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8:00 PM
I have thought a bit about this question but I'm having a hard time - it's quite interesting
 
Second-countable, connected, but not necessarily Hausdorff?
/s
 
the compact (...hausdorff...) case is already interesting
 
I will be very surprised if the answer is yes but that's 100% just a feeling
 
Agree
It is equivalent to restrict to the action of $S_n$ for all $n$
 
Faithful meaning injective?
 
8:04 PM
Right, no element acts trivially / the action does not factor through a quotient
 
(otherwise every group acts trivially and the question is very boring I guess)
 
hm, the minimal polynomial of a rank $2$ $n \times n$ matrix A can have one of two forms -- $m_A(\lambda) = \lambda(\lambda - \lambda_1)(\lambda - \lambda_2)$ or $m_A(\lambda) = \lambda(\lambda - \lambda_1)$? Correct?
 
Well, the braid groups act on the plane, dunno if that's relevant
Or maybe that's only true up to homotopy?
 
Doesn't help much, unfortunately - I expect the answer is negative
(I haven't thought about your suggestion very hard)
 
Does $S_3$ act on the plane?
Does $S_5$ act on the sphere?
 
8:08 PM
@AkivaWeinberger Which sphere?
 
Clearly you can't do it via isometries
but I dunno how to think about the general case
 
A finite group acting freely on $S^{2n}$ is either trivial or $\Bbb Z/2\Bbb Z$
 
Probably some sort of cellular thingy
 
8:10 PM
@AlessandroCodenotti This is false!!!!
A finite group acting Freely
That was too many exclamation points
 
$S^4$ acts on the sphere 'cause cubes
 
Damn I knew I was forgetting some adjectives, my bad
 
What's freely mean again?
 
No stabilizer at any point
 
Ah, so like the centers of the faces/vertices/edges of the cube in the $S^4$ example
 
8:11 PM
That four factorials you just added to that "false"
 
@MikeMiller How to shock a topologist with a single sentence
 
@Astyx I think if the eigenvalues are the same, then the degree of the jordan block is $1$. Alternatively, the largest ($1 \times 1$) jordan block that corresponds to $\lambda_1$ is $1$.. that's why I omitted that term. I'm not sure if the $\lambda$ has any power, and I think it shouldn't..
 
It should
If you take the matrix
1 2
0 1
It has minimal polynomial $(\lambda-1)^2$
 
oh yes
it has rank 2, but it's not diagnozable
what about the $\lambda$ term though? will it ever have a power $\ge 1$?
 
In dimension $2$ never
In higher dimensions, always
 
8:18 PM
for an $n \times n$ matrix, what would the degree be?
 
@AkivaWeinberger I doubt it but do not have a proof
 
Depends on $n$
As I just said
 
It's strange to see half the room in italics.
 
The room was understaffed on the moderator front.
 
You can change that by changing your browser settings
If you really want to
 
8:20 PM
Owners have names in italics, and moderators have names in blue, but only I have the whole square blue.
So I am quite proud of my achievement. =)
 
This is slightly weird. So I applied for a job as an Android developer, and they contacted me asking me to do a small programming task to test my skills. The task is based on Firebase, and when I went to learn how to use that, I saw a weekend course on it, which basically develops the exact app this company has asked me to do (except for a few features which will be basically trivial to add on).
 
That's pretty funny
 
I wonder if they expect people to have already done that and just want the add-ons
 
Maybe so, but I am sure this will still be a useful exercise
I should start learning this now instead of 4 years from now
But as a (soon) math PhD I am anticipating that it won't be hard to make the transition
 
@TobiasKildetoft how many years of computing did you do?
 
8:30 PM
@LeakyNun You mean CS? half a year
 
just half a year and you can apply for a job? :o
 
I don't apply based on my CS background
I have done plenty of programming during my research
 
@AkivaWeinberger ... you mean $S_4$?
 
@Astyx suppose $n > 2$, is the power on $\lambda$ $n-2$, or is it $k$ for some $1 \le k \le n-2$
 
It's just 1
 
8:32 PM
right. so the power is always $1$
 
Wait maybe not
 
@MikeMiller Yeah, it is probably fine to get to know Firebase, as that looks quite useful
 
I have minimal programming experience
But longterm don't anticipate this will be an issue
 
im trying to experiment, but need to wait until matlab finishes installing
 
No it can be more
 
8:33 PM
I'm also going to play the academic game for as long as I can
But we'll see
 
(not that many of the jobs I apply for are in Android development. Mostly it is other software development and consulting)
 
do you have an example?
@MikeMiller try going into machine learning or language theory, or anything else that's not traditional programming. else youre dooming yourself to a life amongst idiots
and for that folk there's an inverse relation between how much they know, and how positively they think of their skill
 
0 1 0
0 0 1
0 0 0
 
I feel that what you're describing is true much more broadly than you suspect
 
yup..
 
8:36 PM
it's called the Dunning-Kruger effect
 
yup
when you are too incompetent to even evaluate yourself
 
The "smart" end of that graph is also inaccurate IMO: a lot of people who are expert in some field think they are expert in all fields
I will not pretend I am immune from this (very human) effect
 
also true
but as a mathematician, you are probably an expert in many derivative fields, relative to the "experts".
@Astyx, yes..
fits the bill
hm, ok. there cannot be more than 2 linearly independent columns. perhaps $\lambda^k$, $k \le 2$?
and, well no. your matrix is accounted for in the other form
 
If it's just a power of $\lambda$ it has to be 2
 
$\lambda_1 = 0$,
well yeah but I claim in general there are $3$ distnict forms (which really can be collapsed into one..)
$(1)\ m_A(t) = t(t-\lambda_1)(t-\lambda_2)$
$(2)\ m_A(t) = t(t-\lambda_1)$
$(1)\ m_A(t) = t(t-\lambda_1)^2$
 
8:48 PM
@MikeMiller Maybe there could be some set of homeomorphisms on a infinite type surface(say a surface with infinite genus and set of ends a cantor set) by doing some "general Nielson realization"/choosing a nice hyperbolic metric where it has lots of finite order subgroups...?
 
I believe "lots" but not all
Eg, there are certainly infinitely many finite groups acting freely on $S^3$, much less effectively
 
I guess just for the $t$ term, I am wondering how much contribution to the power do I get from the singular part of the matrix alone. So the power on the characteristic polynomial is going to be $n-2$, but I think the power on the minimal polynomial is going to have to be $1$, once again, contributed to strictly from the singular part of the matrix
and I think I have a proof of that fact..
where, by the way, your matrix falls under category $(2)$, say
 
I am more interested in the compact case though
 
9:08 PM
Sure, there is a sort of standard/simple construction for surfaces to show that for any finite subgroup there is a surface of genus g containing that subgroup in the homeomorphism group(and a way to make it isometries), it seems like with some modification maybe it could work for infinite type surfaces with enough symmetry in the ends. Compact case would be interesting though(and I would be surprised if there where such a manifold)
 
Sure, once you have a finite group action you can make it isometric
I think I see the picture of the symmetric group action
 
The rough idea is to thicken the cayley graph into a surface(i think you need be a little careful, maybe vertices correspond to tori), then you have the group acting on it. It seems possible to generalize this construction to to the "tree of infinite genus" by having the tree parts attached in some way that preserves the action.
 
If you can see a way to get $S_n$ for all $n$ I would be interested + you should post it as an answer
 
Sure, I will see if i can write it down
 
Hi all. I need to find a map between the group $\mathbb R^n$ and the group $Diag(n,\mathbb R^+)$ which consists of $n\times n$ diagonal matrices having positive real diagonal entries, so that I can check if it is an isomorphism. Any suggestion?
 
9:20 PM
@LeakyNun Yes I do
 
@LeylaAlkan what's a map between two things?
 
$S^n$ and $S_n$ are confusing
 
@LeylaAlkan ok I figured it out. I would point out that the first one is a group under addition and the second one is a group under multiplication. Hint: can you do it for $n=1$?
 
@LeakyNun Oh yes I forgot to say that
 
@MikeMiller ok so today we learnt about degree of a map between sufficiently nice spaces (I have already seen this concept before in homology albeit only for a sphere), and they proved that the antipodal map $A : S^n \to S^n$ has degree $(-1)^{n+1}$, and I don't quite like their proof
so I'm thinking how to prove it myself
 
9:24 PM
Whatever proof you don't like I'm sure I like so
I'm not so inspired
 
as in, I think the proof is wrong
also, chill man
So I would probably just take the volume form $\eta := \iota^\ast (\sum_{i=0}^n x_i \mathrm dx^1 \land \cdots \land \widehat{\mathrm dx^i} \land \cdots \land \mathrm dx^n)$
and observe that $A^\ast \eta = (-1)^{n-1} \eta$
is that enough?
wait that doesn't make sense
 
Hello!!

Let $A$ be a $4\times 5$ matrix with rank $2$ and let $U$ be the corresponding row echelon form matrix.

I want to check if the following statement is true or not.

If $B$ is a $5\times 5$ invertible matrix, at least two of the columns of $B$ are not in the nulity of $A$.

Suppose that this false, then less than 2 columns of $B$ are not in the null space of $A$.Then at least 4 columns are in the null space.

What do we get from that?
 
@LeakyNun For $n=1$, I would say $f(x)=e^x$
 
it should be $\eta := \iota^\ast (\sum_{i=0}^n x_i \mathrm dx^0 \land \cdots \land \widehat{\mathrm dx^i} \land \cdots \land \mathrm dx^n)$... then $A^\ast$ reverses the $x_i$ as well as every $\mathrm dx^j$, so there are $n+1$ terms being reversed, so $A^\ast \eta = (-1)^{n+1} \eta$
@LeylaAlkan correct; can you now generalize for $n$?
 
@LeakyNun but how?
 
9:31 PM
@LeylaAlkan can you describe how two diagonal matrices multiply?
 
@LeakyNun lol, I guess tone is hard to read on the internet
 
@MikeMiller so do you think my proof is correct?
 
yes, understanding what the antipodal map does to a volume form in de Rham cohomology is enough
 
great, imma send the lecturer an email
 
since you know what the image $H^n(M;\Bbb Z) \to H^n(M;\Bbb R)$ is
or at least how to detect it
 
9:35 PM
I haven't memorized the formula of the volume of the n-sphere :P
 
@LeakyNun I dont know if I can put it correct but we basically multiply the diagonal entries of the matrices that have the same indices.
 
@LeylaAlkan and how do you add two elements of R^n together?
 
componentwise
 
so... what do they have in common?
 
no clue
 
9:45 PM
Is $GL_{\infty}(\mathbb{Q})$ going to be a well defined group?
 
What do you think that symbol means?
Instead of asking if a symbol is meaningful, start from something you think is a definition
And ask if the definition is meaningful
 
Well now there are two answers, I should have thought of Bells @MikeMiller
 
Well, I guess what I'm asking is "would it be possible to have a matrix with infinitely many rows and the same number of columns?"
 
@Rithaniel how would you multiply two of 'em together?
 
Well, each entry in the resultant matrix would be an infinite sum. Like for matrices $A$ and $B$, $AB$ would have an $i$-th row and $j$-th column of $\sum_{k=1}^{\infty} a_{ik}b_{kj}$
(Assuming I've got the symbols in the right places there. It looks correct at a glance.)
 
9:57 PM
@paul very nice. I am still interested in the closed case.
 
Yah the closed case is interesting, like you I would be surprised if there was such a manifold. Did you have a proof for the closed case that it can't be of diffeomorphisms @MikeMiller
 
Something like this maybe $f(x_1,\cdots , x_n)=$$
\begin{pmatrix}
x_1 & \cdots & 0 \\
\vdots & \ddots & \vdots \\
0 & \cdots & x_n\\
\end{pmatrix}
$
 
@LeylaAlkan you're close
 
@LeakyNun So, what is it exactly :D
 
well...
$f(x_1, \cdots, x_n) = \begin{pmatrix} \exp x_1 & \cdots & 0 \\ \vdots & \ddots & \vdots \\ 0 & \cdots & \exp x_n\\ \end{pmatrix}$
 
10:06 PM
ohhh come on
sure
Thanks then, you've been very helpful really
 
@PaulPlummer I had a mistaken proof
The idea I had was to consider the action of $S_d$. For some reason I thought I would be able to control the orbit types that arise as $d \to \infty$ (this is the flawed part). If there is some $S_d$ orbit with cardinality $d$, then this gives an injective homomorphism $S_{d-1} \to O(n)$ for $n$ the dimension of the manifold by averaging out a Riemannian metric, by looking at one of the fixed points
But the finite subgroups of $O(n)$ are classified and in particular, $S_d$ does not arise for all $d$
I am confident I saw this in an Andy Putman answer on MO but couldn't find the post
Ultimately I don't see how to control the possible orbit types. The idea should be that you can't have that many free quotients, which forces certain stabilizer types - but I couldn't see how to make this precise
 
@MikeMiller Looks like ACTIONS OF ELEMENTARY P-GROUPS ON MANIFOLDS BY . N. MANN AND J. C. SU says no in the compact setting
 
10:21 PM
If you can read the paper and sketch the idea (with a link to the paper) I think that would deserve an ansewr
I would throw some meaningless MSE points at it in the form of a bounty
 
10:37 PM
@LeakyNun I showed that $f$ is a homomorphism and it is injective. Now trying to show that it is surjective, and I started by saying take any $y= \begin{pmatrix} \exp x_1 & \cdots & 0 \\ \vdots & \ddots & \vdots \\ 0 & \cdots & \exp x_n\\ \end{pmatrix} \in Diag(n,\mathbb R^+)$ . But then I don't know how to write $x=(x_1,\cdots , x_n)$ in terms of $y$
 
@MikeMiller I am not really familiar with transformation groups and Smith theory, but the idea seems to be that if you have an elementary abelian $p$-group rank $k$, and it acts effectively, you can inductively apply some of the Smith-type theory arguments to subgroups(rank k-1 for example, to rank 1) to relate the dimension of the manifold to the dimension of fixed point set and rank of the group
 
@PaulPlummer I can work it out with you tonight or tomorrow
I am familiar with that stuff
 
@LeylaAlkan It is no different to the 1-dimensional case is it? Then it should be clear that $y = \mathrm{diag(exp(x))}$ is onto
 
10:54 PM
@Lozansky yes but I don't think my professor will be content with this answer :D
 
@Rithaniel you would have to justify convergence.
 
I mean he wants us to write everything in detail
 
When people say $GL_\infty$ they usually mean $\bigcup_n GL_n$, in which case these are matrices which are supported in the top-left $n \times n$ block (outside of which they are 0, except on the diagonal, where they are 1).
 
hmm, seems weird that $GL_n$ embeds into $GL_{n+1}$
is there a way to view this without basis
so in general $GL(V) \times GL(W)$ should embed into $GL(V \oplus W)$
 
yeah
you're just stabilizing $V \to V \oplus \Bbb R$
 
10:59 PM
I know how $\operatorname{End}(V \oplus W)$ looks like, but I have no idea how $GL(V \oplus W)$ looks like
in fact for $\varphi \in GL(V \oplus W)$, the corresponding $\varphi_{VV} \in \operatorname{End}(V)$ doesn't even need to be invertible
 
it doesn't look like much in terms of the factors
 
11:23 PM
hm, question. If $A$ is $n \times n$ over $\mathbb{C}$, and $rank(A) = 2$, then under the two linearly independent eigenvectors as a basis (and any other vectors not in the eigenspace(s) completing the collection to a basis of $\mathbb{C}^n$), $A \sim \begin{bmatrix} X & 0 \\ 0 & 0 \end{bmatrix}$; where $X$ is $2 \times 2$ is the nonsingular part of $A$?
$n > 2$ obviously
 
it is not necessarily true that there are two linearly independent eigenvectors (think of the standard Jordan block [[1, 1], [0, 1]]), but yes, one can always put your matrix in such a form after a change of basis - for instance, by putting it in Jordan normal form
 
yes, but two vectors belonging to different (generalized) eigenspaces are linearly independent
 
all i was warning about is that you need to say 'generalized' up above :)
 
yes, my phrasal was no good
i think that finally answers my question :0)
it just hit me that $A$ is similar to that matrix, which settles the degree of the $(t-0)$ term in the minimal polynomial (it's $1$)
 
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