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9:02 PM
Ohh ok ok
 
So now we need to prove that L(f) <=L*(f) and we're done right ?
 
@Astyx hi!
 
Hi Liad ! Long time no see
 
yea , really long
how are you?
 
yea but how to do it?
and we need to do something with theconditions of simetry?
i write something ammm idk if im right
i just got home
 
9:21 PM
How did you do it for the case of P_c ?
@Liad I'm good and you ?
What are you doing this year ?
 
im fine :)
i just started M.A. and you?
 
MA ?
 
masters
 
i want to write ir properly or more fast lol can i give u the pictures from telegram or something like that ?
 
Already ? Wow
How old are you again ?
@DanielML Well if you knew latex it would greatly help
 
9:23 PM
22, not very young ^^
 
But just give me the big lines of the demonstration
I know how to do it, I just want to hear it from you
 
what about you? i remember you wanted to study somewhere in France.
 
i dont know latex :( i can write it preperly opening a question in the forum
 
@DanielML You don't have to write any equations, just tell me what you do with words
Oh yeah I guess I could be in masters next year too
I hadn't realised that
Yeah I'm in an engineering school
Finishing the first period of my second year
 
ok for the case P_c
L(f)=sup{L(P;f): P $in$ P(I) (this is the definition)
And we want
L(f)=sup{L(P,f) : P $in$ P_c}
So
P_c subset of P(I)
 
9:29 PM
@Astyx and you are 21?
 
@Liad I am indeed
 
cool.
 
Actually I could be starting it this year now that I come to think of it
 
you finish this semester?
 
hence
{L(P,f) : P $in$ P_c} subset of {L(P;f) : P $in$ P(I)}
 
9:31 PM
@Liad what do you mean ?
 
i mean, you finish the B.sc. (first degree) this semester?
 
School years here begin in september and end in may (but I have an internship from may to september)
Well it's not like that
 
ahh. right. in France its different
 
More like my school is different
If I had gone to university I would be in M1 (does that make sense to you ?)
 
i heard its like very competitive and you must get an internship after studying and staff like that
M1? no idea what that is.
 
9:34 PM
Since A $subset$ B, then
SupA $less or equal$ SupB and hence
sup{L(P,f) : P $in$ P_c} $less or equal$ sup{L(P,f) : P $in$ P(I)}
 
First year of masters
Like we have Licence that is L1, L2 then L3
Then after that you can get a master M1 then M2
The digit being the year it corresponds to
 
just number the years? ^^
 
Pretty much
 
and im done here the case that interest is
when
 
Hi @Mathei
 
9:35 PM
Hi @Alessandro
 
@DanielML Ok so that's the exact analogue to what we did with P*
 
sup{L(P,f) : P $in$ P_c} $greater or equal$ sup{L(P,f) : P $in$ P(I)}
 
How is it going?
 
hi
 
Hi @LeakyNun
 
9:36 PM
how to do the other inequality
 
Hi @AlessandroCodenotti
 
@MatheinBoulomenos Uhhh the AG midterm was kinda a disaster. Also I discovered I don't understand localizations today
hi @Astyx!
 
@AlessandroCodenotti oh man
localization is focusing on an open subset
 
@Alessandro oh damn
 
@Liad But in my case it's different since I'm doing a Grande École. I had to go through two years of CPGE (Classes Préparatoires aux Grandes Écoles) or prepa, then take a competitive exam, and get in a school
 
9:37 PM
Nah I know how they work. I just had a huge brainfart when I had to compute $k[t^2,t^3]_{(t^2,t^3)}$ earlier
 
I'm now in the second year of my school
Which puts me at an L3 level because first year wasn't academic
 
@MatheinBoulomenos It doesn't really matter as far as grades are concerned, but I'm annoyed I didn't solve some stuff I should have known how to do
 
And at the end of the school I will have a masters degree, I think
At least I'll be able to do a thesis if I want to
 
@AlessandroCodenotti interesting
 
@DanielML That's what we're interrested in, right
 
9:39 PM
yeaaa right but im stuck in there lol
 
@Alessandro okay I see
 
@LeakyNun I was checking that the cuspidal cubic is not a normal curve, that's how it came up
We started dealing with schemes now, I'm optimistic they'll be better than sheaves :P
 
@DanielML Wait didn't you already do this with P_c ?
It might be easier to go from there
 
@AlessandroCodenotti Well, they are sheaves
 
i didnt i need to show the other inequality
 
9:41 PM
@Alessandro I can relate, I've had my fair share of brainfarts
 
Ah fair
There is also equality
 
@TobiasKildetoft My optimism is untouched by your slander
 
though mostly on exercise sheets with elementary stuff
 
I'm going to tell you how you prove the other equality for Pc and you'll do it by yourself for P*
 
@AlessandroCodenotti Well, I suppose they need not be. They can be functors too
 
9:42 PM
(I was joking, I know you're right)
@TobiasKildetoft Aren't sheaves functors as well?
 
@AlessandroCodenotti Sure, but not the same kind
 
Ill be grateful
 
Yeah I kinda forgot I'm adding inverses for the stuff outside $\mathfrak p$ because the multiplicative set isn't $\mathfrak p$ but its complement @Mathei :P
 
So for all p in P(I), you can add c to p and get p' in Pc such that p' is a refinament of p, agreed ?
 
@TobiasKildetoft Hmmm I might ask you more about that in a couple of weeks
We haven't really defined schemes right now, we just saw the Zariski topology on $\operatorname{Spec}(R)$ and some examples in the last lecture
 
9:45 PM
agreed
 
So you have L(p,f) <= L(p', f), and by definition L(p', f) <= sup {L(pc, f) : pc in Pc} := Lc(f)
 
@AlessandroCodenotti now $D_f$ is a basis for Spec(R)
 
Meaning L(p,f)<= Lc(f)
 
where $D_f = \{ \mathfrak p \mid f \notin \mathfrak p\}$
 
Right ?
 
9:46 PM
and then you define a sheaf on Spec(R) called the structure sheaf
 
ohhhh correct
 
Meaning L(f) <= Lc(f)
 
by stipulating that $\mathcal O_{\operatorname{Spec}(R)}(D_f) = R_f = R[1/f]$
 
And we're done
 
(because on $D_f$, $f$ is invertible, so you have new functions by inverting $f$)
 
9:47 PM
Yeah I was guessing so since $D_f=\{f\neq 0\}$ is a basis of the Zariski topology on an affine variety
 
and then a sheaf on a space that is isomorphic to Spec(R) for some R is called an affine scheme
 
@AlessandroCodenotti notation for localizations is far from optimal
 
a scheme is then a sheaf that is locally affine
 
@MatheinBoulomenos Yeah, $R_f$ inverts $f$, $R_\mathfrak p$ inverts everything but $\mathfrak p$
 
$\Bbb{Z}_p$ inverts $p$ in $\Bbb Z$, no wait
 
9:48 PM
lol
 
@AlessandroCodenotti and we call $R_f$ "localize $R$ away from $f$" precisely because when you are away from $f$, $f$ becomes invertible
 
@LeakyNun Long distance relationships ...
 
lol
 
@Astyx i confused sorry how it is that pc in Pc i didnt understand that
 
Because p' is in Pc
 
9:51 PM
who is pc?
oh pc is part of p'
 
No
pc is an element of Pc
I used this notation just for the set
I could write it {L(a, f) : a in Pc} it would be the same
 
oh ok np got it
 
So now tell me how you do it for L*(f)
 
ok let me write first in my notebook
i just got a question the part of that partitions are simetric doesnt tell me anything to write it?
 
I don't get your question
 
10:01 PM
Sanity check: since stalks are local if $U\subseteq X$ is open then $\mathcal O_{X,x}=\mathcal O_{U,x}$ ($\mathcal O_U$ is just the restriction of the structure sheaf $\mathcal O_X$ to $U$)
 
yea it says that
Let P* be the set of all partitions P of J that contain 0 and are symetric (that is, x in P iff -x in P)
 
@AlessandroCodenotti Why is "local" relevant there?
 
Because the stalk at $x$ is made of equivalence classes of functions agreeing in a nbhd of $x$ so restrincting to an open set (containing $x$ of course) makes no difference
 
@DanielML Yeah you can work with that
 
@AlessandroCodenotti Right, and that does not use that the stalk is local
(directed limits only care about the tail of the directed set)
 
10:06 PM
Am I not losing the very end of the tail though? $X$ is an open set in $X$ after all
 
@AlessandroCodenotti No, because the "end" consists of the smallest subsets
 
Oh of course
The order is reverse inclusion
I should go to sleep and stop saying wrong things :P So in general if I have a directed limit of $A_i$ where $i$ ranges over some direct set $I$ and I take the direct limit of $A_j$ where $j$ ranges over some cofinal subset of $I$ I should get the same thing
 
@AlessandroCodenotti $\mathcal O_U$ is the sheaf $\mathcal O_X$ pullback along the inclusion $U \to X$ :P
(or is it pushforward)
 
Let's say that $I$ is a poset since I'm not sure cofinal works for a preorder
 
I think we want posets for direct limits
 
10:11 PM
I think a directed set is enough, but you always have a poset in practice
 
@AlessandroCodenotti I thought directed was stronger than poset
 
same
 
There are two inequivalent definitions around: a directed set is a preorder in which every two elements have an upper bound or a directed set is a poset in which every two elements have an upper bound
According to wikipedia the former is enough to do direct limits
Hmm actually it's not really clear which definition of directed set are they using on the wiki page for direct limit. I totally support defining a directed set as a poset with extra structure though
 
@AlessandroCodenotti not structure, property
anyway, I need to go to bed.
 
even with the first definition, it's basically equivalent to the other one for the purpose of limits: let $(X,\leq)$ be a preordered set, then choose a system of representatives for the equivalence relation $a \sim b :\Leftrightarrow a \leq b \land b \leq a$, then that subset with the restricted preorder is a partial order and is cofinal, so the limits are isomorphic
 
10:17 PM
Me too
Anyway assuming it's a poset the cofinal question above makes sense and the answer is that the limits are the same
Bye @Tobias and thanks for your help
@MatheinBoulomenos Good point. Actually I don't know why I wanted a poset, there should be no issue in defining cofinal subsets of a preorder
 
@MatheinBoulomenos choose
 
@LeakyNun How do you like the proof for the claim "if $A \neq \varnothing$, then $\exists a \in A$", that goes like this? consider $A$ as a family indexed over one element, then there exists an element in $A$ by the axiom of choice
 
@MatheinBoulomenos faints
 
I'm too tired to come up with a proof assuming a measurable cardinal or something, but I tried
 
10:37 PM
where can i read about Siegel's result or more generally about algebraic dimension of compact complex manifold
 
@Astyx
this is my attempt
1) L(f)=Sup{L(P;f) : P in P(I)} this is definition
We want
L(f) = Sup{L(P,f) : P in P*}
P* is subset of P(I)
Hence
{L(P;f) : P in P*} is subset of {L(P;f) : P in P(I)}
hence
Sup{L(P;f) : P in P*} <= Sup{L(P,f) : P in P(I)}

Now for all P in P(I) we can add 0 to P and obtain P' in P* such that P' is a refinament of P, hence
L(P;f) <= L(P',f) and by definition
L(P',f) <=Sup {L(P*,f) : 0 in P*}:=L*(f)
 
How to you know these are symmetric ?
 
Is function f(x)= sqrt ( x^2 ) homogeneous ?
 
yea i think im wrong because i dont use the part of symmetric and i dont know if i need to do something to the interval J:=[-a,a]
 
Hi, @Astyx, demonic @Alessandro, @Leaky
 
10:45 PM
hi @Ted
 
because the problem starts with
Let a>0 and let J:=[-a,a]
certainly J are simetric
i think lol
 
J is symmetric
Your partition (or rather subdivision) is not necessarilly
Hi Ted
@Elsa Well what's f(ax) ?
 
|a|sqrt(x^2) ? This is why I'm struggling with this.
What if a is negative ?
 
You've answered your own question :)
 
Hah i see
 
10:49 PM
So im right?
 
No
You're saying that P* = P0 (where P0 is Pc when c=0)
That's not true
 
So f(x,y)= ( sqrt ( x^2+y^2 ) - x ) / (y) is homogeneous not either ?
That's why I'm asking all of these cuz I've been told that the function above is in fact homogeneous.
not homogeneous either*
 
What's the domain of that one supposed to be?
 
so the part that im wrong, i think is the part that i say we can add 0 to P
 
R^2
 
10:53 PM
Well, that's certainly impossible. You can't have $y=0$.
 
if R^2\ {0} ? Does it crack on the negative values ?
 
You mean remove $y=0$? You have the same problem with negative scalars.
Square roots always mess that up.
 
Ok great , thanks. I always think high of my assistants so I trust them more than I trust myself :c
 
Even professors mess up from time to time!
 
indeed
 
10:56 PM
I speak as one of those :P
 
ahahah
 
But I don't mess up as often as some would think :P
 
Too experienced ?
 
LOL ... I was usually pretty careful in classes. Not so careful in here. :)
 
hi @loch
I asked my professor what are the ideals in the localization
 
11:00 PM
Heya @Ted.
 
and then he said it doesn't make sense because in general closed subsets of an open subset isn't anything
but points in an open subset are still points
 
@DanielML yes we can add 0 to P but we don't get an element of P*
 
@Ted would be irritated :P
 
Hi @LeakyNun
 
heya @Fargle
Leaky, you irritating me from the first word?
Wait, why am I supposed to be irritated?
 
11:03 PM
I think I'm finally ready to present tomorrow. (Also I just used Beamer for the first time. Woohoo.)
 
What are you presenting, @Fargle?
 
Applying a particular numerical DE method to Black-Scholes.
 
Oh. Isn't Black-Scholes a PDE? I've forgotten.
Oh, you just said DE, not ODE.
 
It is indeed. Method of lines plus a big old system of equations = getting the answer.
 
I've not used Beamer, but I did use LaTeX's slides documentclass years ago for an MAA lecture.
 
11:07 PM
If you want, I can send you what I plan to present. I don't go too deep into it because it's a sciences talk, and I don't go too fine with the method (I think I discretized to something like 12 x 20?), but the essence of it is there.
Once I put finishing touches on, of course.
 
Sure thing.
Not that I know anything about the subject.
 
You and me both, partner.
 
LOL, yeah, but I don't need to pretend :D
 
I really do just feel like one of infinitely many monkeys with it. But it turned out.
 
@Astyx so how can i put the statement of simmetry x.x
 
11:17 PM
@Daniel: Are you still working on upper/lower sums if you refine the partition, or on something else? I can't figure out what you're talking about by scrolling back.
 
Well you need an element of P* that is a refinement of p
Can you come up with one @DanielML ?
 
Oh, Astyx is still here. I don't need to think.
 
I'll be leaving soon
It's past my bedtime
 
Well, if you expect me to take over for you, you'll have to tell why there's any discussion about symmetry at all.
 
I expect this problem to be over soon :p
 
11:22 PM
Grâce à Dieu :P
 
But if you want to know, He's trying to prove that the lower sum can be equivalently defined as the sup of $\left\{L(p,f) : p \text{ is symmetric}\right\}$
 
Oh, in the special case that the interval is symmetric?
 
No, that the subdivisions considered are symmetric
(and the interval as well)
 
What does that mean?
But I don't get your statement. Equivalently? I.e., to say that the sup of the lower sums will equal the sup of the symmetric lower sums?
 
Yes
 
11:26 PM
OK.
In all my years of teaching this stuff, I've never imagined making up such a question.
 
If I understand correctly what you mean by symmetric lower sum that is
 
They're not remotely equivalent in any sense I can think of.
 
You get the same result in the end
That's what I mean by equivalent
You could define the integral as such and it wouldn't change a thing
 
Right. Because you can always refine to make any partition symmetric.
 
Yup
 
11:30 PM
Again, I don't know why I should care if I'm not integrating an odd or even function.
 
Neither do I
It's just about manipulating those things I guess
 
OK, thanks for 'xplaining!
 
Haha no problem
 
@TedShifrin because i'm treating rings as spaces :P
 
shrug
 
11:35 PM
sorry i was away just now

im not sure what your question is (if there is one?)
 
@loch no, there isn't one
 
oh
 
Would it be any element of P* but specifically an element that makes it smaller right
wouldnt be 0?
 
Let's work on an example
If J = [-5;5]
And p = (-4, -2, 0, 3, 4)
imma fall asleep soon so please hurry
 
LOL
This is far from a fluid conversation.
 
11:48 PM
Probably best to sleep and come back tomorrow. People with input will probably ping you, and you should be able to find those pings.
 
@Rithaniel: Astyx is the one helping, not the one being helped.
 
Ah, sorry, I'm all over the place today.
 
You're right though
I'll go to bed now
Bye everyone
 
Bonne nuit, @Astyx.
 
Bonne journée à toi
 
11:52 PM
Merci bien :)
 
I was trying to repeat Klein's notion of a geometry from memory at one point, earlier, and was just stumbling over my words. It was terrible.
 
I have referred to it numerous times in my life, but I can't quote anything coherently.
 
Also, chat isn't scrolling for me. That's odd.
G'night Astyx
 
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