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5:00 PM
but I was kind of hoping to not introduce anything else, and just use the functions that I have at this point (because I have relations for those functions)
 
Have you first done an exercise on algebraic curves to know that you can always clear denominators?
 
but I'm not working with a curve
 
Are your notations not the same as the pictures you're showing?
 
I know. But that's a good warm-up to understand.
It seems like you want to multiply by the least common multiple of the denominators.
Did you try that?
 
@Astyx Ehh, I did deviate a bit. Sorry if that's confusing. So I used $h_i$ instead of $\psi_i$
 
5:02 PM
@Astyx Be careful to remember that I can kick people from this room as easily as Ted can ;-)
 
@Astyx: And there's no $\Phi$ in there that I could see.
 
@TedShifrin What do you exactly mean though?
 
and $\phi_i$ instead of $f_i$?
 
"I can clear denominators... in which case?"
@Astyx right, yes, that too
 
@robjohn: No, lest people not understand: You are omnipotent and I am a mere nothing.
 
5:03 PM
That's what's most confusing to me
 
I like to use f,g,h for polynomials, and $\phi$ or $\psi$ for rational functions
sry, should have mentioned that
oh wait
@Ted you mean
 
Your component functions have denominators, @Sha. You want to clear them all out, so multiply by the least common multiple and you'll have all polynomials now.
 
that I can do what I want to do in the case of curves
well, I basically already showed that, even in the general case
 
The curve case is easy to understand (and there is no such thing as base locus) because you have a single variable.
 
hence my remark: if $\phi$ is regular at $P$, then $\Phi$ is regular at $P$ too, and the values coincide
aka, it's okay to clear denominators
I'm going the other way around now tho
(or maybe you meant it in the other way too?)
 
5:05 PM
So forget all this ridiculous notation. Say in words precisely what you're trying to show.
 
@robjohn :S
 
I'm trying to show that the rational map with the cleared denominators coincides with the original map, on points where it is regular
 
As a map to projective space, of course. This is just my original comment, nothing more.
 
and I'm trying to find the 'right' rational function to multiply the original map with
 
Unclear the denominators.
 
5:07 PM
oh, maybe I see it
 
If $f\phi = \Phi$, then $\phi = \frac1f\Phi$.
 
because, the relation in the second definition
tells you exactly that if you divide the $i$-th component by the $j$-th component, the fractions for both representations will be equal
I think... let me have a look
you might have put me onto sth
 
I didn't say anything deep, obviously, but maybe you were missing the obvious.
 
@TedShifrin yeah, not like I'll talk about anything hard
 
@Thor: It's hard enough. There's a large learning curve for complex geometry.
@Astyx @Sha: I apologize for jumping in and interfering. :)
 
5:10 PM
No need for that x)
 
@Astyx: Have you learned about linear systems and base locus?
 
@TedShifrin Moderators are just janitors with bejeweled names.
 
Yes, but, like janitors, you have keys to all the rooms in the palace.
 
hehehe
 
It's interesting to look up some MSE superstars on RateMyProfessor. You'd hope that being on this site for ages would improve teaching skills.
 
5:21 PM
@TedShifrin I know of some people whose teaching maturity has suffered here. I could not find them on that site, however.
 
tbh, I still don't know which map to multiply with
so I have $f\phi=\Phi=[h_0,\dots,h_n]$
where the second equality is only an equality on the level of rational maps
and we evaluate $\Phi$ via the $h_i$
I want to multiply $\phi$ by a rational function $r$, s.t. $r\phi(P)=[h_0(P),\dots,h_n(P)]$
 
Forget $P$. Why are you doing that?
 
$f$ doesn't work, because $f$ is polynomial
 
No, something makes no sense here.
 
Because I want to check that $\phi$ maps $P$ to the same point as $\Phi$
 
5:26 PM
Why? It should work everywhere that things are defined.
 
Well, we extend the domain when possible
so if we have a rational map consisting of rational functions, $[\phi_0,\dots,\phi_n]$
then if there exists some rational $g$ s.t. $[g\phi_0,\dots,g\phi_n]$ is defined
at a point $P$
 
No, $g$ is a polynomial.
 
no, $g$ is rational
 
You're not going to introduce more poles.
 
I'm talking about the first definition
 
5:27 PM
Why introduce more poles?
 
because we only care about the point $P$
 
I do not like your text.
 
me neither
 
If $\phi_i(P)$ are all defined, we're done. Suppose one of them is not. What are you going to do?
 
then you look for a rational function $g$
and if $g\phi_i(P)$ is defined
then you can extend
I've already checked that this is well-defined
 
5:29 PM
@TedShifrin I don't much care for the cut of your jib.
 
so I'm actually OK with that definition, conceptually
it's just that I'm trying to show that this definition is equivalent to the other one given, where we've cleared denominators
 
Let's do a concrete example.
It's idiotic for $g$ to be rational here.
 
the reason they choose it rational, is because they want to product to remain rational
 
How am I going to make $(g\phi_i)(P)$ defined? I'm going to have to remove the stuff in the denominator of $\phi_i$ that vanished at $P$.
Duh, if I multiply rational by polynomial it's still rational.
 
ye, but that's the reason they choose a rational polynomial
because they want that
 
5:31 PM
You need to work a concrete example.
 
they defined the regular functions to be the rational ones that are homogeneous in the numerator and denominator, and of same degree
 
So that means that to clear up the problems at $P$ we introduce new problems at lots of $Q$.
$P$ and $Q$ are terrible letters for points, since we're working with polynomials.
 
but that doesn't matter, as we only care about the value at $P$
It's sort of like this: we've defined the rational map for many points already (a dense open subset), and now we wonder where we can extend
 
All right. So what is the issue? Well, with curves we always can and with higher dimensions we cannot always.
 
I can't figure out which rational function to multiply with, having picked a regular point in the case where I cleared denominators
I want to see that the definitions coincide
(on the points where we extended the domain)
So the setting is: I have a rational map $\phi=[\phi_0,\dots,\phi_n]$, I multiply by the common denominator, say $f$, and I obtain $f\phi=\Phi$. I assume that $\Phi$ is regular at a point $P$, so we have some $[h_0,\dots,h_n]$ that can be evaluated at $P$
(such that $\Phi_i h_j=\Phi_j h_i$)
 
5:35 PM
I see. So the issue with what I said is that $1/f$ won't be rational of degree $0$ (equal degrees to numerator and denominator).
 
yes
so I was wondering: maybe $X_i^d/f$ will work then, but
for some $i$ where $P$ doesn't vanish at that coordinate
 
Yeah, so you just need a polynomial with the same degree as $f$ that does not vanish at $P$.
 
or, no, not that
I will need to invoke the $h_i$
 
this seems pretty intuitively obvious, but I'm not sure how to prove it, if $X$ is a manifold and $SX$ (suspension) is a manifold, how do I show $SX$ is a dimension higher than $X$?
 
Why?
You're talking topological manifolds, @porridge?
 
5:36 PM
I'm assuming now that I'm in the case where $f\phi$ vanishes in each coordinate at $P$
 
sorry , yes, topological manifold
 
so... I believe I need to invoke the $h_i$ to find the 'right' rational map
 
would computing local homology groups be a possible route?
 
@Sha If every component vanishes you may be in trouble. This is what I keep talking about when it's not a curve. You may not be able to define the map.
 
That's why we have the $h_i$
so on the level of rational maps, we have $\Phi=[h_0,\dots,h_n]$
 
5:37 PM
@porridge Ugh. Is it not clear that away from the cone points you have a cylinder $X\times (-1,1)$?
 
and the $h_i$ don't all vanish at $P$
 
So your only issue comes at $\pm 1$? There you use a different chart.
 
no, yeah the $X \times (-1,1)$ thing is clear to me
 
So that gives you charts with one more dimension.
 
actually, that already proves it no? Since you can't have opens $U,V$ in $\mathbb{R}^n$, $\mathbb{R}^m$ resp. homeomorphic unless $n=m$
 
5:40 PM
@porridge Yes. If you're granting that it's a manifold and don't have to build a chart at the cone points.
 
and we have a bunch of opens in $X \times (-1,1)$ that we concede are obviously homeomorphic to $\mathbb{R}^{dimX + 1}$
 
Right.
 
fortunately im allowed to assume $SX$ is a manifold yeah
okay cool, yeah that makes sense, thanks :)
 
New day, feeling fresh. And ready to continue the math journey..........just poppin' in to say hi. Hopefully no difficulties like yesterday.....although I still got a couple challenge problems to do..............
 
I don't like something in your definition, @Sha. You're saying $\Phi_i h_j = \Phi_j h_i$. But shouldn't $\Phi_i/h_i = \lambda$ be the same for all $i$?
Howdy @dc3rd.
Happy new day. Don't forget life lessons learned yesterday :P
 
5:43 PM
novelty and no stubborness are the words of the day
or phrases.....or whatever the grammatical object is.......this isn't my forte
 
Stubbornness (as in not giving up) is necessary, but not in the context of refusing to change one's approach when the given one fails.
 
SX is almost never a manifold, though
 
Topologically, @Thor?
 
yes
 
I know that if it is one then $X$ has to have the same homology as a $dim X$ sphere
 
5:45 PM
@TedShifrin it could be that $\Phi_i$ is the zero polynomial, right?
 
in fact, X has to be a sphere
 
which probably limits it some
 
actually, uh
 
up to homeo?
wow
 
yes, this is much harder, though
 
5:46 PM
Hmm ... my brain has slipped that cog.
 
you can prove it's homotopy equivalent to a sphere using some homotopy theory, if you know the Hurewicz and Whitehead theorem, and then you can quote the Poincaré conjecture
 
interesting, is it a famous result?
 
@Sha, the answer is: If $\Phi_i$ is the zero polynomial, so must $h_i$ be. Rewrite my silly ratio as multiplication. $\Phi_i = \lambda h_i$ for $\lambda$ nonzero.
 
as in does it have a name I can google
 
I'm used to thinking about cones as varieties, I confess, @Thor.
 
5:48 PM
nah, it's just an aggregation of other results that do have a name, but this fact in and of itself is not of independent interest outside of curiosity
I worked this out based on a sketch Balarka gave me a couple months ago
 
Sorry for my sloppiness, @porridge.
 
ah okay, fair enough
i didn't notice any , what we went through is still valid isn't it?
(even in light of showing we were really working with $X$ a sphere)
 
yeah, if it's a manifold, it has dim(SX)=dim(X)+1
 
@TedShifrin Hm, that can't be, because
 
Yes, what we said was valid.
 
5:50 PM
@Thorgott cool, i've sort of just 'finished' the homology part of hatcher, are the results needed to prove this in hatcher too?
 
if each $\Phi_i$ vanishes at $P$, then each $h_i$ will also vanish at $P$
 
@Sha If the ratios are different (as you're suggesting), how do you end up with the same point in projective space?
 
this probably holds always true if you think of them as varieties like Ted would
it also holds true if you think of them as stratifolds
@porridgemathematics if you're willing to accept the Poincaré conjecture on faith, yes
if you want a proof of the Poincaré conjecture, that's a lot
 
@Sha: This is what's called a base locus. The rational map cannot be extended across such a point.
 
ah okay, poincare conjecture... thats the millenium problem right?
 
5:51 PM
Unless you're working with a curve, in which case you can factor out a power of $(x-a)$ from each term and then you'll have something nonvanishing.
 
the only one thats been solved
 
@TedShifrin Let me reread my proof, because I actually spent some time trying to show this today
 
I would urge you to write down a concrete example and play with it.
 
yeah
well, the Millenium problem was specifically the Poincaré conjecture in dimension 3
this needs the generalized Poincaré conjecture, i.e. in all dimensions
but 3 was the hardest dimension
 
Well, here is an example
they multiply by polynomials until they find an expression which works
 
5:55 PM
:/ sounds way out of my depth
 
note that $[X+Z,Y]$ is not regular at $[1,0,-1]$
while $[-Y,X-Z]$ is
and they define the same rational map by definition, since they satisfy these relations
 
anyone here know much about statistical mechanics / stationary distributions / reversibility ? My question is at the most basic level why are non-reversible dynamics "better for simulations"?
 
yeah, it's a very deep result
 
@Sha: OK, interesting example. One cannot always do that, however.
 
figuring out that such an X is a homotopy sphere is instructive and not too difficult, however
 
6:01 PM
I think it is possible. I'm just tweaking my proof for a trivial case where stuff is zero. One sec, brb
 
@monty my answer to that question is no, but from hazy memories of a slightly different subject (noncommutative dynamics from purely the math point of view), i don't know that anything is 'better,' but many systems simply aren't reversible so you wouldn't just choose model them reversibly.
also if you're studying anything resembling an average in space or time, that's tossing out the info you'd need to back the system up.
also on a computer, unless the floating point is perfect, which it isn't, nothing is truly reversible. that may not be true in specific problems but it's a vibe.
 
@leslietownes thats a funny one
 
eventually we all wind up in a black hole, or something.
 
w.r.t floating point I dont think thats what im getting at. No i'm pretty sure ive seen people perturb reversible systems to make them irreversible for computational benefit. I dont really know ahah was just wondering.
 
people do all sorts of weird stuff.
 
6:15 PM
i prefer to perturb people, not systems
another vibe is that once you begin really optimizing a computation for one thing or another, goofy things can start to seem normal and normal things can start to see goofy. and it might be highly specific to the application. i don't know that but i heard that from a numerical PDE guy.
 
this is how religion starts
 
Was school invented or discovered?
 
yes
 
6:33 PM
ah okay
 
well, maybe
 
6:50 PM
@geocalc33 school has been there since parents took children on hunts
 
@robjohn Why is the bot making this post active after 10 years? It's really annoying.
 
someone edited the TeX
although why the editor of the TeX saw it may be the real mystery
 
Oh, there seem to be low-rep people going around editing ancient posts to improve their reputations? Annoying.
Michael Hardy is high rep. Bizarre.
"typo fixed"
Ugh.
Sorry for bothering you, @robjohn. I slink away silently.
 
7:06 PM
@TedShifrin Heh... "I came across this post lying dormant on some online forum." Now it has been lying dormant here for 10 years.
Until now
 
Yes, right. Whence my peevedness.
But I've been noticing an inordinate number of moribund posts being resurrected. I complained to you a week or two ago, I realize.
There was something you said we should post on meta. Was this it? My memory is apparently shot.
 
Apr 9 at 3:09, by robjohn
I believe that all the mods on this site will undelete and leave messages regarding this, but I don't think that anyone will be suspended for this. Perhaps if they repeat the behavior they might be.
 
Alrite Ted, I wrote out the proof for well-definedness
I agree with you that it's not always possible to extend, btw
but when it's possible, then this definition makes sense
Let $f=[f_0,\dots,f_n]$ (not necessarily defined at $P$), and let $g=[g_0,\dots,g_n]$ and $h=[h_0,\dots,h_n]$ be defined at $P$, s.t. for each $i,j$, $f_ig_j=f_jg_i$ and $f_ih_j=f_jh_i$. Since $g$ and $h$ are regular at $P$, there exist $i,j$ s.t. $g_i(P)\neq 0$ and $h_j(P)\neq 0$. We want to verify that $g(P)=h(P)$. Note that (by definition; this isn't written explicitly, but it should be), $f\neq 0$, so for some $k$ we have $f_k\neq 0$. Now note that since $f_k g_i=f_i g_k$, we have that $f_i\neq 0$, and therefore since we also have $f_i h_j= f_j h_i$, we have that $h_i\neq 0$. Since we a
 
Regarding the deletion of questions that have been answered
 
OK, good :) Now we're both happy! :)
@robjohn Oh, as in blocking the OP from doing it. Yeah.
 
7:10 PM
yes
 
Sorry for all the confusion I introduced, @Sha, but I'm proud of you for persevering!
 
I appreciated the discussion! That helped me persevere x)
 
I don't think I've ever posted my own query on meta, @robjohn.
@Sha Yes, so of course it's the usual thing that you must have some $f_k\ne 0$ to have a well-defined point in projective space.
 
28
Q: Request for a tag for homework hints/evolution rather than solution

Ted ShifrinI realize this is not a new topic. But I've noticed that I'm not the only one getting really frustrated by the standard behavior here. Some of us teacher types are willing to engage the OP in a conversation with hints and progress on the part of the OP to developing his own correct solution. But ...

 
LOL, thanks for showing me up, @robjohn. That was shortly after I'd joined MSE, in fact. And here we still are with that one.
 
7:12 PM
So either 9b) is as tricky as 9a, or I am thinking out the box. It is the claim that "If $F$ is the set of frontier points of $S \subset \mathbb{R}^{n}$, then the set of frontier points of $F$ is $F$.

I have a shortish proof for this: Towards contradiction suppose the set of frontier points of $F$ is not $F$. Then that means $F$ is either the interior of $F$ or $F$ is the exterior points of $F$. Using the interior of $F$, this would mean that we are looking at the interior of the set of frontier points of $S$ which is empty. Which is a contradiction (but then again that would only be the
 
@robjohn Ron Gordon was one of the people who used to annoy me, too.
 
I gave the post an upvote even though it is 7 yrs old...
 
Where did your second sentence come from, @dc3rd?
 
I knew that would be the fault....
well it came from reasoning that either a point is in the interior, complement or is a frontier point. Since I said $F$ is not a set of frontier points it has to fall in the other two categories.
 
A point must fall ... not the whole set. And I will suggest here that some of our discussions yesterday (not $\Bbb Z$ and not union of open intervals) might be worth revisiting.
 
7:20 PM
ok. I'll go do that.
from my pictures I've drwn it looks true, now a matter of formalizing it.
 
Hmmm, what other sets did you suggest yesterday when we were playing with 9a?
 
7:42 PM
maybe thinking rationally will make the frontier real?
 
@dc3rd The usual trichotomy is the interior of $A$, the boundary of $A$, and the interior of the complement of $A$.
 
ha...I just got to thinking of the rational numbers.......

So.........if we take the rationals as a subset of the reals.....the frontier of the rationals is the reals...........now based on earlier work I established that the frontier of the reals is empty....so there is my contradiction
 
bingo
 
I'm confused by @robjohn statement.....I'm sticking with my reasonsing, but there is something deeper going on....
Ted really enjoys making people think so hard they end up getting blood from stones....
and again it came down to drawing pictures...... :p
 
@dc3rd not contradiction — counterexample to my query, yes.
 
7:49 PM
yes it is a counterexample.....I'm going to have to gradually wean myself off of the paranoia of expecting profs to be tricking me.
well that went smoother than yesterday :)
 
@dc3rd If they are going to be tricking you, it will involve a bucket of water over a doorway.
 
what is the boundary of $[0,1)$ as a) a subset of the reals and b) as a subset of the plane (reallly $[0,1) \times \{0\}$)?
just torturing you
 
I was expecting a pop quiz from you to be honest.....
 
living on the frontier...
 
for a) $\{0,1\}$

b) $[0,1)$ itself
 
7:57 PM
what about the lower limit topology?
i don't know why i'm doing this. never mind. :)
 
gotta freshen up on Munkres to recall the topologies @leslietownes try back in July for that
 
a) correct. b) not quite.
 
hmm
In my mind I'm imagining a ball around every point in $[0,1)$ and as a consequence they all satisfy the frontier defintion because anything not on the axis will be considered a point not in the set....what am I missing?
disc* as you prefer to use
 
$[0,1) \times \{0\}$ is certainly contained in the $\mathbb{R}^2$ frontier.
in general you have to consider every point, not just points in the target set.
 
@TedShifrin Yes I think so too. But in the image I uploaded before seems like it's true
I'm misunderstanding something but I don't know what part I'm
 
8:09 PM
$\{0,1\} \times \{0\}$ how's that @copper.hat ?
ugh...i'm forgetting everything around it though...
 
well, read my last comment (or rather the first sentence of my last comment).
 
Wasn't $F$ Homogeneous itself to start with? I'm not sure I ever saw the context?
 
@dc3rd the point of the last question was to illustrate how the ambient space affects the frontier.
 
Yes but why $F(x_1,...,x_{n-1},x_n) = x_n^{\text{deg} F}F(x_1,...,x_{n-1},1)$
What is $x_n^{\text{deg} F}$?
 
That’s wrong. It should be $F(x_1/x_n, x_2/x_n,\dots,1)$.
Write out an example.
 
8:15 PM
Yes but $x_n$ is an element of a ring so I'm not sure I can write $x_1/x_n$. It doesnt matter?
 
Had to think about it for a minute, but I see what you mean I believe @copper.hat . To make sure it is clear. $[0,1) \times \{0\}$ is the frontier of itself because everything surrounding it will also have elements in the set.
 
you are still missing a point.
 
We're not doing polynomials with indeterminates?
 
I don't know if I wrote it clearly though, but in my mind I'm picturing that interval in $\mathbb{R}^{2}$ highlighted, oh....I think the point you're specifying I'm missing is $1$. But more formally $[0,1) \cup \{1\} \times \{0\}$
 
that is a very awkward way of specifying it :-)
 
8:19 PM
How should I have written it?....lol
 
what is $[0,1) \cup \{1\}$ in a shorter format?
 
I mean...$[0,1]$..........shrug
 
:-)
 
it's coming to tea time for me.....
 
I didn’t fight this battle yesterday, but I should have.
 
8:20 PM
which battle?
 
The one copper just fought and won.
 
enjoy your t!
team effort
 
i just started in on my tea.
 
Not to mention your s.
 
i said the thing about the lower limit topology, which if being honest was probably what sealed the deal.
 
8:21 PM
i'm on my $n$th cup, $n \ge 7$.
pervert
that was for leslie.
 
you did win yesterday Ted, took some time...but you won....you're the all star trainer so you're expecting Mayweather level performances, when sometimes I've given you amateur level....
 
@dc3rd opinions may vary here, but i think focusing on closures is more productive. then frontiers.
 
@robjohn last time I posted a request for a homework hint, someone went ahead and gave me a[ complete solution ](math.stackexchange.com/q/4029016/879366)
 
Closures are something I do need work on , they messed with me for awhile....just need to unravel the definition when examining them
 
those are amazing diagrams.
 
8:25 PM
@AndrewMicallef Sorry about that. Or were you referring to the other answer that claimed to be a hint? I thought that sufficient time had passed that an answer would be okay.
 
@TedShifrin I tried by substituting $x_i/x_n$ but I can't eventually get what I want
 
robjohn is the resident mse picasso
 
but if you try sometimes you eventually get what you need
 
The proof written there is a proof of noether's normalization lemma for infinite field (actually exercise in A&M)
 
@dc3rd frontiers are closely related to closures. one (equivalent) definition (which i prefer) is that the frontier is the closure of the set intersected with the closure of the complement.
 
8:27 PM
just read up on that one
 
it is more abstract, but i find it easier to work with (not that i have much call for working with frontiers).
 
I'm sure I'll encounter the equivalency of all these things eventually
you don't use closures in your work?
 
wait, what? (i don't either. i also prefer that definition)
 
it is not hard to establish. the important point which @robjohn alluded to earlier is that there is a partition into the interior, frontier and exterior (interior of the complement).
 
from what you have spoken I could imagine having to restrict some sort of energy conduction in a chip by using the closure of sets.......
the trihcotomy of a point
well with my almost zero understanding of your field....
 
8:30 PM
:-). only for papers.
 
always in theory never in the nitty gritty
 
reality has much more grunge.
 
@robjohn i was just ribbing you, sufficient time had passed that I was not even considering vectors anymore when your answer came in
 
But I think I figured it out
 
Also iirc your solution was outside the bounds of the question anyway ;)
 
8:36 PM
@AndrewMicallef It used components in a rotated coordinate system.
 
You did get the right idea, @Andrew. Rotation.
Never use components. I forbid it!
 
I'm pretty sure I had a dream (which may have been a nightmare) in which calculus was the punchline. I was in a vehicle that was in the process of tumbling through the air, and a fellow passanger asked why we hadnt hit the ground yet, and so i took a derivative and answered their question (it made sense in the dream)
 
helllo, i have a problem
 
Haha, avoiding components, except for when I am working with well defined specific vectors
 
Let $(E,d)$ be a complete metric space $f:(E,d)\to (E, d)$ a map such that there existe $n\in\mathbb{N}$ with $f^n=f\circ f\circ \cdots \circ f$ satisfy
$$
\exists k\in\,]0,1[,\ \forall x,y\in E,\qquad d\big(f^n(x),f^n(y)\big)\leq k\, d(x,y).
$$
 
8:42 PM
in other words, $f^n$ is a contraction.
 
how to prove that f has one fixed point
yes
so $f^n$ has a fixed point
x
 
suppose $f(x)=x$, $f(y)=y$, then show that $x=y$. you need to apply yourself and $f$ many times.
 
but how
we don't have
d(f^2(x),f^2(y))\leq k d(f(x),f(y))
 
maybe you could use $n$ somewhere? if $f(x)=x$, what is $f^n(x)$?
 
@Vrouvrou: If $f^n(x)=x$, then $f^n(f(x))=f(f^{n}(x))=f(x)$. Uniqueness of fixed point I(for a contraction) means that $f(x)=x$
 
8:51 PM
all yours :-)
 
I want to prove uniqueness of the fixed point of f
@OliverDiaz
 
@robjohn did you use tikz for the figure (i kinda want to know how to make nice arrows like yours)
 
Any@Vrouvrou: A fixed point of $f$ is a fixed point of $f^n$. Since $f^n$ (some $n$-fixed) is a contraction the result should follow...
 
@AndrewMicallef no, those are done with Mathematica
 
9:14 PM
@OliverDiaz so we don't need to prove that the fixed point of f is unique ?
if we want to prove it how to please ?
 
9:37 PM
@Vrouvrou: the uniqueness of the fixed point of $f$ follows from the uniqueness of the fixed point of $f^n$. If I recall correctly, you assumed that $f^n$ was contraction for some $n$; hence $f^n$ has a unique fixed point. From that I showed to you that $f(x)$ is also a fixed point of $f^n$ and so, it must be that $f(x)-x$. As any fixed point of $f$ is a fixed point of $f^n$, $x$ will be the unique fixed point of $f$,
 
10:00 PM
Suppose $f(x)=x,f(y)=y$. Upper bound $d(f^n(x),f^n(y))$ using the contraction and show that $x=y$.
 
@robjohn I just reread that meta post of mine. Boy, isn't it all the more relephant these days!!
 
10:29 PM
hello people I forgot most of the vector calculus is there any good review resources for that?
 
Question about a counterexample to the nested interval theorem @TedShifrin so a counter example would be the open intervals $I_{n} = (0, \frac{1}{n})$ another example would be $I_{n} = (1 - \frac{1}{n}, 1 + \frac{1}{n})$.

I'm curious as to what is trying to be shown in this question from the main site then? I don't see it taking any different assumptions than your's

https://math.stackexchange.com/questions/3716576/nested-intervals-theorem-a-special-case-on-open-intervals
actually the second example would fail as a counter example....
 
surely the intersection of the latter is $\{1\}$?
 
yes, that's why I corrected myself
 
Since that is a compact subset in all of them.
 
just left it up for posterity's sake
oh...I see the fault in my reasoning.....I was thinking it had to be an absolute claim.
 
10:34 PM
Suppose $f(x)=1/x^2$ and $g_k(x)=kx$ for parameter $k\in \Bbb R_{>0}.$ $g_k(x)$ maps onto itself as $k$ increases. The transformation maps a point on $f(x)$ to another point on $f(x)$. How would you write down this transformation more mathematically?
 
So it's not necessarily the case that the interesection of nested open intervals will be empty, but because it is possible for them to be empty I cannot claim they will always be non-empty.
 
it is a sufficient condition, not necessary.
 
got it.
 
10:53 PM
@TedShifrin There are those on the site (some of them moderators) that think the site should be a Q&A repository, with complete "well-posed" questions and only complete answers. Then there are those who think we should be helping those who need help now and are willing to give hints and spur thought in the question askers. I think that there should be both, and perhaps tagging is the way to separate the Q&A repo from the tutoring hints and suggestions.
Maybe I will "correct a typo" in your post.
 
LOL
I did give in today. I had give sufficient hints for a competent student working with doCarmo, but this guy wasn’t and explicitly asked for a solution. So I edited with 99% of a correct solution.
 
Okay I figured it out. It's: $(x,y)\mapsto (ax,\frac{y}{a^2})$ for parameter $a.$
 
@TedShifrin The horror...
 

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