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18:04
@robjohn Is the fixed point of $\sin x+\cos x$ transcendental?
Half of the time when i write a question on MSE after having thought a while on it i find how to solve it just before finishing to write it :c
$$\int_0^1 \left(\log(x) \log(1-x)\right)^2 \ dx$$
@Chris'ssis Syyymmeettryyy
does $\log$ mean $\ln$ or $\ln_{10}$ ?
@Hippalectryon $\ln$ of course.
@Hippalectryon Me too!
18:09
@Sawarnik Don't say Of course
@Sawarnik To me it's $\ln_{10}$
>8(
God that question was just so obvious -_-
@Hippalectryon Top tip: If you see an integral sign in the same sentence there is a 99.999999% chance that it will be natural log
I don't even understand why i spent 20 minutes thinking about it
@Alizter ok ty
@Hippalectryon Wich?
@Sawarnik uh well
@Sawarnik Let $S$ be a set with $n$ elements.

Let $P(S)=\{X\mid X\subseteq S\}$

Let $H\subseteq\mathcal{P}(S)$ (hypergraph with edge set $S$).

Let $H_{|U}=\{U\cap A\mid A\in H\}$

Let $\dim_{\text{VC}}(H)=1+\max\{|U|\mid U\subseteq S\text{ and }H_{|U}=\mathcal{P}(U)\}$

Let $H'=H_{|S\backslash\{x\}}$

Let $H''=\{\alpha\in H'\mid\alpha\in H\text{ and }\alpha\cup\{x\}\in H\}$


Show that $\dim_{\text{VC}}(H')\leq\dim_{\text{VC}}(H)$ and $\dim_{\text{VC}}(H'')<\dim_{\text{VC}}(H)$
@Hippalectryon Nothing.
18:13
@Sawarnik What's the matter -_-
@Sawarnik Btw i don't know anything more than what's written three messages before on hypergraph theory
@Sawarnik Good question.
I bet yes.
@BalarkaSen Do you have an affirmative answer?
I will bet yes too though.
@Sawarnik I'll look for it.
Good questions deserve good answers.
OK, $\sin(x) + \sqrt{1-\sin^2(x)} = x$
$(\sin(x) - x)^2 = 1 - \sin^2(x)$
Yep, you got that right. I don't have a pen and paper in front of me.
$\sin^2(x) - 2x\sin(x) + (2\sin^2(x) - 1) = 0$
Hmm. $2\sin^2(x) - 1$ looks familiar.
You missed a $x^2$.
r9m
r9m
@Sawarnik is that the intersection of the graph with $x$ or the iterative fixed point ?
18:22
@Sawarnik My bad.
$x^2 - 2x\sin(x) + (2\sin^2(x) - 1) = 0$
Well, actually let's try it with $\cos(x)$.
@r9m I don't know :/ ... sinx+cosx=x has only one real solution.
This geometry game I created is now moved to a new adress: http://www.euclidthegame.org
For the people interested.
$x^2 - 2x\cos(x) + (2\cos^2(x) - 1) = 0$
@Kasper Oh! Are you paying for it?
$x^2 - 2x\cos(x) + \cos(2x) = 0$
18:24
For the domain, yes. The hosting is free
r9m
r9m
@Sawarnik okay .. :)
@r9m Same thing in complex domain. Oh, right, I didn't check whether the fixed point is attracting, yeah.
And if people want to contribute by writing new levels, it is now on github:
https://github.com/kasperpeulen/euclidthegame
Besides $\sin x+\cos x=\sqrt2 \sin (x+\frac{\pi}4)$ @Balarka.
That's a much nice form.
Well done, @Sawarnik
18:27
Awww!
Aww java or whatever -_-
@Sawarnik You did that by yourself, right?
@Chris'ssis You've probably told me already, but what's $\zeta(x)$ ?
@BalarkaSen What?
@Hippalectryon Zeta function perhaps, google.
18:28
I mean, it was just nonobvious to me. but nevermind.
r9m
r9m
:16148242 that looks familiar .. did you post it here before ? :-)
I'm out for a while.
@Chris'ssis Why does it keep appearing in your results ? Is it because of some previous result ?
@r9m No ...
r9m
r9m
@Chris'ssis ah .. okay
18:29
@Chris'ssis If you move Zeta(2) and Zeta(4) together there is (kindof) two 24's :)
@Kasper I don't think that big equilateral triangle there is necessary :)
but good job :)
There is a mind-blowing way to evaluate that.
:-)
@Chris'ssis How many minds do you have to be able to keep blowing them :c
r9m
r9m
Ties himself to the mast .. so that he won't get blown away from the deck :P
18:31
@Sawarnik Is $x$ rational in degrees or radians?
Or, @Chris'ssis is a zombie
@Chris'ssis Hair dryer?
@r9m By "deck" you mean deck transformation group?
@Alizter @Hippalectryon @r9m :))))))))))
r9m
r9m
@BalarkaSen Thats just too much :P
18:31
@r9m Not sure if it would be helpful :P
@BalarkaSen Why would be $x$ rational? :/ :/
@Sawarnik you would make it smaller ?
@Sawarnik Fixed point, dear.
I am assuming $x$ is the fixed point.
@Kasper I would remove it. I expect someone playing this game to know what an equi tri is.
@BalarkaSen Yes but then, rational??
@Sawarnik I got as feedback that I should give more definitions
@Sawarnik you mean the point so that $x=\sin(x)+\cos(x)$?
18:34
@robjohn Yes :)
@Sawarnik I give up explaining.
is $x$ is radians or degrees?
tell me that first.
Radians.
@Kasper But a thing like an equi tri? And that too on the top of the page?
@Sawarnik My guess is that it would be transcendental... Do you have an answer?
Misread it.
@robjohn We are searching for a proof :)
18:38
$\sin(x)$ is transcendental while $x$ is rational and not $0$, am I correct?
r9m
r9m
@robjohn Why do you think so ? :o
@r9m Natural behaviour of transcendetal functions
@r9m Why di yiu nit think si? :o
$\Bbb C(\exp, \log)$ is almost purely transcendental over $\Bbb C$, @r9m
@r9m I've just created something new ... $$\int_0^1 \left(\log(1-x)\log(x) \log(1+x)\right)^2 \ dx$$
18:40
@Sawarnik Better like this: euclidthegame.org ?
I feel like i'm about to post the most stupid question ever :3
@Kasper That's better :) Although you can make it a bit larger upto the text :)
r9m
r9m
@Chris'ssis :D .. is it difficult (for me .. I mean) ?
Did it, @Sawarnik.
@r9m It depends ... :-)
18:43
@BalarkaSen Orly?
math.stackexchange.com/questions/838789/… aww my most stupid question evar i guess :3
@r9m Give it a try and see. ;)
r9m
r9m
@Chris'ssis Is this mission torture the ignorant ? :P
@Sawarnik Like this ? euclidthegame.org
18:47
@Kasper Can we still cheat ? :D
@Kasper That's perfect in my opinion :)
@Hippalectryon Don't tell anybody else ^^
Have you thought of generating revenue at some stage? :D
@Hippalectryon How? :O
Straightaway jumping to Level 20?
@Sawarnik 'Have you thought of generating revenue at some stage' Pay him and he'll tell you :D
@Hippalectryon I didn't meant that -_-
18:50
I'm good at business uh :D
I don't think.
@Sawarnik I'm more interested in seeing people play it, than in making money. It is now played in 87 dfiferent countries. I think that is way cooler than a couple of dollars.
But you can send me money of course :D
Do you think it possible to make money from this ? You mean ads or something ?
@Kasper No, you can think of it, to get off your domain costs :) Maybe a little un-distracting ad or something..
@Sawarnik I think I still have some gaps. I will have to think more clearly later about this. I will try to sketch it before I go to sleep today. Bu-bye for now.
@BalarkaSen Bu-bye. But you are sleeping too early!
Confirm tomorrow for sure :)
18:54
Domain cost is 11 dollar per year. It has now 30.000 pageviews per day. (probably will drop).
I've no idea how much money a little un-distracting ad can generate with that amount of pageviews.
1 cent ? :D
@Kasper Oh, that's true. But just in case the game keeps improving, and people start coming...
:P probably
...maybe teachers will push their students towards Kasper's site and it becomes famous!
@Kasper But the domain cost is really cheap! :D
18:57
7000 dollar :O
@Kasper
lol
that can't be serious
That'a assuming 30k views/day
I would never have to work again :D
18:58
Surely you can generate 100+ dollars easily...so its worth it maybe!
Looks like an infectious diagram :c ^
I still need to conquer china and japan
'Math plague is spreading ...'
@Kasper Nice.
19:00
haha, which do you think is the smartest (highest average level ) ?
Me :D uh no
Faroe Islands
:D
from the 10 people that played it there, the average level they reached is level 16 :P
@Kasper You detect my proxy ?
:p
which city are you in ?
then I will track you
I m in Patna, do you know where that is?
:D
19:03
I'm supposed to be in Paris
@Sawarnik On the moon ? :P
No, that eastern dot in India :)
@Kasper How do you know?
@Sawarnik Lindemann-Weierstrass and the fact that $-2x+(1-i)e^{ix}+(1+i)e^{-ix}=0$ shows that $x$ must be transcendental.
Ooo.
@BalarkaSen
@Sawarnik well they visited on average 16 pages per session, they could have refreshed it a couple of times, but I don't think so, as their average time on the website is 45 minutes
I'm not 100% sure of course
@Kasper K now let's open LOIC :D
19:09
@robjohn Rob, could you help me here?
Page 7.
It says "In any graph the number of vertices with odd degree must be even. For this reason there cannot exist a red 5-regular subgraph of K9 or a blue 3-regular subgraph of K9."
@Kasper I think you should redirect euclidthegame.neocities.org to the new one .. but the comments are a problem .. but anyway.
If I take K9 and paint a K4 in blue and then everything else red, isn't that a blue 3-regular subgraph of K9?
@PedroTamaroff That is on page 7?
Ah page 4
@robjohn page 7 of the pdf, not the in-document paging
squares talking together
@Sawarnik yeah the comments are now at 2 places .. , actually the sites are the same, but disqus things they are not :P
the IP adress is the same of both sides
19:20
@robjohn Yes, page 4 of the numbered pages
@Kasper i'd do a level... if i knew the appropriate prog language :c
@Hippalectryon do you mean you want to create a new level ? you can use geogebra
@Kasper Uh ? How does that work ?
Last time i used geogebra was .... long ago
Well, if you are really intersted I can let you know. I've shared the javascript I use at geogebra here: github.com/kasperpeulen/euclidthegame
@Kasper Javascript isn't my language :/
19:24
@PedroTamaroff is a 3-regular graph one in which each vertex has degree 3?
@robjohn I think so.
Yes.
@Hippalectryon oh ok
Why doesn't anyone use lua or asm or python... oh wait no NO NO not python
the only thin you need to add the javascript is something like:
checksegment("nameofyourtarget","nameofyourmessage")
Ahh finally back to learning abstract algebra
19:25
@PedroTamaroff I've not done a lot with graph theory, and almost none with Ramsey theory, so I am not sure of the terminology... Trying.
and then use geogebra, to make this target, and make this message
How do i create a target ?
just like normal objects in geogebra, I mean if your target is a segment, just give this segment a label, like "target1" and then your done
@PedroTamaroff I don't understand the terminology to say... sorry.
@Hippa: We can make you the target, n'est-ce pas?!
19:33
@TedShifrin Like my meme ? :P
The least you deserve after your recent behavior!!
hi @robjohn, mr @Pedro
oh, hi @Alizter
@TedShifrin Hello.
@TedShifrin I think I've made a terrible mistake.
@TedShifrin hey there...
@Pedro: Are you being paranoid, as Mike was when he posted on Overflow?
Hehehe, dunno.
19:36
@TedShifrin hello :)
He basically wanted someone to tell him why some of the "abstract nonsense" in mathematics should be of interest. Some people took offense to his tone. I told him it was ok :P
@TedShifrin Not my fault, you were the one to make me rofl :3
@Pedro: I've never heard of this guy. Is there any reason we should care?
Just be thankful you're not in my class, @Hippa :D
@TedShifrin After what i've watched i'm happy not to be in it -_- too slow xD
:/
That being said, my current math class is too slow too
Too fast for most of my students ... and these are the top 0.05% of college students in the US.
19:38
Ew
What age are they ?
The class used to be 3 days a week; now it's 4, so I've slowed down a bit and inserted more examples and proofs.
Hmm ... 18, 19, 20, a few older.
Mostly first- and second-year university.
@TedShifrin No, not really.
I fear someone may have told me this before but how do you find who is most highly rated for a particular tag?
This course is taught at places like UGA, Yale, Stanford, Vanderbilt; harder courses at Harvard, Chicago ... but most universities don't even offer such a course for smart students. To be fair, the biggest challenge is the homework, @Hippa, so you're not seeing that.
19:40
I just want a good reason to disregard him compeltely.
@TedShifrin I have MY own homework already -_-
Why do you care, @Pedro? I have no problem staying ignorant about him.
I'm just saying, @Hippa, that homework is where I push the students ... and then, of course, there's office hours to prod them and help them.
@Hippa: If you pick more theoretical topics (like the proof of the inverse function theorem), you'll find it more to your taste.
@TedShifrin
@TedShifrin LEL, Mariano closed my question.
@Pedro: That guy is a formerly Jewish born-again wacko.
Good @Pedro.
19:42
@TedShifrin Oh and in France you don't really choose your topics like you can do in the US
:c
@TedShifrin I deleted it.
@DanielFischer How did you work that out?
@DanielFischer there must be a help page about this somewhere
I know, @Hippa. We have several different levels of courses for such material. Only the super math geeks take my course. (Or the ones who want to go do graduate work in economics or physics.)
@TedShifrin Why do I not live in the US :3 nuuuuu
19:44
@user2179021 On the questions/tagged/xyz page, there is a link top users. Clicking it brings you to the top users page of that tag.
oh I see!
thanks
But, as I discussed with @GTR earlier, I think, your universities get far more specialized than ours do. So people studying math are expected to be the serious math/science students. @Hippa
heya @DanielF
@TedShifrin Not false :) i guess i just like complaining :P
Heya @Ted and @Pedro.
So do my students, trust me.
19:46
@Hipp complaining is the meaning of life. Hey Prof. @Ted
Hey @Studentmath. How be you?
@DanielFischer Hello.
Do you know any graph theory Daniel?
@Pedro: Did Mariano scold you?
@TedShifrin We haven't talked in a long while.
I think he's very busy with something.
@TedShifrin After finishing my daily hours of work i still need to read all those bookmarked pages and the ones they link to i.gyazo.com/d5aed1c18c7ed1618c8cf9ffeaa28bec.png and then understand all the posts i have starred in MSE and other stuff... i guess I won't even have finished at the end of the next holidays :/
19:47
But I have no idea.
@PedroTamaroff Veeeerrrry little.
@Ted quite fine
@Pedro I will probably be very useless, but maybe I could try to help
@Hippa: I'm glad you're so motivated to learn.
@Hipp if I had the will you have..
<--- Will be glad when @Pedro gets back to multivariable analysis/manifolds :D
19:49
@TedShifrin I didn't enter a prep school for the exams lol, I entered it because i was interested in sciences
@Pedro if it's mostly graph theory, and not about planar graphs, I will probably be somewhat useful
@Hippa: I was being sincere, not sarcastic.
@Studentmath Downside : I wake up at 6:40 and go to sleep at 2 AM :/
@TedShifrin I know :)
@Studentmath I don't understand the following.
@Hipp same, only I sleep 70% of the interval inbetween
19:49
Suppose we have a $K_9$.
Olee Olee Chile Chileee
@r9m what are your feelings about the last integral? Does it have a cute closed form? $$\int_0^1 \left(\log(1-x)\log(x) \log(1+x)\right)^2 \ dx$$
@Studentmath lol
heya @N3
And we have colored it red and blue.
19:50
@Pedro okay.
I would be happy to teach you a ridiculously hard class, @Hippa :D
@Chris'ssis About $\sum\limits_{n\in\mathbb{N}^*}\prod\limits_{k=1}^n\zeta(k)$, did you find a closed form after i left yesterday ?
The text says, "Since in any graph, the number of edges of odd degree is even, there cannot be any 5-regular red subgraph, nor a 3-regular blue subgraph." But if we draw a $K_4$ all colored in blue and then compelete to a $K_9$ using red, don't we get a 3-regular blue subgraph?
@TedShifrin Meh i need to finish all my work for today :c
Number of edges of odd degree? @Pedro? Vertices of odd degree?
19:51
@Hippalectryon there was a mistake. It cannot be like that.
@Pedro first of all what Ted said, edges of odd degree?
You both know I meant vertices, come on.
@TedShifrin I still need to do both END math exams, some 2008 X Maths2 exam, etc before doing anything else :/
r9m
r9m
@Chris'ssis Is it supposed to have cute-closed form ? :D .. idk .. i'm working on $\lim\limits_{n \to \infty} \sqrt[n]{lcm\left(\binom{n}{0},\binom{n}{1},\cdots,\binom{n}{n}\right)}$ right now :-)
No, I was confused.
Ne te plains plus, @Hippa.
19:52
In Graph Theory you can't be sure, I've seen people defining what I know in so many different ways.
@Chris'ssis 'there was a mistake' in what I wrote there, or in what you posted yesterday ?
@TedShifrin I'm not complaining lol, I'd love to follow more advanced classes
@Hippalectryon Both.
@Chris'ssis So, what was the real one supposed to be ?
@Pedro is there some certain limit on the colouring? Obviously it can't be a perfect colouring, but anything else regarding the two-coloured colouring?
Page 4 says "Consider any 2 coloring..."
19:54
No, @Pedro: Your $K_4$ is only using some of the vertices, not all. What's the definition of $k$-regular? [I don't know **** about graph theory.]
@TedShifrin I think it means all vertices have degree $k$.
And it doesn't require that you use all the vertices?
@r9m I need to rethink it ... (sorry)
Then maybe I don't knwo what the hell they mean by a $3$-regular blue graph.
When they say "blue $3$-regular subgraph" I think a subgraph that is $3$-regular and all edges are blue.
Well, graph theory is very definition-heavy. You're probably right, but I'm just asking.
19:56
Well then, take $K_4$ and paint it all blue.
@Pedro I think that's rather standard, the definition.. trying to think why it won't work
Oh, Pedro, they colour the edges.
OK, so for a subgraph, we treat it abstractly as if it were a graph unto itself. So you seem correct, @Pedro.
But wait, still..
Go back to the beginning, @Pedro. What's the hypothesis on the big graph in the first place?

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