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1:08 AM
Can you suggest some textbook for solving such problems?
is it Frenet derivative?
 
the main 'tool' here seems to be the definitions, i dunno what to say
verifying that a given thing is indeed the derivative is a tiny bit simpler than finding that thing in the first instance
maybe someone knows of a book
 
It is the Frechet derivative. You can compute it via partials since everything is nice and smooth.
 
@copper.hat Can you suggest some textbook from basics to advanced
 
1:25 AM
Not aware of one. Also, the notation above is different to what I am used to, I would write the derivative of $x \mapsto a^T x$ as the mapping $h \mapsto a^T h$, or more usually in matrix notation, $a^T$.
 
okay
From where did you learn these stuff?
 
1:56 AM
Let $f:\Bbb C\to\overline{\Bbb C}$ be a meromorphic function, such that all its poles are simple with integral residues. Then there exists a meromorpihc function $h:\Bbb C\to\overline{\Bbb C}$ with $f(z) = h'(z)/h(z)$. This problem is really neat.
 
2:54 AM
@Unknownx i just accumulated the knowledge over the years.
 
@Uninown @copper It’s not quite the Frechet derivative. It”s transposed. This the geometric algebra that’s become the rage lately.
 
urrgh
 
You can search the site for questions like this literally dozens of times.
 
I would call it the gradient assuming some Hilbert surroundings...
I wonder what perspective geometric algebra opens up?
 
There are questions that I’ve been rebuked for answering “wrong.”
It’s more complicated than just transposing.
 
3:12 AM
i have no clue.
i gather from Mr Google that it has some connection to the Physics world...
 
4:13 AM
Okay. thanks
 
0
A: $\prod_{n=1}^{\infty} (1- z/ a_n) $ is entire iff $\sum_{n=1}^{\infty} 1/(z-a_n) $ is meromorphic

one potato two potato@dezdichado gives the only if direction. If $\prod_{n=1}^\infty \left(1-{z\over a_n}\right) = :f$ is entire, then taking logarithmic derivative we get $${f'(z)\over f(z)} = \sum_{n=1}^\infty{-{1\over a_n}\over \left(1-{z\over a_n}\right)} = \sum_{n=1}^\infty {1\over z-a_n}.$$ Since the LHS is mer...

I wrote the solution. Can someone please check if it's a correct arguement?
@Jakobian Would you please check?
 
 
2 hours later…
5:55 AM
@onepotatotwopotato how did you conclude that the series converges uniformly on compact subsets not including the poles, and that $z=0$ is not a pole?
One direction holds ground but I'm not sure about the second part of this
 
6:06 AM
@Jakobian Actually that's the part I'm worring about. First, if $z = 0$ is a pole then it implies $a_n =0$ is allowed but then the infinite product doesn't make sense because it contains $z/a_n$. For the absolute and uniform convergence, since the given meromorphic function is analytic at $0$, I can choose a small nbd near $0$. I think maximum modulus principle implies the convergence.
 
6:41 AM
Today, I'm spending time on Ramanujan's solution to the STAND puzzle
 
Why?
 
Baby bird eats what mama (here, yt) feeds it.
 
then baby bird will grow up to be a you tuber
 
Anyway, see his shirt, Taxi 1729, that's the Hardy number. Do you recall why that number is special?
 
i am allergic to watching videos. ubpdqnmathematica.wordpress.com/2021/12/05/… relates the problem to a pell equation and gives a continued fraction without saying too much how its convergents have anything to do with the problem.
nick, everybody knows that.
everyone except hardy
 
6:58 AM
hardy was a different type of mama bird to Ramanujan
More importantly, did Ramanujan grow up to be like hardy :P
 
@leslietownes Dev Patel looks a lot like Jeremy Irons if you consider they both have features like eyes, nose, face on their face.
 
whenever i need inspiration, i just remind myself that when ramanujan was my age he had been dead for ten years
 
I'm done, I see no children here.
@leslietownes leslie, save the jokes for comedy night.
lol
 
it is no joke
 
in certain lights, dev patel does kind of look like jeremy irons
 
7:01 AM
only the good die young
que billy
 
If I open blender with python, I can maybe think of light as a mathematical object. So can be the faces of Irons and Patel.
@user147593 morituri et mathematique
goodbye
 
cya pal
 
 
1 hour later…
 
6 hours later…
2:39 PM
0
Q: Maximum number of distinct elements in matrix of size $p \times p$, given for any row/column, there are $\le p-1$ distinct elements.

EnEmProve that for any given prime $p \ge 5$, there doesn't exist any matrix of size $p\times p : [x_{i,j} | i,j\in \mathbb{Z}, 0\le i,j \le p-1]$, such that $\forall i_0, \exists j_1, j_2 (x_{i_0,j_1} = x_{i_0,j_2})$, i.e., for any row $i_0$, there are $\le p-1$ distinct elements in it $\forall j_0...

 
 
2 hours later…
4:44 PM
Can you use tools from differential geometry to study zeta functions?
 
4:54 PM
For $g$ analytic near $0$ we have a linear map between $g_t(x)$ and $\sum_{n\ge 2} (g_t(n^{-s})-g(0))$ and you can find one from the other, ie. (restricted to the correct space of Dirichlet series) there is an inverse which is linear as well.
Since we can essentially recover a zeta function from $g_t(x),$ can we generalise $g_t(x)$ itself and then try to connect its generalization to a higher dim. zeta function?
and by generalizing $g_t(x)$ I mean generalizing it from a collection of curves to a collection of surfaces, and maybe having a linear map from each surface to a higher dim. zeta function
and maybe if the collection of surfaces, the disjoint union, forms a geometric structure like a riemannian manifold, you could use techniques from geometry and prove things about the manifold, that may translate to proving things about zeta functions
 
5:51 PM
Can anybody remind me how to activate MathJax for this Chat room? It just to work before on my computer (Mac OS 11) under Safari.
 
It is in the room description.
 
On the announce: LATEX in chat: tinyurl.com/cfqcvpc
 
@XanderHenderson Thanks Xander. I click on the link but how to I make it active? I did create a bookmark and click on startChatJax, but I don't see things being rendered on this page (on my end)
 
On Chrome you literally drag the link. No idea on Safari.
 
5:58 PM
Are you clicking "start ChatJax" on this page of chatroom?
 
Where is the "start ChatJax" on this page?
 
No, I mean, you open the bookmark on this page.
This is a javascript code, and it should be evaluated on the page where you need ChatJax.
 
Or you can also copy paste any formula you want to read onto the ask a question panel.
 
You can first try pasting the link of "start ChatJax" in the location bar (which begins with javascript:(function()) and press Enter.
 
@Yai0Phah: at the risk of sounding computer illiterate, how to open the bookmark on this page.
 
6:05 PM
This is browser-dependent, but it should be the simplest way (instead of opening the bookmark in another Tab).
 
Safari for example...
 
I don't use that, so I can only comment on the "philosophy".
 
If I know that random variables (X_i) are i.i.d. and in $L^1(P)$ is it then true that $E(X_i|X_1)=E(X_1|X_1)$?
 
I use Safari, among others. I have the ChatJax bookmark in my bookmark bar. When I'm in chat, I click on that and ... presto.
 
@TedShifrin: got it! thanks!
 
6:09 PM
@Overtherainbow Surely $E[X_k|X_1] = X_k$ for $k \neq 1$? And surely $E[X_1|X_1] = E X_1$?
 
Great :)
 
Do you read Russian papers? I am trying to paste the OCR to Google Translate.
 
I have read a few many decades ago but it was mostly equations and I knew the general area. I really liked the old style of Soviet writing in the continuous parameter optimisation arena.
 
@copper.hat I know that the second equality is true but I'm not sure with the first one.
But I think that we can prove it using the definition and it should be straight forward right? @copper.hat
 
@Overtherainbow First guess, then verify.
 
6:13 PM
I think the first one is true and I know that the second one is true. Is my guess correct?@copper.hat
 
The main issue is figuring out what is measureable with respect to $\sigma(X_1)$.
 
So I mean $X_1$ is clearly measurable with respect to $\sigma(X_1)$
 
The second follows immediately from the definition.
 
right thats clear. but the first one can also be proven right?
 
I read very few Soviet papers, but it seems that most of them are without proof, or the proofs are extremely succinct.
 
6:17 PM
@Overtherainbow What functions are measurable with respect to $\sigma(X_1)$? This is the essence of conditional probability.
 
@copper.hat ah but does this proof for the first statement makes sence? $E(X_kZ)=E(X_1Z)$ is always true since the $X_i$'s are identically distributed. But since this holds for all $Z$ measurable the equality I wrote tells me exaclty that $E(X_k|X_1)=X_1$. Is this ture?
 
Whoa, where did you get that first statement from?
 
sorry which one do you mean?
 
The one with $Z$ in it.
 
this is the characterization of the conditional expectation
 
6:20 PM
@Yai0Phah That was my experience as well, although it goes back about 30-40 years now.
@copper.hat Why do you have an E on one right-hand side, but not on the other?
 
@copper.hat Reading your reaction again leads me to the point where I think my proof is wrong
 
@TedShifrin Thanksm you caught a huge mistake.
@Overtherainbow I goofed badly.
$E[X_1|X_1] = X_1$ and $E[X_k|X_1] = E X_k$.
 
Huh?
 
@copper.hat hmm I don't get it now
 
Now you're inconsistent the other way.
$E[X|Y]$ is another random variable.
 
6:28 PM
If $X_k,X_1$ are independent then it is easy to check that $E X_k$ is a version of $E[X_k|X_1]$.
 
@TedShifrin shouldn't it be without expectation on both RHS?
 
@Overthe Yes, I believe so.
 
@copper.hat but $E(X_k|X_1)$ is a random variable and $E(X_k)$ is a number?
 
It is easy to check that $X_1$ is a version of $E[X_1|X_1]$ (It is $\sigma(X_1)$ measureable and $\int_A X_1 dP = \int_A X_1 dP$ obviously).
 
I don't know what "a version of" means.
 
6:30 PM
@copper.hat Yes I agree with this one
 
Hold on, I can't type fast enough.
$E[X | \cal F] $ is any random variable $Y$ that satisfies $Y \in \cal F$ and for all $A \in \cal F$ $\int_A Y dP = \int_A X dP$.
Any such rv is called a version.
Sorry about the first mixup, off in decaf land.
 
@copper.hat: $Y$ is a version of $X$ if $P[|X-Y|>0]=0$.
 
@copper.hat but shouldn't it be $E(X_k|X_1)=X_k$?
 
@OliverDíaz I'm just quoting Durrett
 
I have never heard of this version definition.
 
6:34 PM
@OliverDíaz I have never seen that characterisation.
 
pops popcorn
 
But Is my proof above about this statement $E(X_k|X_1)=X_k$ wrong? I use the the definition that if $B\subset A$ is a subalgebra and $X\in L^1$ then $E(X|B)$ is the unique random variable such that for all $Z\in L^\infty$ $E(XZ)=E(E(X|B)Z)$
 
@Overtherainbow No, note that $E X_k$ is $\sigma(X_1)$ measurable and $\int_A (E X_k) dP = \int_A X_k dP$ for all $A$ that are $\sigma(X_1)$ measurable (the last is the catch).
 
That is what in probability one means by saying this process is a version of a specific random variable $Y$. Sometimes one uses version to denote a process or r.v. that has certain properties, i.e. a version of Brownian motion. In the context of $E[X|\mathcal{A}]$ usually one means a random variable $Z$ (defined in the same space as $X$) that has the properties that you quoted above. Of course $Y$ is not unique but all versions differ only by a set of measure $0$. You know this any way...
 
@Overtherainbow Think about it intuitively, knowing $X_1 $ tells you nothing about $X_k$, so the conditional expectation is just the expectation.
 
6:40 PM
@copper.hat but where is then the mistake in my proof?
 
I'm still confused how sometimes $E[X|Y]$ is a number and sometimes it's a random variable.
 
@TedShifrin it is always an rv, it just happens to be a constant in the above case.
 
Ah, I see.
 
@copper.hat okey I see it also but I still to not see where I made my mistake in the proof
 
@Overtherainbow How did you get $E[X_k Z] = E[X_1 Z]$???
 
6:47 PM
@copper.hat ah I see this does not follows from the fact that the $X_k$'s are identical distributed?
 
Does identically distributed mean that $X_i = X_k$ a.s.?
 
No sorry it means that the distribution is a.s. equal right?
and since we can't characterize the random variable using the distribution my claim is wrong
 
@TedShifrin It means $P[X_i \le \alpha ] = P[X_k \le \alpha]$ for all $\alpha$.
 
@copper This time, my question was "socratic" :)
But thanks!
 
@Overtherainbow To make the $Z$ assertion you need some conditions on $Z$.
@TedShifrin Ooops, sorry
 
6:54 PM
@copper.hat so Z should be $\sigma(X_1)$ measurable and bounded
 
This stuff is highly confusing, so clarifying for everyone is great :)
I was trying to remember if I came up with an example in my probability course of different random variables with the same distributions. Not sure.
 
The $\sigma(X_1)$ part is crucial.
 
@Overtherainbow The classical definition is very opaque and does not lead to immediate intuition, but it much easier to work with in my opinion.
 
because $E(X_k|X_1):=E(X_k|\sigma(X_1))
 
6:57 PM
Because $EX_k$ is $\sigma(X_1)$ measureable but $X_k$ is not.
 
@copper.hat is this because $E(X_k)$ is a constant (so \sigma(X_1) measurable) and $X_k$ not, in particular you can't find a measurable function such that $X_k=f(X_1)$?
 
hbbhptpht
 
Oh, Munchkin is awake.
 
@leslietownes I'm confused is my answer again wrong?
 
i don't know. my phbpbhtph was not responsive to your comment.
i was venting a generalized bphtphbt at the universe.
 
7:04 PM
@leslietownes ah sorry
 
i feel like actually i should be the one apologizing.
 
nods
 
@Overtherainbow A nice characterisation is that if $X,Y$ are rvs. then $Y$ can be written as a Borel function of $X$ (that is, $Y=f(X)$) iff $\sigma(Y) \subset \sigma(X)$.
 
this fact comes up in our favorite thing, the radon-nikodym theorem.
 
forget what I wrote.
 
7:11 PM
@Overtherainbow I would write Suppose $A \in \sigma(X_1)$, then $X_k, 1_A$ are independent and so $\int_A X_k dP = E[X_k \cdot 1_A] = EX_k\ E 1_A= \int_A (E X_K) dP$.
Yep, I think Radon Nikodym should be taught in Kindergarten.
 
@copper.hat ah I see perfect thanks!
 
That means the change of variables theorem must be in kindergarten, too.
 
@Overtherainbow I am not a huge fan of Durrett's writing in PT&E (a little too concise for my liking), but the part on Conditional Expectation in the Martingales section is a nice summary.
 
@copper.hat thanks I will look at it!
 
@TedShifrin Indeed :-) Albeit I would go with the probabilist's version of change of variables: $E f(X) = \int_f(y) P_X(dy)$.
 
7:17 PM
So probability and measure theory are covered in pre-school?
 
I forget that kindergarten thing. Is that some decomposition into absolute continuous part and singular part?
 
A colleague from a long time ago argued that Radon Nikodym should be taught in undergrad as the definition of conditional expectation. It came up in one of my many rants to @leslietownes
 
As long as I get to do Gauss Bonnet in kindergarten, too.
 
@Overtherainbow There is a 'geometric' (meaning $L^2$) interpretation of all of this stuff that may help with intuition, personally I found it unsatisfactory.
 
Ha! @ geometric = L^2.
 
7:20 PM
We only learned Sard in junior infants (as our first year of formal education was called then).
@TedShifrin Loose interpretation of geometric :-)
 
It seems everyone is doing conditional probability these days. Just posted.
 
Saw it, almost answered, but was afraid of being suspended again. (jk)
 
my daughter can count up to 50 but still doesn't know the radon nikodym theorem.
 
whoa, i needed chocolate to get to 5
does she like lego?
 
leslie That's clearly a lack in your tutelage.
 
7:32 PM
she does like lego.
 
hmm, pity you are not nearby
 
"Nearby" just depends on your choice of metric.
 
:-) can dump boxes off in under an hour :-)
 
@copper.hat right so the one that we can think about the conditional expectation as a projection?
@copper.hat but I mean you can't really think about it because the space is quite abstract or maybe I'm to "stupid" to think about this geometrically
 
7:47 PM
@Overtherainbow Personally it seemed a bit contrived. I think that looking at the 'normal' notion of conditional expectation is a more fruitful perspective.
 
anyone here have a knack for integral surfaces?
 
no sry, all my surfaces are nicked.
 
@copper.hat Yes I had the same thoughts, it's nice to see that there is such a way to think about it but I mean one really needs to understand this definition and work properly with all this "ugly" stuff
 
@Overtherainbow The definition will seem 'natural' after a while. Somewhat akin to the first encounter with the definition of a topology :-).
 
@copper.hat I hope so because at the moment it is still quite difficult to work with it
 
7:53 PM
I do not understand why lecturers & books do not focus more on what it means to be measurable with respect to a function. Doob is the only well known text I am aware of that deals with it.
 
me neither
 
What is measurability with respect to a function?
 
A random variable (function) induces a $\sigma$ algebra. The one generated by $X^{-1}(U)$ for $U$ open, for example.
 
So these are not necessarily open.
Interesting.
 
(staying quite quiet in case another smack arrives.)
 
8:03 PM
I was wondering about the measure $f\,d\mu$ when $f$ abs. cont. different notion.
I have to leave soon, so I’ll miss the rest of copper’s class.
 
I need to change the headlight in one of the cars.
 
Careful not to use your fingers.
 
It would be very interesting to watch someone trying to change a headlight without using fingers.
 
You take the Borel $\sigma$-algebra on the target $\mathbb R$? In other words, the pullback of a negligeable set might not be measurable?
 
8:28 PM
i had doob's potential theory book at one point
great writer
 
8:55 PM
$W(x,y,z)=\big(x\log x,-y\log y, -z\log z\big),$ for $0<x,y,z<1.$ Can this vector field be written as a pde? Like this?: $$ \dot x=x\log x $$

$$ \dot y=-y\log y $$

$$ \dot z=-z\log z $$
 
 
2 hours later…
11:03 PM
I'm back. Having read a bit on approximation theory just now, I can say that I'm looking for a way to represent a comonotone approximation with the least information as can be possible according to some arbitrary general representation specification capable of representing more than one object.
 
11:35 PM
@robjohn one is supposed to handle halogen bulbs only begloved.
 

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