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20:25
Guys, say we have $f\colon\mathbb C\to\mathbb C$. My book says we can write $f(z)=u(x,y)+iv(x,y)$. I can see why this could be true, but why aren't we worried that something goes wrong, because $\mathbb C\neq\mathbb R^2$? For instance, my book used the chain rule on such a function, without ever bothering if this is correct. But the multiplication is exactly what makes $\mathbb C$ different, so what guarantees that everything goes well?
Oh, @Sha's reappeared?
There's no issue in thinking of it as $\Bbb R^2$. There is more structure coming from multiplication of complex numbers, but that doesn't mean that forgetting about that makes it wrong!
If you have $f(z(t))$ for a curve $z(t)=x(t)+iy(t)$, then you can use your complex multiplication structure to write the chain rule as $$\dfrac d{dt} f(z(t)) = f'(z(t))z'(t)$$ when $f$ is analytic/holomorphic.
You can check that the "usual" chain rule gives that result.
Oh no. It's a Balarka!
@0celo7 This is not compact though
@Ted!!
@BalarkaSen A point is just about as compact as it gets
Er? Oh, you mean you're taking the point inside the double cone. But the double cone is not an open subset of R^3!!
The claim they actually make is not for open subsets
I figured the claim for open sets would be a good place to start.
I updated the question to include the more general case.
20:35
I see.
It's still a very interesting GMT question for subsets of the plane
Maybe one can compactify to $S^2$ and then apply that guy's method.
@BalarkaSen But the double cone gives an example of a stable minimal surface with disconnected regular set...not good.
Big if true
@BalarkaSen 200 page thesis if tru
I just started Chapter 5
How many chapters were there again
4 + 5 appendices
20:40
jfc
Final product will probably be 5 chapters + 4 appendices
jesus fried chicken
maybe 5 appendices
I'm going to absorb one into the main text
but might need a new one for some Cantor-Sobolev spaces or GMT, we'll see
@TedShifrin hi @Ted! haha yes I am back, but in all honestly, it is out of sheer necessity:p (I love it here tho)
let me read what you wrote (sorry for my delay)
Way to make us feel loved, @Sha!
20:42
haha:p<3
21:00
@Ted but my book hasn't even defined what $f'$ means yet?
so it's impossible for me to get the chain rule
bút
You haven't defined complex differentiability yet (or Cauchy-Riemann equations)?
complex differentiability
@Sha if you haven't defined f', how can you be using the chain rule?
just what it means for $f$ to be holomorphic
@DanielLittlewood that is my POINT:p
anyhow, what I was saying
Well, I thought you'd mentioned chain rule, so I added that remark. We can come back to it.
You have or have not done Cauchy-Riemann?
21:02
yes, I have Cauchy Riemann
that is what it means for $f$ to be holomorphic
Well, no, not quite, but it's an equivalent formulation for $C^1$.
that's how my book defines it
they do more stuff in a different way:p
like defining $e^{x+iy}=e^x(\cos(y)+i\sin(y))$
So you know $f'(z) = \frac{\partial u}{\partial x} + i\frac{\partial v}{\partial x}$ or ...
uhm... I don't think so
let me check real quick, what I know and what I don't
hm, the problem is, $f'$ was never mentioned before, in the case of C->R or R->C
I mean, I understand that $f\circ\gamma$ is R->R, so there should be no problem
No, this is explicitly for $f\colon\Bbb C\to\Bbb C$, although you know that it corresponds to $(u,v)\colon\Bbb R^2\to\Bbb R^2$ and we could do chain rule with that.
No, $\Bbb R\to\Bbb C$ !!
21:07
o oops, sorry
that is my mistake
So I'm saying to write out the chain rule for $(u(x(t),y(t)),v(x(t),y(t))$ and compare.
I should have written: f:C->R
No, no, not if we're talking holomorphic functions!
right, but this thm deals with f:C->R, but I can think about C->C too, sure
What example are you talking about?
21:08
the thing I mentioned
wait, let me share a screenshot
this is my context
Oh, OK, that's just regular chain rule. Nothing to do with complex differentiability, of course.
What I was saying should come a bit later.
but in the chain rule they use $f'$.. but $f'$ isn't defined yet?
I mean, $f'$ exists if we consider it as (as a complete equality) $f\colon\mathbb R^2\to\mathbb R$.. but, that's kind of my issue
They don't use $f'$. They're using partial derivatives, as is appropriate.
but the chain rule says: $(f\circ g)'(x)=f'(g(x))g'(x)$
They are talking about a $C^1$ real-valued function, so they write its partial derivatives.
No. You have to interpret that for multivariable functions using the derivative as a linear map (whose components are the partial derivatives).
21:13
Hello chat
yes, but the function $f$ has a complex input
I mean yea, it is real-valued
The complex input is a real vector input $(x(t),y(t))$. I write the multivariable chain rule with $D$ for the derivative, not prime.
that's my problem: how do we know for sure that $f(z)=f(x,y)$. Like, how do we know that it always goes well?
do we just define $f(z)$ like that?
Because $z=x+iy$, so an input of a $z$ inputs $x$ and $y$.
oh, so that's why it doesn't matter when the codomain is $\mathbb R$
21:17
It doesn't matter regardless of the codomain.
that's strange. How can two functions be equal, when they don't have the same domain?
If the codomain is $\Bbb C$, you can again take $f(z) = u(z)+iv(z)$, so you're getting $f(z)\leftrightarrow (u(x,y),v(x,y))$ and that's where Cauchy-Riemann comes from.
Get over your obsession. $\Bbb C = \Bbb R^2$.
They have the same domain.
@MatheinBoulomenos my thesis will contain a commutative diagram
the world is ending
the multiplication is different?
how is that not worrisome? I mean, sure I can stop nagging
You pay no attention to it, as I said already.
21:18
I'm getting repetitive
so we are lucky that we don't use it?
If you wish to pay attention to it, then my remark up above is meaningful ... once you sit down and write out the chain rule carefully.
We use it when we want to.
alright, I guess I will write it out then, maybe that helps
oh, well in this specific case, we don't multiply complex numbers with complex numbers anyways, so nothing goes wrong indeed
For an orthogonal $n \times n$ matrix $A$ with $\text{det}(A)=1$ for $1$ to be an eigenvalue we need $n$ odd, right?
all the fuss for nothing:p
21:22
Can you give me a counterexample with $n=2$ or $n=4$?
@Sha, right, and I'm saying in the case I said you do multiply complex numbers and because of C-R it all agrees.
oooh, okay
that sounds all good
I got over my panic:p
thx\o/
@TedShifrin Thx. I think $\begin{bmatrix} \cos(\theta)&-\sin(\theta)\\ \sin(\theta) & \cos(\theta) \end{bmatrix}$ would be one
@0celo7 I'm proud
@MatheinBoulomenos I will probably need tikz-cd help :P
Sure, @philmcole. An interesting thing to realize is that in even dimensions you can have rotations in orthogonal $2$-dimension planes and have no net rotation at all.
21:25
btw Ted, did I already tell you a friend of mine watched your lectures and recommended it to others, when we were struggling with Spivak's "Calculus on Manifolds"?
Yeah, @Sha, I think you told me. Glad I could help.
hi everyone
Howdy Karim.
haha:P I am still amused that he described you as "the guy with the neat handwriting":P
21:26
Hey @Adeek
@MatheinBoulomenos I am gonna switch to physics btw
As opposed to the "confusing lecture style"? @Sha
@MatheinBoulomenos That's awesome
that's too generic:P
Ted's handwriting is great tho
21:28
it's the best
inspired me to improve mine
it's like
mathscr
but readable
but written in blackboard!!!!
also true
which is like a hell of an accomplishment
blackboard fucks me up
21:29
whiteboard is better?
@ShaVuklia people sometimes describe me as the guy who writes indecipherable hieroglyphs
@MatheinBoulomenos lolll, we had a guy like that in high school:p not sure about the decipherability tho
@MatheinBoulomenos That's because you write algebra
algebraists cannot be deciphered
21:30
@AlessandroCodenotti fancy people like fancy
@Balarka: You should see me trying to write on a computer monitor (as I have to for my AoPS classes). Handwriting is absolutely horrendous. And I hate whiteboards ... the pens are always dry.
Oh yeah that is a phenomenon
At least with a smart board you're writing at the board. But on computer monitors? Ugh.
"Every pen you've chosen, has dried up??? I'm shocked!!"
Good thing Hippa isn't here.
21:32
@TedShifrin I use a Wacom tablet for online office hours.
It works pretty well
Well, if I write on a tablet at my desk, sure, Xander. But with the computer monitor I'm standing and leaning over to write on it. It sucks.
omg, @Balarka mathsf is the most beautiful thing I've ever seen (I just read the chat transcript Alessandro sent)
it's literally the font I have been looking for my entire life
I used to like it a lot but then abandoned it for some reason
Sans serif is too sterile. But I like to use it when i put Hint on homework.
yea I feel like abandoning it too
21:34
You've been looking your entire life and you're already abandoning?
I'm shocked!!!
life's short:p gotta keep on moving
Back to your chain rule. No rest until you get it
you're right:p let me be prOduCtiivE
I try to make up for what I lack in calligraphy by structuring my proofs very clearly
21:36
\mathsf is used for stuff like $\mathsf{ZFC}$ or $\mathsf{AC}$ in set theory
SANS SERIF FONTS ARE THE DEBIL!
I actually think that clear boardwork (and intelligent use of colors) does help with understanding of things.
3
Good boardwork is super important
@MatheinBoulomenos mathein :D
boardwork is hard
21:37
and so much easier to produce with chalk
whiteboards suck >:(
I made a colleague at UGA very angry when I first arrived and made that claim. (His handwriting and boardwork were execrable. His teaching wasn't much better.)
@TedShifrin Ted :D
Hi @Kasmir
H @Kasmir
I'm working on it, don't worry
I had a lecturer who was amazing but his handwriting was horrible
I've been working on my handwriting
it is almost to the point of being legible
21:38
I just write really large
I'll be the judge of that.
I do much better on the tablet than on a board
wastes a lot of paper, but it makes it more readable
it is much easier for me to write legibly when I write small
haha was not going to ask about that >< just came to say hi to all :D
21:39
big is hard
@Adeek what made you do the switch?
It was worse in topology where we were supposed to draw pictures but I just couldn't do it
One bit of my handwriting that I managed to change was how I write my twos
Balarka can give pictures lessons. That's all he does.
@MatheinBoulomenos I had a very bad ex super visor who is making my life miserable. Although, I am doing pretty good now in graduate school, but I am want to do something that has application in real world.
21:41
I used to write them in the way that makes it them hard to distinguish from $\partial$
"topology = homological algebra + pictures" - Serre, who got a fields medal for his work in topology
studying algebraic geometry is nice, but it feels that all we do is bunch of abstractions layered over abstractions.
true in practice but quite unfortunate @Mathei
@MatheinBoulomenos Well you can deal with the algebra part so you better apply to art school now
So I decided that I will probably do experimental physics in quantum optics @MatheinBoulomenos
21:43
this is why we must all spend a few hours per day meditating on the concreteness of the Poincare homology sphere
Can you draw it for me, Mike?
almost legible :\
@AlessandroCodenotti lmao
21:43
Too small and compressed, Xander.
@Ted: I can’t, but Poincare’s representation was a solid dodecahedron with side identifications.
I brb
Right, Mike. I knew that once.
There is something quite mysterious here. Drawings are inherently 2-dimensional but the pictures we create in our mind’s eye are indeed inherently 3-dimensional.
I couldn't even copy the pictures of lens spaces from my topology lecturer
21:44
So I can see the homology sphere, but I cannot draw it.
@TedShifrin it actually looks pretty good on the screen; one is only meant to see half of the page (horizontally) at any one time
If $\{f_n\}$ is a sequence of nonnegative measurable functions converging pointwise to $0$ a.e. on $E$, does this imply $\lim_{n \to \infty} \int_E f_n = 0$?
I complained to my students that my 4D blackboard was on back order.
when one can zoom, "small" is relative
NOOO @user193319.
If you use a thicker pen point, it'll force you to write larger and more neatly, Xander. That's way too fine a point.
21:45
@user193319 $\frac{1}{n} \chi_{[0,n]}$
@TedShifrin my handwriting looks worse if I try to write bigger
Maybe print? One of my colleagues did that because his handwriting was horrid. His printing was elegant.
I think this point is especially clear with RP2. I have a rich visual understanding of him, but I cannot produce a good picture on a board.
This sounds like the handwriting equivalent of git gud
No, I cannot either, Mike.
But I'm not sure how good my visual understanding is. I can sew a disk onto the boundary of a Möbius strip, but ...
also, again, the zoom is such that when I am writing, the page is about 3 feet across (about 20 inches from the left margin to the red line)
21:47
My favorite is to cup my hands together and draw a disc, so that my fingers form the boundary circle. I then pinch together my fingerpoints, which gives a figure 8. Now forget the disc, and do a twist to move one circle to the other.
@user193319 in general no, but if you add more conditions, it works, see e.g. mathoverflow.net/a/296540/117693
We have essentially just drawn Boy’s surface in 3-space.
and, as I said, I've been working on it---that looks much better than it did 10 years ago
mostly, I just need to write s l o w e r
(or moar slowly...)
It's clear that I've never been a topologist ... although when I applied for jobs UWisconsin made me check one from a list of fields, and topology was the closest they had for me.
ugh... grammarz
21:48
Logic, analysis, algebra ... no. No geometry of any sort. No complex geometry of any sort.
@MikeMiller I just can't imagine that stuff. That's more difficult than any homological algebra to me
@Mathei Well do you want to do my homological algebra for me then
not sure if I can
Heh, that’s a compliment. But I suspect you have too much work yourself to do mine too ;)
yeah, I'm a bit busy
the craziest homological algebra lesson was in the TA session for étale cohomology. The prof just assumed that spectral sequences are common knowledge, but it was pointed out to him that they weren't covered in any of the prerequisited courses.
21:55
Sort of like I assume the chain rule is common knowledge.
But it isn't, even for senior math majors taking differential geometry :(
So the TA defined spectral sequences, derived elementary properties like 5-term exact sequences and then went one to construct 4 "examples" of spectral sequences which were still really general, like the one we ended up in the end was the Grothendieck spectral sequence which has basically every spectral sequence in algebra or algebraic geometry as special cases
and he did all that in one hour
He didn't do the Fröhlicher spectral sequence that degenerates at the $E_2$ page for Kähler manifolds? Tut.
I like spectral sequences because I understand them ok
pretty sure that's a special case of the spectral sequences associated to a double complex, which we did
I used one in my thesis :)
Yeah, Mathein, the Dolbeault cohomology is a double complex.
21:58
I like double complexes, and I like multicomplexes even more
Computing zigzags is too hard for me tho
spectral sequences are alright, but that was really overwhelming if you've never seen them before
Have fun LaTeXing those.
Zee
Zee
I always found it funny spectral sequences were invented by a partial differential equater
It's just diagram chasing, Mathein. You love that.
I agree @Mathei
21:59
diagram chasing is easy if you come up with the right diagrams
If you ever have to use them you will learn and understand them. Not before you really get your teeth in though

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