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9:00 PM
or something
 
It seems so, it's the second exercise using the idea of 'too many elements of order $x$' that I encounter
 
(otherwise it would be cyclic and thus abelian)
 
Thanks!
 
@Alizter There's no reason to believe it doesn't contain a product of cyclic groups as a subgroup.
 
Am I thinking about normal subgroups?
I did this a while ago
 
9:02 PM
No, a non-abelian group can have cyclic (or products of cyclic) groups as normal subgroups.
 
I can literally breifly remember lagrange and cayleys theorems
 
@NajibIdrissi So what have you been thinking about lately?
 
In math?
(@MikeMiller)
 
Sure!
 
TQFTs take a lot of my time right now
 
9:04 PM
What sort of questions, in particular?
 
Hard to say. I'm mostly trying to go through the literature right now
 
Gotcha.
 
There has been so much activity in the realm of extended TQFTs these past years, it's crazy
What about you?
 
I don't have an idea about what people are thinking about at all there.
 
What's the TQFT, @Najib?
(Also, hey!) ^_^
 
9:07 PM
@Khalil It's a Topological Quantum Field Theory
Basically a way to compute invariants of manifolds by breaking them up in smaller spaces
 
Why is it called Quantum?
 
I'm a first-year, so just learning about things involved in what I might work in; it looks like that might be low-dimensional topology. I'm trying to learn some of the basic Floer homology theoey and am taking a gauge theory course in the winter.
 
Actually, that exercise seems wrong. It seems it must have more than a single, unique sylow-5 subgroup
 
@Alizter a quantum field theory is a quantum analog of a classical field theory
 
@NajibIdrissi Quantum meaning?
 
9:09 PM
Very roughly, because it turns disjoint union into tensor product (instead of direct sums like a "classical" thing)
 
@Venus will you candidate for a mod position? I'd feel more comfortable in a world ruled by women! :D
 
ok
 
@Mike Ah, interesting
 
Sounds interesting. And way above my head.
 
I wish I knew more about this stuff, it comes up often but I don't even know the basics
 
9:10 PM
we're together on that one
hopefully soon I'll know a thing or two, though
 
Why wouldn't you nominate yourself? I assure you my vote will be yours ^^
 
@Alizter Well that depends on your background, but there are probably accessible introductions somewhere
If you know linear algebra and category theory you should be able to understand the basics
(And manifolds)
 
Well I don't know cateogory theory or manifolds :P
I am studying Lie theory soon
 
@Venus I'd be very tough (totally correct I mean) as a ruler, and probably I got annoyed many many times that will lower terribly the quality of my life. Well, I appreciate your intention. You also have my vote! :-)
 
Oh, this is awesome. By sylow theorems, it has precisely 1 sylow-subgroup of order 13, and one of order 31. If it would've had precisely 1 of order 5, than it would be the product of these cyclic-subgroups, which would mean it is abelian - contradicting the fact it's non abelian.
Opposite of what they wanted me to prove..
 
9:13 PM
@Studentmath Is that true? I thought something is only a product of its sylow subgroups if it's nilpotent.
If you can show that a group of order 2015 is nilpotent...
 
Cross-product, yes
 
So I don't see the contradiction you want.
 
@MikeMiller What are some examples of countably infinite groups apart from Z?
 
The exercise is wrong, I think - it happened a couple of times
 
@Chris'ssis I'm afraid I'm not qualified for being a mod.
Anyway, where's the other female users? We should have feminism movement here on MSE
 
9:15 PM
$\mathbb{Z} \times \mathbb{Z}$ @alizter
 
@Venus Yeah, that's a good point. Where is the feminism movement here on MSE? :-)
 
@NajibIdrissi OK what about groups other than Z^n
 
Well $\mathbb{Z}^n \times G$ where $G$ is finite, for example.
 
OK what about nothing to do with Z
 
@Alizter The product of any two countable infinite groups is countablt infinite; the product of an infinite group with a finite group is infinite; the countable direct sum of (at most countable) groups is infinite
 
9:17 PM
Or $(\mathbb{Z}/2\mathbb{Z})^\omega$...
 
countably* infinite
 
Or the free product of two nontrivial groups
 
@Chris'ssis Who's a well-known female users here on MSE?
 
amWhy is a woman, as far as I know
 
@Mike no need for nilpotent - the theorem states that if $G$ is of finite order $n$, $n=p_1^{k_1}*p_2^{k_2}*...$, and for every $p_i$, $G$ has a singly sylow-subgroup of order $p_i$, then $G$ is the cross-product of all it's sylow subgroups
 
9:18 PM
@Venus amWhy I think
 
Sure, $\Bbb Z_2 * \Bbb Z_2 = \text{Dih}_\infty$ is a great example.
@Studentmath Cool, didn't know that.
 
@Chris'ssis Jesus! She is indeed a Queen.
I didn't know that she is a woman
 
Does it matter?
@Mike I didn't either, my book knows it though
 
amWhy = amY = amy
 
@Studentmath Women are underrepresented in math, so yes, it's nice to know that not all the prominent users here are men...
 
9:20 PM
We talk about feminism here guys
 
I see people as gender neutral if there name doesn't give it away.
Also I don't care.
 
@Studentmath @MikeMiller This is done by induction, if there's a single $p$-Sylow it's normal
 
amWhy = I am Woman Hey Ya :D
 
@Najib interesting, about 70% of my uni's top proffessors are females, in the Mathematics division
Yes, the proof is really elegant, compared to what I would think
 
@Najib yeah, I see how it works. I just found it surprising.
 
9:25 PM
@studentmath interesting
 
I am thinking. Maybe a silly thought. But can groups have a negative order?
 
Well it's getting late here... Good night!
 
Good night @Najib! Thanks for your help
 
(@Alizter no, a set can't have a negative number of elements)
 
An extension for negative orders
 
9:26 PM
Hm
There's something called a stack which can somewhat behave like something of negative dimension
 
@NajibIdrissi You could say that about negative quantities
 
But that's not really the same thing
Anyway, I need to sleep; see you all
 
bye
Well I wouldn't call them groups
But a similar notion
 
Hey
 
Hi @KajHansen
What do you think of my above question?
 
9:32 PM
@Alizter, the algebraic closure of the field $\mathbb{Z}_p$.
 
@Alizter I think you need to make it more precise to make anything of it. What does it mean to have negative order? What does it mean to be "something like a group"?
 
Hey guys, quick quick question. I need a sequence in which the elements $x_k \rightarrow 0$ but $k \cdot x_k$ is unbounded.
 
Which is a group under addition.
 
@Kaj The group under addition isn't very interesting, it's just the sum of countablf many copies of $\Bbb Z/p\Bbb Z$. Its multiplicative group is.
 
9:34 PM
Sure @MikeMiller. But Alizter was asking about countably infinite groups other than Z, haha
 
Hey @robjohn Could you maybe help me at this exercise: math.stackexchange.com/questions/1052007/…
 
I was going to say the multiplicative group, but then I would have had to put in extra effort to say we'd be excluding zero, haha
 
If any of you want to give me a hint as to what the surface in this problem is, feel free :) It's my last homework problem of the year!
 
@Alizter The points Asaf makes are the ones I was. Maybe read the paper Igor Pak links.
 
I think asafs answer in thtat MO
damn you beat me
So I was thinking this would also be a problem for rational cardinality of sets?
forgetting groups.
Just talking about sets
 
9:37 PM
I don't really understand why you want to define rational cardinality.
 
@Alizter so a set with 2 and a half members?
 
@ypercube Kind of yes
@MikeMiller I guess the best motivation is because I am curious
Can we get any problems? I do not think a modification of Asafs answer will work
I will think about this
 
@Alizter it's not exactly what you describe but you might be interested to read about Surreal Numbers.
 
@robjohn What happened?
@robjohn Whenever I tell you about that integral, you disconnect :)
I give up!
Somebody !
 
@FreeMind which integral?
 
9:41 PM
The paper Pak links is interesting, If odd.
 
1
Q: Approximate $F(\theta)=\sin(\theta)\int_{-l}^{l} e^{-ikz\cos \theta} h(z)\,dz$

FreeMind$$F(\theta)=\sin(\theta)\int_{-l}^{l} e^{-ikz\cos \theta} h(z)\,dz$$ We know that $F(\theta)$ is defined on $0\le \theta \le \pi$ and $h(z)$ is defined on $|z|\le l$ and $z$ is real in this case, but it might be complex too! That is all we know, how can we find the $h(z)$ by having knowledge of $...

Please
Somebody please beat the crap out of this damn integral!
@robjohn Every time, I gave you that integral, you did not respond anymore!
 
@FreeMind That's a question on MO... I answered a question on MSE.
 
@robjohn Well, the problem was not solved anyway!
 
Do there happen to be any known results about the spectrum of $S_l + S_r$, where $S_l$ and $S_r$ are the left and right shifts on $l_2[0,\infty)$? If I knew that I could solve a problem I've been working on unsuccessfully for what feels like ages.
 
I think it is on page 6
 
9:43 PM
@FreeMind The one on MSE was, unless you changed it after my answer. I see that the one on MO has not gotten even any comments.
 
@robjohn Yeah, but the one on MSE was different question!
 
@Alizter I mean, you first need to write down a theory and notion of cardinality in which such things exist. Asaf's answer is that for negative cardinality, any such theory has bad qualities. It's not obvious how to get any naively from the notion of rational cardinality. But I bet if you wrote down such a thwory I would call it silly.
 
This is different question!
 
@FreeMind Yes. I know. I answered it.
 
@robjohn Thank you :) , but now the main question is the one I asked on MO
 
9:44 PM
@FreeMind Yes, I know and it is one MO. Why are you not asking about it there?
 
@MikeMiller Maybe I am being overnaive but I was thinking about quotient groups where they didn't obey lagrange.
 
I asked the same question with bounty in MSE +300 but no one answered!
@robjohn Nobody answers!
 
@FreeMind I never saw that question.
 
@robjohn I posted my question thousands of times with bounty over here
Nobody cared!
 
Unfortunately the paper is quire technical
 
9:45 PM
@Alizter If you can write down an actual question, I can try to answer it. But your question as it stands is too vague to say anything about.
 
@MikeMiller That is the problem with my thinking at the moment.
 
@FreeMind perhaps no one knows how to answer it. Have you considered that?
 
Half the time I am not sure what the hell I am thinking about.
Maybe it is the cough syrup talking
 
Well, a good exercise with any thought is to turn it into a concise, well-founded thought.
 
@FreeMind It is probably not because nobody cares.
 
9:47 PM
@robjohn Yes, that is why I am asking you! because you had told me about writing both sides in fourier series.
 
@FreeMind On the MO question? I thought you said I just left every time you mentioned it.
@FreeMind I think I suggested trying that, but I don't know if that gets you anything.
 
@robjohn I was referring to recent events, once I was talking about the question in the chat and you offered a way!
 
@FreeMind You said you had a solution using complex analysis. Why not post that and perhaps someone can extend that?
 
Ok
 
I never understood why Dihedral groups need to be indexed as 2n?
Why not index them as n.
The order is not too hard to derive
and anything other than 2n doesn't make much sense anyways
</rant>
 
9:50 PM
Personal taste. Some people denote then one way, some the other. I prefer $D_n$.
 
My book goes with $D_n$
 
@FreeMind You post what appears to be a pretty difficult question with no background. Here it would probably be closed as not having enough background or because you have not shown work. On MO, it just sits.
 
@robjohn Because I have no idea to beat it, the question is what it is, and it is supposed to be solved with that limited background, if it was easy, I would not ask it on MO and I would solve it sooner.The problem is, it gives the same feeling to me as the one who intends to help me to solve it.
 
@FreeMind When you ask about it, I try to work on it and then you disappeared from chat before I came back. I computed the FT but the kernel you get does not seem to offer an easy way to invert to get $h$ from $F$
@FreeMind I thought you said you had a way to solve it, but you were looking for another way.
 
@robjohn I have a way not completely from me, but from a book, and that book offers a complex analysis approach, but the person who asked me this question, told me, it should be solved and approximated(not exactly) by the fourier series basic methods
@robjohn And you are right, I left the chat and it was my fault, because I was so frustrated, every time I see this integral, I feel like shit.
@robjohn Even the approach in the book is hard to follow.
@robjohn Can you make a chat room so I can share the link of the book?
@robjohn ?
 

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