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21:14
Salut @GTR, hi @Studentmath... I hope no sirens.
Hi @Ted.
Hi @Daniel. Cool problem I've been giving the kids I'm working with ... still don't have the maximally elegant proof :) Prove that any $C^\infty$ function $f\colon\Bbb R^2\to\Bbb R$ that vanishes on the coordinate axes can be written as $f(x,y)=xyg(x,y)$ for a smooth function $g$. :)
Hey Prof. @Ted, and nah, Java (CS) @G.T.R
I don't see a nicer proof than integrating.
Well, I had them prove the so-called $C^\infty$ trick: A $C^\infty$ $f\colon\Bbb R^2\to\Bbb R$ with $f(0)=0$ can be written as $f(x,y)=xg_1(x,y)+y g_2(x,y)$ for smooth functions $g_i$. That uses an integral. What do you mean?
21:23
$$f(x,y) = \iint_{[0,1]^2} \frac{\partial^2}{\partial s\,\partial t} f(sx,ty)\,ds\,dt$$
Oh, that's cute. Inductive application of the proof, rather than inductive application of the result. :)
raises eyebrows @Studentmath
I could pull some joke on that 6-0, but I rather not
The wow was towards the 6, @Ted!
21:28
Ah ... I hope things don't get worse, @Studentmath, but I have a feeling the Mideast is about to detonate ... stay safe.
Note to @GTR: Avoid $i$ as a summation index when working with complex numbers/functions.
I could barely study today :P But yeah, it happens from time to time, usually it calms after a week. Hope it will calm down again
This is so much cooler than this one
@Ted you want some $j$ instead, like physicists :P
no, I want a neutral index for the summation, silly :P
Using my approach, @Daniel, it works but smoothness along the axes takes an argument. Your approach is, as I expect of you, much cleaner. We'll see if my undergrads think of it :)
Undergrads, probably not, unless you have some bright ones. I wouldn't have come up with it at that age/level of experience.
This is a crazy game ...
Is it 6-6 now, @Chris'ssis?
They're both quite talented, and we've been doing multivariable analysis/manifolds (mostly from my book) to get ready for the differential topology class this fall.
21:36
@TedShifrin Ah, not run-of-the-mill undergrads.
No, no, no.
Both headed to Ph.D.'s in math.
@BalarkaSen, if nothing changes, you'll be right! 0-7...
Cool. That can be real fun teaching them, @Ted.
One has taken 4 classes from me, the other just diff geo this past spring. I was getting him ready for diff top. He sadly missed out on the tough multivariable math class because undergrads these days are very docile about studying the course catalog to see what might be good for them.
And advisers are worthless ... generally speaking.
@DanielFischer Don't you watch the game? The whole planet does watch it. :-)
21:38
@Chris'ssis No, I don't watch it.
Neither does Ted, I believe.
Nope, neither does Ted.
I just spent 2 weeks on Wimbledon. I'm done. :)
@DanielF, forgive me for asking a personal question (which you can choose not to answer, of course). Since I observe that you're here 'round the clock, are you now retired?
heya mr @Kaj
I've arrived!
But where?
One cannot simply say that Brazil had a bad day and that's all since this difference tells a lot ...
Not working for medical reasons, @Ted.
21:42
Ah, I wondered, @Daniel. Well, I hope you're ok, and you are a treasure here ...
Where is Pedro (now)? :-)
Pedro's tired of us.
I guess he's in or near Buenos Aires.
indeed.
for another few weeks.
Maybe he has a Tennis class, or he watches football.
21:46
Do you get out and play tennis much @Ted?
Well, try to play once a week, @Kaj. Do you play?
Ah, they did score in the end @BalarkaSen
Unfortunately not. I have a bothersome lazy eye that makes it difficult to play such games :( I play racquetball sometimes though.
Racquetball is way faster in closer quarters. Why shouldn't tennis be easier?
It probably would be! I'm not too great at it either, haha
21:49
well, @Kaj, you still have youth on your side :)
If @Pedro comes to visit, he'll give us a tennis clinic :)
Note how kind I was, @Kaj. I didn't make any snide remarks about "lazy." :D
@Chris'ssis The harmonic remainder series?
haha, that's true!
@G.T.R Yes. I was half-right
Heya @Ted @Kaj
Heya @Balarka
21:55
Hey there
Oh there is mr @Pedro
Poor Brazil.
Ah, @Pedro
What's the score right now @Pedro? Last I heard it was 5-0
21:56
Match ended, 7-1.
Wow, that's incredible. I wasn't watching though, haha
'Twas Maradona who made them lose.
After all.
lose @Balarka
don't want you failing English, too
@TedShifrin potato pohtato
@TedShifrin I always get 90+ at Eng.
21:57
don't sass me, boy
if there's anything I can be proud of, it's my english.
@TedShifrin Today I had a midterm.
another one, @Pedro?
@TedShifrin Yes, still two to go. This one was analysis.
I didn't even know you were taking an analysis class. Learning anything?
22:00
Not really, no.
@N3buchadnezzar Brazil all out.
@TedShifrin Today's exam had nice questions though.
You should do the problem I posed earlier. But don't scroll up. Suppose $f\colon \Bbb R^2\to\Bbb R$ is smooth and vanishes on the coordinate axes. Prove that $f(x,y)=xyg(x,y)$ for some smooth $g$.
Define $g(x,y)=f(x,y)/xy$ now let's prove it is smooth...?
Well, it's not even everywhere defined yet :P
22:03
Well, with the obvious definitions.
Hehe.
Well, that's where the issue is. It's obviously smooth away from the axes.
$x = 0$. Undefined.
Darn internet.
@Balarka, what did the doctor say?
If I recall correctly, Spivak had me prove that if $f(0)=0$, one could write $f(x)$ as $\sum x_i g_i(x)$ for some $g_i$; or something like that.
@TedShifrin I went to a check up to a nearby doctor today.
ha! jinx!
22:04
Correct, @Pedro :)
@TedShifrin Terrbile infection.
All allergic.
Ugh. All allergic? So how are they treating it?
No antibiotics working.
So they gave me an anti-allergic.
That's because so many people over-subscribe and over-take antibiotics, they've become almost worthless. Quite scary, actually.
If this pursues then I may have to take steroids.
22:05
@TedShifrin Is this one much different?
Chest congested, @Balarka?
Totally agree @TedShifrin.
@TedShifrin Yes.
thag ya very buch. see?
Well, @Pedro, that's the route I sent my students on.
@TedShifrin Cool. =)
22:06
@Balarka: You need to take care.
@TedShifrin I don't care about care.
IT gets a bit dodgy, @Pedro.
@Chris'ssis I took some time to look back at this integral and got $\frac\pi4$.
@Balarka: You're too young to spend your life ill.
I had this problem today. Show that uniformly continuous functions send totally bounded sets to totally bounded sets.
22:08
That's straightforward if you knowz definitions.
They extend continuously to the completions.
We assume already defined on the metric space, @DanielF :)
@Chris'ssis oops. that is without the square...
I've always been confused: Does "smooth" denote $\mathcal{C}^3$ or $\mathcal{C}^k$ for arbitrarily large $k$?
heya @robjohn
22:09
@TedShifrin Well, one can use that a set is totally bounded iff every sequence has a Cauchy subsequence.
smooth usually denotes $C^\infty$, @Kaj, although I said it meant $C^3$ in diff geo.
@TedShifrin To the completions of the metric spaces. Now, totally bounded = relatively compact.
Agreed, @TedShifrin
@robjohn I was about to scream here " Yuppiiiiiiiiiiiiii" :-))). Yeah, there is a square.
Then one takes $f(x_n)$; pulls back $x_n$, obtains a Cauchy $x_{n_j}$ and gets a Cauchy $f(x_{n_j})$.
22:09
I surmise even the definition works ok, @Pedro, but perhaps I'm missing something.
Anyone got a fun number theory/group theory/galois theory problem?
@Chris'ssis I think I can compute that integral, too... I copied it back then, and I didn't see the square. Was that added later?
@TedShifrin howdy.
@Balarka: Can there be a polynomial whose Galois group (over $\Bbb Q$) is the $8$-element quaternion group?
@TedShifrin 'course it can.
@robjohn No. It was that way from the beginning. This is just a hard version. I remember you evaluated the version without square (you gave an answer to one of my questions).
22:11
@DanielFischer What did you have in mind?
@Chris'ssis I did? Hmmm...
@TedShifrin It'll take time for me to construct it explicitly though.
@PedroTamaroff For your uniformly continuous maps?
Let me see.
@robjohn Yeah. Let me find it.
22:12
It was something like a nested form radical.
The concrete problem was showing that if we have a function $f:B(0,1)\subseteq \Bbb R^n\to X$ that is UC, ${\rm im}\; f$ is totally bounded.
OK, after you construct it, @Balarka: Can there be a quartic?
@TedShifrin Eh, that's nontrivial.
@PedroTamaroff Uniformly continuous means it has a continuous extension to $\overline{B(0,1)}$, which is compact (if $X$ is not yet complete, the extension has codomain $\tilde{X}$).
22:12
I have to think.
Well, you wanted to think.
@TedShifrin Yes, I did.
@Chris'ssis Ah... I think I can put the $m$ in this method...
@DanielFischer Yes. Well, one needs to consider $X$ as a subspace of its completion.
$$
\begin{align}
\int_0^\infty\frac{\sin(x)\,\mathrm{d}x}{x(\cos(x)+\cosh(x))}
&=\frac12\int_0^\infty\frac{\sin(x)\,\mathrm{d}x}{x\cos\left(\frac{1+i}2x\right)\cos\left(\frac{1-i}2x\right)}\\
&=\frac12\int_0^\infty\left(\tan\left(\frac{1+i}2x\right)+\tan\left(\frac{1-i}2x\right)\right)\frac{\mathrm{d}x}{x}\\
&=\mathrm{Re}\left(\int_0^\infty\tan\left(\frac{1+i}2x\right)\frac{\mathrm{d}x}{x}\right)\\
&=\mathrm{Re}\left(\frac\pi4+\int_0^\infty i\tanh(x)\frac{\mathrm{d}x}{x}\right)\\
&=\frac\pi4
\end{align}
22:14
@BalarkaSen, consider the polynomial $f(x) = x^3 + x + 1$. Is $\sqrt{-31} \in \mathbb{Q}[x]/\langle f(x) \rangle$? Is $\sqrt{-31}$ an element of the splitting field?
Discriminants, anyone, @Kaj?
@KajHansen $\Bbb Q[x]/(f(x)) = \Bbb Q(\alpha)$, $\alpha$ a root of that poly.
@Chris'ssis The $\pi/4$ comes from the integral around the large circle.
You gave it away @Ted! It's not quite so easy if you don't catch on to that.
@KajHansen So no.
22:15
You are allowed to spank me for that, @Kaj.
@DanielFischer This one was easy too. Suppose $X$ is a connected unbounded metric space. Then for each $a\in X$ and $r>0$ there is $x$ with $d(a,x)=r$.
@robjohn This one looks very nice.
Why so no @Balarka?
@Chris'ssis I think I can extend it for the square.
@TedShifrin What are the roots of $x^3 + x + 1$?
I have to compute.
22:17
Indeed. :)
@PedroTamaroff Indeed. Otherwise $X = B_r(a) \cup \{ x : d(x,a) > r\}$
@robjohn That would be great!
Or just apply intermediate value theorem, @Pedro.
@TedShifrin Oh, OK
$-31$
It's not necessary to compute the roots of $f$ to come up with a solid argument why $\sqrt{-31} \not\in \mathbb{Q}[\alpha]$.
22:18
@KajHansen Disc.
LOL, no @Balarka
@Kaj: I'm glad you learned something from that crummy algebra book.
@TedShifrin WAT?
Isn't Cardano consisting of discs?
@TedShifrin, I got this problem from Artin ;)
Well, fine, then @Kaj. GRR.
@DanielFischer Hm, another one was showing that if $f:X\times Y\to Z$ is such that each $f(x,-)$ is continuous and the family of $f(-,y)$ is equicontinuous, then $f$ is continuous.
22:19
My 4000 students certainly would have known how to answer your first question.
The discriminant of $x^3 + x + 1$ is $-31$. The roots are of roots of $\sqrt{-31}$.
So it's in $\Bbb Q(\alpha)$
Indeed @Ted :)
Easy too. Then it asked about the case when each $f(x,-)$ is UC and the family of $f(-,y)$ is unif. equicontinuous. I couldn't think of a counterexample, then usual spirit d'escalier and a friend's comment gave $f(x,y)=xy$, $\Bbb R^2\to\Bbb R$.
NOOOO @Balarka. THINK.
I think @Balarka is too sick for our questions, @Kaj.
@TedShifrin So $\sqrt{31} \in \Bbb Q(\alpha)$? I am not sure.
@TedShifrin Probably.
22:21
<--- Not giving any more away.
I can't recall cardano's formula.
You don't need to, @Balarka.
Maybe so :P You could also try to find a polynomial with the quaternions as its Galois group.
@PedroTamaroff The family $\{ x \mapsto xy : y \in \mathbb{R}\}$ is not equicontinuous. You need to restrict $y$ to a bounded subset for that.
@DanielFischer Oh, well. True.
22:23
ok, dinnertime for me. Y'all misbehave without me.
Well, it's quite obvious.
$[\Bbb Q(\alpha) : \Bbb Q]$ is $3$ whilst $[\Bbb Q(\sqrt{-31}) : \Bbb Q]$ is 2
The latter doesn't divide the former.
@Kaj
YES!!!
There we go.
No need for discriminats and whatsoever.
@BalarkaSen where |---> whilst
@PedroTamaroff yes, thanks.
22:27
whereas
Now show that $\sqrt{-31} \in K$ where $K/\mathbb{Q}$ is the splitting field of $f$.
@KajHansen i am not seeing it.
wait
oh
$\prod_{i < j} (\alpha_i - \alpha_j) = \sqrt{-31}$
@Kaj
Indeed!
I am very slow on serious thinkings.
Now I have to do Ted's problem.
$\Bbb Q_8 = V_4 \rtimes \Bbb Z_2$, am I right?
That one took me a while because I had no idea where $\sqrt{-31}$ was coming from.
22:36
@KajHansen Ted's hint of discriminants helped me.
I forgot what a discriminant was =P.
Unfortunately I am not familiar with semidirect products.
@KajHansen OK, nevermind.
Peeedro
@PedroTamaroff
@BalarkaSen That has too many elements of order $2$. The quaternion group has only one.
@DanielFischer $-1$, yeah.
But what are the involutions of the right side?
@BalarkaSen Whats.
22:41
5 mins ago, by Balarka Sen
$\Bbb Q_8 = V_4 \rtimes \Bbb Z_2$, am I right?
Well, $V_4 \rtimes \mathbb{Z}_2$ contains $V_4$ as a subgroup. That makes three. And $\mathbb{Z}_2$, the fourth.
The quaternion group is not a semidirect product of anything.
So 1 --> Z_2 --> Q_8 --> V_4 is not split.
great.
It is known.
#GOT #dothraki
22:42
just my luck that i found a nonsplit short exact sequence.
so my trickseys for D_8 are not gonna work for constructing the field.
@robjohn Yes. (I didn't note this message when it was posted)
Night, everybody.
@DanielFischer Night. Maybe some time later I will come in with more interesting problems. =D
@KajHansen I have to just prove existence of such a field, not explicitly construct it, right?
23:14
I figured this doesn't have enough content for a full question so I came here to ask:
Does anyone have a hint as to how to prove that for $1 < p < q < \infty$ we have
$$
\lVert f \rVert_p \le \mu(\Omega) \lVert f \rVert_q
$$
where $\Omega$ is the space you're working over and doesn't contain any set of arbitrarily large measure. I know that I have to use Hölder's Inequality but I'm not sure how.
$\mu(\Omega)^{1/p-1/q}$*, sorry I tried to edit it above but apparently it was too late (and I have a horrid inet connection ATM so that's probably why)
Anyone here that is not unfamiliar with simplicial maps? I have a quick question
23:35
@DanZimm $$\int_\Omega|f(x)|^p1\,\mathrm{d}x \le\left(\int_\Omega\left(|f(x)|^p\right)^{q/p}\,\mathrm{d}x\right)^{p/q} \left(\int_\Omega1^{q/(q-p)}\,\mathrm{d}x\right)^{1-p/q} =\|f\|_q^{p/q}\mu(\Omega)^{1-p/q}$$
@DanZimm $$\|f\|_p\le\|f\|_q\mu(\Omega)^{1/p-1/q}$$
GAH I couldn't figure out the right exponents, thanks @robjohn
user105491
@user128779 What's the question?
Sigh, count on either @robjohn or @DanielF to scoop me :)
user105491
@TedShifrin Done with dinner?
23:51
Yup.
r9m
r9m
@Chris'ssis limit be .. $\displaystyle \dfrac{\sqrt{e}}{2}$ :D (if I didn't do another crazy mistake there) ... :o
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