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2:00 PM
Anyway, whoever it is, if you have a mathematics question you can ping me directly in the following chat-room:

  Basic Mathematics

This room is meant for all basic mathematical discussion, incl...
 
Maybe an 'invitation bot' did that mass invitation.
 
@amWhy I am now a group-friendly gourd.
 
@robjohn well done, your squash is wearing a mask
 
@user21820 I've noticed one person in common in all the rooms to which I was invited.
 
2:23 PM
@BalarkaSen vampire hissing
 
2:42 PM
@robjohn Yourself? Hmm...
 
Hey the Weierstrass spirit has come it is screaming the Stone–Weierstrass theorem quickly hide
I know this is not funny
 
sigh
 
day after tomorrow is the birthday of George Bool
There are only ten types of people: those who understand binary and those who don't
 
It's nice that you're enthusiastic about mathematics, @epic_math, but these are all lame jokes that everyone has heard a million times and it's kinda tiring
 
@EdwardEvans :'(
 
2:49 PM
Sorry but you keep spamming this junk into chat
 
Edward there exists the ignore option
 
@EdwardEvans sorry I'll not do this from now
I am kinda annoying sometimes
 
click on a user's profile image, some drop-down list emerges, click "ignore this user (everywhere)"
 
I like those jokes when geocalc makes them
 
I think I should leave now...
 
2:51 PM
Maybe @epic_math will have a genuine question at some point
 
That guy's nuts
Probably one of the best posters here
 
@geocalc33 is amazing
 
@BalarkaSen Give the kid something to read about topology
 
What is the attitude towards “stupid” questions in this chat? In other words, beginner questions?
 
2:53 PM
@MikeMiller I don't know topology
all I know is TOPOS theory
 
@trivialmathisdifficult you can ask what you want here, just if it's relentless spam then you might get ignored. Genuine questions will get answered if someone decides to answer them.
 
@epic_math Scott Carter has a nice book called "How surfaces intersect in space"
you were asking for a good topology book so I think you'll like that
 
I know I was saying stupid things, but are you people trolling me?
 
nobody has the time to troll a 14 year old on the internet my dude
unless the said person is 13 year old
 
I'm 16 btw
 
2:57 PM
You said you're younger than 16 in the other chat you invited everyone on the site to
 
When?
I think it's a typo
 
:55992216 here (idk if replying works like this)
it does not
rip
 
@AlessandroCodenotti you can even reply to your future self
 
I see
 
or messages from a different chat
 
2:58 PM
yeah right
 
@AlessandroCodenotti you can even reply to yourself
 
i once responded to a future message
(epic vlog #234)
 
rofl
 
yeah I remember that, you need to guess the number, right?
:56007668 quick someone write a message
 
my name jeff
 
3:00 PM
off by 4
 
hahaha
 
@AlessandroCodenotti yeah its because the indexing works network-wide
some dork might post before you do
 
I know, I tried guessing but apparently people are spamming more than I thought in the other rooms
 
a
:56007688 b
c
so close
 
:56007701 a
b
Easy
 
3:02 PM
oh shit
reload
 
dang
 
i mean refresh chat
 
Hello
 
not working though for some reason
 
After refreshing it only shows the numbers
But it showed @AlessandroCodenotti earlier
 
3:03 PM
yeah i thought it worked
oh lol
 
but the number is indeed correct so I'm not sure why it's not working
 
ugh sucks
 
self-troll
 
The best number is 7. It is the correct number
 
looks like a dick for telling a kid off for posting random junk into the chat and then immediately proceeding to talk shit in the chat
 
3:05 PM
at least he was posting math jokes
we're spamming numerology
 
What are you talking about
 
yeah wtf, ban me
here's a funny doughnut-coffee cup joke
 
But it has an extra hole
 
ye that's the joke
slaps leg
 
Does anyone here like group theory?
 
3:09 PM
it's ok
 
@mathguy Only when nobody else is around to mock me for it :)
 
Does everyone posts jokes here?
 
@Edward that's such a silly design, i love it
 
Depends on what kind of group theory
 
@Thorgott there was actually a math Ramschladen that was selling such mugs as topologists' coffee cups
 
3:10 PM
I was reading about Kazhdan's property (T) earlier, weird stuff
 
lol that sounds fun
 
@AlessandroCodenotti I think everything Kaszdan has been involved in looks slightly weird
Same with Lusztig (to say nothing of the weirdness those two got up to together)
 
@Alessandro Ping pong lemma helps us play Proper TT
 
Who would buy such a silly cup
 
3:12 PM
Property T
 
Lol
 
btw, remember when I asked about endofunctors of FinVect whose maps on Hom-sets are discontinuous
 
I learned a construction and it turns out they're very ugly
 
3:13 PM
I like normal cups. Not topology cups or whatever it is. Was the seller joking?
 
Anyway turns out that amenability and property (T) are somewhat opposite, I think I have a neat argument for that
 
All groups up to order 5 are abelian. Please prove this.
 
I'm goin' cycling, see y'all later
 
@mathguy Using how much theory?
 
Just check all of them, there's like 5
 
3:15 PM
It can be done quite directly by just taking the orders one by one
@AlessandroCodenotti 6 actually
 
Yup I am a beginner
 
Forgot about the trivial one
 
I love algebra
 
@mathguy Then let's take one order at a time
Start with order $1$ (that one should be easy)
 
Does chat support mathJax?
 
Oh thanks
What are some conjectures in abstract algebra?
 
That escalated quickly
 
Surprisingly few major conjectures in algebra that can be easily stated
Also, most of the conjectures I cared about have been disproven by now
 
@balarka Is it a joke? I am an old person I don't understand jokes
I started learning mathematics four years ago and my relatives said that an you can't teach an old dog new tricks
 
theres one million dollars on the Hodge conjecture
 
3:27 PM
@mathguy Nah thats not true, just pick up a good book and read.
 
I don't have many sources I mainly learn online
Looked for the Wikipedia article on Hodge conjecture. Am I the only person who thinks Wikipedia is hard?
 
It's not possible to learn math online by reading wikipedia; it's qualitatively different from learning eg history.
the only way is to pick up a book (and there are looots of good books)
 
Can you give me an amazon link for an abstract algebra book that is good?
Or just recommend books?
 
Yup, for sure. Michael Artin, "Algebra", 2nd edition preferably.
 
Thanks
 
3:37 PM
Can I talk here again?
 
@mathguy I strongly recommend looking at Abstract Algebra: Theory and Applications. It is free online, and is updated every year: abstract.ups.edu/download.html
 
Please recommend a book for linear algebra.
 
it's not Wikipedia that's hard, it's math that is
 
Artin contains linear algebra
 
I don't think anyone here understands the Hodge conjecture in detail
 
3:39 PM
@Thorgott yes. The foundations should be very clear for understanding wikipedia
 
Unfortunately, I can't trust Wikipedia for stats. Some stuff there is outright wrong for stats.
 
Has any user ignored me?
 
@epic_math If you have a question, just ask it
 
I always trust wikipedia
 
@Clarinetist That looks like an interesting reference, though it seems really weird to me that it has linear algebra so late, introducing vector spaces after both groups and rings
 
3:42 PM
I don't know why people don't trust wikipedia.
 
many things in wiki are outright wrong
2
i can confirm
 
What are some trustable sources?
 
Unfortunately, I find textbooks tend to be much more reliable (despite errata)
 
agreed.
 
@mathguy wolfram mathworld I think.
 
3:44 PM
I also despise how much Springer and Cambridge University Press textbooks are.
 
What is wolfram mathworld?
 
@epic_math I have not found mathworld be be any more reliable than wikipedia when it comes to math stuff
 
I seldom had issues with Wikipedia tbh
 
My final project for grad school actually had us in the class attempt to rewrite that page
 
4:40 PM
@mathguy One needs a LOT of background to even understand what the Hodge conjecture is about.
 
Wikipedia is fairly dense to read
On the math side, that is
 
@user21820 Well, I don't think I can invite myself to another room. I haven't tried, but I haven't even seen the option.
 
It doesn't help when you don't have a person nearby who can explain or rephrase particularly ergodic passages
 
@Rithaniel have you tried reading en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dense_set?
 
HA
 
4:49 PM
@BalarkaSen I don't think I ever kicked someone from the room, but maybe the time has come
 
nek minnit, Alessandro kicks himself out
 
Howdy, a @Balarka, @Rithaniel, demonic @Alessandro
 
Greetings, Ted. How are you, today?
 
Hi @Ted
 
4:52 PM
Doing fine, thanks. Beautiful sunny Halloween day.
 
Yeah, I lost internet after that storm blew through (had to cancel my class as a result), but now its really nice outside
(Also, internet is back)
 
Yeah, my old friends in GA had a lot of fun with Zeta.
@Balarka: I assume you've discovered that there's not that much content in that stat thing I sent you.
 
Yeah, that thing just vanished as soon as it came through
 
@TedShifrin No, it's pretty cool. I really like it.
I'll read more in a few days
 
I believe Erik is a math ed professor at Indiana University if you want to email him and thank him :)
 
4:56 PM
Oh, excellent, for sure! Let me go through it properly, I can send questions along if I have some.
 
I actually worked pretty hard with him on having it make sense (to me).
 
It feels really well-written. Statistics textbooks don't spend time getting these geometric points across.
 
No. I mean, I've complained ever since I understood that least squares is projection onto the image of the appropriate linear map.
 
Haha, yeah, exactly, things like that.
 
I hope the thesis is titled "statistics: a geometric approach"
 
4:59 PM
LOL, I forget the title.
 
Geometry of the General Linear Model
 
I am not an author, @Alessandro, so that doesn't really work.
 
But you supervised it if I remember correctly your discussion with Balarka from a few days ago?
 
I was one of the supervisors (probably the one who worked the most on it), yes.
Anyhow, his title is more appropriate. Titles should be informative. (This is not a textbook covering a syllabus of topics.)
But I appreciate your cuteness.
 
It has been a long term fascination of mine that if you sample $n$ values $X_1, \cdots, X_n$ from the standard 1D normal distribution, look at the sample mean $(X_1 + \cdots + X_n)/n$ and the sample variance $1/n \cdot \sum_{i = 1}^n (X_i - \overline{X})$ (some scale by $1/(n-1)$, which is more appropriate), then they are independent.
 
5:04 PM
I don't think I know this.
I guess it makes intuitive sense. For one neither the mean nor the variance determines the other.
 
Right. There's a slick proof that I think I briefly saw in Erik's thesis, but I never really liked that proof as much. There's a "pure geometry" reason that takes some work to set up but is fascinating.
 
Oh, I don't remember anything that's in his thesis. :P
He's moved on from this (obviously), but he might be interested in what you have.
 
I think he'll know it, but I have never seen that stuff phrased geometrically. I have said this here before but I feel it has to do with having a foliation, with a family of measures parametrized by $\Bbb R$ on the ambient manifold, such that along the leaves the measures don't change, but transversally they do
 
Oh, that'll be too fancy for him.
 
Ah yeah but this is not how statisticians phrase it, of course, haha
 
5:10 PM
I actually don't remember what math courses he took, but I don't think he took any from me, in fact.
 
Gotcha. Anyway I'm just being a typical "phrase simple things in complicated ways" person.
Speaking of, I hate the way my instructor does Markov chains
So I'm going to spend the rest of the night rewriting the course
 
LOL
I think I've helped train you to waste lots of time :P
 
Well, it's a way to motivate myself to go over whatever he's teaching haha
 
I've never seen this question before. In fact, it looks to me like $G/N$ has to be trivial.
 
Taking a = b arbitrary in G, we get N = G, yeah. Weird.
 
5:21 PM
Yeah, conjugation just permutes the elements of $G$
 
That's why I've never seen the question before. It's a stooopid question. :)
@Rithaniel: I don't follow your remark.
 
Well, it might be a very good question, to quiz a new student on "what does this statement actually mean"
So, for fixed $a\in G$, $aba^{-1}$ is a bijection from $G$ to $G$. So, if $aba^{-1}\in N$ for all $b\in G$, then $N=G$
 
Yes, it's a good exercise in working with equivalence classes and forcing students to confront correct notation. This was something I worked extremely hard at when I taught my algebra course.
Oh, I see. So you're not even using normality of $N$. I did in my proof, using the group structure on $G/N$.
So that makes it a stooopid question for a stooopider reason.
 
Heh, yeah this is true
I'd like to teach an algebra course, but I don't know if my understanding is yet at that point
 
Too many textbooks make it too much about symbol pushing, and it's easy to teach it that way.
 
5:27 PM
Yeah, I'm actually giving a talk at the math club this Friday about the Monster Group. I want to try and explain that a group can be realized geometrically
 
How do you define the monster group
 
A geometric interpretation of the Monster would be ideal, but I don't know if that's a thing that can be managed. Been looking for a while and it's too complex for me to get a grip on anything
It's generated by 12 involutions with 68 other relations on them
 
Hey everyone
 
Heya Perturbative
 
Hey @Ted, you were right yesterday, that map $F$ had nothing to do with it, I just assumed it did
 
5:32 PM
Heya @Perturb.
LOL, now I don't remember the question; I just remember the redundant $F$.
 
How are you doing these days by the way? @Ted :)
 
It's a lot more boring being a retired bum in a pandemic.
 
Lol, at least the chances of getting infected are lower than if you were teaching
 
Yeah, UGA didn't handle this stuff well at all. Go figure with an immoral, unethical governor kissing the president's butt.
 
Zoom classes should be the only option at every university where infection rates are high in my opinion
 
5:36 PM
that georgian senator is a scumbag
cornell is apparently doing a stellar job
 
Hey Perturbative, long time no see
 
Both GA senators are, JoeShmo. I've sent money to both their opponents, despite having been a CA resident for 5+ years.
 
Hey @AlessandroCodenotti :), yeah been a long time
 
So are you doing your masters in Bonn in the end?
 
I have been doing interviewing of applicants to my alma mater. It'll be interesting doing that on Zoom for the first time.
 
5:38 PM
Yep! @AlessandroCodenotti
I was really excited to be able to register and stuff
 
Nice, are you in Bonn now? Or just following classes online for the time being?
 
Congrats, Perturb.
 
congrats!
 
Just following online for the time being, things are bad in Germany at the moment so not sure when I'll actually get around to moving there
Thanks! @TedShifrin @JoeShmo
 
Makes sense
What classes are you taking this semester?
 
5:41 PM
For me, so much of education is about interactions — and most of my students spent a lot of time in office hours talking with me and working with their fellow students. I would have to learn to be a totally different teacher.
 
yeah its not the same and its absolutely no fun..
there's the built in advantage that lectures are recorded, though.
 
I'm attending Alg Top I, Adv Geom I, Topological Manfifolds, Intro to Surgery Theory and Algebraic Geom I for the moment but I might not write the exam for all
@AlessandroCodenotti
 
This is my semester teaching, so I've had an unusual time of it
 
Uhh, surgery. Very cool topic
 
Neat, who's teaching algtopI and AG I this term?
 
5:42 PM
Bodigheimer for Alg Top I and Huybrechts for AG
 
Ah I see, never took courses with either, I only know them by name
 
Quite happy to now be in a line of work where I am only minimally affected by Covid (mainly the lack of social interaction in person with my coworkers that I miss)
 
@AlessandroCodenotti Did you get affected much by Covid towards the end of your studies over there?
 
Not really, in the last semester I was only working on my thesis and not taking courses
 
Ahh did you load up on credits on your earlier semesters, in that case, to be able to do that?
 
5:48 PM
I only had to do an exam and my thesis seminar on zoom
 
Ohh sorry I know what you mean now
 
Well the thesis+thesis seminar is 36 credits so if you can do around 30 credits per semester in the first three semesters you don't need to do more classes in the last term
 
Yeah for some reason I thought you had to do the thesis over a year
 
I started working on it during my third semester
 
Ah cool
 
5:52 PM
The rule is that you can't take longer than a year, but you can use less time of course
 
Yeah makes sense, it's pretty cool how much flexibility you get too in general
 
Indeed
I suppose you already know about the 3 areas and 2 seminars requirements
 
Yeah we had an information talk where they went over all that with us
For the lectures this semester, I'll actually just be happy if I can absorb like 70% of the material, my background is admittedly quite lacking in some areas
Anyway, it's been nice chatting to you all once again, I gotta head out now :)
 
Bubye.
 
Cya later
 
5:59 PM
The pro trick everyone does for the 3 areas requirement is to take Global Analysis I because it's an intro to smooth manifolds course but it gives analysis credits
 
That's a sneaky way to make everyone learn what a manifold is.
Sort of how I included differential geometry of curves and surfaces as a way to fulfill the undergraduate analysis requirement (real analysis — hard, complex analysis — easy, diff geo — medium), arguing that it would make people understand multivariable calculus better (like the so-called advanced calculus courses in the US).
 
Here's a question: So, zero divisors can be nilpotent, idempotent, and stuff like $\bar{x},\bar{y}\in R[x,y]/(xy)$ (I don't have a name for that one). Is this an exhaustive list of type of zero divisors or are there others that fit into none of the above?
 
@Rithaniel I have no idea what characterizes the last type you mention
 
So, the idea is that $x$ is a zero divisor such that $x^m\neq x^n$ when $n\neq m$
 
6:57 PM
consider $k[x]/(x^2-x^3)$. Then $\overline{x}$ is not nilpotent, not idempotent and we have $\overline{x}^2=\overline{x}^3$
 
Howdy @Lukas
 
hi @Ted
 
I was thinking that in some sense the third form was universal, but I would probably have needed to be working in a $k$-algebra and map to $k[x,y]/(xy)$. Trying to think it through gave me a headache.
 
$\overline{x} \in \Bbb Z[x,y]/(xy)$ is a versal (=universal -uni(que)) zero divisor in the sense that for every zero divisor $r \in R$ there's a ring map $\Bbb Z[x,y]/(xy) \to R$ which maps $\overline{x}$ to $r$
but the ring map is not unique because one might do different stuff with $y$
however $(\overline{x},\overline{y}) \in \Bbb Z[x,y]/(xy)$ is the universal pair of elements that multiply to zero
 
what is a nilpotent geometrically?
oops I meant zero divisor
 
7:07 PM
@LeakyNun A thick point
ahh, then no idea
 
a nilpotent element is an element which vanishes on every $x\in \mathrm{Spec}(R)$
 
Probably there are some local properties that can be considered, since localizing at a zero-divisor has some interesting behavior
 
note that if $R$ is Noetherian, then the set of zero divisor is precisely the union of minimal prime ideals
 
the canonical map to the localization becomes not injective
 
@LeakyNun right, but what does that translate to geometrically?
 
7:10 PM
aren't there names for sheaves where the restriction maps are injective?
 
so being a zero divisor means that if we think of the element as a function on $\mathrm{Spec}(R)$, then it vanishes on an irreducible component
this is all for $R$ Noetheriann
 
all my rings are noetherian
 
all rings are noetherian
 
TIL that holomorphic functions are not a ring
 
all noetherian rings are mine
 
7:12 PM
@LukasHeger why?
 
google doesn't tell me why
 
holomorphic functions are not Noetherian
 
what's the ideal?
 
Choose any infinite sequence of elements $z_1, z_2, \dots \in U$ such that $\{z_i \mid i \in \Bbb N\}$ is discrete. Consider the following chain of ideals $I_n:\{f \in \mathcal O(U) \mid \forall i\geq n:f(z_i)=0 \}$. Then $I_1 \subsetneq I_2 \subsetneq \dots$ doesn't stabilize
you can use the Weierstraß product thoerem to construct $f \in \mathcal{O}(U)$ such that $f_i(z)\neq 0$ for $i<n$ and $f_i(z)=0$ for $i \geq n$
Weierstraß products can also be used to show that $\mathcal{O}(U)$ is a gcd domain when $U$ is a domain
 
7:22 PM
I thought you guys had outlawed ß !!!
 
no ß is still used
is Weierstra$\wp$ better?
 
LOL, I don't think that's legit.
Now you pronounce his name -p.
 
@LukasHeger So is the idea that if we pick the ideal of functions vanishing at some given point, then that ideal is not finitely generated?
 
@TobiasKildetoft the idea is if we take some discrete infinite set $S$, then the ideal of functions which vanishes for almost all elements in $S$ is not f.g.
or one can use the chain of ideals I wrote down
 
8:00 PM
@LukasHeger how do you type the quotation marks in german?
 
„like this“
 
then how do you type them?
 
here in the chat if I type " is just get that, but in a program like LibreOffice Writer if everything is set properly, it automaticall replaces " with „ and “, respectively, depending on the context
 
interesting
 
Why was the J-Holomorphic curve religious?
2
because deep in his holomorphic heart he knew God had made him
 
8:21 PM
Brilliant!!
@MikeMiller
 
8:37 PM
@LukasHeger Ah, nice. So, for every $n,m\in\mathbb{N}$, we can find a ring with a zero divisor $x$ such that $x$ is not idempotent, not nilpotent, and $x^n=x^m$
 
8:49 PM
@EdwardEvans So, inquiring minds want to know. How long was Edward banned for?
 
So, technically speaking, there are two classes of zero divisors. Ones such that there exist nonzero $n\neq m\in\mathbb{N}$ where $x^n=x^m$ and ones where if $x^n=x^m$ then $n=m$. Idempotents and nilpotents are just a special case of the first
 

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