The Bridge

Arda Xi

22:10

:106809 Which is command-line Wireshark/Ethereal right?

tzenes

tshark is the commandline for wireshark, tethereal is the command line for ethereal, though they're practically the same thing

Arda Xi

Ethereal was renamed to Wireshark due to trademark issues

so it's exactly the same thing

tzenes

yeah

Grace Note

22:44

Evenin' all~

tzenes

hey grace

Grace Note

Hey, @tzenes

tzenes

how's life?

Grace Note

Not bad. Felt good to review MM. Considering editing the other post to include the proper names of all of the weapons

You're crazy for picking Fire Man first for an easy run. He's not Elec or Ice in which he does 12 points of damage, but his aggression is pretty painful to a new player, I would expect.

Mana

oh man

Darwinia's tutorial isn't all that great

tzenes

22:50

its more about who I don't want to face without a weapon than who I do

I don't mind facing fire

Mana

I always went with Elec first

Grace Note

While I enjoy a challenge, doing Elec first is generally a nutsy idea in the original

tzenes

I just really hate bomb

Mana

unless you're speedrunning

Grace Note

Sure, he takes more damage than the rest, but 12 points of damage! You have 28 units of health!

tzenes

22:51

he was just easier for me to predict

I think that's why he does so much damage

Grace Note

Fire Man is easy to predict, but requires a lot of finesse

I can easily see starting with Fire Man, it's a very clean fight

tzenes

as long as I avoid that first wave, its just a rhythm game

Grace Note

Yep

tzenes

I had a friend who used to start bomb and it just drove me nuts

so I just learned fire really well

Grace Note

Ahha

My first time was on Guts.

I don't think I ever really stuck to anything from that point onwards

Sathya

23:02

greets

Grace Note

Hey, @Sathya

Arda Xi

Greetings.

Sathya

Ah @Grace and @Arda

how goes gaming.se

Grace Note

Not too bad

Sathya

almost typed gaming.sex

oops too late :P

Arda Xi

23:04

We already closed one of his questions, and now he asks one again, using CW as an excuse...

-1

Q: New/recent browser based games

I have a problem. The only online browser games I know and play are getting pretty old. I stopped kingsofchaos a while ago. Stopped with Ogame too. Playing Ikariam, but nothing much else. It's really hard to find very new and recent browser-based games. Search engines turn up the same result ev...

This is why I dislike CW, it's hardly ever used like it should be, only to excuse otherwise closed questions

there's no question in it either

Grace Note

I ranted about that on Meta Stack Overflow, too

C. Ross

so close and delete

Sathya

aren't browser games out of scope ?

C. Ross

:106953 Can you link to that? I want to upvote it

Grace Note

I don't actually know, Sathya. I remember there was early discussion

Arda Xi

23:05

:106955 no reason why they should be

browser game is still a game

Grace Note

Is a comment here, @CRoss meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/61516/…

C. Ross

if we allow iPhone games we should allow browser games

Grace Note

Ooh, and then there's a comment at meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/61519/…, where I liken my vision of Stack Exchange to a section of Nintendo Power

Arda Xi

we had a discussion on our meta as well

9

Q: What is the Use Case for Community Wiki

We tried to discuss this question once before, but it devolved into a discussion of what questions should be allowed and how people were using CW; so I'd like to refocus on this topic once again. You can find the previous discussion here: community wiki needs to be explained better I understand...

discussion community-wiki

Grace Note

I considered linking my answer to that over on Meta SO

Sathya

23:07

:106958 could've sworn there was a discussion. shrugs oh well

Grace Note

That's how people used to do Expert Q&A: by mail, send questions, get answers.

Arda Xi

I think that questions shouldn't be CW ever, answers should

Grace Note

I mostly concur, @Arda

C. Ross

I think questions should, when we want to make them easily editable

not when we want to avoid downvotes

Arda Xi

why would we want to edit a question other than corrections?

which high-repped users already take care of

Grace Note

23:10

In a Gaming site, I can't think of any

Which is why I think for our site specifically, CW is quite worthless on questions

tzenes

I think forcing people to have CW answers is a useful flag in a question, as it discourages too many answers in favor of collaboration. But there is no reason that means the question has to be CW

Arda Xi

:106978 then again, we should almost always disregard the CW status of a question when deciding whether to close it

Grace Note

Almost always? Always.

C. Ross

Fair enough, I can't think of a use-case here

tzenes

I might be more bias to closing a CW than a normal question

Arda Xi

23:12

In the words of Joel Coehoorn: "This is only partly true. If you ask a subjective question, then yes: it should be community wiki. But it's important to clarify that community wiki does not make subjective questions okay. You should not ask most of your subjective questions in the first place."

Grace Note

Closing is based on if the question doesn't belong. CW is irrelevant to that. The "borderline" questions that are CW are ones that are on the "on-topic" side of the border

C. Ross

I wonder how many times I'm going to have to fight this on how many sites ...

tzenes

Well if a user has so little faith in there question being on topic that they CW it, then my first impulse is "If even you don't think its appropriate then let's just close it"

this might be question profiling

Arda Xi

Well, I think we're successful, I just tried to Google the answer to a question on GSE and the first result was that question.

Grace Note

GSE?

Arda Xi

23:20

Gaming Stack Exchange :)

Sathya

@grace gaming.se

Grace Note

Ah

C. Ross

:106995 The SE engine does a really good job of SEO

Arda Xi

:107001 I know, but for this to happen it needs a lot of links :)

then again, there are quite a lot of sites on the same engine linking to it I guess

Grace Note

Wait, was the question "How can I tell if a corpse is safe to eat"?

Arda Xi

23:27

well, no, but that is awesome

I love the way that every non-GSE result is still about nethack

aside from the article about eating roadkill... yet another reason I have lost faith in humanity.

why was this re-opened?

4

Q: Suggest a (steampunk) deepsea game

Not Bioshock please. I'm looking for a game with a true deepsea setting including traveling between settlements. I'll accept any deepsea game with underwater civilisations that the player can interact with. The ideal would be an underwater version of Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Magick Obscura ...

pc game-rec retro-gaming water

Grace Note

Because people think the quantity of potential answers is actually a useful metric for keeping a question open

Arda Xi

Is there anyone except the asker desperately looking for an underwater version of Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Magick Obscura (or Fallout) with floating vehicles, deepsea creatures, and non-Tolkienesque humanoids?

Grace Note

To be honest, I can't think of many people who wanted to know the differences between versions of the PS3 due to pre-ordering a PS3 game prior to getting the platform

antony.trupe

does it matter if only the asker would benefit?

Arda Xi

:107015 Well, yeah

the SE engine is based on ask once, read many

to have answered questions people have before they have to ask them

Grace Note

23:32

The site as a whole serves the greater internet community. This does include answering the occasional personal question that requires expertise

tzenes

:107011 subjective vote to close

Grace Note

Key point though, is that it still needs to pass all of the other necessities.

Arda Xi

:107021 My point is that it doesn't matter whether a question is broad or narrow, game-rec does not suit the engine

:107019 and game-rec doesn't really require expertise per sé

just someone in the right place at the right time

Grace Note

@Arda My point is that if that is your point, then don't use the narrowness as a reason

tzenes

:107022 God damn people an their one strat per answer

Arda Xi

23:35

:107027 but narrowness is the reason why the other half should be closed

then again, SO has quite a lot of "why doesn't this code work" which hardly anyone will look for later

Grace Note

No, but what comes out of those questions? People getting their problems solved

We are a Q&A site, after all

tzenes

@arda are you saying close all game-rec? or just the ones that are between certain small scope?

Arda Xi

:107033 basically, unless there's a really good reason a question should stay open

Grace Note

It would be callous of us to turn down a valid problem inquiry just because only that one individual currently has that inquiry

Arda Xi

Yeah, but we're a Q&A site, not a Dial-A-Game line

Grace Note

23:38

That's irrelevant to the scope of whom a question helps

tzenes

I agree that game-recs are bad, but I don't think the size of the help they provide is the reason they're bad

Arda Xi

But, as @tzenes has said before, if a site is filled with game-rec questions that doesn't attract experts to the site

Grace Note

@Arda I'm going to take a moment to refresh your memory that I'm anti game rec as well

Arda Xi

I'm just trying to find out where our line is. It seems that we draw the line somewhere around the broadness of the question.

Grace Note

But if we limit it so that they have to be in a tiny window where if it's too broad it gets nothing, and if it's too narrow it gets nothing, then that's when we seriously may as well not bother at all

tzenes

23:43

I think that all game-recs are harmful to the site because they are essentially opinions and opinions are like assholes, everyone has one

Arda Xi

:107051 that, or we just remove that window entirely and be done with it

Grace Note

That's... entirely what I was meaning, @Arda

tzenes

I think we all have the same goal here

we just have different reasons for it

Arda Xi

then why do we still accept game-rec questions? :)

Grace Note

Because we're only 3 users?

tzenes

23:44

because we 3 are not the community

Grace Note

I have more meta posts opposing Game Recs than some users have meta posts at all

Arda Xi

I don't think anyone has ever taken this stance on our Meta, it's always been: if it's specific enough it's fine

correct me if I'm wrong though

tzenes

that's not true

I have taken that stance many times

Grace Note

I once even explicitly stated that our engine is horrible at handling game recs and repositories

tzenes

my goal has always been to destroy game-rec

I have compromised in the belief that it'll help destroy game-rec

I will take what I can get, but I make sure to use my close votes every day on every game-rec I can find

Grace Note

23:46

Because it seriously is. We are poorly suited, even moreso when we have to try and house repositories in the same storage that normal questions are in

Arda Xi

But this one for example, seems like a perfect example since it has 22 answers

31

Q: Games that feature procedural generation of content?

I'm looking for games that include procedurally generated content as a major feature; like all levels are generated, enemies, weapons, etc. One per answer please, and pics if you got em! Games that have been mentioned already: Diablo Dwarf Fortress Elder Scrolls II: Daggerfall, the Eufloria...

game-rec procedural-content

tzenes

Have you seen my comments on that question?

Grace Note

Did you read tzenes and my comments on it, @Arda?

Arda Xi

I did, yes

tzenes

yeah Grace's were great too

she's an allstar

Grace Note

23:47

48

Q: What games offer a good co-op multiplayer experience?

I am not really a big fan of playing anything that is not with at least one other human being. For this reason most of the games I've ever really loved are FPS that you can play online with/against others. One thing that has always surprised me is how few games actually let you play their "story...

game-rec multiplayer co-op console-agnostic

Arda Xi

in this case it's more @JeffAtwood who's harmful to our site :O

Grace Note

This is a larger example of why the questions are poor quality

Arda Xi

41 answers :O

Grace Note

I can give more than 82 answers by myself!

tzenes

yeah

Arda Xi

23:49

I do agree with Ivo on this in that if we must allow these questions they should have no more than 1 CW answer

tzenes

I don't think that's a good idea

Arda Xi

Why?

Grace Note

The people who want lists want their rating system

Their rating system is why it never works.

Arda Xi

We can moderate the site if needed, we just need to make our intentions clear

tzenes

@Arda I think we have been

Grace Note

23:52

We've had so many meta discussions on the subject

Arda Xi

That's part of the problem I think, consensus is rather scattered over meta

Grace Note

We don't have a consensus

tzenes

I think people like their game-rec

1

A: Voting on the future of list of X questions

Edit: If you disagree please post a comment to promote discussion. I'd like to take this opportunity to discuss the subject of [game-rec] questions. I realize there are a number of topics on this issue with diverse responses (one even linked by Ivo here) and that I've responded in some, but I b...

Grace Note

The pro-rec dislike all of the anti-rec's conclusions, but never give us anything solid to create a consensus with

tzenes

look how many people down voted my answer

I wish Oak was here

he tends to be an advocate of game-rec

Arda Xi

23:54

people like gamerec on our site because they can abuse the voting system as a poll

taking that away by enforcing single answers might help to avoid that

Grace Note

Even though I suggested that, I don't have large faith in it being useful

Arda Xi

no one has tried to actually execute it so far, afaik

Grace Note

Actually, some of us have been plotting it behind the scenes

We just haven't decided on our candidate, yet

Arda Xi

Candidate? Who's going to implement it?

Grace Note

We're not doing a full-scale. More of a test run

Arda Xi

23:58

In that case, I'd say this one, it's one of the most popular game-recs

31

Q: Games that feature procedural generation of content?

I'm looking for games that include procedurally generated content as a major feature; like all levels are generated, enemies, weapons, etc. One per answer please, and pics if you got em! Games that have been mentioned already: Diablo Dwarf Fortress Elder Scrolls II: Daggerfall, the Eufloria...

game-rec procedural-content

Grace Note

Pick a "good" repository, swap it over to a single answer form, and see how it goes

My "don't have large faith in it being useful" is that the primary effect is to make a good single answer, but I don't think we have a strong enough backing to make a real good answer.

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