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5:17 AM
a doubt....
if A is a subset of B then show that $(C-B)$ is a subset of $(C-A)$
i know the logic but just not able to write it
anyone has any idea of how to write this
 
Suppose $x \in C - B$. Then $x$ is in $C$, but not $B$. Hence $x \in B'$.
 
@DavidWheeler does C-B imply B is a subset of C
 
Since $A \subset B$, then $B' \subset A'$.
Hence $x$ is in $C$, and also in $A'$, which is to say $x$ is in $C$, but not $A$, that is: $x \in C - A$.
 
@SayanChattopadhyay No.
 
@SayanChattopadhyay No
 
5:27 AM
if we mention that C-B is nonempty then
 
For example, if $B = \{2,4,6,8\}$ and $C = \{2,3,4,5,6\}$, then $C - B = \{3,5\}$
 
$C - B$ means, loosely speaking, the part of $C$ that is NOT in $B$.
 
but there is a chance that a part of b might be in c
 
For any set, we have: $C = (C - B) \cup (C \cap B)$, and this union is disjoint.
 
5:30 AM
for example B=(1,2,3,4,5) and C=(1,2.3,4,5,6,7,8,9) then B is a subset of C
 
It MIGHT happen that $B$ is contained in $C$, but it doesn't HAVE to be that way.
 
okay
@DavidWheeler can you prove this $A \subset B$ then $B' \subset A'$
 
How would you go about proving that?
 
i would take an element which is not in a
 
Set theory is not about "formula-manipulation", you need to THINK about what is being said.
 
5:41 AM
then it has to be in A'
so similarly for B if there is an element which is not in B it cannot be in A and it will be in A'
 
Why would you take an element not in A?
 
lets take an element which is in B
it might be in A or it might not be
if it is in A it wont be in A' but if it is not in A it will be in A'
 
When you are proving $P$ implies $Q$, you should start with $P$
In this case, $P = A\subset B$
And $A \subset B$ means: "every $a \in A$ is in $B$
 
so all the elements in A are in B
but all the elements in B are not in A
So the elements which are in not in B will be in B'
 
We then want to PROVE, that if $x \not\in B$, then $x\not\in A$.
 
5:48 AM
wait
 
Now, if we had ANY $x\not\in B$ but also $x \in A$, SINCE $A \subset B$, we would have: $x \not\in B$ and $x \in B$-how can this happen?
 
so lets take some x which is not in B then as it is given to us that A is a subset of B x cannot be in A so we are done
 
right-$A$ is "inside" $B$...if we aren't even inside $B$, there's no way we can be inside $A$
 
but how do i prove then that there is an element in B' which is inn A'
 
Start by supposing that an element is in $B'$, What does that mean to be in $B'$?
 
5:53 AM
it is not in B
then it is not in A
and has to be A'
 
If $x$ IS NOT in $B$, how can it be in $A$? If it is not in $A$, it MUST BE in $A'$.
 
thats what i wrote
 
So ANY $x$ in $B'$ will do.
 
@DavidWheeler one more doubt this time calculus
 
So your question "how do I show there is an element in B' which is in A'?" is answered.
For there to be no such element, would mean $B' = \emptyset$, but this is no problem, the empty set is a subset of any other set.
 
5:58 AM
i got the answer i just wanted to make sure it is right
can i construct a function which determines the gap between two cubes
and if i construct it how do i show that the gaps decrease at a quicker rate after sometime
what i thought was something like this
 
Do you mean like $f(x,y) = x^3 - y^3$?
 
ya the same thing but why not represent it with only one variable
 
Or perhaps, you mean $f(x) = (x + h)^3 - x^3$, where $h > 0$?
 
yes
now how do i show the gaps decrease after a certain point
 
So $f(x) = 3hx^2 + 3h^2x + h^3$
 
6:03 AM
@DavidWheeler is this some very elementrary question i am asking
 
We can take the derivative: $f'(x) = 6hx + 3h^2$
 
What kind of answer was this guy hoping for? Q
 
Note that if both $x,h > 0$ this is positive, so cubes "don't get closer together"
 
but tell me something the values for this equation x^3+Y^3+z^3=W^3 increases as the cube increases
 
that's not a clear statement-which one is "the cube", I see 4 cubed quantities.
 
6:13 AM
i mean the values for which the left hand side equals the right hand side
 
6:37 AM
Why...WHY did I leave so much of my topology set to tonight :/
 
7:00 AM
@AlexWertheim, I finished exercise 5.18 from our topology set. Really fun problem; thanks for recommending it to me!
 
There should be a version of that where the buttons say "Yes" and "No", but the text stays the same.
"WHERE IS THE CANCEL BUTTON?!"
 
I'm relatively calm. I know I can finish this set and even get an A on it, but I won't be sleeping.
 
Time for Adderall ;)
 
@infinitesimalsimplicio ¿qué tal amigo?
 
Huy
7:40 AM
Estoy muy bien.
 
0
Q: Have you seen this topology before? (related to Furstenberg's arithmetic sequences)

Enjoys MathAccording to this topology article, we could replace $b$ in $a + b\Bbb{Z}$ with $b^{k}$ for any fixed $k \gt 0$ and we should still have a topology. For instance unions of subsets of the form $a + b^k \Bbb{Z}$. I verified the $\cap$ property for bases. You could go further and even do unions o...

Don't take speed, smoke weed
 
8:22 AM
Hi.
 
Hey
 
My OCD is terrible now. =(
 
Does its severity change drastically over short time periods?
 
It changes when events happen, events which make it worse. These events are often unpredictable, or not predicted to make it worse.
 
Hi pal @JasperLoy
 
8:32 AM
@infinitesimalsimplicio Hi. I am sad because these few days I made some mistakes which made my condition worse.
 
Have you told your doc @JasperLoy?
 
@infinitesimalsimplicio Happened after I saw him. Anyway I will try to deal with it myself now.
 
May I suggest you tell him immediately? @jasp
 
@infinitesimalsimplicio Not necessary, this kind of thing happens all the time.
 
9:23 AM
I'm working on a proof that $s_n\rightarrow\infty$ then $(s_n)^2\rightarrow\infty$ (introductory analysis), so I need to show that for all numbers $M$ there is $N$ s.t. $(s_n)^2\geq M$, whenever $n\geq N$
in taking the hypothesis on similar problems involving proofs for converging series, it generally involved constructing a manipulation of the hypothesis condition that could arrive at what is needed, but it was not quite clear to me how it can be done in a diverging case such as this
this is homework so I'd rather just have a nudge in the right direction, feel free to ask me a question
a vanilla hypothesis guarantees a $s_n\geq M$
 
Hi.
 
9:39 AM
hi
 
9:50 AM
@TedShifrin That cube with a quarter twist problem?
But surely it isn't that hard? It's a bit tedious to go through all the boundary maps but definitely not hard.
 
Holla amigo @stan
Muy bien, gracias ¿y tu?
 
10:14 AM
Hey @BalarkaSen
I did 5.20 per your recommendation :)
 
I've forgotten what the problem was.
 
Showing that the unit square under the lexicographic order topology is not metrizable
 
ahh, right, right.
so, how did you do it?
 
There was another problem that Alex Wertheim recommended to me dealing with the Zariski topology. Very fun as well.
 
@KajHansen <--- hates nonhausdorff topologies.
 
10:19 AM
@BalarkaSen, I showed that it was compact, but not separable. Then I proved that all compact metric spaces are separable. Thus, if it was metrizable, then it would necessarily be separable, which is a contradiction.
 
i kinda just think of zariski topology as a language. i mean, i don't think you can "do anything with it".
but then again, i haven't studied a lot of commutative algebra.
 
Apparently it's important in algebraic geometry?
 
@KajHansen cool.
@KajHansen surely, but i am not sure if it serves as a topology.
 
Oh I see, just as a useful tool?
 
well, a language. you can't do much topology over algebraic curves. the real useful analogy goes back to Grothendieck which i know nothing of. so i am not the right person to ask.
 
10:35 AM
That's mesmerizing.
 
indeed.
@KajHansen Fancy pathological spaces much?
 
@BalarkaSen, what do you mean?
Oh
"Fancy" as a verb. Yeah, they're cool
 
okay : find a connected space such that removing a single point makes it totally disconnected.
it's not really hard, but fun.
 
Oh interesting. I'll give it some thought when I finish my problems
 
sure
 
10:49 AM
@BalarkaSen, $|X| = 2$ w/ the trivial topology? :P
 
er.. how about a connected space such that removing a single point leaves a non-point space that is totally disconnected?
 
LOL
Moving the goal posts are we?
 
haha, i am just trying to convince myself that the problem was not as hard as i thought.
otherwise my beautiful example would end up being unnecessary. boohoo.
 
@BalarkaSen hi
Can I ask you a doubt
 
11:02 AM
anybody see the analysis question? :<
 
@BalarkaSen the question is :
let f(x)=tanx,
We know that f(Π/4)=1,f(3Π/4)=-1
So according to Bolzano's theorem there should be a value
 
I feel like I must be missing something obvious since I did the "harder" listed problems around it but got no insight
 
Between (Π/4) and (3Π/4 ) for which f(x) should be equal to 0 but there isn't one and it still doesn't contradict the theorem why @BalarkaSen
 
@SayanChattopadhyay think about it. what are the conditions for bolanzo's theorem to be true?
look at the graph of tan between $x = \pi/4$ and $3\pi/4$
it would help.
 
The function should be continuous,
It is not
 
11:07 AM
and is $\tan$ continuous, at, say, $\pi/2$?
 
Hello!! Could someone tell me if the comment at the answer is correct??
1
Q: Characteristic curves

Mary StarWe have the equation $$2u_{xx}-u_{tt}+u_{xt}=f(x, t)$$ This is equal to $$\left (\frac{2\partial^2}{\partial{x^2}}-\frac{\partial ^2}{\partial{t^2}}+\frac{\partial ^2}{\partial{x}\partial{t}}\right )u=f$$ To find the characteristics do we solve the homogeneous equation $$\frac{2\partial^2}{\p...

 
Tan is continuous between (0,Π/2)
 
why should that mean $\tan$ is continuous at $\pi/2$?
for example $1/x$ is continuous between $(-\infty, 0)$ and between $(0, \infty)$. does that mean it's continuous at $0$?
 
That means tan is not continuous at the intervals I mentioned
 
@SayanChattopadhyay i am just asking you to prove whether or not tan is continuous at $\pi/2$
if you have done that, you can explicitly prove why Bolanzo's theorem is not applicable.
 
11:13 AM
Okay it is not
 
prove it
 
Hello @KajHansen!! Are you familiar with characteristic curves??
 
tanx=sinx/cosx
 
Hello @ThomasAndrews!! Are you familiar with characteristic curves??
Hello @BalarkaSen!! Are you familiar with characteristic curves??
 
At Π/2 the denominator become 0 and of is undefined
 
11:15 AM
@SayanChattopadhyay and that's not a proof of anything.
recall the definition of continuity.
 
Then use the left hand limit and right hand limit should be equal
 
yes, so why aren't you doing that?
 
It should be equal toghe value of the function at that point
 
well, you have to prove that tan is not continuous so you should be proving that the limits are not equal.
why don't you get to the calculations instead of writing everything vaguely?
 
Is it right that the integral curve of a zero point of a vector field is always constant?
in other words zeros of vector fields are fixed points of flow?
 
11:18 AM
Hello @DanielFischer!! Are you familiar with characteristic curves??
 
Hello!!! Could you take a look at my question?
1
A: Differential equation Laguerre $xy''+(1-x)y'+ay=0, a \in \mathbb{R}$

Bennett GardinerYou have already done that third part, notice that if $a = n \in \mathbb{N}$ then $a_{i} = 0$ for all $i \ge n+1$. So you have a polynomial of degree $n$ as a solution. For the last part, just some ideas - try differentiating the Leguerre polynomial and substituting it into the equation. Or, co...

 
@BalarkaSen isn't the limit 1/0
 
1/0 is not even a real number.
 
That's what it is undefined
Limit dosent exist
 
sigh to prove that $\tan$ is not continuous at $\pi/2$, you have to show that $\lim_{x \to \pi/2 + 0} \tan(x) \neq \lim_{x \to \pi/2 - 0} \tan(x)$
 
11:23 AM
wait
 
note that $\lim_{x \to \pi/2 + 0} \tan(x) = +\infty$ whereas $\lim_{x \to \pi/2 - 0} \tan(x) = -\infty$
so there you go.
 
What is 1/0 I finity
Simple
 
1/0 is not infinity.
 
Undefined
 
do you know the definition of $\infty$ in the context of limits?
@SayanChattopadhyay yes, it's undefined, which is not $\infty$.
you've got loads of wrong concepts.
 
11:26 AM
Well at least I was able to do all other question involving derivatives and limits and continuity
And yes I have mastered epsilon delta proof
 
but your concept of 1/0 being infinity is just wrong!
 
Blame my teacher
U know he wrote tan(90°) is infinity
When I was in 8 th standard
 
the way we define $+\infty$ is "something that is greater than all the other real numbers" and $-\infty$ being "something that is smaller than all the other real numbers". you can do this very rigorously by constructing a set by adjoining two elements with the set of all reals and appropriately defining a partial/total order.
that $\lim_{x \to 0^+} 1/x = +\infty$ doesn't mean $1/0 = +\infty$.
 
Or if the value of function is increasing and increasing.....
 
@SayanChattopadhyay i thought you were studying calculus from spivak? i am pretty sure he doesn't say anywhere that 1/0 is infinity.
 
11:33 AM
Well @BalarkaSen I am studying spivak but he doesn't mention what is infinity
So @BalarkaSen is 0/0 infinity
 
weird. i wouldn't know, since i never studied from spivak. but anyway, now you know what is infinity.
 
I think it might be undefined
 
@MaryStar No, I'm not.
 
@SayanChattopadhyay it's not. dividing anything by anything doesn't give you infinity.
 
Ok... @DanielFischer
 
11:35 AM
@BalarkaSen that's what I wrote
 
0/0 is not undefined, either.
roughly, it can be "anything". that's why we call it indeterminate.
 
Indeterminate....lhospital rule
 
you have done differentiation, right, @Sayan?
 
@BalarkaSen how are you going with topology
Yup
 
can you differentiate $x^x$?
probably you have done it already, though. i bet it's in Spivak.
 
11:37 AM
Using chain rule
 
well, do it.
 
Oh idea
Use implicit differentiation
Done
 
well, write down your calculations.
 
ln(x+1)x^x
Let y=x^x
Take natural logarithm on both sides
 
right, exactly.
good approach.
 
11:42 AM
1/y.y'=xlnx
Differentiate the right hand side which I forgot to do
Gives you using product rule ln(x+1)
Multiply by y on both sides
 
off-topic : i've usually done these problems by using partial differentiation. there's a result that tells you that total derivative of a function $df(x, y)$ is always $\frac{\partial f}{\partial x} dx + \frac{\partial f}{\partial y} dy$. now you can differentiate $x^y$ using this very easily and subbing in $x = y$ gives you the desired. it's a cool trick.
okay, now i've got to go.
 
In partial differentiation you differentiate by making one as a constant right.....actually I have to do it but I will in few weeks
Bye....
 
Never even heard of them @MaryStar
 
Ok... No problem... :-)
Isn't PDE an obligatory subject at your university?? @KajHansen
 
It isn't. Only the calc sequence, linear algebra, one semester of abstract algebra, and one of (real analysis / complex analysis / differential geometry) are required @MaryStar.
Beyond that, I can choose whatever courses interest me.
 
11:51 AM
Our school doesn't even offer PDE :(
 
At my university it is required...
 
a tad confused by what is meant by the converse here: i.imgur.com/nHFqDHx.png
the choice of L would seem dependent on the forward statement being at least convergent, would a converse here simply be referring to a sequence like 1,-1,1,-1,1,... able to meet the hypothesis of the converse? (despite having no obvious choice for "L"?)
there it is ^
I already proved the forward case relatively trivially with a variation of the triangle inequality
 
@ᴇʏᴇs I am going to take a nap, hope my miracle comes soon.
 
Good night @JasperLoy
 
12:08 PM
I remember seeing a question that asked for different visualizations of mathmathical principles. I'm pretty sure I saw it here on Math.SE. It demonstrated things like Sin/Cos in intuitive ways.
Anyone know if I'm in the right place?
 
12:36 PM
assuming my understanding of what was intended by the converse above, I only need help on the one analysis problem
(showing $s_n\rightarrow\infty\implies (s_n)^2\rightarrow\infty$)
where divergence to infinity is that for every number $M$ there is a $N\in\mathbb{Z}$ such that $s_n\geq M$ for $n\geq N$
I've done most of these practice problems with fanciful manipulation of relevant inequalities, but have spent a while without noticing anything fruitful here, or that whatever I think of has a glaring issue
 
@GBeau I believe that it is true.
$\lim_{n \to +\infty} a_n=L$ means that $\forall \epsilon>0, \exists n_0 \in \mathbb{N}$ such that $\forall n \geq n_0: |a_n-L|< \epsilon \Rightarrow L-\epsilon< a_n<L+\epsilon$.
Since $- \epsilon-L<L-\epsilon<a_n< \epsilon+L$ we deduce that $|a_n|< \epsilon+L \leq \epsilon+|L|$.
Thus: $||a_n|-|L|| \leq |\epsilon+|L|-|L||= \epsilon$.
So $|a_n| \to |L|$.
 
@evinda I had noted $||a_n|-|L||\leq |a_n-L|$ from the triangle inequality then appealed directly to the definition of the hypothesis
which is basically the same thing :P
 
12:52 PM
@GBeau Yes, I think that this is even better. But you have to use also this inequality $|a_n|-|L| \leq ||a_n|-|L||$ to get the desired result.
 
1:10 PM
still can't get the divergent one though
 
@GBeau Which sequence do you want to show that diverges?
 
$(s_n)^2$
and specifically to positive infinity
(I asked about it directly above when you first pinged me)
 
@Kaj: And a differential equations course is required.
 
@Ted, oh sure. I think of that as a part of the calc sequence.
 
Hi @TedShifrin
 
1:24 PM
@GBeau I think that we could prove it as follows.
$s_n\rightarrow\infty\implies (s_n)^2\rightarrow\infty$

We know that $s_n \to +\infty$. That means that $\forall M>0, \exists n_0 \in \mathbb{N} $ such that $\forall n \geq n_0: s_n>M$


$s_n^2-k^2=(s_n-k)(s_n+k)$ where $k$ any positive integer.

From the above definition, $\exists n_0$ such that $\forall n \geq n_0$: $s_n>k \Rightarrow s_n-k>0$.

Also
since $s_n \to +\infty$ we have that $s_n >0 \text{ for some } n \geq n_1$ and so it holds that $s_n+k>0 \Rightarrow s_n>-k,k>0$ for $n \geq n_1$.
 
Mew
1:37 PM
196
Health

Proposed Q&A site for medical specialists, students, dietitians and anyone with health-related questions

Currently in commitment.

4 more users required for the health proposal
let us enhance our health so that we devote all our attention to mathematics
 
lol
"I commit to participate actively in Health for at least three months, especially during the private beta, and to ask or answer at least ten questions."
I have an issue with commitment so I can't do it
 
Mew
mate don't you care about health? If there is one thing to commit to, health is it.
 
@Mew Active in health yes, being active in a stackexchange about it, no
 
1:56 PM
@Mew, i just commited
 
How to prove that there do not exist three distinct real numbers a, b and c such that all of the numbers a + b + c, ab, ac, bc, abc are equal?
 
@Silent If $ab = ac = bc = abc$, then it means that all of them will have to be zero. Supposing that all of them are non-zero, we have $b = c$ from $ab = ac$ and $a = b $ from $ac = bc$. So we must have all of them equal to each other and this means that they're not distinct.
 
@ParthKohli, thanks.
 
Hi @ParthKohli
 
Hello, Eyes.
 
2:05 PM
Is it true that an integral curve passing through a zero point of the vector field is actually constant througout?
Theres always a constant maximal integral curve and so it follows from uniqueness right?
 
Good afternoon all.
 
Hi @JMoravitz
 
Just taught my class Gauss-Jordan elimination. They get confused easily, so I am trying to force myself to follow the algorithm as prescribed to a T, even if it results in fractions in inbetween steps. /sigh
"Is it a zero? No? Good. Is it a one? Yes? Good. Then what do I do next?..."
"Is it a zero? Yes? Bad. So what do I do next?..."
I'd like to think they all are getting it though. Even the football players had good questions.
The hardest part will be interpreting word problems, as usual.
 
Hello @JMoravitz!! Are you familiar with characteristic curves??
Or in general with PDE's?? @JMoravitz
 
Unfortunately not @Mary I have not looked into Partial Differential Equations yet, and am rather rusty even with ODE's. I can often help students looking for guidance on setting up a problem in ODE, but the method of actually solving I have to look up with them.
 
2:20 PM
Ok...
 
I focus mostly on combinatorics and graph theory, and have been taking what analysis and algebra courses seem to be necessary to switch into the PhD program here.
 
Interesting!!
 
@JMoravitz Do you take the subject Numerical Analysis?
 
Not yet @evinda though I've seen a few of the methods used.
 
@JMoravitz Aha! Are you a prof assistant?
 
2:24 PM
Yes, though just for a freshman undergrad course at the moment. I am currently in the Master's program here, and teach what are called 'recitations' where we briefly review the material that the professor lectured about and then run through several examples.
 
@JMoravitz Aha! Do you have an idea about Dynamic Programming?
 
As for my own studies, the problem we are working on in combinatorics currently is that of Leveled Posets which have Symmetric Chain Partitions (SCP's), Hamiltonian Cycles (HC's), Hamiltonian Cycle Symmetric Chain Partitions (HCSCP's), and what are known as strong HCSCP's.
 
@JMoravitz So is your master related to combinatorics and graphs?
I am taking this semester the subject Algorithms and Complexity and there we see graphs and Dynamic Programming.. Could I ask you something about it?
 
The term Dynamic Programming is unfamiliar to me, but I may have some intuition about it anyways. You can certainly ask,
 
2:36 PM
So, "why is polynomial time good and exponential time bad?" Well., given an input of $n$ pieces of information, we want to run some sort of algorithm on it to get a particular output to tell us something about our data. When it runs in polynomial time, for sizable $n$ it will finish the algorithm in a "reasonable" amount of time (e.g. trying to find the maximum element in a set of $n$ elements requires $n-1$ operations)
Comparing this to something that is nonpolynomial time: given a sizable $n$ it might finish the algorithm in an absurdly large amount of time (perhaps requiring more time than the universe is expected to have been in existence).
For example, computing what the graph ramsey number $Ram(K_7,K_7)$ is.
(What is the smallest $n$ for which a complete graph on $n$ vertices for which in any 2-coloring of the edges, there exists a monochromatic $K_7$)
If we were to take a guess, say we guess $k=32$, we need to look at every 2coloring of a graph on 32 vertices, (which there are $2^{32}$ such graphs), and determine if there is a monochromatic $K_7$ in that graph.
in every graph
 
oh hey I just realized, I should be getting putnam scores back any day now
 
When do they come back?
 
last time I checked, all the scores in the past 5 years came in the last week of march/very start of april
but otherwise no official date
 
@evinda as for the fourth one, yes, heapsort runs in $O(n\log n)$ time, however despite the fact that that is not exactly a "polynomial"
it is better than some polynomial, therefore we call it "polynomial time" anyways.
Something that runs in $O(f(n))$ time is "NP (non-polynomial time)" iff for every polynomial $p(n)$ you have some $N$ for which every $n\geq N$ implies that $f(n)> p(n)$
in particular, $n\log n \leq n^2$ since $\log n\leq n$
so $O(n\log n)$ is not NP, implying that it is polynomial time
The last one is rather interesting, "Each problem that belongs to NP is solved in exponential time" is definitely false, but I would give a very different reason than you.
@evinda there are times even worse than exponential time. Take for example the question of calculating Van der Werden numbers, or other results in Ramsey Theory. Some of these numbers that appear in practice in calculating an upper bound for the $n^{th}$ number are ACKERMANIC.
You have polynomial time (uses a polynomial of the form $n^k$), you have exponential time (of the form $a^n$), you have towerian (of the form $a^{b^{\ddots^n}}$, you have Wowzer functions ( yea.. not going to bother writing this one), and then a class even bigger than that, Ackermanic
In particular, a towerian function, $t(n)$ is such that for every exponential function $e(n)$ you have some $N$ such that $n\geq N$ implies $t(n)>e(n)$
similarly for comparing wowzer and ackermanic functions too
@evinda you're being rather quiet. Is what I'm saying making sense?
Also, at the rest of the peanut gallery, $\ddots$ does diagonal topleft to down right, could someone remind me what the code is for bottom left to topright dots?
 
3:00 PM
@JMoravitz I am reading now your answers carefully and I will tell you if I have understood them :)
 
3:17 PM
@JMoravitz For the first point: You said " When it runs in polynomial time, for sizable $n$ it will finish the algorithm in a "reasonable" amount of time".
With it are you referring to the polynomial time?
Also could you explain me further what a monochromatic $K_7$ is?
 
by a "reasonable" amount of time, yes, we consider "polynomial in $n$" to be "reasonable". Its not a very precise statement unfortunately, because even polynomial time algorithms can take an absurdly long time to run if the constants or powers are large enough
As for what I mean by a monochromatic $K_7$, a $K_n$ is the complete graph on $n$ vertices. (i.e. you have $n$ dots and a line between each and every one of the dots)
By monochromatic, I mean that every edge is the same color.
One can show that $Ram(K_3,K_3) = 6$. Worded in another way, at a party with six people, where each guest at the party either is friends with or is not friends with each other partyguest (and "is/isnot friends with" is reflexive), you can gaurantee that there is a group of 3 people who either are all simultaneously friends, or are all simultaneously not friends
Similarly, one can show that to be able to gaurantee a clique of four friends (every two people in the clique are friends) or a co-clique of four non-friends (every two people in the co-clique are not friends) (i.e. a square with diagonals), it will require 18 people.
relating this idea of friends and nonfriends to the definition I gave before, just color friendships with blue edges and nonfriendships with red edges
a clique of $n$ people will be a blue $K_n$ and a coclique of $n$ people will be a red $K_n$
The next number in the sequence however, $Ram(K_5,K_5)$ is still unknown. It is somewhere between 43 and 49. We do know that every ramsey number exists and is finite however, and have upper bounds.
Erdos was quoted as saying, if an alien race came and threatened the Earth with extinction unless we could produce $Ram(K_5,K_5)$, if we pooled together all of our resources, we might be able to calculate it exactly within a year, however if they ask us for $Ram(K_6,K_6)$ our only choice would be to launch a preemptive attack.
 
@JMoravitz So if we want to compute for example $Ram(K_3,K_3)$ can we consider that there two groups of three people each of the group and we check in each group if the persons are friends are not? Or have I understood it wrong?
 
3:33 PM
It appears that even combinations of small numbers of things are too much for our small brains to handle.
 
To prove $Ram(K_3,K_3)$, it suffices to show that $n=5$ is not large enough (i.e. there exists a 2coloring of $K_5$ where there is neither a red triangle nor a blue triangle), and that $n=6$ is always sufficient.
For a proof: Consider $K_5$ colored with the outer edges blue and the inner edges red. I.e. a pentagram with outside blue and the star in the middle red
You can convince yourself that there is no monochromatic triangle
To prove 6 is sufficient, look at a specific vertex. Either that vertex has five edges leaving it. Either more than half will be blue or more than half will be red. Suppose it was blue
Look at the special vertex, and three of it's neighbors along blue edges. If there is at least one blue edge between two of its neighbors that forms a blue triangle and we are done. Else, there are only red edges between its three neighbors, that is a red triangle
The proof for $Ram(K_4,K_4)$ is much longer I'm afraid, so don't ask for it.
 
can you build a 5-regular graph with 2014 vertices ?
 
@JMoravitz I am confused now... :/ I haven't understood how we compute Ram(K_3, K_3).
Do we draw 3 edges at one side and 3 other edges at the opposite side? And if so, what do we check?
 
It seems that cdn.mathjax.org is under DNS attack again.
 
3:45 PM
Ah, shoot when I drew $K_6$ I forgot the long diagonals.
 
any help with my question ?
 
@Ali.B I'm trying to work on it., attempting a proof by induction
 
Greetings
 
I tried to get a 5 regular graph of one of the dividers of 2014
and just multiply it as proof
 
@Ali.B Claim: if you can construct a 5-regular graph on $n$ vertices, then you can construct a 5-regular graph on $n+2$ vertices
 
3:48 PM
ah
2012 is much easier
 
Furthermore, you can construct a 5-regular graph on 6 vertices ($K_6$), so it follows that you can construct a 5-regular graph on any even number of vertices with $n\geq 6$
 
yes
that was what I'm aiming at
 
Do you need help with the induction step? @Ali.B or was the claim enough to get you on track?
 
well
I can prove the second part
but the first part I have no clue
"Claim: if you can construct a 5-regular graph on $n$ vertices, then you can construct a 5-regular graph on $n+2$ vertices"
 
Suppose you have a 5-regular graph on $n\geq 6$ vertices. Look at two special vertices, $x$ and $y$ and to of each of their neighbors $x_l, x_r, y_l, y_r$ such that all six of these are different vertices (we can always find such a collection of six vertices. why?)
Try to construct your graph on $n+2$ vertices in the following way. Add two new vertices, $u$ and $v$. Delete the edges between $x,x_l$ and $x,x_r$ and $y,y_l$ adn $y,y_r$.
So, the degree of $x$ and $y$ each dropped by two, whereas the degree of each of $x_l,x_r,y_l,y_r$ each dropped by one
 
3:55 PM
isn't it enough to prove that if (n*5)/2 is natural number then (n + 2 ) * 5 / 2 is a natural number ?
 
I wouldn't think so., it doesn't seem to be strong enough to imply anything
So, add an edge between $u$ and each of $x,x_r,y,y_r$, add an edge between $v$ and $x,x_l,y,y_l$, and add an edge between $u$ and $v$.
In doing so, the degrees of $x$ and $y$ each increased back up two, to return to being of degree 5, the degrees of each of $x_l,x_r,y_l,y_r$ each increased back up 1, to return to being of degree 5,
 
so i should build 2016 regular
 
and each of $u$ and $v$ are of degree 5. Therefore, we have a 5-regular graph on n+2 vertices
$\square$
 
of 336 k6,
 
Why bother, you could construct a connected graph in the method I described with induction.
and 2014 is not divisible by 6, so you cannot make a disjoint union of howevermany copies of $K_6$
 
3:59 PM
sorry
here is my idea
induction seems a bit way over board for the queastion
 

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