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12:00 AM
(Which is not a good thing to have if a person wants to learn something)
 
Yeah, they assume all the people responding on MSE are as unqualified as they are? :P
 
"I was assuming the notation was known" wasn't about the subject matter
 
I mean, some are, don't get me wrong!
First of all, DogAteMy, my first question was: Is this in $\Bbb R^2$ or $\Bbb R^3$? He never even answered or addressed that, did he?
On the other hand, I think this OP's response is quite fine. I am pleased the person took my comment seriously and is trying to learn.
But, in fairness, I'm glad you're more generous and patient at your young age, DogAteMy.
 
Is there a special term for a permutation with only one fixed point?
Or, "at most one" fixed point?
 
An almost-derangement?
 
12:11 AM
That's pretty good, I like it
 
LOL
 
Near-derangement is also a decent option
 
As long as your reader isn't deranged.
 
bleh
 
Perhaps a "semideranged" permutation :P
 
12:13 AM
ah, but those have n/2 fixed points
 
LOL ...
 
For the sake of checking the above claim I went to Tao's blog and discovered the following comment (not quite what was asked for, but alas):
"There’s something I just don’t understand, why bother with all this crap? There are much easier ways to earn 1 million than go for a millennium problem. What is the point of math at all? This world is all about shallowness, money, status, only a naive person who never grew out of that innocent teen mentality would waste his life on these useless and intractable problems. You publish some result that takes years in the making, only to have less than 50
 
That's a very bitter Ph.D. student.
But, to be honest, I put more effort into teaching throughout my career because I wanted to make a difference, and having a handful of people who would read my best papers wasn't infinitely fulfilling.
And then out of nowhere, someone starts asking me questions in a comment, with questions almost nothing to do with the original question. Agh!
I think I'm having a bad day. Even ignoring the world.
 
That's a fairly dreary and fatalistic comment, Thorgott
 
Grad school is a dehumanizing experience for a lot of students, no matter how successful.
But the ad hominem attack on Terry Tao doesn't seem warranted.
 
12:27 AM
Just sounds like someone who isn't where he/she wants to be in life and is bitter because of that
 
I wonder what makes it dehumanizing. The work load misbalanced against the level of appreciation, maybe?
 
It sounds like that person wants to live in "heaven on Earth"
But, unfortunately, that's not how the human brain works. No matter how good your situation is, the human mind tries to find problems to fix.
 
Well, very few people go into research in mathematics believing they'll win a Fields medal or other accolades.
 
the implication that one would attempt solving a millennium problem for the money is pretty funny to me
 
12:29 AM
It's when you obsess about the problems that you become miserable
 
Hasn't it become trendy to reject prize money? lol
 
who else has done it (besides Perelman)?
 
I can't remember! fails to back up claim but I feel like I've read it on several occasions
 
That's the only one I think I know about.
But I'm de-looped.
 
Does the Fields have prize money?
 
12:32 AM
Sad, maybe I'm just talking out of my butt
 
heh delooped
 
Ah - 15,000 Canadian dollars according to Google
(Canadian?!)
 
A token amount, I think, DogAteMy.
 
15k canadian dollars
oh sniped
 
well, we have to wait for the next millennium problem to be solved to see whether Perelman was a trendsetter or not then
 
12:33 AM
Nobel is north of a million.
 
Alright, my only contribution is word-play apparently. Guess I should find something more productive to do for now. :D
 
Not getting enough recognition, @user714630? :D
 
That's right.
 
(unrelated: homemade french fries are better than non-homemade french fries)
 
@Thorgott I don't know where I got the comment about the rejection of prize money, it seems like it's entirely fabricated hahaha
 
12:34 AM
I don't deep fry things, @Rithaniel, but I like the potatoes I make ...
 
Word-play can sometimes be a great contribution
 
What about French-made fried homes
 
puts a muzzle on @ÍgjøgnumMeg because of his tendency to fabricate
 
I pan fry. Deep fry makes a huge mess
 
I rarely fabricate!
I just act entirely on instinct, like a rabid animal
 
12:35 AM
Well, first tell me what a fried home is
 
instinctually proving all the theorems
 
A type of animal that has evolved to solve math problems
 
The wooly mammath
sorry
 
LOL, I wonder if there's a limit to the degeneracy of this conversation.
 
12:37 AM
Ted, you should know when a function isn't bounded
 
I left when it became almost deranged
 
Only one fix point remains, and it is Ted
 
I thought it was only semideranged
(Damn, that much quicker…!)
 
if a permutation with no fixed points is a derangement, then what is a rangement?
 
12:40 AM
is Ted attractive or repulsive though?
 
It's called repelling in mathematics. People find me repulsive.
 
The third option would be a saddle point
Attractive at first until you get close enough
:P
 
makes a note to take a shower next month
 
Ah, I wasn't actually sure what it's called
 
Next--! :D
 
12:42 AM
morning, chat
 
I think the question is less about attraction and more about morality once you start introducing saddles
 
@Leaky: Look up "déranger" in French ... And "ranger" is the opposite: to make neat or organize.
Soham, you always think we're in your time zone.
 
Is it 6am where you are? @SohamChowdhury
 
6:12, yes
 
Ah, like disorganization and organization?
 
12:43 AM
and no, Ted, I merely expect you to say "good late evening" back :P
 
Although I suppose in English you could have derangement vs arrangement
 
not in the sense of a company, DogAteMy, but in the sense of being in order.
Yeah, that's probably apt.
@Soham: It's very early evening, late afternoon where I am.
 
Ideally the company's organized in some way
 
Hey @Soham
Good night here
 
12:45 AM
"organ" and "organize" is a good example of semantic shift
 
Ted, do you have any intuition on exotic spheres?
 
isn't it kind of a pity that you can't tell people "good night" when greeting them at night without making them think you're going to sleep
 
Absolutely none, DogAteMy, sorry.
 
Theoretically Niles Johnson has a video promising to "visualize" them but I have no idea what's going on
 
12:45 AM
we have good evening for that
 
i love when you realise that a word used to exist but no longer does except in a derived form
see "ruth" and "ruthless"
 
So you say "good evening" ...
Sniped.
 
:P
 
well, the name Ruth exists
 
"Have a nice night"
 
12:46 AM
saying good evening at 1am is kinda weird
 
"Why tf are you awake"
 
I've heard "have a good night" for that
 
"Sleep time now", "bed please"
 
"deranged gargling"
 
"Night-night"
 
12:47 AM
it's nearing 2am here, which I don't think qualifies as "evening" anymore
 
Right
You're in Germany right?
 
I've been greeting people with "How's life"
 
@AkivaWeinberger the very original meaning (root?) is PIE *werǵ- (“work”)
 
yeah
 
@LeakyNun of?
 
12:47 AM
2 mins ago, by Leaky Nun
"organ" and "organize" is a good example of semantic shift
 
Oh I missed that
 
@Thorgott where in Germany? :P
 
Organize + order = orderize
@SohamChowdhury Disheveled and unkempt
Sheveled and kempt
 
disarray
 
"arrayed" is still around
 
12:49 AM
desuetude
 
@LeakyNun That means sense though
 
kinda dated but usable
 
I remember when I was in college we had an hour-long discussion of "negative" words with no "positive" analogues.
 
Overmorrow!!!
 
We had dozens and dozens; I should have written them down.
 
12:50 AM
nowadays one can just google them
 
In Hebrew we have machar for tomorrow, and machartáyim for the day after tomorrow. It's literally machar with the dual plural form
 
Disgruntled
 
preemptively gets off Ted's lawn
 
No real way to translate it
 
Yes, Leaky, 1972 predated googling.
 
12:50 AM
@Akiva all of the germanic languages except English use "overmorrow"
 
in Cantonese we have ting1 yat9 for tomorrow and hao6 yat9 for the day after tomorrow
both equally short :P
 
disabuse (sb of the notion that ______)
 
@ÍgjøgnumMeg Frankfurt
 
Ah cool :)
 
If something can be looked up, is it uplookable? (I think Dutch does that)
 
12:51 AM
and also vorgestern
for the other way around
 
ereyesterday!
 
I don't know any language that can string together so many words into one word ... like German. Literally a word several lines long.
 
@Akiva yeah German does this
Generally the west germanic languages do this, nordic languages do this less often
 
@AkivaWeinberger opzoekbaar has 4210 hits on Google
 
Rindfleischetikettierungsüberwachungsaufgabenübertragungsgesetz
 
12:53 AM
We are becoming the linguistics chat.
 
lol the canonical example
 
hope I got that right
 
I've never seen that one!
 
pork ... ticketing ... overwatching (supervision?) ... ... ... law ?
 
With my eyesight declining I've always wanted supervision
 
12:54 AM
The other example is of course: Donau­dampfschifffahrts­elektrizitäten­hauptbetriebswerk­bauunterbeamten­gesellschaft
Being an example of a word with a -fff-
 
nice
 
And all English can do is supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
 
is there a special ligature for fff
 
I don't know! Maybe
 
depends on font package
 
12:55 AM
This is just a quirk of the writing system, though - I think spoken German is unremarkable here
 
I like the ct ligature that nobody does
 
Of course, these are nothing compared to true agglutinative languages like Turkish and Finnish lol
 
You can't see spaces
 
I think -eee- is funnier to do: Teeei
 
What is a word, anyway?
 
12:55 AM
Tee-ei?
why would you want an egg at teatime
 
Why wouldn't you
 
the english term is "tea infuser", apparently
 
it sounds like T-A-I
 
Entscheidungsproblem is the only long German word I really have any reason to know
 
lol nice
 
12:56 AM
That's unremarkable, though, DogAteMy.
 
how about Hauptidealsatz
 
Nullstellensatz is longer but similar
barely longer
 
which I think goes basically syllable-by-syllable to the English "deciding problem"
 
i wonder if deciding has the same thing going on as Entscheidung where scheiden means something like to separate
was ciding ever a word
 
Ent- is the same as "un-"
So "unseparate"
 
12:58 AM
Something like how decision and incision are related
 
oh fair
 
the latin prefixes don't really have anything to do with the meaning of the word
 
incise exists, decise is decide now
 
@Soham I didn't see the second message so sorry if you already knew that
 
12:59 AM
And excision
Discover is fun
 
This whole discussion is very exciding.
 
if you put it like this, the word entscheiden makes little sense
 
haha it's fine Meg
 
The connection to "uncover" is neat
 
i have to take my hands off the keyboard to @ @ÍgjøgnumMeg, none of the arrow keys work to navigate in the popup list
 
1:00 AM
Discover - discovery. Uncover - uncovery?
 
Entdecken, Entdeckung
 
I'm still upset that the receive/reception/receipt deceive/deception/deceit breaks down in the spelling for no reason
Should be deceipt
(or, alternatively, receit, which might be more sensible)
 
conception/conceit?
concept?
 
Huh
Weird
A dream inside a dream - Inception
A person inside a person - Conception
 
does inceive exist
 
1:02 AM
(inb4 "inception just means beginning")
 
a bill inside a wallet - receipt
perception/perceipt aka "image"
 
according to google, the p in receipt is purely etymological
 
Yes. But the etymology of deceit is near-identical
@ÍgjøgnumMeg
 
fair, the thing I read just says that the pronunciation comes from the French, but the spelling from the Latin
 
A Digest of the Laws of England, 1793
 
1:05 AM
Hm
 
Faroese orthography is motivated almost entirely by etymology
 
You know, a while back, someone on Reddit tried to tell me that the reason Chaucer (14th cent) spoke differently than we do is because he didn't have access to a dictionary
 
The Supreme Court on Criminal Law, 1950 to 1966, with a Supplement Incorporating Cases from January to December 1967: The expression "fraud" involves two elements, deceipt, and either injury to the person deceived or advantage to the author of the deceipt as a result of the deceipt or both.
someone on reddit told me that every redditor is a liar
4
 
moral of the chat: all math degenerates into paradox
 
language games*
 
1:10 AM
2 days ago, by Ted E
Do you even know the definitions of the words you are using?
 
Math is language games. At some point we can't keep track of the meanings of the symbols, and directly manipulate the symbols themselves
 
@AkivaWeinberger I feel like the cause of semantic shift is that we don't know the definition of the words we're using
 
@AkivaWeinberger Nah, justh cegoh aeotnehi tnhoet
 
I think this edit was correct (at least in the context of the answer) and should not have been rejected: math.stackexchange.com/review/suggested-edits/1296593. Is it possible to re-evaluate the suggested edit? The calculated value doesn't hold with the current expression in the answer.
 
-2
Q: Tommy’s amazing new lim for the golden number ?!

mickTommy’s amazing new lim for the golden number ?! While we were playing a game of chess I asked my friend tommy if he knew a nice limit for the golden number. Immediately he answered this $a_1 = 1.$ $a_2 = 2$ For integer $ n > 2 : $ $$a_n = \frac{a_{n-1}(a_{n-1} + \frac{1}{3})}{a_{n-2}}.$$ ...

 
1:12 AM
what
 
the axiomatization of mathematics was just an elaborate cover-up to hide that - deep down - we don't know anything and all that we pretend to be knowledge is inherently self-referential and based on implicit pretense
 
@an4s This isn't the place to bring that up.
 
@an4s Why would it be $5-k$
 
@Thorgott That's how I honestly feel when I read a clever Zorn's lemma argument.
 
@user714630 what is this supposed to mean
 
1:21 AM
@LeakyNun "$baab=aabaa=ababa=babba$"
 
@AkivaWeinberger With 2^k: https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=10%21%2F2%5E5+-+sum+%28-1%29%5E%28k%2B1%29%285+choose+k%29%2810-k%29%21%2F2%5E%7Bk%7D%2C+k%3D1+to+5
With 2^{5-k}: https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=10%21%2F2%5E5+-+sum+%28-1%29%5E%28k%2B1%29%285+choose+k%29%2810-k%29%21%2F2%5E%7B5-k%7D%2C+k%3D1+to+5

Either the given statement is incorrect or the calculated answer is. Also, if you look at one of the comments of the answer, it looks like 2^{5-k} is correct.
 
Then put it as a comment on the answer, not an edit
 
as was once said about Choice, "The axiom gets its name not because mathematicians prefer it to other axioms."
 
Ok, thanks
 
I think the well-ordering lemma feels like a good assumption. Map the reals to the ordinals one at a time 'til you run out
 
1:26 AM
does the set of all countable ordinals exist?
 
Yes, even without choice
$\omega_1$
 
yeah but philosophically?
 
Does the set of all relations on $\Bbb N$ exist? @LeakyNun
This is the power set of $\Bbb N^2$
Now look at the subset of those relations that are total orders
and map them to their order types
The only philosophically questionable thing, I think, is the power set axiom
 
the power set of $\Bbb N$ is an issue
 
This discussion needs Alessandro.
 
1:29 AM
your $\Pi_1$ specification is an issue
and how are you going to specify to well-orders
 
@LeakyNun Remind me what that means?
 
$\forall$ something
 
@LeakyNun Total orders such that all sunsets have a minimum
(Sunsets, yes)
 
now you're one power-set deeper
 
this conversation is going into scary territory
 
1:30 AM
how can we quantify over all subsets?
 
You can restrict to more annoying computable theories if you want
 
Zero sharp was defined by Silver and Solovay as follows. Consider the language of set theory with extra constant symbols c1, c2, ... for each positive integer. Then 0# is defined to be the set of Gödel numbers of the true sentences about the constructible universe, with ci interpreted as the uncountable cardinal ℵi. (Here ℵi means ℵi in the full universe, not the constructible universe.)
 
I like the full power of ZFC 'cause if something can't be done there, it certainly can't be done in a computable setting
 
this is a subset of $\Bbb N$
does this subset of $\Bbb N$ exist?
if it exists, then "V=L" is false
 
Wait what are $\aleph_i$ doing there I don't understand
Oh wait I misread
 
1:34 AM
so $G"c_1 \in c_2" \in 0\#$
 
Does the constructible universe depend on the constants being there
 
the constructible universe contains every ordinal
2
A: Cardinal is not absolute

ReeseIn fact, I'd go a little further and say that cardinal properties are seldom absolute. Remember, "absolute" means that the property's truth value doesn't change when you move between larger and smaller models. Even being a cardinal is not absolute. For example, it's fairly straightforward to con...

 
How can the statements be able the constructible universe if the constants are about the full universe
So annoying how there's no standard model of ZFC like there is with PA
 
$(M \vDash \forall x \phi) := (\vDash \forall x ((x \in M) \to \phi))$
you just use the set to restrict the quantifiers
 
@an4s You're absolutely right. I made that edit as well as a couple other fixes.
 
1:42 AM
I like a computable universe in theory but I also want a function $h(T)$ that says "$T$ halts"
And then I'd need a new halting oracle for that, and we're back up the ordinal hierarchy
and we're back where we started
@LeakyNun I don't know if $0^\#$ exists, but I trust all the arithmetic statements it implies
All the questions worth asking are really arithmetic statements
Is choice true? Meh
Can ZFC prove choice? Ah!
 
Wow ... we've devolved into linguistics+set theory. I miss the good ol' days. :P
 
"does $\omega_1$ exist" isn't an arithmetic statement
 
Hm, you got me
Its existence is guaranteed by ZFC
That's arithmetic, at least
But also is "Does $\omega_1$ exist" really worth asking
 
no
 
God created the integers, etc etc
The sets were never created
 
1:52 AM
We atheists take issue.
 
That's not the point, though - the point is I trust questions about integers (and, equivalently, Turing machines)
I don't trust questions like "Does $0^\#$ exist"
 
I prefer "Suppose $0^{\#}$ exists..."
 
I don't trust quantifying over subsets of $\Bbb N$
that's the issue with "does 0# exist"
because it's really "does there exist a subset of $\Bbb N$ such that blah blah blah"
 
\#, Rith
 
Danke
 
1:56 AM
Also I feel like the # symbol should just be a hash. "#YOLO" is a tag with a hash in it, aka a hashtag. If # were a hashtag, "#YOLO" would be a hashtagtag!
Unrelated
 
$\octothorpe$
 
'Cause it has eight, uh, thorpes
 
losted
 
In any case, there's a reason the other branches of math rarely run into this sort of problem
And as useless as branches of math can be, I think set theory might end up being the most useless
at least, I don't see it being directly useful
 
Oooh, @Alessandro will incinerate you.
 

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