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12:02 AM
$(x_1 \cosh s+x_2\sinh s,x_1 \sinh s+x_2\cosh s)$
for a general point $(x_1,x_2)$
 
Well, keep going.
 
I don't know, maybe $cx^2-ky^2=g$ for some constants $c,k,g.$
 
Try harder.
 
Ted, how would you introduce co/sine to grade 10s?
 
$\frac{x^2}{a^2}-\frac{y^2}{b^2}=1$
 
12:11 AM
Using a right triangle?
 
Yes, you start with right triangles.
 
Would you change anything from the usual?
 
@Ultra: Sit down and work. If you want to be a math grad student, act like one.
 
I thought I got it though?
 
No.
@anakhro: I just taught precalculus last year in AoPS. I was reasonably happy with the standard approach to trig. You switch over to the circle (and then to $\Bbb R$), but I think it's fine to start with first quadrant only.
 
12:17 AM
How much leeway did AoPS give you in terms of how you taught?
 
Not that much, but I demanded leeway when I taught calculus. In both courses I wrote a number of my own problems for them to work on — especially the better students — because several of the students weren't challenged enough. But I couldn't get the kids to spend any time to write up stuff for me to criticize, which to me is the essential in learning mathematics — not just on-line homework.
I did a bit more in the way of proofs in calculus and even changed the exams a little bit. But it probably wasn't worth all my effort.
Whence my quitting.
One of the kids in my precalc class was one of the junior olympiad winners. He was amazing. A few of the calc kids could have been tremendous if I'd had them in an actual class with a grade ...
 
What were your challenging problems like?
 
Various sorts. In calculus, I gave them some of the problems I used to assign in my calc theory class. In trig, I had them set up some of the word problems that would show up in max/min problems using trig. Fill in steps of different proofs of the addition formulas, etc.
Oh yeah, and a proof of Heron's formula relating to the inscribed circle, etc.
 
Ah, I see. What do you think of calculus as a course itself?
Do you think that it's wise to compartmentalize it like they currently tend to do?
 
12:32 AM
Well, now the trend in the US is to flipping classrooms, so it's doing away with lectures and putting the responsibility on the students to watch some videos and work some practice problems before doing more serious groupwork in class the next day. I think that's an improvement over having dull lectures with passive students sitting in large lecture halls. But I never tried it myself. Had I not retired, I would have tried it in my multivariable math class using my videos. ...
I don't know what you mean by compartmentalizing. 95% of calculus students are there from science and engineering (and business — different clientele). The curriculum is driven by what their faculty want, not what pure mathematicians want.
 
My compartmentalize, I meant putting it in that tidy little box of methods for limits, continuity, differentiation, and a little integration.
As in, the material is very standardized and hardly varies.
 
Well, I don't know how to teach math as a mish-mash. I hate limits in college calculus.
Well, as I said, stuff is mostly standardized for the population needing it.
 
I agree about this "flipped class" being a bit more in the spirit of math.
Rather than watching someone do math on a board.
 
It shouldn't just be passive watching, but sadly, that's what most classes are.
However, I don't think the way stuff is organized is optimal. Particularly in multivariable calculus, I hate a lot of the way books are written/organized.
I have bitched for 40 years that most of the people who write calculus books are not "comfortable" with multivariable and don't think about it right.
 
12:51 AM
You wrote a multivariable text, didn't you? Did you do it right there?
 
1:21 AM
@TedShifrin how do disputes go?
about exams
 
1:47 AM
@Leaky: You'll have to be more specific.
 
@TedShifrin is Mobius strip x (0,1) orientable?
 
Of course not.
 
but it just looks like a fat torus?
 
LOL, no, it doesn't.
 
wait I'm confused
 
1:49 AM
It looks like a fat Möbius strip.
 
isn't it just a thickened Mobius strip
 
Compact $3$-manifolds are orientable, but not necessarily ones with boundary.
 
then you can rotate freely and you don't have the problem of "normal vector flips when I travel around one cycle" right
no I'm talking about the open Mobius strip
it's a 2-manifold right
 
If $M\times (0,1)$ is orientable, then so is $M$.
 
that's what I have been told
but what's wrong with my picture
 
1:51 AM
Forget normal vectors. Tell me how to orient the tangent space coherently everywhere.
 
firstly untwist it to make it a fat torus lol
then it's an open subset of R^3
 
The normal vector argument is for a hypersurface. When you cross with $(0,1)$ we're now in $\Bbb R^4$.
You better write down this "untwisting."
 
oh well it wouldn't be nice
I'm rotating inside a square
each slice looks like (0,1) x (0,1)
 
I have no idea what you're talking about.
 
the Mobius strip is an R-bundle on S^1
now I take direct sum with the trivial R-bundle
 
1:54 AM
Or interval bundle, OK.
 
is that what I'm doing?
how many R^2-bundles are there on S^1?
(that should be some cohomology group right)
 
$\pi_0(O(2))$.
Which is $\Bbb Z_2$.
 
what
hmm
lemme see
 
You trivialize over two intervals and look at the overlap (which is two intervals). So it depends on how many connected components you have in $GL(2)$ (or $O(2)$).
This is classically called the "clutching construction" for bundles on spheres.
It is basically Cech cohomology, yes.
 
what's the intuition
that there is a non-trivial R^2-bundle
 
1:56 AM
You just gave it.
 
what's the right picture that tells me that it's non-trivial
 
Let's try a different approach. Give me a nowhere-vanishing $3$-form on your thing.
 
hmm this is very trippy
 
LOL
If you integrate it $dt$ you'll get a nowhere-vanishing $2$-form on the Möbius strip, I do believe.
Anyhow, the simple answer to your question is to look at $S^1$-bundles over $S^1$. You either have a torus or you have a Klein bottle. You were forgetting about the latter.
 
hmm
 
2:02 AM
I have now left you with two arguments :P
You should in fact be able to convince yourself that you have a thickened Klein bottle, not torus.
The twist of the vector normal to the central circle will give you a Klein bottle.
 
2:33 AM
@TedShifrin if I have a cylinder clay
and twist one end by a half
and then glue two ends together
do I get a fat torus lol
 
2:46 AM
oh no do I have the wrong picture all along
 
Does every chain in that poset have an upper bound, though?
 
3:41 AM
No upper bound for the guy in the pic. He clearly trippin'
 
3:56 AM
I'm stuck on something probably silly
The third (or second for some people) isomorphism theorem says if $I ⊆ J ⊆ R$ are ideals in $R$ then $(R/I)/(J/I) \cong R/J$.
In the proof, we show that the map $\psi: R/I \to R/J$ given by $\psi(r+I) = r+J.$ We show that $\psi$ is a well-defined surjective ring homomorphism; and by the first isomorphism theorem $(R/I)/\ker(\psi) \cong R/J$.
 
we show that the map ... given by ... is what?
probably missing a "has kernel J/I" there
 
omg
@TedShifrin
what I had in mind was a tubular neighbourhood of the Mobius strip
not the thickened Mobius strip
 
@SohamChowdhury Indeed what I'm stuck on is seeing that the kernel is J/I.
 
let's call the kernel K
find a map from K to J that has kernel I
 
@LeakyNun There's no difference topologically.
 
4:03 AM
wait what
but the tubular neighbourhood is an open subset of R^3
hence "neighbourhood"
4
A: What is the object on the front of Larson and Edwards' calculus and pre-calculus textbooks called?

Zev ChonolesIt seems to me to be a thickened (and rather heavily stylized) Möbius strip, i.e., a torus with square cross section that is given a one-half twist. I made this image just now using the code from my math.SE question, Drawing a thickened Möbius strip in Mathematica

@TedShifrin what is this shape?
the mobius strip is $M = \Bbb R^2 / \Bbb Z$ where $n \cdot (x, y) = (x + n, (-1)^n y)$
this feels like a semidirect product
let's see why the candidate 2-form on $M$ isn't well-defined
it's just $\mathrm dx \land \mathrm dy$
oh well-defined <=> invariant under the pullback of the action
$1_\Bbb Z^\ast (\mathrm dx \land \mathrm dy) = \mathrm d(x+1) \land \mathrm d(-y) = -\mathrm dx \land \mathrm dy$
gg
ok now $M \times \Bbb R = \Bbb R^3 / \Bbb Z$ where $n \cdot (x, y, t) = (x+n, (-1)^n y, t)$
we have more room to define the 3-form
ah the frame in my head didn't work
it flipped the $t$ coordinate
 
4:36 AM
one thing I think will really help me along with what ive been reading is if someone can explain the logic behind the choice of the term algebraic integer, it has to be significant
to compensate for the confusion the choice makes, is it because algebraic integers are roots of monatomic polynomials with integer coefficents? I mean they use the term quadratic integer for quadratic fields
 
4:59 AM
@SohamChowdhury I been thinking about your hint. Would the map be $f: K \to J$ given by $f(I+r) = J$? Maybe the same can I say $J/I$ and $\ker(\psi)=K$ are either equal or disjoint, as cosets. But $I+r \in K \implies
I+r=J+0 \implies r \in J$, meaning $J/I = \ker(\psi).$
 
5:52 AM
whoever wrote the wiki for algebraic integer deserves many thanks I mean look at how many definitions this forces you to learn in order to see the equivalence of the one definition
 
What I wrote above was a car crash.

$I+r \in \ker(\psi) \implies I+r = J+0_R \implies r \in J. $ Likewise,
$r \in J \implies \psi(I+r) = J+r = J+0_R \implies I+r \in \ker(\psi)$

This amounts to say $\ker(\psi) = \left\{ I+r: r \in J \right\}$, i.e. $ \ker(\psi) = J/I$.
 
 
5 hours later…
10:48 AM
@LeakyNun There are two I^2-bundles on S^1, one is Mobius strip $\oplus$ I and the other S^1 x I^2 which is also Mobius strip $\oplus$ Mobius strip
You likely confused with the second thing.
 
@Adam Well, let $K$ be a subfield of a field $L$. Let $a\in L$. Do you know what is meant by '$a$ is algebraic over $K$'? Do you know what it means for an element to be integral? Maybe you would prefer integral integer :P.
 
An $\epsilon$-neighborhood of the Moebius strip in $\Bbb R^3$ is indeed the solid torus. It cannot be $M \times (0, 1)$ because any open subset of $\Bbb R^3$ is necessarily orientable.
The point is the "normal bundle" to the Moebius strip along the center circle is also a Moebius strip
That's why you get Moebius $\oplus$ Moebius as your bundle
 
@BalarkaSen Visually, I have no idea what alternative there would be
 
There is none
 
Was $M\times (0,1)$ mentioned above?
 
10:57 AM
Yes
 
Oh okay, I thought that seemed strange
 
Afternoon friends
 
@LeakyNun This picture is exactly Mobius $\oplus$ Mobius (you imagine taking a cross X and then twisting it around and coming back to the same point), hence a solid torus :)
 
11:20 AM
@BalarkaSen I disagree, the obvious flat connection here is different than Mobius + Mobius
In the direct sum the holonomy is -1. But in the picture above the holonomy is i, rotation by 90 degrees.
 
Ah alright it's a cube glued end-to-end by half-twist
I didn't notice that there wasn't a full-twist
Leaky surely meant the one with a full-twist as his picture
 
Ah, since he was talking about a tubular neighborhood of Mobius. Sure.
 
Good call though
(I guess I meant half-twist as opposed to quarter-twist, but w/e)
@MikeMiller I always forget the definition of $K$-theory. $\tilde{K}^0(S^1)$ is $\Bbb Z_2$, right? Generated by the 2-torsion class of the Mobius strip
 
Z/2 + Z, don't forget rank.
Your torsion factor is generated my M - 1
 
Oh that's why I reduced I think
$\tilde{K}^0$ is kernel of the $K^0(X) \to K^0(pt)$ right
 
11:35 AM
Oh I missed the tilde
Yes
 
Nice, thanks
 
@TedE no can you give me an example to work from I get how to write out all algebraic integers of a particular degree in set builder notation but yeah can you give an example
 
I suppose $\tilde{K}^0(S^9)$ is also $\Bbb Z_2$, because of Bott periodicity?
$\widetilde{K}^0(X)$ is $[X, BO \times \Bbb Z]_{pt}$ I think
I can forget about the formalism and check this directly; rank $n$ vector bundles over $S^9$ are classified by $\pi_8(O(n))$ by clutching construction, and taking direct sum with trivial bundle correspond to pushing forward this class by $O(n) \to O(n+1)$, including an orthogonal $n \times n$ matrix as a block consisting of 1 in top-left corner and the $n \times n$ block below
So the stable class lies in $\pi_8(O)$ as promised, and homotopy groups of $O$ are $8$-periodic is the classical Bott periodicity theorem
I wonder what the vector bundle over $S^9$ corresponding to the nontrivial stable class looks like
 
11:56 AM
Pointed maps, aka [X, BO]
 
Yeah
 
@BalarkaSen I am not sure it can look like much anything except its clutching function
 
haha yeah its folly of me to think that its anything familiar
 
12:44 PM
crae
 
If $\Bbb F$ is a field and $R = \Bbb F[x,y]$ I'm being told that $\Bbb F$ has an R module structure induced by the quotient map $\Bbb F[x,y]\twoheadrightarrow \Bbb F$. I fail to understand what this means, would anyone be able to shed some light on this?
 
@Astyx Make $x$ and $y$ act by $0$
 
So it's just the projection on the constant term ?
 
Yup
 
Ok ... that's less complicated than I anticipated
 
1:00 PM
evening, chat
 
Hi @Soham
@Astyx In general if you have a ring homomorphism $A \to B$ then $B$ naturally gets an $A$-module structure. This is called an $A$-algebra structure.
 
who starred my stupid kernel line
as someone who has never participated in inane starring shenanigans, i'm offended
 
Right, that makes sense
 
(nor have i ever put effectful latex that redefines standard commands in the starboard)
 
1:16 PM
@SohamChowdhury give up the charade. We know you logged into one of your alts and starred it yourself.
 
So if I look at $\phi : p \mapsto (xp, yp)$ and $\psi : (p,q) \mapsto yp-xq$ this gives me a projective resolution of $\Bbb F$ of the form $0 \to R \to R\oplus R\to R$ right ?
 
@anakhro I'll pay you good money to not reveal my techniques for (checks) MSE chat domination
 
Deal.
 
@Astyx Cokernel of the last map is $\Bbb F$, yeah
It is indeed a free $\Bbb F[x, y]$-resolution of $\Bbb F$
 
Is $(R\oplus R)\otimes \Bbb F = \Bbb F$ ?
 
1:28 PM
Is the tensor in F?
 
Over $R$
 
Well that's still true since R\otimes_R M is isomorphic to M,
 
But it's (R plus R) otimes_R M not R otimes_R M
Shouldn't it be M oplus M
 
Yes, sorry.
For some reason I didn't distribute.
One problem I really liked with the tensor product was finding Q/Z\otimes_Z Q/Z
Once you find it, it's kind of painfully easy, but I like how cute it is.
 
Note that your resolution can also be thought as a free resolution of the module (x, y) over R = F[x, y], as 0 -> R -> R oplus R -> (x, y) -> 0
Which says (x, y) is not a flat F[x, y]-module
The algebro-geometric interpretation of that is that (x, y) is like the skyscraper sheaf at the point (0, 0) in A^2, so the fibers "vary drastically" point-to-point
Spec F -> Spec F[x, y] given by dualzing F[x, y] -> F[x, y]/(x, y) = F is not a flat morphism
(One can of course alternately argue that any f.g. flat module is projective and projective modules over polynomial rings are free by Quillen-Suslin, and (x, y) is not a free F[x, y]-module :))
 
1:42 PM
Hi, any chance I can have a conversation about an exercise from Rudin functional analysis?
 
Depends on the exercise, just ask your question
 
It's problem 3 from chapter 2. I've asked a question about it: math.stackexchange.com/questions/3232283/…
I had my thoughts but still I can't quite figure
I was hoping to have a conversation about this exercise to see whether or not my thoughts make sense
 
Too analytical for me
@Balarka some neat dark wizardry in combinatorics/graph theory: golem.ph.utexas.edu/category/2019/12/…
 
Combinatorics is mathemagics.
 
@Astyx Tensoring $0 \to R \to R^2 \to R \to F = R/M \to 0$ with $F$ says that $0 \to F \to F^2 \to F \to F \to 0$ is our chain complex where all maps except the last $F \to F$ becomes zero I think, so $\text{Tor}^2_R(F, F) \cong F$.
And $\text{Tor}^1(M, F) \cong \text{Tor}^2(F, F)$, so that means $\text{Tor}^1(M, F) \cong F$, which is the witness of $M = (x, y)$ being not flat over $R = F[x, y]$
I did this exercise in Weibel at some point
 
2:01 PM
Right
 
@Alessandro Seems interesting
 
It's really neat
 
@anakhro That's a good one. It's 0 isn't it? You pair up coprime torsions in either factors
 
That's what I got as well, at least for the $\text{Tor}$ part
 
And then use Z/m tensor_Z Z/n = 0 if (m, n) = 1
@Astyx Neat!
 
2:04 PM
I just do it by analyzing a typical simple tensor, @BalarkaSen
 
2:24 PM
@BalarkaSen what on earth is $\operatorname{Tor}^1$ and $\operatorname{Tor}^2$
 
DON'T YOU KNOW WHAT AN EXPONENT IS, LEAKY?
GOSH
 
@BalarkaSen what is this whole half-twist/full-twist/quarter-twist controversy above
aren't they all homeomorphic
 
In all seriousness, he's just doing the nth Tor group as Tor^n
I think
Tor homology ish thing
Well I guess that would be Tor_n
 
@BalarkaSen what would you call Mobius strip x [0,1] and where can I find a picture of it?
 
@AlessandroCodenotti the Prof replied, he asked if i was attending his lecture course because he likes to get to know students better before supervising their theses. I‘m not attending his course atm because I don’t have the background for it but I would do so in the future lol, otherwise he didn’t say no! He invited me to come and speak to him first
 
2:33 PM
Nice
 
Oh and he also asked to see my bachelors dissertation, which could be good or bad lol
 
I guess it's just a solid Klein bottle
 
3:04 PM
@LeakyNun in a tensor product, it's notationally correct to write $0 = x\otimes 0 = 0\otimes y$, right?
 
yes
 
Weird.
 
how so
$(0,0) = 0$ in direct sum
@loch hi
 
Yes, I am just trying to decode a remark made by the marker of one of my assignments.
And I don't see what he's saying.
 
what remark
 
3:06 PM
Question is to show Q\otimes_Z Q is isomorphic to Q.
And I first showed for simple tensors: (p/q)\otimes (r/s) = (pr/(qs))\otimes 1.
Then I define the obvious map on simple tensors to Q (projection to the first coordinate here).
Then extend linearly.
 
remark, "first coordinate" isn't well-defined
 
That's not the remark he made.
It might be related, though.
 
go on
 
Then I showed this map was surjective and injective.
 
what would be better, is to define the map by $x \otimes y \mapsto xy$
this gives a well-defined map due to the universal property
because multiplication is bilinear
what was the remark
 
3:10 PM
He has circled $x\otimes 1 \mapsto x$ and left the remark "why can't we have $x\otimes 1 = 0$?".
 
yeah
you remember "injective iff f(x) = 0 implies x=0"?
that's the opposite direction
"well-defined iff x=0 implies f(x)=0"
 
Yes, and I showed that.
 
so I think it's the same remark
that projection to first coordinate isn't (necessarily) well-defined
try doing that for Z/2 (x) Z/2
then you would have $2 \otimes 1 \mapsto 2$
this seems to define a map to Z
maybe this isn't a good counter-example
 
I don't see really what the problem is...
 
you just aren't using the universal property I guess
it's dangerous to define maps without using the universal property
 
3:14 PM
So I should have said "universal property" somewhere.
Because my map is the same as the one you gave.
 
rather than saying $x \otimes 1 \mapsto x$
which is manipulating the elements directly
idk
 
Because it's like one continuous process, $\frac pq\otimes\frac rs \mapsto \frac{pr}{qs}\otimes 1\mapsto\frac{pr}{qs}$.
 
when the author uses the addition symbol here it just means $\cup$ right? math.stackexchange.com/questions/192605/…
 
So if you have $0$, then one of $p$ or $r$ is zero, and this maps it to 0.
Maybe I am just crazy stupid, though, and too thick to see the problem.
@Adam I suspect that since he uses union elsewhere, it is actually an addition, not union.
Like he means take each element in the set {1,3,5,7} and add any positive multiple of 7 to it. This is your set.
i.e. {1,3,5,7, 1+7,3+7,5+7,7+7, 1+2*7,3+2*7,5+2*7,7+2*7, ...}
 
I'm not sure what your map is @anakhro. Try Z/6 otimes Z/4. Then the map x otimes 1 to x, Z/6 (x) Z/4 -> Z/6 is not a real Mao. The domain is isomorphic to Z/2.
 
3:27 PM
@MikeMiller my map is on Q\otimes_Z Q.
 
If you already showed somehow that there's a unique x so that an elementary tensor is equal to x (x) 1 in Q (x)_Z Q then fine. But how did you show this?
It all seems a bit silly when multiplication is an obvious homomorphism from one to the other, which is exactly the map you want to describe
 
I suppose I didn't show uniqueness.
What I wrote was just the algebra that sends $\frac pq\otimes\frac rs$ to $\frac{pr}{qs}\otimes 1$.
In full: $\frac pq\otimes \frac rs = \frac pq\frac ss\otimes \frac rs = \frac{p}{qs}\otimes r = \frac{pr}{qs}\otimes 1$.
(I actually showed more, but in case you didn't know what I meant).
To show uniquness clearly I suppose I have to have $x\otimes 1 = y\otimes 1 \implies (x-y)\otimes 1 = 0 \implies x-y = 0 \implies x=y$.
 
@anakhro ok thanks yeah I can see why he/she choose that notation it's the simplest way to represent that
 
@Adam It's not a horrible notation, but yeah it might be confusing if you aren't following it.
It's kind of an abuse of notation. :P
But as long as the writer and reader both agree, then it's fine.
@MikeMiller would you really expect that extra bit $x\otimes 1 = y\otimes 1 \implies [...]$?
I can imagine in a different tensor product it might be needed just to be sure...but Q\otimes_Z Q...
 
I mean you need to check it. It's not possible in Q o_Z Q. But a proof checks that
 
3:45 PM
@LeakyNun derived functors of the tensor product functor :3
@LeakyNun A duck and a goat are homeomorphic, doesn't mean they are the "same pictures"
Mike set up the right context: there's a natural flat connection that depends on how many twists you use to identify the sides of the square. So they are not isomorphic as flat bundles
 
@MikeMiller what do you mean by "It's not possible"?
 
@LeakyNun I would call it Moebius strip x [0, 1]. You will not find a picture because open Moebius strip x (0, 1) does not embed as a submanifold of R^3 because any open subset of R^3 is orientable
 
Suppose we have observations $z_i=(x_i, y_i)$ independently draw from p(x, y).
 
@BalarkaSen there might be an alien colony with a picture of it.
 
Possible!
 
3:52 PM
One of my favourite professors always would throw out a disclaimer when he said he can't think in >3 dimensions, "but perhaps one of you are an alien from a distant planet and can do so".
 
@BalarkaSen I mean we do have pictures of Klein bottle
 
@anakhro His point is you have to show x o 1 = 0 implies x = 0 in Q o_Z Q. This is not true in Z/3 o Z/2, 1 o 1 = 0 does not imply 1 = 0 in Z/3
 
Why can $p(z_i)$ be written as $\prod_i p(y_i \mid x_i)$? I would like to note that I understand that, given that the observations are independently drawn, then the joint distribution of $p(z_i)$ could be written as $\prod_i p(z_i)$, but why does it become a conditional?
 
Hence "It's not possible in Q o_Z Q"
In fact to prove this you have to use universal property with the multiplication map Q o_Z Q -> Q anyway rendering what you were doing a bit roundabout
 
@BalarkaSen so how would one go about doing this. I thought it was fairly "obvious" from looking at it.
By multiplication map, you just mean on simple tensors, right?
Because that's exactly what my map is.
 
3:58 PM
I mean there is a ring multiplication map Q x Q -> Q which factors through Q o_Z Q -> Q by bilinearity and universality
No reference to elementwise thinking is necessary
In general also observe that tensoring an R-module with Frac(R) is localization at (0)
 
@BalarkaSen so the picture above is also the normal bundle right
 
Yes
 
Yeah, I think it's best to avoid elementwise thinking since it's hard to make precise anyway.
You have a nice surjective map given by the universal property --- investigate its kernel
 
Agreed. I learned that the hard way
 
4:13 PM
@BalarkaSen sorry, I am confused over the term "multiplication map". It was advised that there was the map $x\otimes y \mapsto xy$. Is this the one you are meaning, or which one?
 
Forget simple tensors. There is a map $\Bbb Q \times \Bbb Q \to \Bbb Q$, $(r, s) \mapsto rs$. The ring multiplication of $\Bbb Q$. This is billinear, yes?
 
Yes. So you are just meaning this map, got it.
 
Right.
 
I was just confused what map it was you were discussing.
So how would I finish it via my method? I have a map $x\otimes y \mapsto xy$, but I have to show that this is well-defined to finish off with the surjectivity/injectivity (thus showing the isomorphism)?
 
Surjectivity is clear. Injectivity requires some work, and that's where you start to play with actual elements.
 
4:26 PM
I meant, what's the thing I can do to salvage my method.
 
I mean the map you just stated isn't your method, it's the linear map induced by multiplication. It's how we are suggesting thinking about the map from the tensor product.
I thought your method was to write everything as x o 1 and forget the 1.
 
My method is to start by defining the map $x\otimes y \mapsto xy$.
Via two steps: $x\otimes y \mapsto xy\otimes 1 \mapsto xy$.
And then extend linearly over the simple tensors
 
Why are you doing something so convoluted? Your map is literally just x otimes y mapsto xy. You don't need to observe that xy o 1 also maps there.
 
@anakhro You wan to prove $1 \otimes x = 0$ implies $x = 0$. To do this, consider the bilinear map $\Bbb Q \times \Bbb Q \to \Bbb Q$ which factors through the linear map $\Bbb Q \otimes \Bbb Q \to \Bbb Q$, and $(1, x)$ gets sent to $x$. Image of $(1, x)$ by $\Bbb Q \times \Bbb Q \to \Bbb Q \otimes \Bbb Q$ is $1 \otimes x$, so $1 \otimes x = 0$ would force $x = 0$.
 
Also remember that in R o_Z R we usually do not have r o s = 1 o rs, that's special here.
 
4:31 PM
So the only way to salvage your method is to factor through what we are suggesting
 
Sloppy argument you only checked injectivity on simple tensors
Fixable
 
@MikeMiller it's not convoluted, it's how I approached the problem, and my thought process that led up to it.
@BalarkaSen thanks!
 
If you want the element based defn of tensor product, it's freely generated by symbols v o w, modulo the relations (cv) o w = v o (cw) and (v+w) o u = v o u + w o u and v o (w + u) = v o w + v o u. These relations are satisfied for any bilinear map, like multiplication, so that multiplication defines a map on Q o_Z Q to Q
 
4:51 PM
1
Q: Space $\mathcal{D}_K$ in Rudin - Functional analysis

user8469759From chapter 1 we have the following definition of space $\mathcal{D}_K$. If $K$ is a compact set in $\mathbb{R}^n$ then $\mathcal{D}_K$ denotes the space of all $f \in C^{\infty}(\mathbb{R}^n)$ whose support lies in $K$. The topology on such space is introduced by the family of seminorms ...

 
5:12 PM
Hi all
0
Q: About $a_n = \frac{a_{n-1}(a_{n-1} + C)}{a_{n-2}} , t(12,13) = \frac{3}{2}$

mickLet $A,B,C > 0 $ $a_1 = A$ $a_2 = B$ For integer $ n > 2 : $ $$a_n = \frac{a_{n-1}(a_{n-1} + C)}{a_{n-2}}.$$ $$ T = \lim_{k \to \infty} \frac{a_k}{ a_{k - 1}}.$$ Notice the limit seems to depend on 3 variables, but actually only depends on 2 ; $A/C,B/C$. You can check that if you multiply...

 
5:36 PM
@anakhro For the sake of syntax, I hope your professor says "one of you ... is an alien" :P
 
This episode of "Grammar For You and Me", brought to you by Dr. Ted Shifrin.
stands to clap.
 
@anakhro how can I determine all elements of the subset of $\mathbb Z[x]$ if I am given a presumed to be algebraic integer? like all the possible monic polynomials with integer coeffs
or what is the most efficient algorithm for doing so i mean
 
What subset?
Was there context with this question I should know?
 
the subset of all monic polynomials with integer coeffs that a given algebraic integer is a root of like you know how you can do with Einsteinian integers by getting the first polynomial, and then generalizing by introducing two variables and making a linear combination
whats the name of this process i guess
 

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