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12:03 AM
/me extends @PedroTamaroff 's answer and adds info for @masfenix - remember norms need not be round. Take the supremum norm for example it's "circle" is a "square", this just means you can find a (assuming you use the normal pythag norm :P) you can find a ball around and inside that square, and you can put squares around a ball.
 
@PedroTamaroff Any progress on the completeness of $U$?
 
@DanielFischer Sorry, no. Now I'm dining. =)
 
@PedroTamaroff Hope it tastes well. I'm going to bed now. If you don't figure it out, ask tomorrow.
 
@DanielFischer Oh, noes. You can leave a hint if you want! =D
 
@PedroTamaroff Okay, consider $f \colon X\times \mathbb{R} \to \mathbb{R};\quad f(x,t) = t\cdot d(x,U^c)$.
 
12:25 AM
@DanielFischer OK.
 
12:45 AM
@robjohn hey robjohn
 
@Ethan hey there. Happy Thanksgiving if that applies :-)
 
lol its just me and my mom
I will probably microwave up something for dinner
you?
 
1:01 AM
@Ethan We just got back from dinner. We went out.
 
oh
do you have kids?
 
@Ethan a son
 
how old?
 
@Ethan he is 21
 
in school?
 
1:04 AM
@Ethan He was in college. On a break for a while.
 
oh
yea senior year now I imagine
grad school then maybe
 
@robjohn could you take a quick look at this please?
 
@Ethan He is looking at that
 
simplification is relative, what is simple in some circumstances might not be simple in other scenarios
 
true dat^
 
1:12 AM
If your trying to get an intuitive understanding of the value of a fraction $1+\frac{1}{769}$, might be simpler then $\frac{770}{769}$
In that you can more clearly see its very close to $1$
Yet some might consider putting it in the second form simpler because the expression takes up less space
 
@Ethan So, Ethan, have you started studying math in a more orderly manner?
 
@PedroTamaroff Unfortunately no, I haven't studied any mathematics in the past 2 or 3 months.
I have been working on college applications and standardized testing
 
@Ethan Read Spivak!
Read Spivak!
 
I'm finishing up applying to universities in California right now
Some of the scholarships offered are funny lol
 
@Ethan How old are you now?
 
1:24 AM
Just turned eighteen in october
 
@Ethan You enter college at a younger age than we do.
 
I doubt it
I heard anon and robjohn were studying crazy stuff in high school
also dan brum, got his ged at like 15
 
this list will go on and on
terence tao entered PhD program before others went into university
and he's not the only one
what's the point of this comparison?
 
I don't know I didn't bring it up
speaking of tao I might go to UCLA
not sure
do you think if I went to a small LAS or something I would be at a disadvantage, like say one of the claremont colleges
 
harvey mudd is pretty famous
 
1:31 AM
yea, I know
Several LAS have something called a 3-2 program, where I can get a BA at a LAS and then finish off with a BS at a more well known research university
like caltech or columbia
Though I only sorta thought columbia was good for geometry, not sure there
 
if you are into number theory, columbia has a strong program there
 
I might not get a decent aid package, and if they don't offer housing.. in NY
 
caltech is good too although it's a bit small
 
generally speaking, if I am geared towards logic and perhaps pure mathematics
columbia might be a better choice you think? caltech seems more geared towards applied stuff
 
it's way too early to tell. At undergraduate level, you will have to ask the undergraduates there for their experience; in terms of faculty, both are excellent places
 
1:35 AM
probably pretty subjective, anyway I think I am getting sort of ahead of myself
yeah
 
1:47 AM
@Sanchez How's your topology?
 
@Pedro, my topology?
Why? The conversation is getting confusing.
 
@Sanchez Yeah, I have a problem.
 
Oh. Go ahead.
 
@Sanchez $(X,d)$ is a complete metric space, $U$ is open in $X$. Define $d'(x,y)=d(x,y)+|f(x)-f(y)|$ where $f(x)=d(x,U^c)^{-1}$. Then $(U,d')$ is complete, and $d,d'$ are topologically equivalent on $U$.
Daniel said
2 hours ago, by Daniel Fischer
@PedroTamaroff Okay, consider $f \colon X\times \mathbb{R} \to \mathbb{R};\quad f(x,t) = t\cdot d(x,U^c)$.
 
What if $x \in U^c$? How is $f$ defined?
 
1:53 AM
Oh, $d'$ is defined on $U$.
 
Oh.
 
Since $U^c$ is closed, $d(x,U^c)$ is never zero unless $x\in U^c$.
 
So what's your difficulty here?
checking it's metric, completeness, or topological equivalence?
 
@Sanchez I haven't checked it is a metric, actually. But that's not part of the question.
 
Alright, but your difficulty is?
 
1:56 AM
@Sanchez I don't know. Just trying to build up an idea.
 
Oh okay.
 
As I told Daniel, if $x_n$ is Cauchy in $d'$ it is Cauchy in $d$. But that is easy.
 
The other way should be easy too I suppose.
Because $f$ is continuous.
 
@Sanchez Right, it is continuous.
For $d(x,U^c)$ is, and $d(x,U^c)>0$ over $U$ (i.e., it is well defined there)
 
yes
em, should I say more - or do you want to think about why the continuity of $f$ already lead to the result (completeness of d')?
 
2:02 AM
@Sanchez Well, it is quite easy now, is it not? I know $X$ is complete, I know that if $x_n$ is $d'$-Cauchy it is $d$-Cauchy, so I can find $x\in X$ such that $x_n\to x$ in $d$. Since $f$ is continuous, $x_n\to x$ in $d$ implies $x_n\to x$ in $d'$. All I have to do is prove $x\in U$ now.
 
yep
 
But this should follow from $x_n$ being $d'$ Cauchy.
 
Yes
 
:12396334 Yep, so if I fix $n>N$ large and let $m$ range free $n,m>N$ I would violate Cauchyness.
 
That's it.
 
2:06 AM
Cannot one provide a direct proof?
 
The topology part also follows from continuity of $f$
 
We already know $|f(x_n)-f(x_m)|\to 0$.
 
Well you can rephrase your indirect proof to say that $|f(x_n)|$ is bounded
so $d(x_n, U^c)$ is bounded away from 0.
But there isn't really any difference.
 
@Sanchez Right, right.
I wonder what Daniel had in mind with $f(x,t)=t \cdot d(x,U^c)$.
 
er
no idea.
 
2:13 AM
Helo guys, working on sobolev spaces and there is a pretty big theorem (sobolev embedding theorem) that says if $s > t$ then $H_t \subseteq H_s$. But why is this. Intuitively, since $s$ is the larger number, by definition, all functions have upto $s$ weak derivatives. If it has $s$ weak derivatives, then it must also have $k$ derivatives..
sorry that should say $t > s$ so the space $H_t$ is embedded in $H_s$
 
You said $t > s$, so functions in $H_t$ has more derivatives, so it makes sense for it to lie in $H_s$.
 
but how? the way I see it, is that if it has $t$ derivatives and t is bigger than $s$ so it must also have $s$ derivatives no?
 
Yes. What you said is right, and so it makes sense to say that $H_t \subset H_s$.
Did you mess up with a sign somewhere?
 
well no, here it is here. Suppose $t > s$. Then $H_t \subseteq H_s$. But the way I am thinking about it, I am thinking $H_s \subseteq H_t$.
so another way I am thinking about this is that if $f \in H_t$ then it has upto $t$ derivatives
and t is larger than $s$
 
@badass to me, "evaluate" means to compute a value. "value" is also a nebulous term; it can mean a closed expression for an integral or sum, a rational number, or a decimal approximation.
 
2:27 AM
so wait, let me rephrase, each $f \in H_s$ has s derivatives but not neccessarily $t$ number of derivatives. you see what I mean @Sanchez?
 
@masfenix, and so $f$ also has $s$ derivatives. So you get that $f \in H_t$ naturally implies $f \in H_s$, so $H_t \subset H_s$, no?
 
ohhhh
wait i think im getting it
 
I think you are reversing a sign in your logic.
I don't think this is the point of Sobolev embedding anyway. (Can't pretend I know this stuff though)
 
no the signs are right and thats why its confusing me
the space with the larger index is a subset of the space of the smaller index.
 
I mean, what you've written down is right.
Well anyway, ignore what I said. What you wrote down is correct, even your explanation is correct
 
2:29 AM
oh you mean in my logic. Well yeah ofcourse since I am doing the opposite of what the theorem is saying and I am sure the theorem is correct :P
 
If $f$ can be differentiated 100 times, it can be differentiated once.
So $H_{100} \subset H_1$, since RHS is less constrained.
 
Yes! exactly
okay got it.
 
I don't think it's the point of Sobolev embedding though; anyway.
 
Well thats what I am trying to understand.
We covered sobolev spaces in my PDE and functional analysis class.
 
I don't know any PDE though, so I probably can't give a fair comment :)
 
3:11 AM
yo
what's up everyone?
 
ERMAGHERD.
Golden badge.
 
@PedroTamaroff Did you just get a gold badge?
 
@robjohn Yes.
 
@PedroTamaroff I see; a calculus badge, congratulations!
 
@robjohn ;)
 
3:21 AM
@PedroTamaroff 20 minutes ago... wow!
 
I also got the Epic badge.
=D
 
I need to earn more badges XD
 
@PedroTamaroff Ooh, that is really cool
@PedroTamaroff That's 50 days over 200?
 
@robjohn Yes.
 
@PedroTamaroff Ah, I just checked. I got three badges today: Necromancer, Nice Answer, and Fourier Series.
 
3:30 AM
@Pedro I don't get Rudin
 
ugh calculus four is driving me nuts
 
He says the root test has wider scope....and then says the root and ratio test are the same.
u wot m8
 
@DonLarynx They are not the same. The root test will work in more cases
 
It says that the root test works in more cases, but ratio test is easier to apply.
 
@DonLarynx What don't you get?
The root test is finer.
 
3:35 AM
@Pedro: He doesn't give one instance of when the root test is better. He just states the ratio test can keep up with the root test.
 
@DonLarynx IIRC he does. Keep reading.
 
Howdy Mr @Pedro
 
@Pedro: He doesn't state it within the next ten pages. By then, if it even exists that he states it, I would have lost all care for my problem. And so,

May you please give me an example where the root test is superior to the ratio test?
 
@TedShifrin Hey! How was dinner?
 
Damn, I have severe badge envy.:) Dinner was superb and I'm totally exhausted.
 
3:39 AM
@DonLarynx Consider the series $1+q+p+q^2+p^2+\cdots$ with $q=\frac 1 3$ and $p=\frac 1 2$.
 
whoops, i glossed over that section (due to hunger). my apologies
 
Hunger is never a valid math excuse :)
 
true I hate doing math problems when I need munchies
 
@TedShifrin Indeed.
 
CAlc iv is kicking my booty
 
3:41 AM
@TedShifrin I disagree...
 
@usukidoll You should reward youselves with food after a good math session.
 
I'm stuck I don't know where to begin for my calc iv
 
@usukidoll: What are you talking about?
 
it's a surface integral setting it up and evaluating it
 
It's only the beginning, @usukidoll
 
3:43 AM
@usukidoll: what is the specific problem you are stuck on?
 
hol don let me latex it
I have to evaluate the surface integral
Circular cylinder $G(x,y,z) = z$ over the cylindrical surface $y^2+z^2=4$ $z \ge 0$ $1$ $\le$x$ $\le$ $4$
ugh
 
@Gabriel: Paul Erdos.
 
man there should be a less than or equal to after the x
 
edit it, quick!
 
too late x(
$1 \le$ x $\le4$
THERE!
 
3:50 AM
Ok, @usukidoll, so how have you approached it?
 
any ideas T_T?
I only drew the cylinder and that's about it...I'm kind of lost at the next step, but I do know that I have to use cross product but before I do that I need to do partial derivatives
 
just type 1 \le x \le 4 between dollar signs.
You need to parametrize the surface.
 
$2y+2z$ that's gradient
 
No, no.
Hi @anon.
 
turkey sleepy
 
3:57 AM
@MarianoSuárez-Alvarez Hello?
 
sleeps on the math problem
 
Ok @usukidoll. Sleep well :)
 
wait wuh?
change with respect to *sleeps8
integrals double two sleeps
 
Confuzled.
 
zzzzzz too much food can't sleepz
doing math during the holidays is evil
 
4:11 AM
@PedroTamaroff yea homie
 
@AlexanderGruber Dayum.
 
4:35 AM
the gold
i'm about to get my 10th gold badge, think I might get em made into some gold teeth
 
@AlexanderGruber I got a silver and a gold today.
@AlexanderGruber I don't even?
 
Why am I not getting answered for math.stackexchange.com/questions/584587/… ?
 
@Sush People usually like that you show some effort, and don't like imperative, as in "prove this, solve that"
At least, you can say what confuses you, where you're stuck, what you have tried, &c.
 
I like to post sassy comments on questions like that
 
@PedroTamaroff, I showed the effort yesterday, and did not get any response at all. So I deleted my effort. You can see it as edit history.
 
4:47 AM
"solve this"? pshhhh you can't make me :P
edited 30 mins ago mmm right
 
@Sush Why did you delete that? It was nice. Keep it.
 
@PedroTamaroff, thank you and just keeping it again.
 
Anyone please answer me!! I am wasting my time till then on youtube:(
 
not all of us know stahpppp T__T
 
5:00 AM
@usukidoll, what do you mean by "stahpppp T__T"?
 
Hi guys, is there any intuitive meaning behind a compact set? If possible, I would like the intuition behind both equivalent notions: 1) X is compact if every open cover has a finite subcover. 2) X is compact if every convergent sequence in X has a convergent sub sequence
 
5:19 AM
They're not actually equivalent. :)
(Even if you stated 2 correctly)
 
anyone know some calculus iv? surface integral
 
@masfenix At any rate people have asked at both math.stackexchange and mathoverflow for intuition behind compactness you can probably find these threads by searching.
 
@KarlKronenfeld I will do a search thanks. But how are they not equivalent
@KarlKronenfeld My number 2 needs a slight modification. Its X is compact if every sequence in X contains a convergent subsequence
 
@masfenix I knew you meant that.
@Sush By wasting time on youtube, even you are not working on your own problem. Why should you expect others to work on it?
 
5:36 AM
@KarlKronenfeld, Please answer my problem, please! I have been trying for it from yesterday!
 
@Sush You clearly made an error in your work (by getting a result you believe is false), you should start off by looking for that error.
 
@KarlKronenfeld, trying now and thnx.
 
5:52 AM
@AlexanderGruber Do you still have that question about representing direct products you asked about in chat yesterday?
 
6:03 AM
@KarlKronenfeld thanks Karl. Did not know they were not equivalent in a non metric space. Although I havn't taken topology so thats why I said it above.
 
6:59 AM
 
 
1 hour later…
8:03 AM
 
8:30 AM
@KarlKronenfeld yes i do
still haven't figured out what that's supposed to mean
just a definition thing really
 
$(1+\sqrt{3})mi.$ Answer
 
@AlexanderGruber I think doing the example will give a pretty good indication of what it means.
So let's consider an arbitrary direct product $X\times Y$ in any category with products.
 
By the universal property, there is a bijection between the set of arrows $A\to X\times Y$ and the set of pairs of arrows $A\to X$, $A\to Y$ for fixed $A$.
In symbols there is $\varphi_A:\text{hom}(A,X\times Y)\cong F(A)$, where $F$ is a functor we will define next.
So far so good?
 
@KarlKronenfeld yeah.
 
8:42 AM
@AlexanderGruber Is it clear how $F:\mathcal C\to \mathbf{Sets}$ should behave on objects?
 
not really
 
It takes $A$ to the set of pairs of arrows: $F(A)=\text{hom}(A,X)\times\text{hom}(A,Y)$.
 
so it's a hom functor from the product category?
 
@AlexanderGruber Hm, let me think a second (I am thinking of it as an arrow in a category of slice categories but you may have a better interpretation)
@AlexanderGruber It's a composite with a hom-functor, yes.
You map $A\mapsto (A,A)\mapsto\hom((A,A),(X,Y))$.
 
right, i see
 
8:47 AM
@AlexanderGruber Then the rest is showing/noting that $\varphi$ is a natural transformation.
 
so this is how you interpret "products are representable?"
 
i kind of see what we're doing here but i have no idea how the connection is made here linguistically
 
@AlexanderGruber Could you rephrase that?
 
i mean, "___ is representable" implies "___" should be a functor, but products aren't a functor, they're an object (or an object with some morphisms depending on which of my books i'm reading)
so should he instead be saying "the taking of products is representable"
or something like that?
 
8:52 AM
It's really the universal property itself that constructs the functor $F$ I gave above (if you know about limits, you will see the role $A\to (A,A)$ plays in the product's definition).
 
maybe i'm just not seeing things right
 
All of these things are very tightly connected.
 
yeah, i'm understanding the other exercises a lot now. i'm just confused about the language he's using.
 
@AlexanderGruber Could you give a quote, maybe.
 
i gotta start a problem by writing a definition and working up from there, but what he's written isn't definable from the definitions i've been given, in any of the books we're using
it's literally "Show that products are representible"
 
8:55 AM
ah, that's certainly annoying.
@AlexanderGruber Do you know about universal objects in the formal sense? (Not the arrow theoretic universal property)
 
@KarlKronenfeld i thought the arrow theoretic one was the formal sense, so i guess not ;)
 
@AlexanderGruber It's equivalent but does not use arrows.
I am using Mac Lane's terminology: he differentiates universal arrows and universal objects
I just wanted to point out that in going from u. arrow to u. object, you construct $F$. Then, you represent $F$ with a hom-functor.
 
@KarlKronenfeld, Got the answer for math.stackexchange.com/questions/584587/…. Thanks for letting my mind too work.
 
@KarlKronenfeld riiiight... i see, that is a good way to think of it
it's a shame i'm not more comfortable with some of the weird constructions in topology and whatnot, i think i'd have a better handle on some of this stuff if i knew more examples
i wonder if there's a big list of categories having to do with finite groups somewhere i could look at in the meantime
 
@AlexanderGruber I do not know, but I am reminded of Mac Lane referring to one of his works where he proves some of the basic facts of group theory from a category-theoretic stand point. Maybe that would be useful; now it's a matter of remembering where I read that. :)
 
9:04 AM
@KarlKronenfeld the isomorphism theorems are all category theory, i've heard.
(which would make sense considering they seem to be true for just about everything)
 
@AlexanderGruber mhm
@AlexanderGruber Meh, the reference was just to Mac Lane-Birkhoff Algebra.
 
@KarlKronenfeld so are you a category theorist of some flavor?
 
@AlexanderGruber No, though I do love thinking about category theory. I am actually a self-studier with the goal of eventually working in algebraic geometry; however, I am in no rush.
 
@KarlKronenfeld what is it you like about algebraic geometry?
 
@AlexanderGruber It's cool looking and I like both algebra and geometry. :) To sound less simplistic: it is very novel to me to even think of connecting quotients of polynomial rings with geometric figures and then generalizing.
 
9:20 AM
@KarlKronenfeld fair enough :)
my next algebra class goes into commutative algebra, which from what i understand is comin' up on A.G.
 
@AlexanderGruber Or algebraic number theory. For instance, I am reading Pete L. Clark's notes just to see some of it from that perspective.
 
i'm a fan of his expositions
i read his analysis notes, and getting me anywhere near analysis willingly is a monumental achievement
 
Can I ask a really quick question (yes or no answer)?
 
askaway :)
 
thanks =D
if $lim_{x \rightarrow a} f(x) = L$, then prove that $lim_{x\rightarrow a}[f(x)-L] = 0, is it ok to do the proof $lim_{x\rightarrow}f(x) - \lim _{x\rightarrow} L = L - L = 0$?
$lim_{x\rightarrow}f(x) - \lim _{x\rightarrow} L = L - L = 0$
or is the proof asking for more than that?
$$\lim _{x\rightarrow a}$$
that's what I meant, sorry for the poor formatting
 
9:33 AM
Let $x$ and $n$ be positive integers such that $1+x+x^2+\dots+x^{n-1}$ is a prime number. Then show that $n$ is a prime number. What is such prime called?
 
contrapositive, geometric sum formula
to the edited question ("what is such a prime called?"): every prime is of this form (just pick n=p, x=1)
 
so, since nobody jumped on me, I'm assuming it's fine XD
I just think it's weird that the proof is that simple
 
contrapositive ---- negative
 
Willyou people use some lighter word? or some numbers? i can't understand these.
 
look them up
the only fancy word was "contrapositive"
 
9:40 AM
@anon, I really do not get the proof , please help.
 
do you know the geometric sum formula?
 
@anon, no
 
then go learn it
 
@anon, it is $1+x+x^2+\dots+x^{n-1}=(1-x^n)/1-x$, right? Now what to do?
 
you need parantheses around the (1-x)
now, x^(ab) is a power of x^a. indeed, x^(ab)=(x^a)^b
so (x^(ab)-1)/(x^a-1) is an integer
it's just 1+x^b+(x^b)^2+...+(x^b)^(a-1), by the geo sum formula
thus, (x^(ab)-1)/(x-1) is divisible by (x^a-1)/(x-1)
sorry, I meant (x^(ab)-1)/(x^a-1) is 1+x^a+(x^a)^2+...+(x^a)^(b-1)
 
9:49 AM
@anon Hey
 
yo
 
@anon We haven't chatted in a while
 
yeah
I'm normally not up this late
but I'm on turkey break
 
@anon I just learned today of a cool proof that the category of modules admits enough injectives
using that the homological dimension of $\Bbb{Z}$ is 1.
 
hmm
 
9:50 AM
yea it was very slick
 
ha, I don't know any homology
 
@anon, how is x^(ab) is a power of x^a. indeed, x^(ab)=(x^a)^b?
 
homological algebra you mean @anon
 
@Sush do you not know that x^(ab)=(x^a)^b?
 
@anon I am a little unsure of my second solution here
 
9:52 AM
don't know any alg geo either
 
Oh sorry I misinterpreted (x^a)^b as x^a^b.
 
@Benja I am useless to you these days :P
 
@anon soz
@anon There are many areas of math that I don't know that you do
 
@anon
 
9:54 AM
yes?
my jealous soul is not in need of healing :P
 
@anon What are you jealous of?
 
perhaps I misinterpreted the meaning of your isolated ping
 
what are you jealous of?
there's nothing to be really
and jealously causes more suffering
 
my sarcasm is wasted
 
This guy is awesome
@anon Theoretical physicist turned monk: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ajahn_Brahm
 
9:57 AM
interdesting
reminds me of larry from numb3rs
though not in physical appearance
 
@anon I always listen to his talks when down
@anon I find buddhism very relevant, it's more a philosophy of life than religion
 
I google psychology when I'm down...
 
@anon wanna skype
 
eh, okay
 
what's your skype
tell me here and then you can erase it
 

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