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00:01
can dorfs walk over ice?
Well, I'm off for the night, good luck with your fort
my stupid miner just fell 4 z levels...
left foot, right upper arm, lower left leg, left upper leg; all broken & bruised. right false rib, right lung, right shoulder; only broken; left lung, upper body; only bruised.
00:24
yay, he's now in bed!
11
A: What's the Zerg answer for Protoss Canons + Phoenixes ?

tzenesThis is actually the best possible thing to happen for you as a zerg player. He's running just Phoenixes and he has given you map control FOR FREE. Your Strategy is going to be as follows: Build a couple spore to stop early Phoenix harass. Expand to 3 or 4 bases Spread your creep Build pretty...

Phoenix or Phoenixes?
yaaaaay finally got the L4D2 achievement for surviving all campaigns on expert
I don't think I'm gonna play this game for a month
00:51
DF questions are always so amusing to read
hehe. I stayed up late last night playing, but I didn't have internet so I couldn't ask questions. I'm stuck right now on the Elves thing cos I don't want to make a political faux pas with the elves (given that I don't have much in the way of an army.
01:11
aww...you rememer that miner that fell 4 z-levels, and survived?
lol did he die?
well... after lying in bed for over thee months, and getting better gradually.
he died as the result of an infection.
:76247 buy a better router :D
HALP! he's gone mad! My dwarf is crazy!
01:33
0
Q: What do I do with excess Dacite and Alunite, etc?

Mechko Possible Duplicate: How do I collect rocks in Dwarf Fortress Pretty much the entire area I've mined right now is full of dacite and alunite, but I want to empty it out to make offices for my nobles. Should I just build over it or should I move it somewhere to store it?

dup
1
Q: Elves asking about a tree slaughter cap in Dwarf Fortress

Mechko Possible Duplicate: What happens if I ignore the Tree-Hugging Elves? The elves are asking me to cap my tree felling to 100 until the next time they come by. Currently, I'm unsure as to how much I am felling, so I want to be sure I can control it before I accept. On the other hand, I'...

dup
01:47
That last question there would be more appropriate for gamedev wouldn't it?
If that, even... not really sure where the asker is going there...
:76421 I love how your chat message is also a dupe. I renamed your existing question to contain the word elves in the title and voted to close mine. Hope you don't mind.
02:05
@Mechko different phrasing, vote to undelete and close as duplicate so others may be redirected from google searches
@Arda
@McKay
either of you around?
Arda is sleeping.
damnit, no one is around when I need them
@alexanderpas do you have the rep to undelete?
nope, missing 127 rep.
damnit
oh I'm back
I should undelete my older question?
02:10
@Mechko undelete
close as duplicate is there for a reason, its to improve search hits
ah. Sorry. I can't find the question anymore, though. The permalink is gone.
:(
gdamnit
I need people with high enough rep
Jeez... my average rep gain from questions is above 30. I feel like a whore. My answer rep gain is pretty low.
http://gaming.stackexchange.com/questions/5126/elves-asking-about-a-tree-slaughter-cap-in-dwarf-fortress
please close it if you can
damnit alexanderpa write more good answers so I can upvote you
@mechko voted, need 1 more
cool.
I could furiously upvote @alexanderpas but then I'd probably be rolled back.
02:21
he only needs a couple more
only 7 rep to go.
gave him two. but for answers which were interesting. Btw, do you know how to add a 'related question' to a new question?
@alexanderpas hehe I feel like downvoting you twice and then upvoting a question so that I can leave you on 1 rep short :D
that's just mean!
02:26
now I just need 1 more person
Oooh. You could go and upvote me 75 times, then I could do it :D
erm... I wasn't serious... it's going to take a hell of a long time and they'll be rolled back...
@tzenes I wasn't serious...
@Mechko its ok, I wasn't going to do it
I don't mind tossing an extra 4-5 votes to Alexander as he probably deserves it and it solve a problem
but 75 is rediculous
and I think we're vote limited as some number
@tzenes oh ok. I've gained like 60 rep in the last 3 minutes and their all random questions :-p
its on your own merit then
ok, when you edit your question it pings me again
that's broken
here ping me
or better yet
@Mechko this is a ping test
02:38
see it pings you again
I have friends that do that fast ascensions like that, they're nuts
yep pinged me again. That's good, I think. I mean, if I made serious edits to the post, you'd want to know, though spurious edits are a bit irritating
Fallen, what's your rep like?
nope, its broken and I'm opening a question on meta
The next closest user is Jeffrey @tzenes
02:40
I don't have SC II so I've missed out on the latest answer opportunities, haha
I just need someone over 2k
do you want it fallen?
I have a guest pass
@FallenAngelEyes yeah I know what you mean :-p
anyway:
0
Q: Double Ping bug on chat

tzenesIn chat if you edit a message with @tzenes in it, then I get pinged a second time. Once for the original post and once for the edit. It would seem to me this is not the intention of pinging.

Thanks for the offer! I think I'll pass though because I have a lot of new games to play at the moment, which is part of why I don't have it.
Right now I feel almost more like a game collector than a game player because I keep buying faster than I can play through them (damn you summer Steam sales, damn you...)
yeah, I have that problem too
I have like 6 games in my queue
02:43
Heh. at this rate, I'll hit the reputation cap in the next 10 minutes. And I have the opposite problem. I play the same games over and over so much that it's almost a waste.
I think if you have disposable income its very hard to not buy more games than you can play
yeah there's definitely someone vote-botting me.
also close:
2
Q: Are there any scriptable games?

CrazyJugglerDrummer Possible Duplicate: What are some programming games that are out there? I've been thinking of how to get kids interested in programming, and combining it with their existing interests seems a good idea. Are there any game that are scriptable? It would be sooo cool if there was a FPS wh...

close it as a duplicate not as offtopic.
sure
02:45
don't close it as off-topic cos it's on the border and there are already (closed) questions out there on the topic which were closed as subjective
I very rarely replay games, even though I want to. :( I feel like I shouldn't replay stuff when I already have so much to play that's unplayed. Same problem I have with books.
I think it should be closed, either its off topic or its a duplicate of a closed question
bbl
agreed. later
k. I'm going to go call a girl and see if I can get a date in NYC in two weeks :D. Later
 
1 hour later…
04:00
Yo. anyone here?
I am
also:
0
Q: Games with a unique, especially interesting, or particularly epic setting

MGOwenI'm looking for games that have a very interesting or epic setting for the story. For example: Bioshock Mid-Atlantic, 1960s: A plane crash drops you into the ocean, where you discover a hidden city built underwater by an enigmatic Howard Hughes/Citizen Kane type figure to allow scientists to...

close
already did.
already did.
@tzenes would it be bad practice to post that question to my personal site and leave a link? I want answers to it, but I know that it shouldn't be hosted on gaming and it shouldn't give anyone rep. I posted on meta about it.
as you can see, right here
04:08
link your site?
no, I mean link it here
so I can see it
www.mechko.com
it doesn't have anything from the last 2 months :-p
If it were a forums or a website set up for this kind of thing it'd probably be fine
I started it in finals week last semester as a method of procrastination, but writing for it is less interesting when I have free time.
but right now that's just a random blog
we could probably throw something interesting together in ruby on rails if you really wanted
Yeah. If we could get that running with everyone's approval, I think Gaming would be perfect
04:11
The basic design would be a page for every game. So instead of asking a question you could add a new game
people could add characteristics of that game (equivalent of tags)
suggest recommendations
but here is the key thing, they could say if they played it and rate the game
that way we can automatically generate recommendations with enough data
a simple singular value decomposition should be sufficient
just use drupal, you can rebuild SE in it.
Yeah... that's actually pretty awesome. We can also have a place asking for specific tags to be added to games.
so like a game-rec question becomes a request on this site and people can upvote or downvote recommendations
well we can just scrape for it
that's not an issue
the key thing is building up a profile of things people like
because that way you come and check out a couple game-recs, you come back and the site starts making suggestions
yeah. but the site becomes interesting only if you can make a specific request and search by it or request game-recs of a certain type.
otherwise it's just another game review site
Having people tag characteristics allows us to leverage more data
04:14
yep
well we're not posting a rating for each game
you rate it for yourself
so we can svd
but that's a personal thing
yeah. The other thing is, if we make it a personal site rather than something pushed by SE, we can allow subjective discussions and such in a corner.
well I don't know how much of that we really want
I think the goal is to harvest information
and use machine learning
so we can have a full hangout place for gaming folk.
its a very "google" approach
well they hang out here
if we really want a hangout we should create a forum
04:16
yes that's true, but I'm talking about the bit of gaming that I feel is missing.
there are karma schemes that work well for forum voting
yeah, pretty much what I was thinking
See, I don't think anything is missing. I expect my hammer to be a hammer. If I need to screw in stuff I get a screwdriver
I don't expect my hammer to deal with screws
Yeah, I prefer carrying a multitool so I don't have to go searching for a screwdriver or screws
and what do you think the guys who build houses prefer?
I know a lot of guys in construction
none of them use multitools
04:18
Good thing I'm a computer scientist and not a builder
let's put it this way then: do you expect your language to be both strongly typed and weakly? do you expect it to be both prototypal and class based? do you expect it to be both imperitive and functional?
do you expect it to be C, Lisp and Java all rolled into one?
or do you use the right tool for the job?
I didn't suggest we do a website in lisp because its not good for webdevelopment
I suggested Ruby on Rails because we can do rapid prototyping
not Java Tomcat which would require more building
I could go on
Heck, even REGEX is turing complete, but I'm not going to write a webserver in it
sorry I got ddossed
some little prick decided to start spamming the network with three laptops.
It's for 'research'
My comment was going to be: Well, do you expect your C, Lisp, Java, and Ruby to all run on one OS or would you like to reboot into a different partition for every program you run?
Mechko I already do
actually usually the problem is for me I can't run C# on linux (mono sucks)
or the Perl thing I wrote doesn't have supported moduals on windows
>< forget it. you can make the game rec site if you like, but I'll just refer subjective to my site unless there is a better place to send it.
now what I need is a site that will tell me if backbreaker is any good
04:36
did gaming just go down or is it my internet
04:54
@alexanderpas @ArdaXi @FallenAngelEyes @McKay ping
check meta about referring interesting subjective questions to your own personal site
We ought to have a policy about it. Perhaps a rule like you can't refer a question you asked to your own site.
05:09
@FallenAngelEyes did you look?
Yeah, saw Robert's answer
Yeah. I'm getting pretty disappointed with the Gaming site. it was awesome at first, but I think it's not what I was hoping for. Its frustrating because all the right people are here, but it's just not suited for the whole 'gaming community' thing and I don't think it can survive solely on the 'objective questions' thing simply because you'd be competing with a vast multitude of other sites which cater to all the needs of a gaming community. Hope I'm wrong.
We just need a larger userbase.
At least . . . that'll be a start.
Yeah, I guess. But you already have forums and steam groups etc where people go to hang out and stuff. I just think its a touch restricted in the current form to match all the needs of gamers. Starcraft II and Dwarf Fortress are powering the site for the most part because they didn't have good walkthroughs before the site started, so perhaps it will continue to grow, but then again all you need is one programmer to look at the site and realize that he just needs to clone it and add game-rec
to pretty much completely replace this site for just about any gamer whose not here already and probably half the gamers who already are.
True; there isn't really a niche for a gaming-based Stack Exchange site.
Time will tell . . .
05:33
See... here comes yet another question that is going to be closed as soon as the 1000+ crew see it.
@Mechko you're wrong
The same could have been said about Stackoverflow, but that didn't happen either
What's more DF+SC2 make up less than 10% of all questions
There were a number of SE gaming sites, yet none took off
all allowed discussion
Gamefaqs has an almost identical QA implementation, yet its largely unused.
its heavy moderation that keeps good sites afloat, and the reason bad sites sink
Gaming was the first one I saw, and I didn't spend too much time on Area51, otherwise I would have checked out the others, some of which I noticed AFTER they went into private beta.
before Area51
SE 1.0
they were public for months
SE 1.0 didn't have the best advertising. How can the same be said about SO?
SE 1.0 had whatever advertising people put into it
SE 2.0 actually only has cross site advertising
but in SE 1.0 Jeff&co didn't own the sites
they were owned by other people
05:43
SO has a much larger scope and the 'level of expertise' on SO is not as important as the type of expertise. I never heard of the SE 1.0 sites despite being a pretty frequent user of SO
who advertised as they saw fight
YEAH, you didn't
infact, no one did
they almost universally failed
hence SE 2.0
SE 2.0 was only visible because they were advertised on SO
I think that's my point
And most of the people here are SO people in any case
th'ats not true
05:44
Yeah that's my point too
most people here are NOT SO people
30% have never used another SE site
by your logic all gamefaqs has to do is buy advertising on SO and it'll take off
Going with your figure, though I doubt it, how many of the 30% of Gaming has asked more than one question?
I don't have that statistic
I'm not sure if there is even a way to find out
I have 15 SE accounts of which I've used 2 in the last week. and probably 10 of them, I will never use again. I just made them to take a look at the site.
:77134 and maybe have fun in area 51 ;)
05:47
I'd argue then, that most people from SO or other SE sites are not the primary users
SO works so well because you don't have to have serious Java expertise to answer half of the Java questions etc. Just being a programmer, you gather expertise. Whereas Gaming questions are quite specific.
I'll tell you why I go to SO. Because no matter the question, I'm very sure they can answer it.
did you see the lots'o K views on gaming? those were top ranking google.
@tzenes what would give you that idea? I'm not even convinced about the 30% statistic. And all we have to do is look at the distribution of rep to figure it out. And looking at gaming, you need to have played the game to answer it, but you're sure as hell not going to stick around if games that you play don't get answers. I stuck around mainly due to the popular List questions I asked earlier.
Recently, I started playing DF cos I was curious, but there are very few MW2 players here. Most of the recent set of questions are SC2. The fact that two games have even a 10% share on the site is worrying
Area51, shows 26% have committed to no other SE (I was slight off). Of the original people who commited to the proposal (the SO users) 24% followed through
05:51
and i can answer questions for games i've never played, just because I'm familiar with the input device.
10% between the two
fog?
for perhapse
Beg your pardon, by SO I mean Stack Overflow, Super User AND Server Fault - the original SO-Family, so to speak
So do I
Mechko you may criticize the lack of game knowlege, but 95% of questions have answers. This is just as good as SO (though not as good as cooking at 100%).
05:53
I bet worms reloaded get's a bunch'o questions when it get's released. 1 influx of games at a time. (just wait for the holidays!)
Cooking is subjective.
I dunno, look at their site. Its pretty good
Well I've voted to close some 4 or 5 questions today already and I've only seen maybe twice that be asked since I got online 4 hours ago.
That's not a good ratio
(ok maybe it was 3 or 4 questions going for close, five is a bit high)
It's (or was) night in europe.
sleeping dutchman anyone?
yes, but it was 8pm in the States.
depends on where you are.
05:57
I'm in Australia
Anyways, we'll see. I'm just not convinced. I think we've closed off too many types of questions. Right now, SC is really popular and anyone who posts about Starcraft II is liable to get a handful of hits, but then, when SCII gets familiar and the number of questions dies down, we'll lose half of those views. I'm worried about the transients.
in the last 16 hours there have been 35 questions (4 of which were closed)
SC2 -> worms -> next game
as long as those game creators want money, we get questions.
If our user base is constantly in churn, we're not going to shoot off, is all I'm saying
Madden NFL 11 -> Madden NFL 12 -> Madden NFL 13 -> Madden NFL 14
and each time, they know where to come.
they will get addicted to the format.
last four hours, 12 questions, 4 by me, one more deleted, 3 others closed, one more about to be closed. That leaves 4 questions in the last 4 hours, averaging 2 answers each, prime time in the states
06:02
we're already pumping out 100 answers/day.
that means about 10% of our crew is non-transient
I don't know how you're coming up with your transient metric
also, can you call them returners?
transient has a different meaning around here
that seems to correpond with our google exposure questions, 2k vs. 200 views
what does transient mean here?
Also most of our questions come 8am-7pm PST
I didn't mean here in gaming, I mean where I grew up
I take it back 8am-6pm PST
GMT+8 I want to say?
maybe +9
I don't know GMT off hand
06:06
i'm in CEST (GMT+2), but i can read UTC just the same.
Its mostly North Americans at work
people tend not to post questions when they're home
Well, then I'll see that first hand in under 2 weeks
Anyways. Gaming fills half a niche and it won't be able to fill the other half due to the 'objective' nature of SE. All someone has to do is make a gaming Q&A site and add a subjective and a game rec portion and get someone like Randall Munroe to look at it and Gaming.se won't be able to compete.
I mean, the easy Q&A deal is great and it's unique to SE, but as it leaves SO-techgeek family, its going to become well known to a whole bunch of people. And as someone pointed out, you can make a SE-like on drupal
Aren't you a programmer?
grab Drupal and make it
I guarantee without heavy moderation it'll never go anywhere
Heavy moderation is different to proscribed areas.
how do you moderate things that are subjective?
06:23
You just have to make sure they don't digress to mudslinging
How do you keep them on topic? How do you prevent it from devolving into one of the 8 million gaming forums out there?
As you said, we have a strong moderation policy here. There is already a word-check on questions, it can't be too hard to implement it on answers too. Any answer that uses one of several known trolling words is flagged, subjective answers/questions that get downvoted below -3 get deleted.
Subjective questions can also have a lifetime period of like a week after which they get closed. Subjective questions that don't make a minimal mark get deleted instead of closed.
Keep a strong no swearing policy and automate deletion of seriously negative questions
You keep focusing on swearing and trolling. This is not what I'm refering to
How do you keep it on topic?
Think of it this way: You have a bar, people love the bar, they have a great time, they just want to stick around and have fun
but at somepoint you've got to close the bar and go home
it's pretty simple. What makes a thread a troll-thread is that initial troll spark. Otherwise these things tend to stay on topic. As you said, there are 8 million other gaming sites.
but these people are having so much fun they don't want to leave
06:36
...
so let's say you keep the bar open
and everyone is so excited they just stick around and have fun
but eventually they've done whatever they can
But we're not... we're closing them weekly.
and they're still excited but there is only so much you can drink or so many times you can puke
will you let me finish?
I haven't gotten to the good part yet
so eventually they invent the game of throwing peanuts at eachother
it would be nice if I could have finished too.
I gave you 15 minutes before I started my analogy
but fine, go ahead
06:38
Ok so your proven my point. I'm used to people who listen to arguments. and it was 3 minutes, not 15.
23-36. So 13 minutes
can I make my analogy now?
My first post was 7m ago
but my last was longer
I don't see any value in arguing over numbers
if you have a point to make, feel free
otherwise I'd like to make one
I was on the phone. Ok you've made your point. The average person can't hold a discussion.
no, that wasn't my point
let me start over then
06:41
ok whatever go ahead
yes?
Imagine you invent Chess. And people love it. They're fanatic about it. So they play all the chess they can, they hang out in chess halls. At some point they get bored. They still love chess, so they're not going to leave, but eventually they invent the game where they throw chess pieces at each other.
how do you stop that from happening?
If you read my posts, you close the subjective questions after a week so that that doesn't happen
so every 5 minutes you tell them to stop
and they stop
but then they do it again for their 5 minutes
and now you've invented the game of red-light green-light
Further, you simply make a rule that an ANSWER must directly answer the question, not refer another answer
refer another answer?
06:45
can we take this discussion to meta.gaming and WP:NPA
we're gamers Alexander, we have Wheton's Law
Say @alexanderpas ask a question and you answer it. If I were to write an answer, I'd have to be working with what he said, not what you said. If I have something to say about your answer, I'd have to comment. That's simple enough
so now they're just throwing peices across the table, but they're still not playing chess
But they're contained, so it doesn't matter
Ok, so now you have the chess hall where people are throwing pieces. Technically they're not bothering anyone, but its not exactly the place you want to go to play chess. Certainly not if you're Gary Kasperov. So the serious chess players go somewhere else, and now the people who follow them leave.
And new people get the impression this isn't a place to play chess, so they go to some other chess hall, and all you really have are the holligans. And here is the thing, eventually they will get bored of throwing chess pieces and go somewhere else
06:49
Heh. I met Kasparov. He's a bit of a loon. Came and gave a speech ending with 'If you're Russian, consider me for president of Russia in 10 years'
Yeah, he's big into politics these days
I guess he doesn't like the direction Russia is heading
Oh I agree with him, but he's not the best ambassador to the west for Russia, and that's a different discussion.
I had dinner with him. He's a little, shall we say, shallow.
Sorry I dont' know a thing about Russian politics or ambassadors
meh I took a class on Russia and Kasparov is a good friend of several people at my college, so he came by to give his political tirade.
For the record, this kind of divergence sits in a comment string under your answer (which happens with even the most objective of questions) or on chat, which is fine. The rest is up to moderators. Did I mention subjective questions are all CW so that you don't get rep being subjective?
Rep has very little meaning. Its mostly a way to keep track of who's been around a long time. But none of this solves the problem that you have a basically empty chess hall now
06:56
What I envision with the 'subjective' questions is that you don't have a discussion so much as ask for one off opinions from others. What's important is not allowing trollseeds to spread around and keeping a time limit on the questions so that they don't get a life of their own.
the empty chess hall is a slippery slope. What you have now is a bunch of people who share opinions RELATED TO GAMING as well as your basic Q&A
I'm not sure that's really a slippery slope
that's not saying things are bad and bad will get worse
its saying this is a fundamental problem which in and of itself will drive people off
You seem to assume that the mods aren't going to do anything
not cause something worse which does it
I would argue that by closing game-rec the mods (and community) IS doing something

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