« first day (590 days earlier)      last day (2697 days later) » 

16:08
@JoonasIlmavirta The problem with this thinking is that Cicero routinely translated Greek terms into Latin, and in his speeches he deliberately avoided them. Not sure if you can see this page or not: books.google.com/…
16:22
@RetractedAndRetired Just as we avoid English loan words today.
@ktm5124 I read about it in other newspapers too!
Now if only they had a pill...
@RetractedAndRetired If Cicero thought that Greek loans should be avoided and one should translate terms to Latin instead, wouldn't that be a good argument for translated versions being better style?
Of course it's a matter of debate whether Cicero can unilaterally define good style.
@Cerberus Well, I dunno, I suppose that's a propos, but voila, I'm always amazed when I come across some new bon mot.
@JoonasIlmavirta Depends on what you mean by good style. Good style for what type of writing?
He didn't avoid Greek in his personal letters.
@RetractedAndRetired Oh, I see. That's very interesting.
@RetractedAndRetired Frankly, I didn't have anything specific in mind.
He avoided Greek, somewhat, in his philosophy because his project was to "translate" the works into a dialectic that Romans could understand, and for oratory, Greek is avoided there to appeal to more and more common people.
I believe my earlier point was that I didn't find any occurrences of the Greek words in question in Cicero, so in this case there is no difference.
But perhaps those are words he wouldn't have used in letters.
@RetractedAndRetired That makes sense. His letters, aimed at his well educated peers, had no need to avoid Grecisms.
If that's a word.
16:30
I didn't see anything about what point anyone was making. I simply saw that one line and thought I'd make a comment on it.
It is indeed a word.
@RetractedAndRetired Sure, no problem. That line in the chat was related to an answer of mine, where I ended up being somewhat against Greek loan words.
@RetractedAndRetired Très bon.
@RetractedAndRetired But also because preserving Latinitas involved limiting loan words, surely?
@Cerberus I don't think it had anything to do with Latinity per se, but rather putting a Roman spin on Greek concepts. It'd be as if we never called it a burrito, but a "Mexican wrap", vel sim.
It's a way of getting ideas across in a native language.
16:34
Well, an aversion of Latinity is even now common in good English writing.
Of course we're well beyond any ability to avoid Latinate words altogether.
But 'use Saxon where possible' is not an uncommon adage.
Just as one tries to avoid too many or the wrong loan words in all other languages I know.
I have no idea about Greek.
I think what loan words it had in its golden age were so old nobody knew.
Like hyacinth and such.
@Cerberus I wonder though how that would relate to Cicero's style in his letters, where there is no such aversion.
Yes, that is quite interesting.
And as with any interesting question regarding Cicero's language, it's worth exploring in a question or two on the site.
I have to say, though, that one generally pays less attention to formal stylistic conventions in e-mails than in novels.
Let alone Whatsapp.
What about in emails to a superior?
16:41
I always try to write complete sentences and good language in WhatsApp.
Although I don't avoid the good ol' Latin roots as strictly as others advocate.
@RetractedAndRetired I was about to add the same. Although more than superiors, writing an email to someone in a high position whom I don't know and have to ask a favor of makes me extremely careful.
@RetractedAndRetired More formal, but not literary, not held to the highest standard.
Aren't we then conflating "good style" or "literary style"?
@RetractedAndRetired You don't eschew those roots as fully as others call for?
16:44
One would never attempt to substitute ordinary, literary language for common speech.
I actually may have used some Latin there...
Speaking of loan words, I came across the pages of a certain Finnish university today, and they were a horrible hybrid of Finnish and English. Either language alone would have been fine, but the combination was unbearable.
@Cerberus I don't flee from them as swiftly as others do.
@JoonasIlmavirta Anglicization is getting out of hand.
@RetractedAndRetired Hmm it seems I did succeed! Without looking anything up.
And so did you, no doubt.
@JoonasIlmavirta Yeah, a sign of the times.
@RetractedAndRetired I have to star that.
@RetractedAndRetired It sure is. I understand if the schools of the university are called "schools" or "koulut", but the Finnish plural of the English word, "schoolit" was a shock.
16:47
@RetractedAndRetired They are indeed not the same, but they share many qualities, depending on culture and context.
@JoonasIlmavirta Hehe. Horrible indeed.
@Cerberus For sure / Indubitably / Certainly
And the menus are a mixture of the two languages.
@RetractedAndRetired I think all of those are Latinate...
As a professor once taught me: Choose whatever you want, but stick to it consistently.
Securus, dubius, certus?
@JoonasIlmavirta Absolutely.
And preserve your culture.
You can only throw it away once.
In some contexts, mixture is good and/or necessary.
16:49
@Cerberus I'm not sure all people realize they have a culture to begin with.
In others, it is not.
@JoonasIlmavirta Alas.
@Cerberus Construed as a Finnish word, that confused me.
"alas" = "down"
@Cerberus You're right! I was thinking English, Latin loan, and French loan, but the first is also French.
Though both certain and sure are old enough to avoid that anti-Latin proscription.
It's not all Anglo-Saxon, but the best of the Middle English as well, I do believe.
(All of those, besides proper names, should be Anglo-Saxon, but not "proper" here.)
17:06
@RetractedAndRetired Mm it depends!
 
2 hours later…
19:05
@Cerberus Interesting!
@Cerberus Also interesting.
Ave, @JoonasIlmavirta!
Ave!
How do you feel about the quarterly best answers meta award thingy we've had a couple of times?
I think it's great although I must admit I don't pay too much attention to it.
Few people do.
I'm probably self-absorbed so I pay attention to answers to my own questions.
That's why we've been wondering whether or how to continue it.
19:09
For example, Penelope gave a great answer to my question about word spacing, I remember that.
You gave a really good answer to a question of mine about Roman calendars.
Ergo the answers I remember are answers to my own questions ^_^
@ktm5124 There's nothing wrong with recommending an answer to your own question.
Right.
I don't really have much moderator savvy, so I'm not sure if my opinion would be helpful.
Penelope sure writes some great answers.
She does!
@ktm5124 Everyone's opinion is helpful. It's a community thing and doesn't require any particular knowledge, just sharing what you like.
19:11
I see. I suppose my opinion is that, I, personally, probably won't pay much attention to the quarterly best answers, but I'm not sure if that applies to everyone. We all have different inclinations.
If it were annual, I think I would.
Because 3 months go by so quickly and we all have busy lives, that revisiting best answers 4 times a year might be a bit too much to sustain interest.
@ktm5124 One option is to try semiannual.
Or sesquiquarterly.
Semiannual might be good.
But I think that annual is the threshold at which I personally would be interested.
I worried that if the event is too rare, people would forget about it and have not interest. But it could work the other way, too.
Yeah. And I'm just one person. Maybe the majority of people would prefer semiannual.
The last one was pretty low activity, so semiannual might be a natural next step to try.
19:15
You could post a poll on Meta about preferred frequency.
And if anyone strongly wants to have rewards for the third quarter, we can do that easily.
@ktm5124 I anticipate the poll would not attract much attention.
Our meta has been very quiet, and I'm not sure how many people follow it at all.
But meta activity is secondary. As long as the main site is popular, we're good.
Sure.
Semi-annual could be the natural next step.
I can't help wondering if anything happens sesquiquarterly. I quite like the word.
We could even make a theme for it based on the Proserpina myth. "Best answer during Demeter's joy" and "Best answer during the Proserpina's stay in Hades".
Because you know, that too is semi-annual.
That'd be a fun twist!
When does it change?
19:20
I suppose the best answer during winter receives a pomegranate as a prize.
And the best answer during summer receives a bountiful harvest.
I think so. Could make a good question!
@ktm5124 How do we award that?
"On what day did Romans believe that Proserpina returned from the underworld?"
@ktm5124 Hmm... Could indeed. But it's a mythology question now. Perhaps asking for a passage on Ovid or what have we?
19:22
@JoonasIlmavirta It could just be in the title of the thread, or somewhere in the body of the thread, which awards the best answer.
@JoonasIlmavirta Yes, maybe if we ask for Roman sources.
@ktm5124 Sounds like a good one. I'll upvote if you ask.
If we ask for an actual passage from classical Latin that verifies the cutoff day.
OK, I might ask today.
You're well on your way to a Socratic badge.
Gratias!
Necesse est mihi egredior — ad tabernam cafeariam.
Diem iucundum habeto!
19:30
Et tu!

« first day (590 days earlier)      last day (2697 days later) »