Gato That's sad :/
@Gato Je pensais qu'il avait intégré
@evinda USA?
@TedShifrin You can :P
22:48
@Hippalectryon Il veut l'X aussi :)
Pourquoi es-tu triste, @Hippa?
@Chris'ssis Wrong!
@Gato Le pire, c'est qu'il est (enfin, était l'année dernière, donc devrait toujours y être) dans ma prépa
@evinda lol, just don't tell me you're from Romania too! :D
@Chris'ssis: A very, very, very old country, deep in the Mediterranean.
22:49
@Chris'ssis Why not? :D
@TedShifrin I thought GTR had managed to get the school he wanted
Greece ...
@Hippalectryon Quel prépa?
@Gato llg
Perfect, @Chris'ssis.
22:49
@Hippalectryon Tu es a LLG??
I don't know, @Hippa. I haven't talked with him about it.
@Chris'ssis @TedShifrin Akribos
@Gato Oui, pourquoi ?
@evinda Greece, right?
22:50
@Hippalectryon wah la chance ;p
@Gato Hehe ;-)
@Chris'ssis Oui
I don't understand, @evinda.
Neither do I.
@TedShifrin @Chris'ssis Akribos=Exactly in greek
22:50
Ahhhhhhhh
:-)
Oh :) One of many languages I don't know :(
:( @TedShifrin
@Hippalectryon Le niveau est super élevé ou c'est un mythe ? J'ai jamais rencontré qql1 qui vient de LLG. Il est en MP^* donc?
I used the letter $\upsilon$ in my differential geometry class today, and most of the students had no idea it was a letter or how it was pronounced in English.
@Hippalectryon Don't forget the question I asked above, you may rarely find something like that. It's a math jewel. :-)
22:52
@TedShifrin $\pi$ is easier ;)
Most Americans/English speakers can't tell the difference between $\nu$ and $\upsilon$, @evinda.
@Gato Il est probablement en MPX[insert number here]. C'est dur de dire sand recul si le niveau est très élevé, mais enn tt cas il est de toute évidence plus élevé que celui de ma prépa de sup (à Anthony)
@TedShifrin Well, it looks like an ordinary $v$. I found it harder to learn the $\mathfrak g$.
@Chris'ssis I saved it, don't worry
@Hippalectryon It's NOT created by me. I also received it from someone.
22:53
No, @Lord, you're thinking of nu :P
Aha @TedShifrin
At least the way the prof wrote it on the blackboard.
@Chris'ssis Your brother ?
@Hippalectryon Yeah. Perfect guess! :-)
@TedShifrin I'm hardly thinking anything at the moment :).
In fact, I'd better be off to bed.
22:54
LOL, g'night.
@TedShifrin I saw that you are from Athens... So we have a same city :D
@evinda, yes, but I'm moving away very soon.
Good night :). @Ted
@Hippalectryon okok, MPX je connais pas. en tout cas tout ceux qui ont la médaille fields en France venait de llg..
@TedShifrin Because of your job?
22:55
I'm retiring, @evinda. I'm worn out :D
@Lord_Farin you seem tense ... think of some jokes and laugh :-)
@Gato Moi je suis en PCX2 en revanche. (X=étoile)
@TedShifrin Good night.
But will you state in the same country? @TedShifrin
@Gato: Moi, je ne m'en vais pas encore :)
22:55
@TedShifrin I can tell the difference between v and nu. There is no difference between v and upsilon, I'm telling you...
yes, @evinda, although I really would love to visit Greece sometime
@TedShifrin Désolé donc ^^
@Mike, nu is sharp like v, and upsilon is quite rounded.
@Gato: Tu voudrais bien que je m'en aille? :D
@Hippalectryon D'acc, bon tu vises quelle école donc? Tu fais bcp de maths et la chimie dans tout ça? ;p
@TedShifrin You are very welcome... you will also like the weather!!!
22:57
meh
smacks @Mike yet again
@Gato Surtout bcp de maths, j'aime beaucoup les maths. Mais j'ai choisi PC car je ne voulais pas lâcher la chimie non plus.
@Gato Une ENS
@TedShifrin Pas du tout, comment pourrais-je trouver des réponses à mes questions sinon? :D
@Hippalectryon J'espère que tu l'auras donc!
@Gato: Je ne te réponds guerre.
@Gato Merci !
22:58
And the food... @TedShifrin
@TedShifrin Vous l'avez fait pour les applications différentiables.
Freudian slip, guère, not guerre.
LOL ... That was bad ...
@TedShifrin hehe
I guess my smacking really has gotten out of control :D
I declare war upon you, Gato ! -Ted Shifrin
22:59
@DanielFischer Have you been in Greece? :D
@Hippa: This time I cannot accuse you of being méchant.
* evil smile *
@Hippa: Tu t'amuses trop ici.
@Hippalectryon haha, perhaps this sentence will appears on the right..
@TedShifrin C'est bien pour ça que je viens hehe, les maths&co c'est super :D
23:00
@Gato: You know examples of unbounded (non-continuous) linear operators?
@Hippalectryon How is the weather in France? :P
@evinda It's 00:01 AM here, so no idea
A ok @Hippalectryon
@TedShifrin The dirac measure for the norm $1$ on $C_1([a,b],\Bbb{R})$ just this one ^^
Hallo @Alessandro
23:03
What about the derivative mapping $C^1\to C^0$ with the $C^0$ norm on both?
"Note that while the sign depends on the orientation of $S^3$, it does not depend on the orientation of $S^1$. (Proof: Unscrew a nut from a bolt, then flip it over and screw it back on.)"
Hallo @evinda
@TedShifrin Ah my professor talks about this (derivative polynomial), but I don't know how can we prove that the derivative operator is non-continuous..
@Alessandro Ich habe gesehen dass du in Deutschland studierst... Mathe?
If I put the $C^1$ norm in the domain, it is continuous, @Gato. It depends on the norm (topology)
Nice multi-national crew here this evening :)
23:07
@evinda Ich will Mathe studieren, aber ich muss zuerst Deutsch lernen! Jetzt besuche ich einen deutschkurs
Aha @Alessandro
Wie findest du die deutsche Sprache? @Alessandro
@TedShifrin why it would be continuous ? What's the $C^0$ norm? $\Vert f\Vert_0=\int_0^{1}\vert f(t) \vert dt$?
@Alessandro: Dieser Satz war aber sehr gut !
No, @Gato, it's the sup norm.
no, @Gato, $\max |f(x)|$.
23:09
Finde ich auch!
Sie ist total verschieden von Italienisch, aber sie ist nicht zu schwierig
Sie? :D
Sprache ist feminin... oder?
@Alessandro: You can teach me Italian :)
@MikeMiller@TedShifrin Ok.
23:10
Tell us an italian word @Alessandro :p
Jawohl, @Alessandro. Vielleicht hab'ich einen Fehler gemacht. Ich weiß ja nicht.
Since it's midnight here I'd go with buonasera :D
@Mike: I assigned my diff geo students a problem about spirals $r(t)(\cos t,\sin t)$. And the point was to prove that they have finite length ($0\le r\le 1$) if and only if $r$ and $|r'|$ were both integrable on $[0,\infty)$. One student left off the absolute value. Cool question to give a counterexample.
LOL @Alessandro
Is that one word or two?
I'm not sure either @TedShifrin , I can understand German pretty well now, but my grammar isn't nearly as good :p
@Alessandro Vi auguro una buona serata
ist es richtig?
23:12
Very nice, @Ted
It is a single composite word, made up of buona (good) and sera (evening)
Interesting, @Alessandro. OK, you just gave me the first lesson.
Weird, in French, bonjour is one word but bonne nuit is two.
@evinda Richtig! Kannst du ein bisschen Italieniesch?
Nein, habe ich von google translate :p @Alessandro
smacks @evinda
23:15
In Italian buonasera and buongiorno are usually written as a single word, but you can write both buona notte and buonanotte for goodnight
Ich habe jetzt vor russisch zu lernen.. könnt ihr? @Alessandro @TedShifrin
Ich habe russisch ein Jahr studiert.
@TedShifrin Ist die Sprache schwer?
Nicht zu viel. Auf deutsch mußt man konjugieren und deklenieren :P (That's not right.)
@evinda Ich habe ein Jahr in China gewhont, in der nähe von Russland, trotzdem kenne ich kein Russisch
23:17
wow, @Alessandro has been everywhere
Was hast du denn in China gemacht? @Alessandro
@Alessandro: Why did you leave Italy to go study math in Germany? There's great math in Italy.
I have to switch to english since this is getting to complicate :p I was in China as an exchange student
@Alessandro Do you speak chinese?
@TedShifrin Do you know what's the english for sous-espaces supplémentaires?
23:19
Austauschschüler heißt es in deutsch :P
yes, @Gato, complementary subspaces.
@TedShifrin thanks
weird that French uses supplement there (complementary angles add up to $\pi/2$, supplementary add up to $\pi$).
@TedShifrin That's a complicate question actually :D There are indeed good maths universities in Italy, but there are better ones in germany! Also I'm interested particularly in set theory and logic, which aren't really considered a lot in Italy.
Ah, well, @Alessandro, that's the part of math that interests me the least, so you have fun :P
23:21
@Alessandro I also like Set theory :p
@evinda Ich hatte ein bisschen Chinesisch gelernt, aber ich habe alles vergessen :(
@Alessandro Achso
Still, @Alessandro, I would say that you should learn a lot of mathematics in college/university and then specialize as you go to get your graduate degree.
It's just too easy to forget chinese when you don't practice it every day
@Alessandro I think that happens with all the languages..
23:22
Because we used complementary (complémentaire) as card(complementary(X))=E-card(X).
I decided to specialize in one topic after a few years of undergrad; in grad school I'm doing something quite different. Whence I agree with @TedShifrin's judgement above.
@Gato, yes, complement. So I don't understand why it should be supplement for subspaces.
@TedShifrin: that's true, but I also had other reasons to move to germany, I know people who live here and so on, so far I think it wasn't a bad choice :D
(In any case, it's good to have a firm knowledge of many different areas.)
@Alessandro: I'm not criticizing you at all. Just saying you should learn a broad amount of math first.
Damn, I hate it when @Mike agrees with me.
23:24
@evinda yes, but I think it's particularly easy with chinese (or other non alphabetic languages) where most of the study it's strictly mnemonic (is that a word?)... I mean, the grammar is very easy, but you must know everything by hearth
@TedShifrin for example the complement is unique not the supplement.
@Ted If it makes you feel better, the Yankees are my favorite baseball team and I hate pickles.
Huh? Oh, for subspaces ... but with angles, it's still unique.
Aha! @Alessandro
LOL @Mike. I don't care about baseball. But I do like pickles :P
23:25
And when will you start studying? @Alessandro
@TedShifrin Ah ok, je n'ai pas compris votre remarque sur les angles
@TedShifrin I didn't get it as a critique :) well, I have to study a variety of topics anyway in the university before i get to specialize, who knows, I might chance my mind by then, abstract algebra is also very interesting :p
Good, @Alessandro. I'll check on you in two or three years :P
@evinda Hopefully (if I pass my exams) I'll be able to start studying in the next winter semester so sometimes in October
Glückliche Wünsche, @Alessandro.
23:28
Vielen Dank!
@Alessandro Viel Glück
Another question before going to sleep, if $F,G$ two complementary subspaces in $E$ a normed vector space. Let $A$ be a linear map of $E$ onto $\Bbb{R}$. If $A$ restrained to $F$ is continuous and $A$ restrained to $G$ is continuous. Does $A$ is continuous?
@Ted I've finally joined your club of getting downvoted every few days.
@Gato, think about $\Bbb R^2$.
I'm sorry, @Mike. I've been spared that for a while.
@Mike: That poor guy trying to understand the Euler class ... I want to teach him a course, and that's not plausible in comments. :P
Thanks @evinda!
23:33
Huh? which guy?
the one I linked you too, and you whined it was tooooo long @Mike
@Alessandro Was sonst so? :D
Oh, I didn't read that, it was tooooo long.
@TedShifrin Plan et droite : I think about that but what linear map I need to think?
I'm a big fan of Bott/Tu, but the poor guy is confused even about partitions of unity. On the other hand, he was thinking in a non-standard way which led to confusion, and I can't completely resolve his confusion :P
Ooops, I missed linear. @gato
23:35
It's a good book, but I agree with the warning you gave me when I first started looking at it: one first needs to have a firm understanding of basic smooth manifold theory.
@evinda I'm afraid that I need an english (or italian if you wish :p) translation!
@Alessandro I asked: What else? :D
@Gato: Think about continuous linear maps in terms of bounds.
Achso! That's embarassing, I should have known it, I'm going to accuse the time and my sleepiness for that :D
@Mike: Respond on FB, but I'm worried about our mutual friend.
23:36
@TedShifrin No problem, ok I will think about it tomorrow. I am going to sleep I am so tired now..
Good night everyone.
Bonne nuit @Gato
@Alessandro :D Now you know it :p
I responded, @Ted
I don't know what's your timezone, but it's 00:40 here and I have to get up in 6:20 hours, so I think I should go to sleep now! Buonanotte a tutti!
@Alessandro Good night!!!!
23:45
Back to ronda alla turka
Buonanotte @Alessandr4o
ugh ...
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