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8:04 AM
@Ethereal You're the head of the tautology club.
 
user19161
Bleh and meh are very hard words. Often, I have to guess the intention of the speaker who utters them.
 
That is precisely the intention.
 
user19161
@ora I have now seen the second edition of Artin, seems he removed some exercises.
 
user19161
@GustavoBandeira Maybe recognition won't be important anymore after you get it.
 
user19161
It's weird but true, many things only seem important when you don't have them yet.
 
user19161
8:19 AM
@FrankScience You mean vacation, vocation is something else.
 
@JacobBlack Yes. He also reorganized some exercises.
 
user19161
@OrangeHarvester A nutcase just downvoted three answers here math.stackexchange.com/questions/307438/…
 
@JacobBlack seems harsh.
 
user19161
@OrangeHarvester Not harsh, simply ridiculous.
 
@JacobBlack the guy is basically asking you to prove that closed balls are complete and wants to use the convergence of cauchy sequence inside a ball to do so. A good proof would be by contradiction. Assume that the ball is not complete, then there is a limit point $x_l$of the ball outside the ball, and hence $||x_l-x_0|| > R$ and then show that there exists an open ball around $x_l$ which does not have a single point of $U$ and hence the proof.
 
user19161
8:31 AM
@OrangeHarvester Why are you telling me?
 
@JacobBlack I am trying to tell why the voter must have downvoted. He expects the answer I gave and feels other answers are just roundabouts. Its too harsh to downvote though.
 
user19161
@OrangeHarvester Well, then he is clearly weak in general topology.
 
@JacobBlack Yes.
 
user19161
@OrangeHarvester Therefore, he downvotes totally correct answers that do answer the question.
 
@JacobBlack Yes.
 
user19161
8:34 AM
@OrangeHarvester I think I should delete my account soon, there are too many such nutcases here...
 
@JacobBlack You might as well want to delete your account on earth then. (Too many nutcases there. What's worse is they are IRL, you can ignore the internet nutcases.)
 
user19161
@OrangeHarvester He didn't have the balls to comment when he downvoted, because he probably doesn't know what is wrong (since there is nothing wrong).
 
I don't understand this. If you do not like someone on internet, you can just turn it off. Its not like in real life where they can shout into your ear and make you listen to them. The most they can do is hack your accounts, but then even that is something which you can prevent easily.
@JacobBlack I wrote my answer, lets see if he downvotes that.
 
user19161
@OrangeHarvester I can tell if someone competent wants to downvote for a small reason, but this case is probably someone very incompetent.
 
@JacobBlack Thanks. My English is bad. vocation = profession (if this time I were not that stupid)?
 
user19161
8:41 AM
@FrankScience Yes, roughly speaking.
 
user19161
@OrangeHarvester In fact, the answer which I think he upvoted actually is the more roundabout way of doing things, hahahaha.
 
user19161
@OrangeHarvester Once again, not harsh. Simply ridiculous. =)
 
@JacobBlack I sometimes wish you would look at it from point of someone who does not know topology yet. It is possible to define cauchy sequences and completeness completely independent of closed/open/compact. May be he is learning on that route and will soon get to closed/open sets later. May be he will get to closed sets later.
Not everyone (very few) has a bird's eye view of mathematics from the very starting.
 
user19161
@OrangeHarvester I have not used any weird definitions in my thinking there, all very standard, so this is not the issue here.
 
user19161
@OrangeHarvester Do you know that it is so much harder to prove Heine Borel? =)
 
8:50 AM
@JacobBlack you are not using any weird definitions here. But it is possible that he has not encountered them. Instead of asking for clarification, he has downvoted the three answers. I am not condoning his behaviour btw.
 
user19161
@OrangeHarvester You mean 3 answers, not the question.
 
@JacobBlack Who said anything about Heine Borel? Look at my proof. It is not the most correct proof, but it is what would be intuitive at that level.
@JacobBlack Yes.
 
user19161
@OrangeHarvester I am referring to the answer the downvoter upvoted.
 
Heine-Borel?
A complete metric space is compact if and only if it's totally bounded?
 
@JacobBlack There is only one answer with two upvotes and it is not heine borel. How do you know he has upvoted the heine borel answer?
@FrankScience that and subset of $\mathbb{R}^n$ is compact if it is closed and bounded.
 
user19161
8:52 AM
@OrangeHarvester I look at the rep history of everyone there.
 
@Victor depends on the question
 
user19161
@FrankScience A subset of Euclidean space is compact if and only if it is closed and bounded.
 
@JacobBlack okay.
 
user19161
@ora I think I know why he chose that answer to upvote: because of the magic word "Heine Borel" LOL.
 
@JacobBlack I will stop wondering about that and go back to my studies. :P
Read this. Its cool.
 
8:58 AM
It's not hard to show that a subset of $\mathbb R^n$ is totally bounded if and only if it's bounded.
 
@JacobBlack: Hi Jasper Loy!
 
user19161
@GarbageCollector Hi! I am not ignoring you. Sometimes, there is no need to reply so I don't say anything.
 
user19161
I am very upset with people who keep saying I am ignoring others.
2
 
user19161
@FrankScience That is correct.
 
Now I want to skip chapter 8~10 and go through chapter 11 of Baby Rudin about Lebesgue's theory.
That's attractive.
 
user19161
9:11 AM
@OrangeHarvester Sorry, but your proof there seems incorrect to me.
 
@JacobBlack How?
 
@GarbageCollector Hi
 
user19161
@OrangeHarvester If the ball is not complete, why should there be a limit point of the ball outside it?
 
@skullpatrol Hi @skullpatrol, how are you?
 
user19161
@ora If one negates the definition of completeness, one just has the fact that some Cauchy sequence in the ball does not converge in the ball, that is all.
 
9:16 AM
@JacobBlack A metric space M is called complete (or a Cauchy space) if every Cauchy sequence of points in M has a limit that is also in M. So, if a ball is not complete, there exists a cauchy sequence with its limit outside the ball. We can show that the limit of a cauchy sequence has to be a limit point of the ball (because the limit of the cauchy sequence has atleast one point of the ball in every open sphere around it.)
 
E.g. it may not converge at all...
 
But it's Cauchy in a complete metric space so it does converge.
 
@JacobBlack Also,
 
user19161
@OrangeHarvester First, you have implicitly used the completeness of Euclidean space there.
 
27 mins ago, by Orange Harvester
@JacobBlack Who said anything about Heine Borel? Look at my proof. It is not the most correct proof, but it is what would be intuitive at that level.
 
9:18 AM
hello
mathematician valentines day: You cauchy complete me
 
user19161
@OrangeHarvester Second, if it converges to a point outside the ball, there may not be a limit point.
 
@user58512 :D
 
@JacobBlack No worry about them. 1000 persons have 1000 different opinions.
 
@JacobBlack If every other point of cauchy is inside the ball, then the limit has to be a limit point, no?
 
user19161
A limit point is different from a limit.
 
user19161
9:20 AM
A constant sequence converges but has no limit point.
 
@JacobBlack Yeah, but that cauchy sequence is not the sequence I would consider for my completeness then.
(I do assume that a cauchy sequence converges in a euclidean metric space.)
 
@JacobBlack How do you do who downvoted a post?
 
@FrankScience he looked at the reputations and changes in them,
 
user19161
@OrangeHarvester That is not the issue, the issue is my two points above which shows the gap and flaw respectively.
 
@OrangeHarvester Ugh?
 
9:23 AM
@JacobBlack For the first point, I agree I am using the completeness of the euclidean metric space. But that is not an issue. Since, it does not trivialize the proof in any way I feel.
 
user19161
@OrangeHarvester That is just a thing you used without mentioning, not an error like I said.
 
@JacobBlack Yes.
 
user19161
Of course, I am guessing your thought processes here...
 
For the second point.
If all points of cauchy sequence are inside the ball, then the limit of the cauchy sequence has to be a limit point of the ball right? Am I wrong here?
 
user19161
If you are supposing that some Cauchy sequence in the ball converges outside the ball to get a contradiction, limit point does not come in at all.
 
user19161
9:25 AM
Like I said, a limit point is not the same as limit.
 
Hello there.
There is an interesting question. Are you interested?
Thanks for any attention at all. :)
http://math.stackexchange.com/questions/308939/commutative-ring-and-its-group-algebra-and-abelian-group-algebra-as-a-commutati
 
@JacobBlack How can we do it without getting limit point in the picture?
 
user19161
@OrangeHarvester If you want to use limit point, then there are many gaps there to fill, which I am not trying to guess here.
 
user19161
@OrangeHarvester Simply use limit instead of limit point.
 
user19161
(0,0,0,...) converges to 0 in R but has no limit point.
 
9:31 AM
Suppose $\{p_n\}\subset E$ and $E$ is a closed set.
If $p\not\in E$, there's a neighborhood of $p$, say $V_p$, such that $V_p\cap E=\emptyset$.
 
user19161
@ora I saw your edit. Again, limit point is not the same as limit.
 
@JacobBlack I know and I disagree how using only limits can do the proof.
The concept of limit point is important for proving the exclusion thing.
 
@OrangeHarvester Prove what?
 
user19161
@OrangeHarvester First, if you use limit there, the proof can work. Second, it is incorrect to use limit point there because there may be no such thing.
 
@FrankScience Here
 
9:36 AM
@OrangeHarvester It's not necessary to introduce the concept of limit points, yeah.
 
user19161
@ora In fact, if you replace limit point by limit there the proof becomes correct (if you understand it), but if you use limit point there the proof is wrong.
 
user19161
First, limit point may not exist.
 
user19161
Second, if a point is the limit, then eventually all terms of the sequence will lie in an open ball around it.
 
user19161
End of story, QED.
 
9:38 AM
$p_n\to p\implies\forall\epsilon>0,\exists N,d(p_N,p)<\epsilon$.
 
user19161
@FrankScience That is correct.
 
That's all.
 
yo
 
@OrangeHarvester Might I ask you a question about topological groups and projective limits?
 
user19161
Yo.
 
9:40 AM
if fermat didn't mention it, would other mathematicians have discovered fermats last theorem?
 
@user58512 wiles.
@awllower I know nothing about that.
 
Oh! My fault, due to bad memory...
Maybe Jacob knows something about the topic?
 
user19161
@awllower I only know 1+1=2, sorry.
 
@JacobBlack Yup. You are correct. But now do you see what kind of proof the OP might be looking for?
 
@JacobBlack What do you mean by general topology.
 
9:43 AM
Hm, Jacob is very humble and humerous!
 
user19161
@awllower I am only a banana.
 
user19161
@FrankScience It means point-set topology. I asked a question about what "general" means.
 
Haha.
I thought that bananas are good at such topics---banana limit...
 
user19161
I asked the question because I have seen 9000 general topology books, but none mention what "general" means.
 
general topology
 
9:45 AM
@JacobBlack Well, but the properties of metric spaces are discussed more in analysis, not topology.
 
For example, completeness is not a topological property.
 
user19161
@FrankScience Well, all branches of math are related, not too important what we call it.
 
Yes
 
user19161
Classifications are just for convenience to study a particular topic.
 
9:47 AM
I am wondering : if the completeness follows from compactness?
 
user19161
Completeness of R follows from the completeness axiom of R.
 
lol
 
user19161
A nonempty subset bounded above has a least upper bound.
 
So there is no relations between the two topics?
 
a compact space is complete
 
9:48 AM
the two notions.
Oh
 
user19161
Well, a metric space is compact if and only if it is complete and totally bounded.
 
but $\mathbb R$ is not compact
 
Oh!
Thanks very much!
 
It's locally compact.
 
9:51 AM
I am told that, if a series of homomorphisms has compact kernels, then the limit of isomorphisms is also an isomorphism, and so does the induced homomorphism on the quotient group. Can completeness along serve this?
 
oh is that an inverse limit like from category theory?
 
I referred to projective limits, but they are similar I suppose.
 
ive' got no idea how to even prove that
 
Oh
I see it in a book about CFT
There it is referred to Bourbaki, general topology...
I am trying to avoid reading that book though...
 
@JacobBlack I deleted the answer.
 
10:04 AM
@awllower completeness of what?
 
of the kernel?
 
I don;'t know how to prove that but I would be surprised if it worked with non-compact kernels
 
Ok
Thanks for the opinion!
 
compactness is a finitness assumption
completeness... isn't
 
Oh
This explains the reason of this compactness assumption!!
 
10:07 AM
in any case, go look at the bourbaki book
which is the best of the bourbaki books!
 
Really!
I have never heard of that!
Thanks for the suggestion!
I will grab the book and digest I think, haha
 
Bourbaki?!
 
Ja
 
Recalled me of something called New Math in U.S.A.
 
Oh
 
10:13 AM
see you later
 
m8er
L8er
 
:)
 
Sorry I was called afk @GarbageCollector Fine thanks, how are you?
@MarianoSuárez-Alvarez Have you seen this link on the starred comments?

3 @Khromonkey Possibly interesting: ams.org/notices/200410/fea-grothendieck-part2.pdf - 6h ago by MJD â–¼
 
10:29 AM
@skullpatrol very interesting indeed!
To have dinner now.
Later thus!
 
@OrangeHarvester Darn, they crossed out my suggested price.
 
@peoplepower :-)
 
11:08 AM
huhu
mh is my answer so stupid that it is worth to downvote is withouth a comment [combinatorics]math.stackexchange.com/questions/308986/…
 
hey guys I have to derrive f(x) = 43.3/x to f'(x)= , Iforgot how to do that, anyone knows? ; o
 
whats the deriviative of 1/x ?
 
1/(2(x)^0.5) ?
oh okay thanks xd
 
its -1/x^2
 
okay thanks :$
 
11:23 AM
@DominicMichaelis many people downvote without explanation. but I see that your problem has already been solved.
 
well i still think my solution is correct ...
 
anybody here know how to use cauchy's integral formula?
 
for what ?
 
to evaluate integrals. i can't figure out how i am supposed to use it.
first problem is $\oint z^{-1}\operatorname{Log}(z+e)dz$
where the integral goes counterclockwise around the unit circle
 
Why is it called $\sigma$-ring?
 
11:32 AM
@FrankScience probably comes from $\sigma$-algebra? I don't know why that has that name, though.
 
@AlexanderGruber I think the formula intends to make use of the residues, so you can calculate the residues , thus obtaining the integral.
 
@DominicMichaelis The question asks for the largest value, while your answer gives a lower bound. I guess this is why someone downvoted.
@DavidRobertJones Hello :)
 
today i was looking the questions and i found this: Show this equation has at least one root in (0, 1)
i'm very impressed with Babak solution
but i'm not sure if i understand why he suggested that function
that function allows you to evaluate f(0) = 0 and f(1) = (1/3)*a + (1/2)*b + c, which is equals to 0 since 2a + 3b + 6c = 0, and so you can apply the Lagrange's Mean Value Theorem and conclude it has to have a root in (0, 1) right?
 
I think it's only a trick.
 
11:40 AM
yes, but for what?
 
Yes your arguments are correct.
 
@awllower: that function will have one more root (x = 0) than the original function + in the (0, 1) interval the "original roots" will be kept, right? it's just a trick that allows to apply the theorem. am i correct?
 
What function will have one more root?
 
the function Babak suggested
the question started with ax^2 + b^x + c and he suggested a third grade polynomial
 
I think the trick is that the derivative of that function will be the original function.
 
11:48 AM
how is that related to the question? what is the relationship between the question and a function whose derivate is the same as the original function?
 
When the derivative is 0, you get a solution to the original one.
Since f(0)=f(1), there is a point in the interval (0,1), with derivative 0; this is what we want exactly!
 
user19161
@DominicMichaelis There are many downvotes on correct answers and upvotes on wrong answers here...
 
user19161
I am not talking about careless mistakes we all make.
 
user19161
I am talking about voters who have poor judgment because they have little mathematical ability.
 
11:57 AM
@JacobBlack Yeah. In fact, some thoroughly wrong answer, which is wrong ON PURPOSE, gets some upvotes.
 
user19161
In fact earlier today, three correct answers on the same question each got a downvote for no reason. No comments at all.
 
user19161
Going to eat...
 
I should admit that I have accepted a wrong answer.
 
ok so i got the first one.
 
But I did not accept it deliberately.
 
11:59 AM
now i am working on $\oint_{|z-2|=2}\frac{\operatorname{Arctan}(z)}{z^2-1}dz$
is $\operatorname{Arctan}$ analytic on $\mathbb{C}^*$?
 
@awllower: thanks
 
NP
 
@JacobBlack I am sorry for that limit point I stuck to. It was careless I guess.
 
12:34 PM
hi
 
user19161
1:08 PM
@user58512 Are you better at algebra or analysis?
 
i dont know
 
Then how about your interests?
 
I like them both
 
Do you have an idea about $\sum_{n=1}^{\infty } \frac{n! x^{n}}{3^{n}}$ ?
 
it konverges
iff x \leg 3/e
sry striclty lower 3/e
is my first idea
let me check that
 
1:14 PM
Answer : for x [-2,0) diverges
 
the n! dominates 3^n, so x must be negative so you have an alternating sum.
 
oh i read n^n
i need glassed :D
glasses :D
 
@JacobBlack, how do you choose an area?
 
I've tried the root test but i couldnt solve
 
user19161
@user58512 Meaning an area of research for yourself?
 
1:16 PM
yes
 
@vkeles as n! is about n^n /e^n
you find the minorant n^n/9^n x^n
 
n^n =? n! @Dominic
 
stirlings approximation
 
its called stirling formel
 
user19161
@user58512 Well, I am not qualified to speak on this, because I am not even a graduate student. But I would say it depends on a few factors: interest, ability, current research topics, supervisor.
 
1:17 PM
n! is about \sqrt{2\pi n } \cdot \frac{n^n}{e^n}
 
After replacing it with n^n what should i do?
 
you have about n^n /(e^n \cdot 3^n ) * x^n
as e is about 3 g you say this one is greater than n^n/9^n *x^n
so you get (nx/9)^n
 
where e comes from?
 
stirling
 
I didnt write e
 
1:20 PM
i now
i know
wait let me search something
mathbin is so slow nowadays
 
Can you ask this question? I reached the limit :)
 
i know that it only converges if x=0
because if x isn't 0 the sequence isn't a 0 sequence
 
@vkeles, I doubt the sum converges for x < -1 though.
 
:/
@u
@user58512 can you ask this?
 
oh good point. n! (x/3)^n does not tend to zero because n! dominates (x/3)^n
 
1:24 PM
or lets take the good old ratio test
not ratio
 
@vkeles, @DominicMichaelis just solved it
 
root test
but as i said, its not a sequence with limit 0
you want a rigorous proof ?
 
user19161
I'll give you proof! punches
 
it's funny we did have the stirling approximation in ana 2 but no other student still remebers at :D
(from my course)
 
Interesting article!!
 
1:29 PM
@DominicMichaelis I need a rigorous proof :/
 
@JacobBlack hi
 
oh just say that :)
 
user19161
@OrangeHarvester Wow, first time you said hi to me...
 
@JacobBlack :P
 
Yay and you have never said "hi" to me...
 
1:31 PM
@vkeles See this
 
user19161
I don't like to say hi in a chat room.
 
why?
 
user19161
Why? That's just me.
 
but you say bye???
 
And huzzah.
 
user19161
1:32 PM
You must understand that people can be very different from one another in small things like that.
 
user19161
We don't need to read too much into these things.
 
Oh but we do need to be consistent
 
My computer tells me "your battery is very low, either plug it up or shut it down" :P
 
I usually act just as a phantom without saying hi or bye.
 
user19161
Well, we can be inconsistent with what we do too, no problem.
 
user19161
1:34 PM
Today I feel like drinking tea, tomorrow coffee.
 
@FrankScience That's frank.
I feel like eating cake. (I am eating cake)
 
user19161
This week pepsi, next week coca cola.
 
Ok Ok bye :''(
consistently bipolar
 
user19161
@ora Where do you get your definition of limit point from?
 
@JacobBlack I was mistyping my limit point as limit when I meant the point which is a limit. Major brainfade.
I get my "correct" definition from Simmons by the way. A point x is a limit point of set A if every open sphere centered on the point x has atleast one point from A which is not x.
 
user19161
1:39 PM
@OrangeHarvester OK, same as Rudin then.
 
@JacobBlack Yes. Everyone has the same definition I suppose.
 
user19161
@OrangeHarvester More or less. In a metric space, this is equivalent to every open ball centred at x has infinitely many points of A.
 
@JacobBlack Yes.
 
I need to get to work soon
 
Work avoidance lemma: If you and some friends each avoided work on some day then the reason you still your jobs is that some guy quit.
 
1:54 PM
 
@JacobBlack It's true according to a $T_1$ space.
 
Can anyone ask this question for me? --> \sum_{n=1}^{\infty} \frac{(x-4)^{n^{2}}}{n!}
 
@peoplepower that or.... your manager also took an off day.
 
Why not ask yourself?
 
@awllower I reached the limit
 
1:58 PM
@vkeles konvergent for all x
its the same as exp((x-4)^2
ah not the same
 
@DominicMichaelis I need to see the solution so can you ask this?
 
@DominicMichaelis WLOG, consider $f(x)=0$ for $x\neq c_k$, $k=1,2,\dotsc$
 
I did not know there was a limit for asking question.
 
@vkeles The limits are there for a reason. Unless it is very urgent, you might want to post it in around 10 hours?
 
2:02 PM
@OrangeHarvester I have a midterm,its urgent for me :/
 
@vkeles Apply root test.
 
@OrangeHarvester I've tried but I couldnt solve
 
@vkeles writ it on mathbin
and post it t ous
 
@DominicMichaelis \sum_{n=1}^{\infty} \frac{(x-4)^{n^{2}}}{n!}
 
na waht you tried i mean
 
2:08 PM
It's unnecessary to post on mathbin.
We can use ChatTeX.
See the bulletin right.
$\LaTeX$ support for chat.
 
Question : $\sum_{n=1}^{\infty} \frac{(x-4)^{n^{2}}}{n!}$
 
@vkeles that is not a question
 
@TobiasKildetoft I mean for what values of x it converges
 
@vkeles well, what are your thoughts?
 
It's just a power series and apply Cauchy-Hadamard theorem.
 
2:10 PM
substitute v = x-4 first
$$\sum_{n=1}^{\infty} \frac{v^{n^{2}}}{n!}$$
 
@FrankScience We didnt see this theorem
 
It's just a by-product of root test, which indicates that the convergence radius is certainly determined by root test.
 
@vkeles You know the root test right? Write down the expression that needs to be evaluated.
 
I finally managed to answer a group theory question
 
@user58512 coool.
off to dinner guys
bye
 
2:19 PM
later
(bye)
;-)
 
@OrangeHarvester \lim_{n\rightarrow \infty } \frac{(x-4^{n}))}{n!^{\frac{1}{n}}}
Why dont you ask this question :/ ?
 
@user58512 Nice answer, too!
 
thanks
 
@vkeles for future reference, you might want to take a bit longer in writing the question on the main site. Your current questions all lack some motivation and mention of what you have tried yourself. (I mention this because a couple of them have received a fair number of upvotes, which might indicate that there were no problems with them)
 
@user58512 Are you going to accept my answer to your "conversation" question?
 
2:22 PM
yes
 
@user58512 ;-)
 
@user58512 you might want to add an "since" or similar after the "so" to make it clearer what is meant (just after the first displayed math)
 
is there a highlight for mathjax ? -.-
 
@DominicMichaelis what do you mean by highlight?
 
in winedt my backround is hightlightet from one $ to anoter $
 
2:34 PM
Not in mathjax itself, no. There might be a browser plugin that does that
 
has anyone an idea to proof the lust functions pointwise convergence not so technically ? math.stackexchange.com/questions/309073/…
oh i don't need the polynomial stuff at all :D
 
@DominicMichaelis The best thing (probably a sledgehammer to a nut) will be a fourier series representation. :P
 
@orange but it doesn't converge in the ana 1 + 2 definition
 
1+2 definition?
 
with fourier you have convergence only in L^2
not in sup |f(x)-f_n (x)|
 
2:46 PM
Yes.
I see.
 
is <g> a characteristic subgroup of G?
if $\theta$ is an automorphism of $G$, then $\theta \langle g \rangle = \langle \theta g \rangle$
 
@user58512 This might be relevant for finite groups.
 
@user58512 In general no. Consider $C_2\times C_2$ for instance.
 
oh yes I see
 
@user58512 that example is in fact of a group where $\left< g\right>$ is never characteristic apart from the trivial case where $g = 1$
in general, there is the concept of a characteristically simple group, meaning one where no non-trivial proper subgroups are characteristic
these are exactly of the form $G\times G\times \cdots\times G$ where $G$ is a simple group
ahh, I see that is what Orange linked to
 
2:59 PM
@Amwhy you think the wrong way
 

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