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8:01 PM
Is there any part of this which needs more specific info than what's stated, e.g. abelian-ness and such. Mind you, I forgot everything I knew about group theory. I had to learn again that one cannot quotient away just any subgroup
"is taking quotients functorial in both arguments" is probably a more appropriate question
and does it commute with direct sums in both arguments
 
the concise algebraic way to state what you want to state is that $\dots\rightarrow C_n\rightarrow C_{n-1}\rightarrow\dots$ and $\dots\rightarrow\bigoplus_{i\in I}C_n^i\rightarrow\bigoplus_{i\in I}C_{n-1}^i\rightarrow\dots$ are isomorphic chain complexes, where the chain maps are precisely the isomorphisms you give first
the commutativity of the resulting diagram is the same as saying that $\partial_n$ in the first chain complex corresponds to $(\partial_n\vert_{C_n^i})_{i\in I}$ in the second chain complex
then the result follows since isomorphic chain complexes have isomorphic homology groups
which is an immediate consequence of homology groups being functorial
 
Yeah the clearest thing to do is to write $f: \bigoplus_{j \in \pi_0 X} C_\ast(X_j) \to C_\ast(X)$ by $f = \bigoplus_{j \in J} (i_j)_*$. Each $(i_j)_*$ is a chain map, since it's the induced map of a continuous map. This is surjective since every singular simplex in $X$ lies in some $X_j$.
 
Thanks!
 
Injectivity seems more tedious using this language, probably best to just construct a map back the other way
 
Better not do it rigorously
The result is super clear
I just want to avoid making stupid mistakes when things get more complicated
 
8:14 PM
Hmmm
OK try this
 
remember that argument about homotopy groups of spheres not being isomorphic? Our lecturer just assumed hurewicz for that lol
 
$C_*(\sqcup_{j \in \pi_0 X} X_j) \to C_*(X)$ induced by the obvious continuous map $i$ is an isomorphism --- injectivity because $i$ is literally injective, surjectivity because every simplex lies in a path-component
Then use that homology groups of disjoint unions are the disjoint union of homology groups
:)
 
instead of the one sentence longer proof via brouwer
 
As for the algebra questions:
Yes, taking quotients is functorial in the right sense. You can consider a category where objects are pairs $(N,G)$ of a group $G$ and a normal subgroup $G$ of $N$. A map $(N,G)\rightarrow(M,H)$ is a group homomorphism $f\colon G\rightarrow H$ such that $f(N)\subseteq M$ (so $f$ preserves the subgroup). There is a functor to groups mapping $(N,G)$ to the quotient group $G/N$ and $f$ to the map $\tilde{f}\colon G/N\rightarrow H/M,\,gN\mapsto f(g)M$. This is well-defined, precisely because $f$ maps $N$ to $M$. Note that chain maps commuting with the differentials
 
@user2103480 This is more morally correcy
 
8:18 PM
were you flagged lol
 
I haven't even mentioned yet that the first thing is a full subcategory of a certain comma category
 
@Thorgott perfect, thanks to both, I appreciate the effort
 
Injectivity and surjectivity are both completely clear. $C_n$ is free abelian on the set consisting of all $n$-simplices in $X$. $C_n^i$ is free abelian on the set consisting of all $n$-simplices in $X_i$. Each $n$-simplex in $X$ lies in one and only one $X_i$ (by path-connectedness), so we have an explicit bijection between bases.
idea is the same if you take coefficients elsewhere than $\mathbb{Z}$, still
 
hahahaha you can stop explaining
 
@Thorgott Ok fair enough
 
8:29 PM
algebra wins again
 
I was thinking too algebraically but not algebraically enough
You can't half-algebra it
 
8:44 PM
looks like something happened here
 
i owned topology with algebra and logic
 
the answer I should have given is that singular homology is maps from singular manifolds mod singular bordisms, an both singular manifols and bordisms are path-connected, hence take place in a given path-component
 
8:59 PM
@MikeMiller that's exactly what I would say /s
 
Do you know what a smooth manifol is
 
yeh
 
Read Kreck's book
differential algebraic topology
 
atlases, right, @BalarkaSen?
 
sigh
 
9:00 PM
more important question: red or white wine in bolognese
@BalarkaSen "it's all so tiring"
 
The point is that the data of a cycle --- $\sum \sigma_i$ with $\sum d\sigma_i = 0$ --- is almost exactly the data of an $n$-ddimensional simplicial complex $P$ with orientations of each simplex so that each codim 1 simplex is contained in exactly two codim 0 simplices
 
yeah man lets do stratifolds
 
This $P$ is a manifold except along points in the (n-2)-skeleton
AKA: "manifold with singularities in codimension 2"
To say that $\sum \sigma_i = d(\sum \eta_i)$ again almost precisely means $P = \partial B$ where $B$ is an (n+1)-dimensional simplicial complex so that each codim 1 simplex is contained in exactly either 1 or 2 codim 0 simplices
orientations etc etc
So that homology groups are exactly what you get when you look at maps from singular manifolds up to singular bordism
 
In germany, we have an idiom. "Perlen vor die Säue werfen", apparently translated to "casting pearls before swine"
When you explain that, you're wasting precious energy since I won't be able to retain these probably very useful facts
 
None of this is useful
You're playing a game
 
9:06 PM
useful for the useless game I guess :D
 
the utilitarian run eh
thats a hard one
 
Is Balarka done dielectrifying?
 
more or less
i still have to write the assignment
 
Now you're here for the dielectic.
 
@BalarkaSen tbh I didn't pursue logic further because what we have at the moment seems not appropriate for tackling real-world problems
 
9:09 PM
you want to tackle real imaginary-word problems
logic is imaginary imaginary-world problems
thats the point
 
not necessarily. Computability was a huge practical and philosophical thing
A model of what a computer can follow, intricately related to how we do mathematics, in the sense of incompleteness basically being a halting problem#
But for biological computations and spaces in which "language" resides etc, things that gromov seeks to describe in his essays, this approach plainly failed
which gromov stresses at some points
 
yeah i dont understand gromov's ventures into cell biology
 
ahhhh, way too applied
 
the paper "cell biology and hyperbolic geometry" is amusing
 
let C be a category
 
9:14 PM
@TedShifrin Apparently it's true that if $X$ is a complex simply connected Kahler manifold of nonpositive curvature then every complex submanifold $Y \subset X$ deformation retract to a half-dimensional CW complex
 
Or, more practically, training a neural net, or an algorithm that vectorizes words such that "paris - france + germany = berlin", is way easier than doing the same thing with a logical rule system
and more effective as an approach
 
I guess the relevant Morse function $f : Y \to \Bbb R$ is $f(y) = d(y, x_0)^2$ where $d$ is the Riemannian distance function, $x_0 \in X$ is a fixed generic point
 
@Thorgott someday, hopefully, the discussion about such objects will be purely mathematical
 
Not sure how to use nonpositivity.
 
This is all Stein stuff, huh?
Nonpositivity must in particular imply non-compact (because simply connected)?
@Thorgott I categorically refuse.
 
9:20 PM
Is "savage" kernels of an algebraic number field the right english terminology?
Oh no, it's wild
As usual, as soon as I ask a terminology question I've been searching for 20 minutes I find the answer
 
I've only heard of wildly embedded knots ...
 
@BalarkaSen What? So no codimension 1 closed guys?
 
@TedShifrin Yeah, but that is a much harder theorem maybe
@MikeMiller Yeah
Seems believable
No compact manifolds in C^n
 
You never said your guy is noncompact
Oh does nonpositive curvature imply it's diffeo to C^n again
 
I'm being confusing maybe. My guy being X or Y? You agree X is forced to be noncompact, right?
Yeah, exponential map
I forgot completeness
But yes.
 
9:25 PM
But we’re talking holomorphic sec curv, so not obvious.
 
Yeah, why is it still noncompact for holomorphic sectional curvature <= 0?
 
I don't know this. At least I don't know that I do.
Maybe in Kobayashi.
Which I no longer possess.
 
Can you be holomorphically flat but not flat? Maybe this is a linear algebra trick?
 
I think constant holomorphic curvature forces C^n, B^n or CP^n
Hm, let me think of a proof
 
How much rigor would you assume for someone to show that the klein bottle / the connected sum of two real projective planes is an S^1-bundle over S^1? From a picture, it's pretty clear why this is true, but if anything, I could only imagine smart quotient maps to yield a readable symbolic proof. Some polar coordinates stuff maybe suffices too
 
9:37 PM
What is the Klein bottle? It's the connected sum of two projective planes by definition?
 
I can probably assume any of the usual representations
 
Oh if this is homework I shouldn't tell you
 
haha you still have the lecturers homepage dont you? if yes, you can look up that homework does not do anything
it neither goes into the grade nor is it necessary for exam qualification
it's not allowed lmao
MK were his initials
(so it's not against academic integrity in any sense)
 
oh fine
So I can tell you the clean proof I know or the way most people will do it
 
that'd be great, but a link is fine as well
 
9:43 PM
If by definition K is RP^2 # RP^2 then by definition this is obtained by pasting two copies of RP^2 \ D to its boundary --- so if you know that's the Mobius band, then you see it's obtained by pasting two mobius bands along their boundary
 
We can safely assume that I'm allowed to use that representation
 
Now it should be clear (but I can explain) that any definition of the mobius band has that it's an interval bundle over the circle
 
ahh yeah! I think I can take it from here
thanks!
 
Here's my clean proof that also works for HP^2 # HP^2 or CP^2 # CP^2
 
I have to work with those in the following exercises. although I'm lazy and will do the 4th exercise instead
 
9:47 PM
You know the usual representation of RP^n as a ball with antipodal points on its boundary identified
 
yeah
 
There is also such a representation for kP^n, k = C,H
It's the ball with points x,y on the boundary identified iff they are k-scalar multiples
(necessarily unit-norm scalars)
 
so if they're on the same ray
 
Line, not ray
 
both directions, right
 
9:50 PM
Yeah, but note that for C above that means every point gets identified with a whole circle of other points
 
I tend to confuse terminology, I meant line
 
I am too dumb for this maybe. I want to show if M is a compact Kahler manifold then hol sec. curvature is somewhere positive. I was trying to think about curves in M: let exp : T_p M -> M be the exponential map, and V in T_p M be a complex line, which you can exponentiate everywhere and get a totally geodesic curve in M; this should be some closed, embedded curve right? I feel like it cannot be noncompact.
 
or for H a 3-sphere's worth of other points
Just saying line means 2D or 4D in terms of real dimensions so "direction" is less clear
 
@MikeMiller that's probably the best explanation of CP I've heard
 
OK
The same is true if you take the complement of an open ball, plus infinity, and identify the points on its boundary in the same way as above
 
9:52 PM
and the first one for HP, thanks
 
(Inverting the radius is a homeomorphism k^n cup infty to itself which swaps 0 and infty)
 
basically a stereographic projection?
 
Yeah, if you think of this inside the sphere all we are considering is top hemisphere vs bottom hemisphere
On the sphere the map I'm discussing is reflection across xy-plane
Now here's the truck
Trick
It follows that kP^n \ D can be represented as the annulus of inradius 1 and outradius 2 where points of outradius 2 are identified iff they are in the same line
It can also be identified as the annulus of inradius 1/2 and outradius 1 where points of radius 1/2 are identified iff they are in the same line
Gluing those together, you get: the annulus of inradius 1/2, outradius 2, where points on the inradius are identified if in same line and points on the outradius are identified if on the same line
There's almost a well-defined projection to the sphere of radius 1, but it doesn't quite work because we identified points on the same line
 
Hello everyone.

I have two continuous functions $f\colon \mathbb{R} \to \mathbb{R}$ and $g\colon \mathbb{R} \to \mathbb{R}$ and a dense set $X$ sucht that $f(x)=g(x)$ for all $x\in X$.

I've shown that because $X$ is dense, then for all $z\in\mathbb{R}$ I can find a sequence $(z_n)_n$ in $X$ such that $z_n\to z$.

Now I want to show that $f=g$. Because they are continuous, for every $z\in\mathbb{R}$ we have $\lim{f(z_n)} = f(z)$ for every sequence $z_n\to z$ and the same applies to $g$.

Now how do I show that they are equal? Do I use the $\epsilon-N$ definition? I'll get that
 
But if we instead project to lines on the sphere of radius 1 you get that there is a fiber bundle kP^n # bar(kP^n) -> kP^{n-1}. (swapped orientation on 2nd) (k, n) = (R, 2) this specifies to what you want
@AttractorNotStrangeAtAll I don't follow what you end with here. If you use the triangle inequality on |f(z) - g(z)| = |f(z) - f(z_n) - (g(z) - g(z_n))| you bound it by eps_1 + eps_2 by your inequalities.
So you know 0 <= |f(z) - g(z)| <= eps for all real numbers eps>0.
 
10:05 PM
Ooops, the correct is $\left| f(z_n) - f(z)\right| + \left| g(z_n) - g(z)\right| < \varepsilon$
 
Hi! I have a question regarding computing simplicial homology groups. If I have a structure which looks like two faceless triangles connected at a point, with another triangle (that does have a face) composed by drawing an edge between the two next closest, not connected points
_ _
e.g. the structure \/_\/, where the middle triangle has a face, how do I find the orientation of the 1-simplicies, and how many distinct 0-simplicies there are? Do we necessarily have to have 3 simplicies which cannot be identified with each other in order to have the 2-simplex (e.g. the face)? And do those fac
 
@MikeMiller But why would it be $ 0 \leq \left| f(z) - g(z)\right|$ and not $ 0 < \left| f(z) - g(z)\right|$? Because I need it to be $0$ in order to say that they are indeed equal
 
My left bound is just because absolute values are by definition always non-negative
The upper bound is what you obtained above
So $|f(z) - g(z)|$ is a real number which is either equal to 0 or greater than zero, which is smaller than every number which is greater than zero
 
Ohh I was confused because in limits we need the lower bound to be strict, that is $0<\left| x- a\right|$ for some $a\in X'$ for example.
But the fact that it is closer for whatever $\varepsilon>0$ we may choose does not tell me that they are equal, right?
 
Constant sectional curvature is equivalent to saying the curvature tensor $R$ is proportional to $g(KN)g$ where $KN$ is Kulkarni-Nomizu, by just verifying it on $(X, Y, X, Y)$, in which case it's definition; the full tensor is determined by these. I bet holomorphic sectional curvature says but with KM product replaced by a complexified KM product
 
10:12 PM
@AttractorNotStrangeAtAll Yes. You know that $|f(z) - g(z)|$ is either equal to zero or positive. But if it was positive (say, $a$), then taking $\epsilon = a/2$, you would also know that $a < a/2$, AKA, $a < 0$. Contradiction!
 
Oh.... Nice. Thank you!
 
Said more clearly: Every positive real number has another positive real number smaller than it. Therefore there is no positive real which is smaller than every other positive real.
Since $|f(z) - g(z)|$ is either zero or positive... but it's also smaller than every positive real number... it must be zero.
 
Very clear! It's almost obvious now. Thx
 
10:27 PM
Ok this is too hard for me. Next exercise is if $X, Y \subset \Bbb C^N$ are complex submanifolds with $\dim X + \dim Y \geq N$ and $\{(x, y) \in X \times Y : d(x, y) \leq c\}$ is compact for every $c$, then $X$ and $Y$ intersect
 
@BalarkaSen This is weird
 
I would like to say distance-to-$X$ (squared) as a function $Y \to \Bbb R$ cannot have a local minimum maybe
By some harmonicity
 
Is this actually an exercise
 
in Gromov
 
Awful
 
10:33 PM
Makes sense though, the compactness condition feels like it's saying the distance function is generic enough
Think two parallel affine lines in C^2
 
I did
 
exercise in gromov lol
 
He's saying complex stuff cannot hyperbolically diverge
very Gromov thing to say
If $z$ is a generic point in $\Bbb C^n$, distance-to-$z$ as a function $Y \to \Bbb R$ is $y \mapsto \sum_i |y_i - z_i|^2$
Consider the curve $y_2 = \cdots = y_n = 0$ in $Y$, the 1D complex submanifold
restricted to that submanifold this function is just $|y_1 - z_1|^2$
i mean
which of course never attains local minimum at disks on the curve $y_2 = \cdots = y_n =0$
$y_1 - z_1$ is holomorphic function on that disk, this is Liouville's theorem
Same should be true for distance to generic complex submanifolds of C^n
Is this even remotely correct?
 
Lol this all sounds like junk
 
:( why
It is true right by Liouville
 
10:44 PM
Oh god I dunno I was just thinking that I have no idea how to understand this
The actual idea in general
OK I'll take your thing more seriously sorry
 
yeah i get your point
its weird
but
 
Here's the problem with your approach
Why the dimension?
 
Hi, I still have my previous question on toplogy:

"Hi! I have a question regarding computing simplicial homology groups. If I have a structure which looks like two faceless triangles connected at a point, with another triangle (that does have a face) composed by drawing an edge between the two next closest, not connected points
_ _
e.g. the structure \/_\/, where the middle triangle has a face, how do I find the orientation of the 1-simplicies, and how many distinct 0-simplicies there are? Do we necessarily have to have 3 simplicies which cannot be identified with each other in order to ha
 
Yeah, I don't understand the dimension hypothesis. I can take two skew lines in C^3 and that would be a counterexample
But why can I use it
 
@remana What reference are you using? This depends on the definition of simplicial complex or Delta-complex that you are using.
 
10:49 PM
@Alessandro I'm getting screwed by Gromov
help
 
@MikeMiller n-simplex being the set $\{(x_0, ..., x_n) \in \mathbb{R}^{n+1}, \forall i \leq q, x_i \ge 0, \Sigma^{n}_{i=0} x_i = 1\}$
 
That's a simplex, but I still need to know what a simplicial complex is (the input to simplicial homology) and what the simplicial chain complex / boundary operator are defined as. Easiest to tell me the reference.
 
@BalarkaSen why
 
@MikeMiller the same as in Allen Hatcher's Algebraic Topology
 
So a Delta-complex comes equipped with characteristic maps for each simplex, maps from the standard simplex.
That's the standard orientation
Actually let me just do this eplicitly
The point is that when you give a Delta-complex you start by orienting every simplex (not necessarily compatibly)
You have five 0-simplices, five one-simplices, and one 2-simplex
Sorry, OK, let me start from the topo. I got thrown off by your discussion of orientation.
I have to assume your structure looks like a triangle with two "wings". When you say "do those faceless triangles nee to have a 1-simplex..." it's kind of unclear what you mean --- you give me the space
In a Delta-complex you can identify different sides of a triangle to the same side, so those 3 sides do not actually have to be distinct
But each side of the triangle does need a 1-simplex to be glued to (they can just all be the same if you like)
I'm gonna punt on orientations for now
 
11:05 PM
I think I understand that part, thank you.
 
Maybe dist(x, y)^2 : X x Y -> R is a Morse function after perturbing X and Y a little bit in C^N. Suppose $(x_0, y_0)$ is a critical point such that $x_0 \neq y_0$, then intuitively the index is $\dim_{\Bbb C} X$ (there are $\dim_{\Bbb C} X$ direction you can nudge $x_0$ in so that the secants emanating out of those clutter at $y_0$) + $\dim_{\Bbb C} Y$ (same logic but with nudging $y_0$ now, $x_0$ fixed)
So if $\dim_{\Bbb C} X + \dim_{\Bbb C} Y > N$ was a strict inequality you get screwed because dimension of $X \times Y$ has dimension at most $2N$, so half dimension at most $N$
And my guy is Stein so deformation retracts to a half dimensional object, which having a Morse function with more than half dimensional index critipoint will contradict
@MikeMiller
I'm going to sleep now but to elaborate a little more on the index, at a critical pair of points (x0, y0) it should be the number of allowable directions you can move the secant L = x_0y_0 while staying in the secant variety so that you "move towards" L. Fixing y_0, there are (dim_R X)/2 = dim_C X choices: For every complex 1D submanifold of X, distance to x_0 never attain local min or local max by Liouville so out of every 2 dimension only 1 is available to you
Similarly dim_C Y choices the other way around. So at most dim_C X + dim_C Y > N index I think
big brain Morse theory
night
 
11:51 PM
Also, could anybody inform me how to make a covering projection that doesn't evenly cover the whole space (Topology)? For the figure 8, say, if I have one sheet that maps to the one half, and another sheet that maps to the other, that evenly covers the whole figure 8.
 
I don't really understand that question. If you're looking for a simple example of a non-trivial covering space I suggest f_n: S^1 -> S^1 with f_n(z) = z^n.
 
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