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17:02
@Sawarnik Okay, I will think about it...I will need to go for dinner...and I have to go for class tomorrow morning, so will see you tomorrow...thanks for the problem...bye
Ok bye :)
does this count as proof? $$x=1/2,y=~1.023558664839899,z=\phi, p=~-1.350692742455835$$
@MickL How did you get it?
Is it true that $\limsup_{n} \cos(yn) = 1$ where $n \in \mathbb{N}$, $y \in \mathbb{R}$??
@Sawarnik numerical methods (runs and hides) bisection specifically
17:13
@MickLH I meant why do you think its the only solution?
I don't
Then how its a proof?
I just wonder if something so simple can count as a constructive proof
Because you only said some real
I hope you understood what some meant there, even with my poor language skills.
Well it meant any.
I'm honestly asking to learn
17:15
@MickLH Besides it wasnt bisection, it was WA isnt it? :P
HI, I have to prove that for all integer $t^{2n}-1 \ge n(t^2-1)$. I tried induction but I have to prove (the last step) : $t^{2n+2}-1 \ ge (n+1)(t^2-1)$, and I don't see I can use $t^{2n}-1 >n(t^2-1)$. Someone has an idea please ?
Lol I used Maxima, I specifically set up $x$ and $z$, then had it do bisection for $y$ from 0 to 5
Then plugged the values into the other equation and it worked, which left me with $p$ as a side effect
@MickLH Ok, you wanna see the proof?
Yep :)
7
Q: Hard contest type trigonometry proof

SawarnikSuppose that real numbers $x, y, z$ satisfy: $$\frac{\cos x + \cos y + \cos z}{\cos(x + y + z)} = \frac{\sin x + \sin y + \sin z}{\sin (x + y + z )} = p$$ Then prove that: $$\cos (x + y) + \cos (y + z ) + \cos (x + z) = p$$ I am not even getting where to start? Please help.

@Nico Have you tried derivatives? Just guessing so dont take it seriously.
17:22
I like the brute force method
Ok :)
I meant the complex exponential one
The pure trig one is awesome but I suck at trig
@MickLH What things you like?
I really enjoy calculus
Indefinite integrals have got to be my favorite
Or if you meant it the other way, I love making music and coding, I do it all day as a hobby and for work
@MickLH Good, then a quick and easy q for you. Prove that if $f$ is differentiable on $[a,b]$, then there exists $x_1,x_2,...x_n$ such that $f'(x_1)+f'(x_2)+f'(x_3)+...f'(x_n)=0$.
17:28
Aw man can you define $f$ plz
@MickLH Do you like JS?
Yeah
@MickLH Any function which is is differentiable on [a,b].
oooh I thought you said prove it is lol
@MickLH Oh, good. Me just learned the basics once.
17:30
I think the proof goes the other way
@Sawarnik Yep, it seems worse ^^
I can construct a trivial case $y=x$, where the derivative is always $1$
18:22
@Hawk Heh... I answered and then got downvoted. Hilarious. >8(
@Hawk Granted Antonio Vargas's answer is valid for complex roots, but my answer is valid for real roots (as you seemed to be looking at in your question)
18:37
@robjohn Once someone dwnvoted all the good answers and upvoted the bad one, hilarious!
@JasperLoy Yeah, just hilarious
Probably someone with a little knowledge in math, but not too much, lol.
18:57
Greetings
hello :)
lol, I just took an IQ test and got a surprising result ... (maybe it's fake)
:14481048 if you get too invested in your answers and let the downvotes get to you, this site can get pretty depressing.
I can't be that smart.
IQ tests are all crap, lol.
18:58
@Chris'ssis you have to be, I got 200 on my last IQ test and some of your integrals shock me
@Chris'ssis this an online test?
@robjohn Yes.
@robjohn Here arealme.com/iq/ro I think you can use the English version.
@Chris'ssis All online tests are fake.
@Sawarnik At my last job the psychologist said I have around 140 points.
@Chris'ssis That is seriously good!
19:16
@Sawarnik She said: "I have to talk to your boss about that." as if it's something wrong being like that. It sounded like a danger.
It would be if you were a cop
@MickLH :-)
@Chris'ssis I just decided to take that test, it only gave me 160!
@MickLH hehe, nice. Anyway, it's a fake I think.
While I think these tests (IQ tests, not just online ones) are bullshit, my 200 score was from a "real" test
So if there's any correlation, I think you aren't giving yourself enough credit :P
19:34
I have to prove that for all integer $t^{2n}-1 \ge n(t^2-1)$. I tried induction but I have to prove (the last step) : $t^{2n+2}-1 \ ge (n+1)(t^2-1)$, and I don't see I can use $t^{2n}-1 >n(t^2-1)$. Someone has an idea please ?
@MickLH Wat!? 200? Its very near the maximum limit I think.
@Nico Why dont you put it in the main?
@Sawarnik because I just want an idea :)
@Sawarnik Well to be honest, it was 196 or 198, I'm not sure but its a few points below 200 even
But I guess it's high because someone commented that's basically stephen hawking zone
@MickLH What test it was? [Even Einstein had an IQ of around 170, but who knows Mick is truly an ...]
@Nico Write in your question that you just want an idea?
I don't know much details on the test itself, it was part of some psychology thing when I was younger
Also to be fair I'm an alien
3
19:41
You are? Gimme a proof.
lol might not be able to do that, at least I don't see a way, I didn't mean it like I literally flew here on a spaceship from outer space
Unless you want to get metaphorical, I guess
@Sawarnik Here, being an emotional thing, the closest I believe I will come to proving anything is this: secure.szifler.com/music/dwob_4.mp3 I just recorded it lol feel my emotions and make whatever judgement you want
@Sawarnik limit superior.
@Sawarnik You here?
Maybe.
I am thinking and thinking this question, math.stackexchange.com/questions/726387/… . And besides watching KFP-LOA.
20:03
@Sawarnik Have you tried the counting problem I gave you?
I had some problems with it I remember on some part.
[My laptop charge is very low and electricity is not here, so I may be off any moment.]
good luck!
@Sawarnik which part?
OK, gotta go byes.
20:22
From that IQ test I especially liked the squares test. It's so cute!
(the 16th question)
I love that!
I think that one was my favorite too
I don't get it :( @chrisssis
I gave a stupid answer on it, took me a while to realize my mistake
@skullpatrol Imagine you have 8 identical squares numbered from 1 to 8 and then you sequentially lay them down in the biq square. You need to find out which is the first square you laid down.
Number 7 is not a square?
20:28
@skullpatrol All are squares but there you have overlapped squares.
@skullpatrol All are the same as the square 1 you see on top.
Ooohh I see now. They are like pieces of paper being arranged in the given pattern, right @chrisssis?
Hey folks. Can someone advice on how to solve $15e^{5x}=5x+1$? If I take $\ln$ of both sides, I can get rid of the $e$, but am stuck with $x$ inside the $\ln$.
@skullpatrol Yeah! Overlapped papers!
@Chr
@Chris'ssis: 2 is at the bottom. it's under 4 and 5, at least
@Jeff No.
20:35
@Chris of course not. 8 is under 2, too
it looks like 6, 7, and 8 could all be on the bottom.
Is there a unique answer? @chrisssis ?
I need to make a model.
@Jeff Mathematica has a fun little function called ProductLog which I think is what you want
@skullpatrol Sure, only one answer, a specific order for all the squares. It's straightforward but one needs to use the imagination.
@micklh does it exist in Maple? Is it easy enough for a beginner to use? Also, supposed to solve this w/out a calculator.
Thanks for sharing that question @chrisssis
20:44
@skullpatrol Welcome. It's a pleasure to share nice things! :-)
21:20
@Jeff It's just that the solution isn't in the EL-field.
You need Lambert logs here.
@Alizter Hey.
If you have two spheres intersecting each other such that their centers are on each others circumferences. What is the volume of the intersection?
@BalarkaSen HEY
What do you guys get?
@BalarkaSen Did you see this one? (I think you like these ones)
@Balarka: i have no idea what the EL field is. I think I can assume that the HS teacher who gave this to my friend's son was mistaken when he said "no calculator".
oh and btw the only thing you know about these spheres are that they have the same radius r
21:27
@Chris'ssis Which one?
@BalarkaSen See above. Number theory. :-)
@Jeff Yeah... he had to be unless he wants them to do numerical methods by hand on paper
@Jeff Yes. EL is the smallest field generated by $\log$ and $\exp$
@Chris'ssis Of course not NT, but fine for me. 4, it seems.
@mick they haven't learned numerical methods yet (i think) and no reasonable teacher would expect someone to solve that by hand. possibly the kid copied instructions down wrong, too.
I gave an answer but deleted it because it was too high level for the asker, lol.
21:29
That seems more likely
@BalarkaSen and what do you mean by 'field'.
@jasper are you talking about my question? or another?
@Jeff Well, google it.
@BalarkaSen No, it's not 4.
@BalarkaSen yeah, i will :D
@Chris'ssis OK. I have to think a bit then. =)
21:30
@BalarkaSen OK :D
@Jeff Not you.
@Chris'ssis 6.
@chris: is it number 8? which is beneath 2 and 1, and probably 7 and 5?
@Jeff Yes, it's 8.
I see.
I don't see how it's beneath 7. (or even 5!)
21:32
@chris woo hoo! do i win anything?
@Jeff personal satisfaction :-)
Wait. I don't think it's 8.
@BalarkaSen Give a proof then. :-)
8 is not beneath 7.
Whereas 6 is.
@BalarkaSen It really is! It's an illusion what you see there.
21:33
@Chris'ssis I don't see how.
It seems 7 are 8 are side-by-side.
yeah, i'd like a formal explanation of the answer, too
Yes, they are side by side, so you have to get the data elsewhere
@Chris'ssis Ah, illusion's not Number Theory, silly girl =P
But still, fun thing they have there.
@BalarkaSen I give you my word it's elementary! Just put your imagination at work!
Show me how 7 and 8 are not side-by-side.
21:35
@BalarkaSen This is not important(actually) if you look at the big picture.
OK, dis : 8 is side-by-side with 7 and 6 is below 7 and thus 8.
How's this?
Why this argument does not work?
Wrong
Because your axiom is not provable
Ah, 6 could even be beneath 3, right?
Comparing 7 and 8 yields no information, because the information was lost in the projection
Hello, @Ted
21:37
I was under the impression that all the squares are fully inside the meta-square also
Hi @BalarkaSen
Otherwise I don't know how to prove it
@BalarkaSen A.
@BalarkaSen hmmm, no. Vice-versa I think.
@Chris'ssis WAT
@TedShifrin Have ta present someone the whole proof of PNT in all the way I know the day after tomorrow.
21:38
@BalarkaSen I mean 3 is under 6 (obviously).
Who's the someone?
A professor, you can say. Topologist.
@BalarkaSen You are attached to a prof on a special program?
"you can say"?
Hi @Jasper
@TedShifrin Well, he is a monk. Do you know of Canon-Thurston maps?
21:40
@chris i have to go soon. i wanna hear the formal answer to this.
He worked on those.
Me too, @Chris'ssis.
cannon maybe?
@TedShifrin Hi! Lee told me the second edition of his Riemannian Manifolds won't be out this year. I may need to wait another 2 years for it, lol.
@TedShifrin Yes. Cannon-Thurston maps.
The one I am talking about worked on those. Any chance you know his name?
@Jasper: it's really not that good a book.
21:41
@chris, how do we know that 8 is beneath 7?
@Jeff 8 and 7 are side-by-side obviously.
@Jeff @BalarkaSen OK, but it's pretty easy and funny. Wouldn't you like to work a bit more on it?
@Chris'ssis nah.
fuck lol sorry for the spoiler
@chris if they're side-by-side, how can you say 8 is on the bottom?
or is 8 just one of the ones on the bottom?
21:43
@Jefft The point is this: you have in hand the 8 squares of paper and put them down one by one. Think of it and you solve the question.
@Jeff the point is to find out the first square that was laid down.
Well I'm gonna go so here's a spoiler 8, 2, 5, 4, 3, 6, 7, 1 haha sorry SE chat ruined my idea
@MickLH PERFECT!
@chris i understand that. but if 7 and 8 are side-by-side, then we don 'thave enough info to know which was put down first.
@mick i didn't see the answer
@MickLH I am sure there are ambiguities on the problem.
@Jeff We do know.
21:46
I was using the restriction that all the sub-squares must be fully inside the main square
@MickLH WAT
I mean, assuming none of them "fall off the edge"
Oh, that.
@mick is that not the case?
Well without that piece of info I think the problem is ambiguous
21:49
@Chris'ssis Is it necessary that all the subsquares must be fully on that sublevel?
I was assuming otherwise, in which case it is ambiguous.
@chris are the pieces of paper allowed to go beyond the edge of the figure?
@Jeff No.
@Jeff No.
@BalarkaSen I mentioned the squares are all identical if this is your point.
@chris if 7 and 8 are side-by-side, then they are, by definition, both "at the bottom". that's what the figure is asking. i'm afraid i don't get it
Nope, not that.
OK, let's just leave it.
I am not yet convinced why this is unambiguous, though.
21:51
$A<B<C$, is $A<C$? :P
@Jeff The idea is to find the first square of paper that was placed down.
@mick i get that, but if 7 is beside 8, then 7 is not below 8
Not necessarily
@chris i get that, too. seems to be the same thing. so i still don't see why 8 is the answer
Side by side only tells nothing, it doesn't give an explicit "no"
21:52
I don't get why "8, 2, 5, 4, 3, 6, 7, 1" is unique.
@MickLH Then we are thinking of different beasts, lol
Lol well I figured we must be, now I'm just trying to figure out what problem you guys are trying to solve :P
My assumption was that all subsquares of a certain pice of paper are on the same sublevels.
But I don't think I can really make you understand here what I was thinking of =P
@TedShifrin I am trying to work out a sieve problem. Can you help?
@chris if 7 and 8 are side-by-side, then you can put 8 down, then 7, then the rest of the pages in the correct order. or you can put page 7 down, then 8 (they're next to each other) , then the rest of the sequence.
@chris if page 6 is under 7, but over 8, then page 7 and 8 are not side-by-side. 7 is "over" 8 (even if it doesn't overlap 8).
Hi everyone, I'm having a hard time with compactness in topology. Is the subspace of rational numbers in the usual space of real numbers compact?
I know rational numbers aren't locally compact, but are they as a whole compact?
@chris anyway, i have to go now, so either email me the answer (if you can) or i'll have to live without it.
and thanks for the answer about my prob. all
22:00
@Jeff you are stuck at the same point. Try to make up inequalities with those numbers to easily see what happens.
@chris, i'm stuck at how 8 can be at the bottom if they are "side-by-side".
@chris if @blarka's answer -- 8,2,5,4,3,6,7,1 -- is right, then 7 and 8 are not side-by-side
@chris no inequality is going to help me here (plus, I am leaving).
bye all.
Not my answer, dude.
@David Every compact space is locally compact.
@Jeff hey that's my answer :P
@Jeff OK, bye.
22:02
@Chris'ssis Dis $$\displaystyle \int_0^\infty \frac{\log(1+x^2)}{\sqrt{(1+x^2)(2+x^2)}}dx=\frac{2 \sqrt{2} \pi ^{5/2}}{\Gamma \left(-\frac{1}{4}\right)^2}$$
@DanielFischer, but does the converse hold?
@BalarkaSen Cute.
Now we're talking!
Can you prove that without AK-47s?
Well, whoops. I mean if a set is not locally compact, then it isn't compact correct?
That would be right by contraposition, so the rationals are not compact.
@David No, $\mathbb{R}$ is locally compact, for example. But yes to your last message.
22:04
@BalarkaSen :-))) I don't know. It's not friendly.
To show the rationals are not compact then, I would have to show that an open cover of the rationals does not have a finite subcover. What would be the best step into this direction
Whoof, I barely managed the last through very heavy guns. This is mad : $$\displaystyle \int_0^1 \frac{\log(x)}{\sqrt{1-x^2}\sqrt{x^2+2+2\sqrt{2}}}dx=\frac{\Gamma \left(\frac{1}{8}\right) \Gamma \left(\frac{3}{8}\right)\sqrt{1+\sqrt{2}} }{8 \sqrt[4]{2} \sqrt{\pi }} \left\{\frac{\sqrt{2}-1}{4} \log \left(2+2 \sqrt{2}\right)-\frac{2-\sqrt{2}}{4} \pi \right\}$$
@BalarkaSen Indeed.
@David Easiest is to exploit the fact that the rationals are unbounded, $\{(-k,k) : k \in \mathbb{N}\}$.
@Chris'ssis @BalarkaSen Get a load of this $$\int_0^1\frac{x^9\left(x^4+x^2-x-1-5\ln x\right)}{\left(x^{10}-1\right)\ln x}dx=\frac12\gamma+\frac{11}5\ln2-\frac52\ln\sqrt{5}+\frac12\ln\pi-\frac12\ln \phi $$
22:07
Well, might be tedious, but doesn't seems quite hard.
Not as hard as that, at least =P
yessss thank you
But still, MAD
I love that $\phi$ symbol
@Alizter I think I can do yours in an elementary way.
Ah, so because the rationals are unbounded, they are not compact, because to be compact you must be bounded.
22:08
@Chris'ssis Yiss.
Easy thing.
Lots of partial factorization stuffs with $\log$-ed weights.
@Chris'ssis It uses this fact
$$\frac{\Gamma\left(\frac15\right)\Gamma\left(\frac25\right)}{\Gamma\left(\frac{‌​1}{10}\right)}=\frac{\sqrt[5]2\,\sqrt\pi}{\sqrt[4]5\,\sqrt\phi}$$
I have to goes, bye.
@BalarkaSen BYE!
Also, I found this the other day, it's my new favorite expression for the golden ratio: $$\phi = e^{{\it ArcCsch}\left(2\right)}$$ if you want to inject some fun looking complexity into many mundane things
$$\left(\cot\int_{-1}^1\frac1{4\pi x}\sqrt{\frac{1+x}{1-x}}\log\left(\frac{2\,x^2+2\,x+1}{2\,x^2-2\,x+1}\right)\ \mathrm dx\right)^2=\phi$$
@MickLH How about that
22:12
oh come on that's cheating
@DanielFischer Ah, so because the rationals are unbounded, they are not compact, because to be compact you must be bounded.
@David iff
lol integration operator makes it not a closed form in my opinion (and! it's harder to remember)
@David Yes. Another way to see it is that a compact space is complete, the rationals aren't.
@MickLH I have trouble unforgetting some formulae (that one for instance)
22:15
@DanielFischer what does it mean to be complete?
@Alizter well thanks for infecting me :P
Nevermind, I got it.
@David For metric spaces, every Cauchy sequence converges. For uniform spaces, every Cauchy filter converges.
@MickLH Make some trivial quartic with phi as one of the solutions then use the general formula to obtain it
thats a big (and closed form!) expansion of phi
Sounds like my recreation time
22:20
Bach I need to learn some German
exams don't pass to easily
and probabally some discrete mathematics
I completely failed the mock exam because I knew close to nothing
@PedroTamaroff Let $f: \Bbb R \rightarrow \Bbb R$ be smooth. Prove that $f(x^{1/3})$ is smooth iff $f^{(n)}(0)=0$ for $3 \nmid n$.
I don't want to do that. =D
Isn't it just a matter of computations?
A satisfactory response.
@PedroTamaroff I would have thought so, but it actually confuses me (because I'm not just doing it on paper probably :P)
@Mike I think this works.
$$\frac{f(x^{1/3})-f(0)}{x}\to \frac{f(h)-f(0)}{h^3}$$
Now do L'Hopital.
You get $f'(h)/(3h^2)$.
Since $f'$ at $0$ is zero you can LH again.
And then again.
Since $f''(0)=0$.
Ahhh, that's better.
Yeah, that'll work.
22:30
This generalizes obviously to $x^{1/n}$.
You need a good $\mod n$ behaviour.
Right, it's clear how this would behave for arbitrary $n$.
Same proof.
23:01
http://math.stackexchange.com/a/725513/84522
would some be able explain how this is true
$ (|x - a| + |a|)^3 < (2|a|)^3 $
23:13
@Surya Expand the binomial.
ah thank you. I am stupid.
He uses that $|x-a|\leqslant |a|$, too.
23:27
Hola, @PedroTamaroff
@DanielFischer Hello Daniel!
How is it going?
So-so, @Pedro. I know I am an id...t. I just haven't yet figured out whether the missing letters are "io" or "ealis".
@Chris'ssis It obviously is not accurate >8(
@DanielFischer Oh, what's going on?
=/
@robjohn You got a good score though! :-)
23:31
@PedroTamaroff I try to guide people to find the answer by hints. People jump in and post a complete solution. And get lots of upvotes for that.
@DanielFischer Link? At any rate, anyone who has a bit of brain can see the level of your answers are usually over-average. If someone cannot, I wouldn't worry about him/her. =P
@PedroTamaroff I hint in comments ;)
@DanielFischer Yes, that is characteristic of you, hehehe.
I sometimes do it too.
@DanielFischer It's simple to construct examples of $L^2$ distributions that are $C^k$ and don't come from $C^k$ functions. (Integrate a discontinuous $L^2$ function $k$ times, say, to get a $C^{k-1}$ function that gives a $C^k$ distribution.) Are there smooth distributions that don't come from smooth functions?
@PedroTamaroff The annoying thing is that homework spoilers reap a lot of rep.
23:34
@DanielFischer I usually call out those people.
They kinda harm the OP. =/
@Mike Sorry, I have a problem with your terminology. What does "come from a $C^k$ function" mean here?
@robjohn There I misunderstood 2 questions or so and that's why I think I chose the wrong answers. The test also measures the out-of-the-box thinking. (of course, not accurately, but it's a kind of measurement there)
@DanielFischer I'm talking about distributions on $\Bbb R$. I can induce a distribution $f^*(\phi) = \int f(x) \phi(x) dx$. I say a distribution is $L^2$ if it's representable in this manner by an $L^2$ function $f$; I say it's $C^k$ if its first $k$ distributional derivatives are also $L^2$; I say it's smooth if distributional derivatives of all orders are $L^2$.
@Chris'ssis I don't think I got two of the questions, but I'm pretty sure I got the rest.
@Mike Aha. I would have thought $C^k$ means $k$ times continuously differentiable.
@Mike Anyway, if all distributional derivatives are in $L^2$, the beast is a $C^\infty$ function.
(up to modification on a null set)
23:48
I thought as much - thanks.
@Chris'ssis I don't think this answer had anything wrong. I acknowledged and upvoted the better answer, but I think my answer was good for the OP since he originally wanted real methods (then someone else changed tags).
That might not be another in a string of downvotes I've gotten recently
@robjohn are you again downvoted? Gezzz, what kind of people are around?
@Chris'ssis the downvote is still there, but It has another upvote. But it looks okay? I wonder if I've missed something.
Multiplying by $x-1$ is something I didn't think to do...
But now that I've seen it, I probably won't forget it :-)
@robjohn I'm looking at that now.
@robjohn I saw something similar given on an uni exam. I need to search for that.
(or maybe exactly the same question?)
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