The Bridge

Brian Colvin

18:03

Well @StrixVaria and @FAE can come deal with it as they are the big SE LoLers, My opinion is that I would like to be able to come here and find out the metagame for LoL rather than learn it on my own. And questions involving LoL metagame shouldn't need to explain it first as to cater to people who don't know the metagame because the question will be less valuable to them if they don't know the meta even if it is explained in the question.

Ender

but asking a question about the current metagame is too localized so that can never really happen

the answer is subject to become obsolete, often

Brian Colvin

When was the last time LoL metagame changed?

Ender

I can't say for sure. I was deployed when it happened.

badp

In all honesty I do see an issue in people asking "How do the pros counter X" rather than "How to counter X"

Does it solve a practical problem to know what this group of people you're not part of does to solve a practical problem?

Perhaps you just want to know how to solve the practical problem yourself.

So you should be asking that.

Lazers

0

Q: Is Binary Domain playable without a mic?

Binary Domain has interested me for a while and is currently on sale at Steam. Thing is, I've played the demo and came across a few occurences of dialog where I was supposed to answer to my teammates through a mic. Long story short, I don't have one, and the way my PC is set in my room makes it ...

David B

18:06

Metagame: where my brother uses Ike and his overhand swing, then I learn how to air-dodge, then he switches to Metaknight (against whom air-dodging is worthless).

Ender

I know that I'm really bad at recognizing the difference between complicated multi-perspective based answers and answers\questions that are too objective. I tend stay away from questions like these for that reason. I think my skarner question two nights (one night?) ago was my first.

David B

(too objective?)

Ender

@DavidB Good example.

badp

@DavidB but that's not so much "hat the pros do," it's just "what works best according to what we now know"

Brian Colvin

but is that strategy or metagame? ;)

badp

18:08

I realize there's some difference as in you're assuming you're playing vs somebody who knows what he's doing rather than a first minute button masher

StrixVaria

"How do I counter X?" is a fine question. If the problem is bad answers, then deal with the answers. Downvote answers that don't give enough detail.

badp

"How do I counter X?" is pretty much part of the whole point of this website

StrixVaria

Exactly.

If people have an issue with low quality answers, then downvote the low quality answers.

user30

someone ping wip later and let him know sfm is in public beta, since I won't be around and can't ping him anymore

StrixVaria

Asking how to deal with game situations is exactly why we exist.

David B

18:10

@BrianColvin there can be good metagame questions and good strategy questions imo. and if the metagame changes over time, then the answers will get updated or new answers will get upvoted

StrixVaria

Metagame questions are on topic; strategy questions are on topic.

Not sure where there's any room to argue those points.

Brian Colvin

@StrixVaria So me asking "What is League of Legends metagame?" is on topic?

StrixVaria

@BrianColvin The topic space is valid, but the question itself is awful and too broad.

David B

as a terminology question, that's fine :)

"I play LoL, help me understand metagame"

what are the important facets of the current LoL metagame? way too broad

and localized at the same time

StrixVaria

Just because broad questions exist in a topic space doesn't make that entire topic space off topic, though.

@DavidB No.

It's not too localized.

David B

18:15

No? ok

StrixVaria

I don't know where all the meta posts about too localized are, because I don't hang around Meta.SO all that often.

But it's really, really rare that a question should actually be closed as too localized.

David B

that's fine, I should read up on my own

StrixVaria

Asking about the current metagame is completely legitimate.

I think there was one by Joel that was really important.

Ender

@StrixVaria how does a question about the current metagame receive an answer that isnt localized due to a timeframe?

James

@Ender Cause the time frame of meta games lasts until the game changes which are not predictable

Sterno

18:25

I've been commenting in the meta post, but I don't understand the fundamental problem here

Brian Colvin

@Sterno the problem arises with asking questions relating to metagame that may change

StrixVaria

Answers to questions can change.

Brian Colvin

chess rules/gameplay don't change

Sterno

If we were talking about chess on the B&CG site, would discussion of chess's metagame be off-topic?

StrixVaria

Any game can get patched.

James

18:26

When games change, we just update the questions or remove the ones that are out dated (Look at minecraft for example)

StrixVaria

If we were worried about that, every question would be too localized.

James

Just remove the word 'Current' if it bugs you I guess?

Ender

@James What does being predictable have to do with it? This is similar I think from questions involving beta gameplay. They are closes as being too localized due to timeframe.

Sterno

Yeah, I kind of feel like if the problem is that LoL changes too often, almost all questions would need to be closed for the same reason

StrixVaria

@Ender Because it's not a ridiculously narrow scope in time. Metagame shifts are crazy slow, and the questions are completely answerable. There's no good reason to close them.

Ender

18:26

similiar I think with*

StrixVaria

Even old metagame questions are still useful after the metagame has shifted away.

Ender

@StrixVaria but games are sometimes in beta phase for a year or more. Thats quite a long time.

Sterno

And couldn't a good answer be worded in such a way that it communicates what strategy elements you need, rather than "use champion x?"

StrixVaria

@Ender I didn't say anything about beta, and I have no clue what point you're trying to make with that.

James

@Ender A game unreleased to the general public vs a game that just evolves over time. We stay away from the first and go with the second.

Brian Colvin

18:27

Ok so can an expert edit this gaming.stackexchange.com/questions/77282/… so we can reopen it heh I'm interested in the answer

Ender

@James negative, open beta is frequent.

StrixVaria

Even metagame questions about prior states of the metagame that don't exist any more are still useful if the answers are good, because you can see how the game evolved and it gives insight onto the current state of the metagame.

James

@Ender And, when Diablo 3 hit open beta we let the questions flow man.. I am still not sure what point you are making

Sterno

I mean, heck, parts of my Diablo 3 Barbarian build for Inferno answer have become outdated as the game has been patched. But most of it still applies, for now. Maybe it will be wholly invalid in 6 months if they keep changing Inferno. But it's still useful. And can be fixed in the future as needed.

Ender

@StrixVaria I This is similar I think with questions involving beta gameplay. They are closes as being too localized due to timeframe.

badp

18:28

@ThomasMcDonald uh, it's been in public beta for more than a week now (@Wipqozn)

fbueckert

@badp Sidenote: What's sfm?

Ender

@James i remember seeing beta questions being closed for that reason, perhaps my memory is flawed or the situation was somewhat different

Sterno

someone who knows how should probably bookmark this chat and add it to the meta topic

StrixVaria

@Ender They're not categorically closed. Games should be assessed individually to determine whether that specific game is worth having beta questions or not.

badp

@fbueckert Source FilmMaker

Ender

18:29

@StrixVaria thats good to know.

:)

StrixVaria

Can we just leave good, interesting, answerable questions open please, and try not to make blanket ban rules.

10

James

@Ender In either case Remove the word Current, He just is asking about the metagame and that is acceptable. If it changes we roll with it.

StrixVaria

@BrianColvin Voted to reopen. The question isn't amazing, but it's definitely not close-worthy.

Ender

@StrixVaria but I'm bored, and I always make blanket ban rules when I'm bored. :(

badp

@fbueckert sourcefilmmaker.com/post.php?id=7948&p=1 is the original announcement

Brian Colvin

18:30

I'm not sure how to get the conversation from the chat, it started around 422pm according to chat times

fbueckert

@BrianColvin See the downarrow to the left of the text when you hover over it? Press that.

Ender

I really need to sit up in here more often.

UQAllulloo

Wikipedia now has citation tooltips.

Brian Colvin

Can't go across days eh?

fbueckert

@BrianColvin Transcript

chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/35

user2334

18:34

Needs delete votes

fbueckert

@MarkTrapp Already flagged.

user2334

mercy buckets

Sterno

Can only delete closed questions. :(

Ender

?

why?

o. wrong link

user2334

@Sterno Clearly you need to get 9700 rep in the next 10 minutes or I don't even know what you're doing here!

Brian Colvin

18:37

@fbueckert think I got it and editted meta question

Sterno

@MarkTrapp Start posting bounties!

Man, the more LoL questions I read, the more I never want to play that game. Too big a learning curve.

user2334

can only post 1,500 worth at a time, and can't award them for at least two days :(

badp

@MarkTrapp no it doesn't

StrixVaria

1

Q: Is playing an AD carry top viable?

Recently, Xenics Storm tried double AD carries, one of them going top. How can one effectively play an AD carry top versus a normal top lane champion? Is this strategy viable? How does it change your team dynamics for team fights, early ganking, and farming?

league-of-legends

Needs 1 more reopen vote please.

user2334

@badp You had me for a split second there you trickster you: thinking you declined the flags and such

fbueckert

18:41

@StrixVaria Since this now been edited, I'll happily vote to re-open it.

The original question was horrible.

StrixVaria

@fbueckert It was fine before.

fbueckert

@StrixVaria Originally? Not really.

StrixVaria

Oh...the original revision was really, really bad.

I didn't see that.

fbueckert

@StrixVaria Hence why I voted to close it. :P

StrixVaria

Ok now I understand.

It's a really interesting question now that it's been translated to our site, though.

fbueckert

18:43

@StrixVaria That, I agree with.

@BrianColvin thumbs up

user2334

Double Fine collection on the flash deal; 75% off Costume Quest, Psychonauts, and Stacking

user2334

Did the PC not get the Costume Quest expansion, or is it included in the game?

Brian Colvin

@fbueckert hooray, though the capitalist in me sees that after all that work I only made a meager 2 rep points hah :)

fbueckert

@BrianColvin Rep is a side bonus to improving the site.

And the Internet as a whole.

Take pride in the fact that, today, you made the Internet better.

Brian Colvin

hah :)

Sterno

18:49

@BrianColvin Just think, when you hit 2k rep and can edit on your own, you get 0 rep for it!

user2334

But you can edit without approval. UNLIMITED POWER!

Sterno

That's true. You can bring back the i-like-big-butts tag!

fbueckert

@MarkTrapp Until you get suspended for abuse of power. :P

user2334

@fbueckert Fine. LIMITED, NARROWLY-SCOPED POWER!

2

fbueckert

@MarkTrapp Programmer. Pedant. You should know better than to make sweeping, generalist statements!

murgatroid99

18:52

@fbueckert you should know better than to make general statements about programmers and/or pedants

fbueckert

@murgatroid99 Touché

My meta answer has also been edited.

Sterno

@fbueckert Awesome, now those upvotes you got are for the opposite of what they originally voted for! I approve!

fbueckert

@Sterno Not really; the core of the answer is still the same, beyond the need for metagame questions.

I think the main point, that questions or answers that assume meta knowledge is general knowledge are bad. That, I didn't change at all.

Wipqozn

►

Lazers

1

Q: Does playing with a bad guest player damage my stats in MW3?

If I have a friend join in for co-op muliplayer online splitscreen in Modern Warfare 3, and he does badly (as the second player, not the first) does his bad game effect MY stats?

modern-warfare-3

0

Q: In PvP, how does Unstable Affliction affect the healers, strategically?

When playing in large PvP environments (rated battlegrounds, primarily), healers have the responsibility of dispelling their teammates. Warlocks have the responsibility of using Unstable Affliction on as many players as possible. The description of Unstable Affliction states that "if the Unstable...

world-of-warcraft

Mana

19:16

'sup my peeps

Wipqozn

@Mana sup yo my homie g fizzle

Mana

►

user15026

Whee, somewhere along the line I got the Marshal badge. That just leaves Copy Editor for "Gold badges I ever expect to recieve" :D

Mana

greatest spectator sport known to mankind

@AshleyNunn I'm proud of you. wipes tear from eye

user15026

@Mana This is way too entertaining.

Mana

19:22

@AshleyNunn My brother showed it to me when I was with him in New York. I was blown away.

user15026

@Mana I really want to try it now.

Grace Note

Hm...

Mana

@GraceNote Woah!

Grace Note

@Mana ヽ（ﾟヮ｡）ノ

6

Sterno

So Breaking Bad just started its final season. Except it's a two-part season, with the 2nd part airing Summer 2013

That's not one season. That's two short seasons.

Mana

19:27

@GraceNote ¯(ºヮಠ)/¯

StrixVaria

@Sterno That sounds like 2 seasons.

Mana

@Sterno Wait really? Damn.

Ender

@Mana For some reason that reminds me of the oldschool epic Stick Figure Death Battle

Mana

I was hoping by the time I caught up the show would be done.

Sterno

@Mana So wikipedia tells me.

The season will be split into two parts, each containing eight episodes, with the second half debuting in summer 2013.

By this logic, Cheers just had one really long multi-part season

Ender

19:28

I miss Heroes. :( Bad.

badp

The first half-season shall have all odd episodes, and the second half-season shall have all even episodes!

StrixVaria

@Ender I miss Season 1 of Heroes.

Mana

groan.

badp

For maximum confusion.

StrixVaria

The rest of that show can go die in a fire.

Mana

19:29

groooooooan.

Ender

@StrixVaria I understand most of the pubplics outcry of what happened to that show, (especially in the later seasons) but I still love it all.

badp

The best part about the xray goggles is when there's Greed in the secret room and you just casually walk by to another exit

Grace Note

Okay, there's enough people in here that this won't be completely incomprehensible.

Ender

I finished the last season unknowingly right before I deployed, and spent 4 months downrange trying to find the next season, only to find out there isnt one. -.-

Grace Note

This is why the description of the Aww room is stupid and arbitrary.

user15026

19:31

@GraceNote I am not sure what argument you are trying to make here.

Mana

@GraceNote Aww room?

Grace Note

The Aww room prohibits spiders

user15026

@GraceNote Okay, still not following.

badp

@GraceNote I'm sorry, I don't moonspeak

Grace Note

It's a room where, allegedly, people post pictures that, allegedly, are adorable and elicit a cuddly response. I've never really found any of the content in there to do so, but the restriction is outrageous anyway.

Ian Pugsley

19:32

@GraceNote these are spiders!?

Grace Note

@badp They're nothing but meaningless sound-effects.

murgatroid99

@badp the best part of xray goggles is free access to all hidden/secret rooms

Grace Note

Huh. I guess Strix is the only one who'll get it.

StrixVaria

@GraceNote Nope.

user15026

You could try to explain it?

badp

19:33

@GraceNote I don't honestly understand what happens in the fourth panel, the rest is self-explanatory

Mana

@GraceNote You really screwed up on this one, or you've transcended to a level of snark/intelligence incomprehensible to Abby Normal people.

Grace Note

@badp Fourth is a minor burn (as compared to the sizzling on panel 7)

@StrixVaria ...Flame Body?

badp

oh. The horns.

StrixVaria

@GraceNote Uh?

Ian Pugsley

IS IT POKEMANS

StrixVaria

19:35

I recognize the electric bug. I don't remember what the other one is.

Is that the prevo to Volcarona?

Grace Note

...yes.

badp

@StrixVaria Yellow thingy wants to sleep but it's cold outside. Brown thingy is warm but the horns are scolding. Yellow thingy tries a couple time to put himself in position and then succeeds. Red thingy sleeps the whole time and does absolutely nothing.

Grace Note

It's pretty much just a strip of Joltik being absolutely adorable, as it generally is doing.

badp

That's not... particularly cute

user15026

@GraceNote adorable = feelings of awww?

Grace Note

19:37

It's more in the reactions and the expressionism of what is essentially a yellow ball of fuzz

Mana

The Aww room is pretty stupid, by that description.

badp

@Mana I just deny its existence

Grace Note

@Mana I don't really look into it, but I just happened across this image recently, while at the same time noticing the description when I was trying to peruse other rooms on the "Stack Exchange" setting

Mana

@GraceNote don't worry, I think spiders are super cool.

badp

Also I looked back into Binding of Isaac, very casually walked in a room and then... started fighting Mom. Whoops, now I'm ???... with the Yum Heart and half the starting health. gg

Alok

19:42

gaming.stackexchange.com/q/17807/25150 should this be flagged as speculative question? Versus isn't yet released

Mana

@Alok Yeah, seems to make sense to close that one.

Wipqozn

IT exists...

Aww!

To clarify, spiders are not on-topic here. Ever

Gracenote wasn't made of lies.

It's so tempting to post pictures of spiders.

Alok

@Mana Thanks, flagged as 'not a real question'

Grace Note

@Alok I dunno, Mana's answer seems to quite succinctly address the question

Mana

@GraceNote So like, I dunno either.

StrixVaria

19:47

1 hour ago, by StrixVaria

Can we just leave good, interesting, answerable questions open please, and try not to make blanket ban rules.

Alok

@GraceNote From what I see, anything in future is considered speculative and can't be asked?

Wipqozn

in Aww!, Jun 14 at 3:05, by Matt Chan

Ender

does anyone play Wow?

Mana

Yeah, in this case, it was addressable, but in general

oh

yeah okay, let's just drop the generalities and go by case then,

Blem

@Wipqozn Aww!

StrixVaria

19:47

@Mana Can we do this for every question?

That would be super awesome.

Alok

@GraceNote See original version of gaming.stackexchange.com/questions/77200/… ... as I was asking about unreleased stuff it was considered speculation

Blem

@Ender not anymore

Grace Note

@Alok Given that the answer was given over a year ago, that doesn't strike me as "the future"

Alok

Its still future, Versus isn't released yet :)

Ender

I havent played WoW in about 14 months, and Id like to know where I should be\go should I choose to login say... tomorrow. for example.

Wipqozn

19:48

For the record this is the problem with not closing questions quickly.

Grace Note

But the information needed to answer that isn't related to the release

murgatroid99

@StrixVaria This seems like a perfect way to maximize the problem people have with us inconsistently applying our rules

Mana

@StrixVaria Man, I can't tell if you're poking fun at me or something. :(

Alok

I should know because I would have loved to see that release instead of XIII-2 :(

badp

StrixVaria

19:49

@Mana No I think things should generally be treated case by case.

badp

The new task manager is a lie :(

StrixVaria

I also think that we are a little bit too hasty, zealous, and ban-hammer-happy in general.

5

Mana

@GraceNote It's difficult to say that until release though. I can easily imagine the devs backing down on their word and including a poke or two at the other XIII games.

Alok

@GraceNote Apart from saying they're made with the same engine, there is no actual info (and that could change if Square delays long enough and makes a new engine). Anyway, if people want to keep it that's fine too - just wanted to point it out since I was going thru FF-13 questions

Ender

@StrixVaria I strongly agree.

user2334

19:50

@StrixVaria [citation needed], [context needed], [write a meta post if you think there's a problem needed]

Alok

@StrixVaria +1

user2334

And yes, the Versus question should be closed as speculation, too

Sterno

@MarkTrapp I think you're supposed to say "didn't read lol"

Alok

@MarkTrapp If someone said 'the sun is hot', you'd still want proof - but we can't launch you there yet ;)

user2334

@Sterno Oh yeah. Didn't read, lol!

Grace Note

19:52

Let me approach this more from my stance, since it isn't "It got an answer, leave it open", because that's not really the slice of cake we're dealt in this roulette.

user2334

@Alok If someone said "the sun is too hasty, zealous, and warm-happy in general", I'd say the same thing. Provide proof. Otherwise you're just saying things to rile people up

Alok

@MarkTrapp But he IS warm-happy, esp. in summer :(. Isn't there a thermostat somewhere!

StrixVaria

@MarkTrapp If it makes you feel better, I don't group you in with the aforementioned folk.

user2334

@StrixVaria It doesn't. I'm not personally offended by people constantly bringing up the old chestnut every 24 hours, but it is hell of annoying that people are more concerned with telling everyone about how much they think there's a problem but refuse to offer any solutions other than "don't do that because I don't like it".

StrixVaria

I'll think about it more and see if I can put together a reasonable meta post.

Wipqozn

19:55

Grace Note

Hm. Sure love not having the words to express myself here.

Wipqozn

(although in all seriousness I agree with you)

@GraceNote This is a first.

Grace Note

@Wipqozn No it isn't.

Ender

LOL

Wipqozn

@GraceNote You're destroying my image of you!

Ender

19:56

"Your arguing with me!", "No I'm Not!"

badp

@Wipqozn He's just dancing to Maneater, or whatever that song's called

Grace Note

It essentially boiled down to a difference between publication and gameplay elements, and more importantly, the depth we're expected as a source of expertise to address both of those.

In essence, pre-release information about a game tends to be more reflective of output and bereft of vagueries when it comes to things like "Where in the timeline does this game fit?" versus "How does this mechanic work in the actual game?". Granted, this doesn't change the fact that both are susceptible to last-minute revision.

Blem

@Ender just sign up for LFR as dps and get some free loot

Grace Note

So I'd like to say that because pre-release information tends to be the answer to the former class of questions, they aren't necessarily speculation. But it may not be worth the trouble to make that distinction.

user2334

I think in both cases, you're dealing with problems nobody has. Knowing pre-release information sates curiosities, but we don't add anything to the collective knowledge of the internet when we answer questions about them: we just spread interpretations of tea leaves and rumors.

Wipqozn

20:02

Use a White Noise Ringtone to Find Your Lost Cellphone Faster

Alok

@GraceNote As a noob user, I'm just trying to note that I prefer this site being inclusive for all game-related stuff - I don't want to visit imdb for VA info, some font site for typography info (related to games) etc. That said, I understand that people like @MarkTrapp, @LessPop, @agent86 etc. are far more active & vested in the site than I will ever be, and have a much greater say in what goes.

Grace Note

@Alok Everyone has a say. We're a community. Don't feel left out just for being new

Alok

I guess my main 'complaint' is that its hard to follow the rules because they're not always clear a priori, its more of finding out I did something wrong post facto which I hate :/ Still, I'm working on learning the ropes (by asking way too many Qs. >_< )

Sterno

Alok

@GraceNote Oh, I certainly don't feel unwelcome here; just recognizing that people who put in more efforts should have a bigger say obviously (imho)

Blem

20:05

@Sterno the trolling is strong in you

user2334

@Alok Not for nothing, but one of the reasons why I resigned from being a moderator is that I don't want to be considered to have a much greater say than anyone. Either you accept my arguments or not. Pretend I have the same amount of rep and activity as you.

Wipqozn

@Sterno It must be true because a random picture without citations says so.

Sterno

@Wipqozn Only 80% of internet statistics are made up on the spot!

Grace Note

@MarkTrapp Yeah, I kinda wish I could be treated the same way, but I've got actual personability reputation that always gets in the way.

Alok

@MarkTrapp The thing is, I understand your arguments - you're def. fair in your views, I just wish you had a more relaxed criteria ;)

Grace Note

20:07

It's extremely tiring to constantly see "Does this post have no downvotes because everyone loves Grace Note?" and completely dismissive of the part where it should be because of agreement with my stance.

fbueckert

@Alok More relaxed criteria tends to turn us into the same as GameFAQs.

murgatroid99

@Alok I would say that we are still trying to figure out exactly what our rules should be

user2334

@Sterno ~~Always~~ Not ever leaving to send you happy?

Alok

@fbueckert Not that easygoing :p

David B

@Ender if you do sign in to WoW tomorrow, you should do all the quests in Mount Hyjal to open the firelands dailies at level 85. This information will be irrelevant come MistsOfPandas

Grace Note

20:08

@MarkTrapp Always isn't the opposite of Always

murgatroid99

@MarkTrapp always is the opposite of always?

Alok

@murgatroid99 Hmm makes sense, guess I'll sit back unless someone assumes unanimous agreement and I happen to disagree.

fbueckert

@MarkTrapp That's...an interesting interpretation.

user2334

@GraceNote @murgatroid99 fixed >.>

murgatroid99

@Alok you don't have to. "we" did not necessarily exclude you

Wipqozn

20:09

@MarkTrapp You still don't got it.

Lazers

1

Q: Is there somewhere I can go to easily 'catch up' to current events?

Sometimes players in wow take long breaks of gameplay. Is there somewhere that can help mitigate the lack of information obtained during such breaks about where people should be? (zones, dungeons, ect) Is there somewhere, in or out of game, that I can visit and find out where a toon (max level) s...

world-of-warcraft

fbueckert

@Alok Well, that's the problem with standards. :P Some of us are going to want to be much stricter, while others want to relax the rules. :)

Grace Note

@fbueckert This is why we operate as a community, though - ideally, it allows freedom of expression without causing the system to collapse on itself

Which is why policy guidelines were designed to exist in the first place - to allow for such leeway without leaving enough grey that the system collapses on itself

fbueckert

@GraceNote And seeing as how we haven't degenerated into bickering and fighting, I'd say we're doing fairly well.

There's always room for improvement.

Wipqozn

@fbueckert you weren't here for ITG, were you?

fbueckert

20:11

@Wipqozn I think I caught the tail end of that.

Grace Note

@Wipqozn You weren't here for most of game-rec

murgatroid99

@Wipqozn we came out of that fine

Wipqozn

@GraceNote yeah, I hear that was even worse.

Alok

@GraceNote Well if it helps; I don't know much about you other than the diamond (& I think you're an SE employee now?).

Wipqozn

@Alok She's a robot ninja.

Grace Note

20:12

@Alok Well, you should also know I'm a well-maintained piece of self-propelled artillery.

user2334

@GraceNote Yeah… you SE people all seem to have weird problems when it comes to things you say publicly. Like, everyone seems to agree with you, but they wildly misinterpret what you say a lot. Then you have Jeff, who is quoted as law except when people disagree, then he's the Great Satan.

Grace Note

I may also moonlight as a super assassin idol.

Alok

So, any relation to @OrigamiRobot? Was that a robot who got shredded by ninja blades?

fbueckert

It's the same with democracy; sure, it's not perfect and has its flaws, but so far, it's the best we got!

Grace Note

Nope, because I'm not a robot

Wipqozn

20:13

@GraceNote Which is exactly what a robot would say.

Grace Note

@MarkTrapp I'm not even sure it's my employment status that affects it as much, at least sometimes what it feels like

Wipqozn

@GraceNote I don't think it has anything to do either your modship or your employment status. I think it's just that you're GraceNote.

Grace Note

@Wipqozn I have allowed, through action or inaction, a human being to come to harm in my presence.

Wipqozn

@GraceNote not all robots need to follow the three laws.

murgatroid99

@GraceNote so did Asimov's robots, occasionally

Grace Note

20:14

@Wipqozn Which is bad when it then results in the thing I aforementioned

fbueckert

@GraceNote Don't worry. I'll argue with you.

murgatroid99

@GraceNote I would argue with you except that I often end up agreeing with what you say

So, related to an earlier conversation, do we like questions like this?

0

Q: Why don't we see more Veigar in League of Legends?

I recently watched Curse.NA defeat AL at the ggClassic. In my opinion it was Nyjacky playing Veigar who really made the difference. Once he got to "nuke status" with his DFG and just enough AP he was able to burst down from 100% to 0% any single champ on the other team, or damn near close. The...

league-of-legends

fbueckert

@murgatroid99 I was about to ask the same thing.

StrixVaria

@murgatroid99 I think this question is completely valid.

I asked a similar question about Brawl a while back.

fbueckert

My kneejerk reaction says this is bad, due to the "Why?" bit.

StrixVaria

20:18

It's essentially asking what makes Veigar weak compared to other picks. Where is he lacking?

Grace Note

It could be phrased better

StrixVaria

@GraceNote Agreed.

But not off topic or close-worthy.

murgatroid99

@GraceNote this is what I was thinking

Wipqozn

0

Q: Why are kassadin and shaco always banned in solo queue?

They are never played in tournaments and don't seem very strong in general. Is it just the free flash they get? Is it because they are countered by vision?

league-of-legends

What about this?

which is currently closed.

Grace Note

Probably could be rephrased as well

Though I think the one murgatroid brought up is a lot easier to work with on that end

Wipqozn

20:22

-1

Q: Why was (is?) Irelia so popular top?

She was picked/banned in like every game at IEM Hannover but I don't really understand why. Is it because her passive is strong in teamfights? She doesn't seem particularly tanky so I don't really get why she's considered a good initiator late game and her laning has been noted as weak (probably ...

league-of-legends

StrixVaria

I think these are all valid. They are difficult questions to answer well, but that doesn't mean the question itself is bad.

user2334

@Wipqozn It's prima face okay because there's a difference between opinions and subjective experience, but it fails to premise the question on anything more than a hunch. Which is different from the earlier one, which describes a concrete, specific experience.

StrixVaria

@MarkTrapp That's a good point. I didn't like that one so much and I was trying to pinpoint why.

Grace Note

@Wipqozn That one is even easier to fix up, since it gives us a strategy direction - top lane. It's really easy to shape in the direction of "What makes Irelia a strong top lane contender?"

user2334

@Wipqozn That one falls into the same "this is my hunch" trap, I think

StrixVaria

20:24

The answer to that question could be confirmation bias (I think this is the right term).

Wipqozn

1

Q: Why do people hate Teemo?

When people see a Teemo alone, they always chase no matter what, and when I was soloing top Teemo, I got ganked 7 times by everyone except their ad carry. Why is Teemo a global taunt?

league-of-legends

StrixVaria

@Wipqozn That's just awful.

Grace Note

That one is just bad

Wipqozn

I concur. Just trying to grab all the closed questions which are of a similiar nature.

user2334

@Wipqozn Creates a universal premise from a specific example: bad. "Why was I ganked relentlessly in X game?" where X is a description of the game might work

fbueckert

20:25

@Wipqozn That one's basically a rant.

badp

@Wipqozn Community deleted <3

Grace Note

@Wipqozn More to point, I think this one is simply identified as "Why do people hate X", which is about opinion and is a far cry from talking about the actual mechanical and strategic points.

badp

@GraceNote Although there's the inherent assumption that the top lane is special and somehow different from the bottom lane

Grace Note

@badp In a meta sense, top lane is 1v1 while bot is 2v2

StrixVaria

@badp The metagame dictates specific kinds of champions go to specific lanes.

badp

20:28

(Is a team's top lane even the other team's top lane? It wouldn't take much to make it look like you always start from the bottom left corner)

StrixVaria

Top is the same for both teams.

Oak

@GraceNote I'd downvote you <3

Out of love, of course

Grace Note

Haha

Wipqozn

@GraceNote Couldn't it be reworked to "Why do people always chase a solo Teemo?" to solve the problem of hate/rant?

badp

@GraceNote That's backwards. Everybody loves Grace Note because whenever there's an argument you happen to be 1) right 2) clearly right 3) right for the right reasons. The fact you're right more often than not is why you get massive reps, not the other way round.

Oak

20:32

Man, so far the "must be quality post" for LoL seems to be pretty good.

badp

(2 means you can explain very well why you are right)

Oak

e.g. the answers on gaming.stackexchange.com/questions/77235/…

Grace Note

@Wipqozn See MarkTrapp's point about "universal premise from a specific example"

user2334

"John died of cancer. Why does everyone die of cancer?"

Wipqozn

@GraceNote Yes, I agree with his point (and that the question is bad), I was just addressing your particular point about "hate".

Grace Note

20:37

@Wipqozn The premise of his question is based on the existence of hate - the perception is that solo Teemo gets chased because there is hate, and it takes that premise as a given and asks for an explanation as to why.

Compare the Irelia question, in which we can take the premise "Irelia is good at top lane", which is evidenced through the popularity of pick/ban, and question that and actually answer that - we can answer whether or not Irelia is good at top lane and why. We can't answer why people hate Teemo.

Wipqozn

@GraceNote Yes, but you can just remove the "hate" part and it becomes: "Why do people always chase Teemo?"

fbueckert

@Wipqozn And the poster is still making the assumption that a solo Teemo always gets chased.

Wipqozn

@fbueckert Yes, which is the real problem.

I just don't think "hate" is what's a problem here, and can easily be removed from the question. If that was the only problem with the question, then it should be edited > re-opened, not deleted.

Grace Note

@Wipqozn If it was a problem of word choice, you should know I would've recommended editing and reopening.

fbueckert

@Wipqozn The whole question was extremely badly written; he was basically ranting.

Grace Note

20:41

Therefor, it isn't merely the word "hate", it is the essence of the question is founded on the premise of opinion of a character as the defining feature behind what is going on, and asking about this premise.

I didn't say "It boils down to "Why do we hate X"" because "hate" is a bad word - it isn't, and that isn't the issue. The issue is with the question being, at its core, "Why do we hate X", which is a question about opinions, and that's a bad question class.

Lazers

0

Q: Why don't we see more Veigar in League of Legends?

I recently watched Curse.NA defeat AL at the ggClassic. In my opinion it was Nyjacky playing Veigar who really made the difference. Once he got to "nuke status" with his DFG and just enough AP he was able to burst down from 100% to 0% any single champ on the other team, or damn near close. The...

league-of-legends

Wipqozn

@GraceNote His underlying premise is "People always chase Teemo." He then answered that with "Because everyone hates teemo". He should have just asked the underlying one, "People always chase Teemo", instead of the "hate" one, which is really an answer.

Also, I didn't mean to imply the only problem was the presence of the word hate. My apologies for the miscommunication above.

Grace Note

But he's already satisfied with knowing (his own) answer to the question of "Why do people chase Teemo?" It's pre-established - answering that for him is non-productive to what he as an asker is wanting.

Wipqozn

@GraceNote I think this is where we disagree. I think what he really wants to know is why people always chase him as teemo. I think he then just got all upset and then he huffed, and he puffed, and popped this question out.

In which case we could re-focus the question to be asking "Why do people always chase Teemo?".

fbueckert

@Wipqozn Which is still an opinion based off of a single match; there's no data beyond that backing it up.

Grace Note

20:49

@Wipqozn And we already addressed what's wrong with that anyway.

David B

(I know nothing of LoL and I haven't read the question)... are people always chasing Teemo or chasing "his" Teemo. Is the answer to his question: stop being an obvious target/weak link?

Grace Note

@DavidB Technically it's ambiguous on that front

Wipqozn

@fbueckert Yes, I know. I've already stated that I think this is a bad question because of that. I just disagree with this argument that Grace raised about why it's a problem, so I'm just addressing that.

@GraceNote mhm, yes indeedy.

David B

technical ambiguity is my home, I'll go read the question and see if there's something useful for me to say

or not, it's gone, hasta la veesta :)

GnomeSlicE

@DavidB ...You meant 'vista' right?

David B

20:52

huked on fonix

Grace Note

Gonna be vanished for a bit

Aww!

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