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00:00
@TedShifrin We go through about a chapter each week.
6 chapters so far.
I mean, we started chapter 6 recently.
I wish I was a good student like you and had prepared in advanced :/
I think my life would had been easier.
Had you all ever forced yourself to read a book that you find boring for class?
As I said, different people have different styles. When I was an undergraduate, I mostly learned from lectures and my lecture notes, although I occasionally referred to the textbook. But I rarely sat down and read the textbook. Grad school (and research) was somewhat different.
But if your instructor is following the book reasonably closely, by all means, read ahead and you'll get more out of the lectures.
00:18
Thanks for the advice.
Good luck :)
Ted
You are a professor?
I see your lecture videos online, and they look excellent.
I was for many years.
Ah, thanks. Many people have found them helpful.
Compared to my professor burning through power point slides :/
for my algs.
I hate power point.
00:23
Ted Shifrin I think it depends though. I have a math professor who bounce bounce back and forth between power point and a projector to write down notes; he is an excellent professor.
I think it saves time because definitions are already written on the power point.
In many lectures I wanted to have the students involved and suggesting what to do next, etc., and having pre-printed slides of any sort destroys that.
I lectured fast enough for the students. Speeding up any more would have destroyed most of them.
Ahh I see. My math professor also writes very clever problems as well.
I think well thought out problem sets.
I think problem sets are the most important part of any undergraduate math class.
The exercises are what I'm most proud of in my books.
It helps to write clearly and help people understand ideas, of course, too.
Ah, Spivak has a problem on that kind of thing in his Calculus. He is after what's called the Rising Sun Lemma.
Glad you're enjoying that professor, at least :)
00:30
He's an excellent professor; one of the best professor I ever had. We have homework due everyclass, but their short and relevant to the lectures.
Well, enjoy learning from him :)
Thanks :)
00:47
Hi
What is special with no. 42?
01:04
@JingWeng ^^?
01:16
Hi @TedShifrin
@Danu hi
@Danu Is there any 3-manifold that I (the layman) am familiar with?
The 3-dimensional ball.
@MikeMiller Yes you should explain stuff to me
Not now though---I'm super tired.
In a week or so maybe
@Danu ??
@DHMO $\{x\in\Bbb R^3\mid |x|<1\}$.
01:32
@DHMO
Why we are taking equation as sum of 2 angular bisector?
@DHMO are you there!??please help
Any one can help me out?
01:48
@Ramanujan As proved above, $x \sin \theta - y \cos \theta$ (marked by $c$) is the perpendicular distance from $(x,y)$ to the line.
@Danu Oh, I thought a 3-manifold would have to be infinite in the 3-dimension, just like how the surface of a sphere is infinite in the 2-dimension
("infinite" meaning "without boundary")
@DHMO it is for pair of straight lines
2 lines angular bisector
@Ramanujan yes, so the equation given means "the perpendicular distance from (x,y) to the first line is equal or opposite to the perpendicular distance from (x,y) to the second line"
@Danu I'll tell you a bedtime story at some point
02:35
Hello
03:12
hi @0celo7 here?
@Raekye @Adeek greetings
hi @DHMO
@PVAL I don't really understand all the HF in the Levine-Ruberman paper but the topological applications are really interesting. I suggest reading the main theorems and then skipping to section 4.
 
2 hours later…
05:21
@Kaumudi my family has such expectation and which is why i would like to prepare myself from the very beginning ...... don't know would i be ever given such an opportunity ... thanks :-)
 
1 hour later…
06:22
if f(x) = y =a^x..... then is it true that f^-1(y) = x = a^y? ?
@ffahim $f^{-1}(y)=x$, but not $a^y$.
In fact, $f^{-1}(y) = x = \log_a(y)$
@DHMO its all about my text book .... i felt doubt....
@ffahim what did your textbook say?
@DHMO how to derive inverse of y=a^x function .... they said what was my question was true
@ffahim well, you apply $\log_a()$ to both sides
06:29
not been able .... @DHMO pls write the full derivation
$y=a^x$
$\log_a(y)=\log_a(a^x)=x$
okay is that f^-1(x) = log a (x) ? @DHMO
@ffahim yes
can i say f^-1(x) =y?
@ffahim no
06:32
pls explain me .. pls@DHMO
@ffahim well, since f(x) = y, then x = f^-1(y)
our textbook also says that inverse of y=a^x function is x=a^y..... now if f^-1(x) not equal to y then how that inverse be possible @DHMO
@ffahim in that case then f^-1(x) = y
the x and y in y=a^x is not the x and y in x=a^y
as u derived f^-1(X)= log a(x) ..... isn't that the inverse @DHMO ? then why do we need to say inverse in exponential form which is a^y=x?
@ffahim because if f^-1(x) = y = log_a(x), then indeed a^y = x
06:40
i get it now have a look the interchange observed here y = log a(x)... okay then as usual a^y=x .. no prob but this change of form doesn't cause any change to the inverse function ? @DHMO
as we know inverse of an exponential function is algorithmic function
@ffahim the inverse function is still the logarithmic function.
i see ! thanks @DHMO :-) .....
@ffahim welcome
07:04
$\zeta(3)=\frac{5}{2}\sum_{n=1}^\infty\frac{(-1)^{n+1}} {{2n \choose n} n^3}$
anyone have a proof?
I tried looking at the partial sums, summing the 2n and the 2n+1 terms, etcetera
$\zeta(3)=\displaystyle\sum_{n=1}^\infty\frac1{n^3}$ right
$\displaystyle \sum_{n=1}^\infty\frac{(-1)^{n+1}} {\binom{2n}{n} n^3} = \sum_{n=1}^\infty\frac{(-1)^{n+1}(n!)^2} {(2n)! n^3}$ right
$\displaystyle = \sum_{n=1}^\infty\frac{(-1)^{n+1}((n-1)!)^2} {(2n)! n}$ right
I got that far. I also found that $\sum_n=1}^\infty\frac{(-1)^{n+1}}{n^3{2n \choose n}}=\frac{3}{4}\sum_{n=1}^\infty\frac{5n+4}{{4n+2 \choose 2n+1}(2n+1)^3(4n+3)}$
$\sum_{n=1}^\infty\frac{(-1)^{n+1}}{n^3{2n \choose n}}=\frac{3}{4}\sum_{n=1}^\infty\frac{5n+4}{{4n+2 \choose 2n+1}(2n+1)^3(4n+3)}$
$\displaystyle = \sum_{n=1}^\infty \left( \frac{((2n-2)!)^2} {(4n-2)! (2n-1)} - \frac{((2n-2)!)^2(2n-1)^2}{(4n-2)!(4n-1)(4n)(2n)} \right)$
I have no idea lol
07:21
hah I'm reading an article that literally left it as an exercise for the reader
@Mussulini what was the article about?
irrationality of $\zeta(3)$
:o
Do you have a link/anything?
the first "amazing claim" was indeed amazing. I spent the best part of an hour proving it. Worth it
@Mussulini wow, maybe i should try
07:39
huh Ted Shifrin was just in this room
@DHMO it probably isn't that hard, it took me a while because I spent a lot of time trying to prove something false by induction
08:19
@Mussulini i think i have figured it out, but i dont want to write the proof lol
what's the TL;DR then?
08:40
@DHMO But the thing I told you about has no boundary.
@MikeMiller So cute :P
@MikeMiller Ah, I saw a talk on this! It was very understandable!!
08:58
@Danu isnt the boundary x2+y2+z2=1?
09:29
@DHMO Just reread what I told ya
Note $<$, not $\leq$
what is your arrow pointing to?
@Danu
@MikeMiller Oh, sorry---I'm referring to a message I sent DHMO earlier about the open ball being a 3-manifold, without boundary.
Also hi Mike!
no, "Oh, I saw a talk on this"
Oh!
Your topic!
The 4-color from Floer homology thing
it was a video on the internet
ah, presumably peter and tom talking about it
09:39
It was Kronheimer's talk
now it is my bedtime again and I disappear forever
<3
Bye!
What is it about solvable ideals in Lie algebras that make you want to quotient out the maximal solvable ideal (the radical)? Seems analogous to finding the maximal non-commutative subgroup of a group (the commutant) and quotienting out to find an Abelian group.
10:30
@Danu I thought you need to be able to travel in one direction indefinitely
user228700
Hey @DHMO: U there?
10:51
@Kaumudi yes, sorry
user228700
11:04
No pralem. Can u help me with a math problem?
user228700
..?
11:23
@DHMO It's a noncompact 3-manifold. Not the best example of one, but easy to visualize!
Once again, compact without boundary 3-manifolds don't embed in R^3, so you're going to have a hard time seeing one.
There are many tools to visualize 3-manifolds, one of them is called Heegaard decomposition - you piece-up your 3-manifolds into 3-manifolds w/ boundary (most which can be seen!), with a gluing information (how are they pieced, etc)
11:54
@Kaumudi Next time just say it, and if I am not here, others would help you
@BalarkaSen fundamental... polyhedron!
@BalarkaSen what is "compact" in English?
Well, sort of. But Heegaard decomposition is easier to visualize than identifying faces of a polyhedron to obtain a manifold (also, Heegaard decomposition exists for all compact orientable 3-manifolds without boundary, and not all 3-manifolds are obtained from identifying faces of polyhedra)
@BalarkaSen What do you get if you identify every pair of opposite points on a sphere?
The real projective plane.
wait, plane?
@DHMO It means exactly what it should mean. Easier to give some examples: an open disc, R^2, sphere minus a point, open annulus etc are all noncompact. Whereas a sphere, torus, 2-torus etc are compact.
@DHMO You're identifying opposite points on the 2-sphere, S^2, yes? Then it's a plane, yes.
Denoted as RP^2.
12:07
The 3-sphere is one of my favourite
12:23
@BalarkaSen what is a 2-sphere? circle?
I'm talking about $\{x,y,z|x^2+y^2+z^2=1\}$
Circle is 1-sphere. The usual sphere is 2-sphere.
but it is 3-dimensional
@DHMO That's the 2-sphere, yes.
user228700
Hi everyone :-)
It's a 2-manifold.
12:24
@Kaumudi next time just say your question
@BalarkaSen what?
You can always google these things you know.
The surface of the sphere is locally like R^2
no, i'm not talking about the surface
oops
I'm talking about $\{x,y,z|x^2+y^2+z^2\le1\}$
That's not a sphere
It's a 3-ball.
I see
what happens if I identify every opposite point?
@Secret have you seen the hopf fibration, where you have a $S^1$ bundle over $S^2$ so that the total space is $S^3$? There are some really funny animations on the internet about it.
12:26
You get the real projective space. RP^3.
@BalarkaSen I see, thanks
@BalarkaSen No, only if you identify opposite points on the boundary!
@Danu Obviously that's what he means
right, I meant on the boundary
Not obvious to me! Opposite points in a disk also makes sense
Hey @Mike still not asleep? ;)
12:28
Earlier you said I can get the real projective plane by identify every pair of oppsoite points on the surface of a sphere (2-manifold, genus 0)? @BalarkaSen
@Danu Only on the complement of the origin.
@DHMO I did.
@BalarkaSen Still makes perfect sense on the whole disk---you just don't do anything with the origin, as it's its own opposite point
@s.harp Yeah, some 4D enthusiasic forum users then taught me how that give you an idea on how one can partition the 3-sphere into torii
Here's a good animation:
Then it shouldn't even be a manifold.
12:30
Sure
Still a perfectly sensible topological space :P
thats the main animation i was thinking of
Boring
It's topologically the cone on RP^n, I believe.
One key thing for someone new to that animation is that the straight line is a circle bent into 4D
@Secret what?
Otherwise, I haev not learn hopf fibration proper, thus I am not supposed to commment further on it
@DHMO talking to s.harp
12:33
ok
@Danu Depends on the minute.
What on earth happens on that point in the middle?
@MikeMiller GO SLEEP :P
That's not how insomnia works.
I've never had that
12:35
Another cool thing about the hopf fibration is that all of those circles are, in a sense "parallel" to each other
What I usually do is put on some background noise
I'll sleep better when I'm back in my own bed.
@Danu That never worked for me.
@Kaumudi What is your question anyway?
I feel like videos are much better than textbooks/online sources regarding topology
at least for a layman like me
@MikeMiller You over at someone else's?
12:39
Good work on the lecture notes, by the way, Danu. I had a look at them.
@DHMO That's how most people get to taste topology. But to learn topology proper, you need a textbook (or at least a good class)
@Secret you're correct
@BalarkaSen For my talk?
Whaddaya think about the homology recap shit
Is it brief enough?
12:40
Sure, sounds good.
You will realise throughout the learnign how unreliable your intuition gain from the videos are in generalising things
You wanna look at it at some point too, @Mike? :D
@Secret for example?
@Danu Family's.
12:41
Maybe I just need you to tell me a bedtime story.
Line of two origins, which in drawings, always look like a line with two dots hovering above and below it
what?
i'm going to go try for another hour.
@Danu: In principle, I shouldn't have time. But we'll see.
@MikeMiller Heh.
@MikeMiller Not about math :)
I do recommend House of Asterion for a nonmathematical bedtime story.
12:54
@Kaumudi
user228700
Yes, here:
Hey guys, I have a vector calculus question, which require the rigor of the maths chat:
user228700
We knew that the divergence of curl is alwasy zero (provided the function is not pathological to disallow interchange of partial derivatives). i.e.
$$\nabla \cdot (\nabla \times \vec{V})$$
user228700
@Ramanujan: U try it once and tell me what answer u get, without explaining the reasoning behind it. Then, we shall discuss...I am not getting the correct value.
user116211
12:56
@Secret Divergence of curl?
yup
user116211
It's zero :(
user116211
Go on....
Now suppose we have $\vec{V}=\int_{\mathbb{R}^3}\frac{1}{||r||^n}d^3r$
it is clear that it will diverge because when r=0, it will blow up
How can the divergence of curl =0 be ensured despite this divergence?
I don't know what integral points men,googling
12:58
@Kaumudi I'm getting 331
More generally, if $\vec{V}$ is a vector field given by an expression that diverges (as in , blown up to infinity), how does divergence of curl is still ensured?
@Kaumudi 100?
@Kaumudi iam not introduced to this concept till now.
13:16
@Secret $\int_{\mathbb R^3}\frac1{\|r\|^n}d^3r$ is finite if $n<3$ :)
user228700
@DHMO Yes, that's correct. How..?
@Kaumudi well, what are you getting?
user228700
1331 :/
@Kaumudi and how?
user228700
What I did was, I consider a plane.
13:18
@s.harp The identity holds without any $\vec{V}$ being specified, other than it has to be continous. Therefore how does the identity handle cases where $\vec{V}$ is some expression such that it blows up to infinity when evaluated, or is the identity not hold for unbounded $\vec{V}$?
user228700
Starting from the back, going all the way to the front.
user228700
There are 11 such planes.
user228700
(For integral values)
@Secret what identity are you talking about? div of grad is 0?
div curl = 0
user228700
13:19
And on every plane, there are $11^2$ points.
not sure what that has to do with your integral :)
@Kaumudi oh... you viewed it as a cube! 1331 is precisely 11 cubed
yeah i meant curl my bad
that image is flat @Kaumudi
user228700
@DHMO Yes.
user228700
13:20
@DHMO WHAT?!
@Kaumudi that image is flat
user228700
Oh man, wtf.
just like the earth
user228700
Lol :-P
(I'm just kidding)
user228700
13:21
Yeah, I got that :-P Okay, thanks man.
@s.harp well, if I choose a $\vec{V}$ which is unbounded, then while geometrically we can always reason with helmhortz theorem that the curl will pick out the culr component while the divergence will pick out the source term, if we actually do the computation, how can the unbounded nature of $\vec{V}$ be dealt with when $\nabla$ tries to operate on a term that is basically speaking, infinity?
user228700
@Ramanujan Oh, but I thought u finished straight lines :/
notions of derivative require certain "local" smoothness. if you are looking at a function that explodes to infinity at some point, well then curl grad etc cannot be defined at this point.
but if the point is isolated and the function smooth enough on the surrounding areas, then near any point you can find an open set which does not contain your singularity. so the function will be locally well behaved and div curl = 0 will hold everywhere except where these thigns are not defined
Ah, I see
also you know gauß theorem, right something like $\int_{V} \textrm{div} F = \int_{\partial V} F dA$
you would think that this should imply $\int_{\partial V} \mathrm{curl} F dA=0$ for all vector fields $F$
since you can use div curl = 0
but this is not true
you can find vector fields that are smooth in some neighbourhood of the edge of $V$, but for which no smooth extension exists onto the inner of $V$
let me see if i can find an example
13:32
It's not there in straight lines to me,(alot of difference)
13:43
ok so one "example" could be something where $\mathrm{curl} F = \frac1{r^3}\begin{pmatrix}x\\y\\z\end{pmatrix}$ and $V=B_1(0)$. Then the integral over $\int_{\partial V}\mathrm{curl} F dA = \int_{\partial V}r^2 \frac1{r^4} e_r \cdot e_r d\Omega = 4\pi $
you have that the divergence of the field given is zero, so locally at any point you can always find a vectorfield $F$ so that $\mathrm{curl} F$ has that form. This doesn't imply that you can piece your local fields together to get something that has that curl globally, though
What surface is $B_1$? Cause any attempt I tried to pictorially and mentally piece a vector field F that give the above radial curl seemed to have all those microscopic circulations cancelling each other out on any closed surface, or is this a bad way to understand what happened?

Or in short, how can one have a curl of a vector field that is radial without all microscopic circulations represent by curlF anywhere to cancel out?

(I am really bad at analysis intuitions, sorry for that...)
(I can see how the maths holds, though, and I am trying to get the geometric picture to match up)
sorry $B_1(0)$ is the ball of unit radius, the surface $\partial B_1(0)$ is the $2$ sphere in $\mathbb R^3$ with radius one
You will not find a vector field that is smooth globally that has as a curl the given field. Indeed you will not find a smooth vector field that has on any open set a curl the same as the given
the proof that it is not possible globablly can be seen from the Gauß theorem, suppose it were so, ie there exists a smooth $F$ with $\mathrm{curl}(F)=\frac1{r^4} e_r$ in some open region (for simplicty let the open region contain $\partial B_1(0)$). Then use $0\neq\int_{\partial B_1(0)}\mathrm{curl}F=\int_{B_1(0)}\mathrm{div(curl}(F)) = 0$
14:00
[Attempting to picture F] So geometrically, you mean unlike most vector fields encountered in undegraduate, this vector field F is only locally defined for each point in $\mathbb{R}^3$ such that curlF is the above radial expression, but it is not smooth, in a sense that its derivatives is discontinous everywhere?
There is a kind of point that I am not expressing very well here, mainly that while $\mathrm{div}\ \mathrm{curl}$ is always zero when it is defined on vector fields, that if the domain of smoothness is not all $\mathbb R^3$ there can some sort of non-zero "mass" of $\mathrm{div}\ \mathrm{curl} F$ left over in the non-smooth points. This "mass" can be seen for example via violations of the Gauß law
Has anyone done 4-dimensional group theory (symmetry point-groups)?
@Secret about this special case of $F$: I know that for small enough balls around any point of $\partial B_1(0)$ you can find a smooth vector field $F$ so that $\mathrm{curl} F$ is the same as what we have. I do not know if you can patch together these fields to get a vector field on some neighbourhood of $\partial B_1$ (like for example on $B_2 - B_{1/2}$) that has this curl
The situation is easier in $2$ dimensions, where you have something like the gradient:
$$f(x,y)\mapsto \begin{pmatrix}\partial_x f\\ \partial_y f\end{pmatrix}$$
and something like a curl that goes to functions:
$$ \begin{pmatrix}v_1\\ v_2\end{pmatrix}\mapsto -\partial_y v_1+\partial_x v_2$$
You can check quickly that the composition of the two maps is always zero. There is also an analogue of the Gauß theorem:
$$\int_A (d \vec{v})\ dxdy = \int_{\partial A} \vec{v}\cdot d\gamma$$
where $\gamma$ is a sort of oriented line element along the path of integration
hm i think i have confused myself unfortunately
I suspect the curl map should map from a vector to a vector, instead of a vector to a scalar?
14:15
No, I only called it a curl, normally both things are called the exterior derivative. But I know now how to continue^
if you look at $f=\arctan (x/y)$ note that this is well defined everywhere on $B_1(0)-\{0\}$, ie well defined everywhere except at a point
yup
also you see that $d f = \begin{pmatrix}-y/(x^2+y^2)\\x/(x^2+y^2)\end{pmatrix}$
yup
@DHMO I wonder your too get doubts
@Ramanujan sure, I often ask questions
14:19
so you should expect, from the anology of $\mathrm{curl}\ \mathrm{grad} = 0$ and our 2d gauß that $\int_{S^1} (df) d\gamma=0$, since $S^1$ is the boundary of $B_1(0)$ and we have that $df$ is the gradient of a function "almost everywhere" inside $B_1(0)$.
yup, df is basically radial thus for the $\gamma$ on $S_1$ the integral is going to sum to zero
However if we calculate this integral, we will see the following:
$$\int_0^{2\pi} d\phi \begin{pmatrix} -\sin(\phi)/1\\ \cos(\phi)/1 \end{pmatrix}\cdot \begin{pmatrix}-\sin(\phi)\\ \cos(\phi)\end{pmatrix} = \int_0^{2\pi}d\phi (\sin^2+\cos^2) = 2\pi$$
the problem is i havent explained how we integrate these line elements, but in the case of hte circle $d\gamma = \vec e_\phi d\phi$, which is sort of similar to how we integrate vector fields over areas in $\mathbb R^3$
How does the hole at $\{0\}$ contribute to the curl?

, I only recall back in class they have show this example and said that if the domain of integration is not simply connected then (forgot) will not hold and a line integral in a radial vector field will not be conservative
This is a sort of "moral" or "global" violation of $\mathrm{curl}\ \mathrm{grad}=0$, since we can also do the following:
$$\int_{S^1} df d\gamma = \int_{S^1} df d\gamma - \int_{S^1_\epsilon} df d\gamma + \int_{S^1_\epsilon} df d\gamma = \int_{B_1 - B_\epsilon} ddf + \int_{S^1_\epsilon} df d\gamma$$
where $S^1_\epsilon$ is the circle of radius $\epsilon$. The first term in the last expression is zero (because $ddf=0$) and you find that the integral does not change if you shrink the curve to an arbitrarily small circle, which sort of motivates how the mass of the term is located at the singularity
Hmm I see
So I am guessing, if this is phrased in terms of the microscopic circulation animations that is often used in some vector calculus motivation or visualisation, the curling vector field is basically localised at the singular point
that is, you basically have a vector field F defined at one point such that the curl is nonzero
14:36
Maybe it would be more accurate to say that there is a sort of analogy for a (non-continuous) source term of the curl that is localised at one point, where the curl no longer is continuous/smooth
Yeah, that's what I am thinking
So applying the 2D analogy to the 3D case above, this is what I get for F:
Because every circulation is localised in a $\epsilon$ neighbourhood of $\partial B_1(0)$, they cannot cancel each other out. So in a sense, F is made of a bunch of curl sources that decays in strength at $\frac{1}{r^3}$
Is this a 3-manifold? $\{x,y,z|x^2+y^2+z^2<1\}$
@DHMO Yes.
It's the open 3-ball.
I don't know what every "circulation being localised in a neighbourhood" is supposed to mean though
morning
14:44
@BalarkaSen ok, thanks
@BalarkaSen Is this a 3-manifold? $\{x,y,z|x^2+y^2+z^2\le1\}$
@s.harp I think, roughly speaking, is that a (non-continuous) source term of the curl that is localised at one point, and these "curl source points" completely filled all of $\partial B_1$, is that a good way to phrase it?
Is it that that Moebius strip is non-orientable is because of its edge?
@s.harp if you know any physics stuff, then you can draw electric/magnetic fields in accordance with Maxwell's equation for curl and div of those fields
which is a nice vein of examples
The result is that F is only smooth along the radial direction, but not smoth along the angular or azimuth direction
@Secret oh, the curl source would be outside of $\partial B_1(0)$, depending on how you extend $F$ (if possible at all to have $F$ defined on a neighbourhood of $\partial B_1$) you could have it localised at $0$
but also on $\partial B_{1/2}$ for example, depending on the extension of $F$. But $F$ will be non-smooth wherever these curl sources are located
14:49
@DHMO It's a 3-manifold with boundary.
@BalarkaSen What is special about this manifold? $\{x,y,z|\tfrac18<x^2+y^2+z^2<1\}$
i.e. 3-dimensional analogue of genus?
there's no 3-dimensional analogue of genus
There is no 3-dimensional analogue of genus. But what you wrote down is a handlebody, which is a special kind of 3-manifold. Namely, it's "inside" of the torus.
ok thanks both of you
isnt it a $3$ dimensional annulus?
14:52
Yeah, it's boundary is disjoint union of two spheres. My bad.
the inside of a torus has non conctractable loops I think, but here you can blow any loop to the surface of an $S^2$ and contract it there
hey samuel
hi @SamuelY
14:55
@s.harp , does that look similar to what you have in mind?
how's stuff with you guys?
alright
I feel kind of groggy today
same honestly
we can get through it together
no-sleep cru
let's do it bro
14:57
@Semiclassical Our's not trivial, because we are talking about an F such that curl is radial, of which there are no non global smooth examples
@Secret are the circles "sources" of the curl?
yup
ah. that's a nice starting point for a physics example, then
microscopic circulations to be precise. They become curl sources when localised at a point
is that the usual way you would depict something like that? I don't know it for sure, but I think I remember we used circulations to depict the curl itself
so maybe a nicer picture would be something like a flow of circulation thingies coming out of the point or the inner sphere
15:01
@s.harp yup
@s.harp Well the reason I drew them like this is because I am thinking about going back from the radial field that is curl F, from each point, to F, thus for each radial vector=curlF, it corresponds to a circulation in F. But I see your point, fixing it now
Here's a physics place where this shows up: Suppose you wanted to have a magnetic monopole, i.e. a particle whose magnetic field is given by $\vec{B} = \hat{r}/r^2$
typically, one wants the vector potential for that situation, i.e. $\vec{A}$ such that $\nabla \times \vec{A}=\vec{B}$.
And this thing has no vector potential (unless you start machining things like dirac strings or multivalued fields)
right.
you can only do it if you allow for some 'string', emanating from the origin, along which the vector potential isn't defined
of course, one also has that $\nabla\cdot\vec{B}=0$ away from the origin
Hmm... I think using what s.harp and I have discussed so far, the dirac string might be acting as the "curl source" of the radial B field of the monopole
so this is a bit more constrained situation than the one you're considering
possibly
see the end for some brief discussion
15:08
@Semiclassical @Secret this $\vec B$ is the one I had written up before as $\mathrm{curl} F$, that is if $\hat r$ is the unit vector in radial direction ^^
ahah
that link has an integral representation for $\vec{A}$ everywhere in space
so you might check it out
@SamuelY So, are you dabbing in topology still?
I really like this curl source terminology, suddenly it makes things a lot more strightforward
NB I can verify the dirac string case, because it is explicitly said that the string is an infintesimal solonoid, thus given any solonoid, the A field goes in circles

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