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00:00
Just scrolling down the question list and almost spit out my drink
Yum... Corpse.
As long as it's fresh, they rot pretty quickly
no, really
Yuk... Rotten Corpse.
still talking about nethack?
just a joke based on this question:
62
Q: How can I tell if a corpse is safe to eat?

Kaestur HakarlI am playing a human wizard, and I just killed a monster, leaving a corpse on the ground. How do I tell whether it is safe to eat this corpse? I leave the monster unspecified because I am interested in "how can I figure out whether this is edible," rather than whether any particular monster is e...

00:20
"it takes absolutely no prior knowledge to cast opinions." I love it
it takes absolutely no prior relevant knowledge to answer certain questions, google is helpful enough.
@FallenAngelEyes I think there are worse things than becoming ElitistJerks.
Like I said though, I think part of what we have to take into consideration is what would comprise a healthy level of exclusion at this point in the site's timeline.
Agreed, I think where we disagree is what constitutes "healthy"
Perhaps this should be a separate discussion as well?
00:26
How many comments do we have?
this is going to be fun, read the comments :D
2
A: Do Guitar Hero peripherals work with Rock Band and vice versa?

Jeff AtwoodAs JustinP8 pointed out you can also check here: http://www.joystiq.com/Instrument-Compatibility-Matrix/ But there's no need to read that, as long as we're talking about a game released in the last 2 years or so, all the plastic instruments are broadly cross-compatible and work in either game -...

Joe
whats up
While we have several threads in regards to [game-rec], but I think that this issue is part of that, though we don't have a separate commentary for it.
Hi @Joe
Ok, well start the thread and we'll see how it goes
01:00
Posted, gonna go join my guild for a bit now, so won't be that responsive, ping me if you guys need a close vote or something
I think the floodgate analogy is more perfect than you think it is
right now, the floodgates are already open, and while we can close them again, we'd also have to pump the water :)
which is basically the problem we have now, with the questions being here still, even if we block future ones
01:21
this looks interesting
01:54
I don't know, @ArdaXi can the closed questions act as a deterrent? We're dealing with people here not water. Sticking a few heads on pikes might be healthy. Maybe the bailing here should be the open game-rec's that are bad.
2
the 2nd one is argumentative and the other two are vague
02:57
Evenin'
hey grace
how's the underworld?
I don't have the consciousness to post an answer to @FallenAngelEyes question, so I'm going to throw my two cents here.
Excluding game-rec and other lists isn't a measure of elitism. Or at least, I hope people aren't using it in that fashion.
Rather, it's a two-fold concern derived from the fact we're running on the Stack Exchange engine. An engine which is developed for creating Q&A sites. I don't want to push people away from using us as Q&A, but I do want to try and restrict what it is that we do that isn't Q&A. Focus on real answers being provided to real questions is what will put us in the market for being the top source for gaming answers.
If people are trying to see Gaming as the "end all community for all things gaming-related", they will be sorely disappointed. Even getting past lists, we can't cater to this idea. Even on the problem solving front, we have no facilities for comfortable hosting of walkthroughs or extensive guides.
2
I think that's well said
03:03
Then you consider things like scheduling net-games, no less a social activity than polling for a new game and no less of an important facet of being a gamer. But that, along with many other aspects, are simply not something we're suited to dealing with on a parent site that's meant to be Q&A.
Repositories represent a completely different class of knowledge than what the rest of our Q&A consists of. You can be an expert at knowing different kinds of games, for example, or knowing the mod community of a specific game to know what is and isn't around.
However, support for repositories is also a lot different. Compared to our other Q&A, repositories require a lot of research, maintenance, and information to be useful. They also require a different style of support to handle them.
Put it quite simply, they're a fundamentally different element than our other questions, but we're trying to house them in the same storage space.
Scratch that, let's do that example later.
What's more important is not the necessity of separate storage spaces, but the necessity of large storage spaces. In order for us to be able to support building willy-nilly repositories like people are asking, we need to be able to support every conceivable list.
When you get past limiting recommendations/lists by genre and platform, you reach the actual features of the game. Any restrictions we could attempt to place on these are going to be fully arbitrary and subjective - there's really no concrete and universal concept to what features are of more value, how many features is too many, and how smaller feature scopes compare to larger feature scopes. So it is unreasonable to restrain these effectively.
I suppose my goal at this point is to then trail on to discuss how the expected volume and maintenance needed to properly support repositories will both tax the people who have to keep them maintained, and will also split our purpose up too much. I would also probably reiterate the part where it's a focus on Q&A that will distinguish us apart from other sites, not trying half-successfully to accomplish too many things at once.
Its a good point
The idea if we try to do everything we'll end up doing nothing
Exactly.
The SO maxim that "No question is too trivial or newbie" applies to us as well. It's a matter of what we can reasonably support as a Stack Exchange site.
But I still feel I have no clear idea of what measures we're going to take in order to accomplish those goals and what effect those measures will have on the userbase.
Trivial or newbie isn't the issue here, its the 'question' part. Somethings are not really questions
03:19
That was my point. It's not a matter of elitism, but simply what we can support as a focused Q&A site.
The question of elitism does keep coming up in regards to "experts," which was what I was mainly asking about. For example, @tzenes said that by supporting the [game-rec] tag, we would be turning off potential experts for the site.
I think that's a different point than grace is making
I realize it is, and that is the point I was asking about in my question.
Experts is a loaded term. I'll refer you to my comments on the thread of concern you originally linked.
Expertise in building repositories is a matter of throwing in experience you have had with no necessary backing but the fundamental "rightness" of staying on-topic
A game recommendation covers a whole different concern than curiosities or problems provide. It's a matter of what to do when not gaming, basically. For the most part, people look for new games because they either completed the game they were just on, or decided it wasn't worth the effort to complete.
Again, though it's not completely the subject of my question, I agree with @Oak here. chat.meta.stackoverflow.com/chats/message/70716?offset=120
03:29
Because of the support necessary to handle repositories, people will have to devote a good portion of their time towards their maintenance, which means we end up with a lot of focus on people coming to our site because they're done with games.
As far as Oak's opinion, @Fallen, I once again iterate that what constitutes a good quantity of features/elements to make a list is extremely arbitrary. People put different amounts of value on different criteria, some will see it as more than sufficient for only 3 "big" features in their eyes.
We already got enough "Their question is still open, mine's just about as restrictive, why is it closed?" before we had this nebulous "too broad" system. It really isn't going to solve anything in my opinion.
To go back to game recommendations and "post-gaming-conundrums" as I'll call it, a site filled primarily with lists of games and such looks a lot less like a site people come to for gaming help. To me, it would look a lot like people don't care as much for the site in terms of getting help while gaming, just as a place to return when you're done.
I mean, at 90+ game rec questions, how many of them have actually had a person come back to us about the game they were recommended?
I don't think we could measure that anyway seeing as there's not really a way in the system to accommodate that but that's neither here nor there.
The answer is in the single digits, if we have any. I've been watching this.
Just check the [game-rec] tag, see all the authors, and see how many new tags we got from those lists.
I would love to start recommending games like Wild ARMs, Mana Khemia, Bunny Must Die, Lethal Application, Suguri, Trigger Heart Exelica, and a host of other games. But what am I going to get out of it if the people just take the recommendation, play on their own, and don't bother to return with questions?
And that's in the situation that someone might like the suggestion I throw out. When you compare to how voluminous the lists will traditionally be, then there's going to be even chance that there won't be any pickers except from the upvotes of people who have already played and probably completed the game.
03:49
Watching Grace argue is kind of like sitting in a Zen garden. All my problems seem to disappear and everything feels right with the world.
I know I've found several of the [game-rec] questions to be very useful and have favorited them for stuff to play. As I understand it, I guess I'm in the minority in feeling that there is worth and usefulness in those questions even if they help only a few people who have the same question rather than in a broad scope.
So I guess I'll just discontinue my feedback in that regard.
I don't disagree that people will find recommendations useful
I just don't think we will succeed well trying to field both Q&A and recs at the same and attract experts for both.
Right now, I'm playing Elona, which wasn't even recommended in the answers but was the inspiration to seek a new game in the question.
Well I'm going to go and do some more gaming, myself. Perhaps I'm just the wrong kind of user for this site; I guess I'll have to rethink my commitment. I appreciate your taking the time for this discussion and sharing your insights and opinions.
Or maybe just use the site when you have gaming questions?
I meant more in regards to the backend/community-related stuff. :)
04:01
I think having people of both perspectives is valuable. Remember, I'm pretty much just a user the same as you.
@FallenAngelEyes I'm not sure how much community involvement gaming.se really requires
This isn't like a forum where you need to show up everyday
On the contrary, I think the community of the site is very important. Whether intentional or not, a community has already formed and will continue to grow and I think that it something that needs to be taken into account.
I'm not disagreeing with anything you just said, only the level of involvement required
We have a divided community, unfortunately. What this division implies, it depends. My hope is that we are capable of resolving the division so that we can keep the most of both halves.
I think we're still small, and we will continue to grow regardless, but if this isn't resolved soon the fraction will become large
04:09
Indeed.
Agreed
Anyway all, thanks all for the discussion. Ping me if you need me, gonna go hack n' slash a bit.
Later~
bye fallen
04:39
Sleep time. G'nite
night grace
05:30
morning :)
morning ivo
05:56
oh my what a discussion that was @tzenes
took me nearly 15 mins to read back from when I left
haha
how far back did you go?
way back till like 23:00 last night (EU time)
so that's like 9 hours back
I love it when Grace discusses
you can't argue with such clear logic ;)
it's very zen
been starring a lot of comments :P
though I'm not sure what to say about the experts
guess it's just an overused term
I think its been abused sufficiently
06:05
yes we need experts here to answer questions in their guru fashion
but we still need newbies coming in asking genuine questions
and just because your new to a game, doesn't automagically make you stupid!
people tend to mix those things up
children always ask the best questions
well I guess that goes for gamers too, if you're new you question everything
because you know nothing
well, I'd say that the presence of experts attracts people, but we still need good questions to attract those experts
but like you said the term has become ambigious
and I actually agree you need the Jon Skeets of this world
and not just for the fact they know answers
but how they write them down
they can make any answer sound like a well thought out blog post
and makes you feel like, darn! why didn't I think of that
not just experts at gaming, but experts at answering
every site has a couple of those users eventually, some people grow into those roles
but it would be awesome to attract some more
like that day[9] guy would be awesome
Sean Plott
one sec let me try him on twitter
06:12
woops I misclicked, shut down Chrome :P
too obsessed about my ipad games :P
I should ask some questions about them perhaps
though I already looked up pretty much everything I needed to know :(
which is why I suck at asking questions
go play more difficult games :)
I have that problem too
I look for the answers before asking the question
hehe, even then @ArdaXi I will theorycraft/research until I know what I have to do
technically, google isn't a requirement for questions, seeing as we want to be a knowledgebase
and once I know it, I loose interest
06:15
but of course Google will often be faster
I had this problem with SO too
I used SO mostly for questions that were really hard to Google, for which Jon Skeet was really useful
too often I'll find the solution online
I don't have any real Super User questions, because I live in this small paradise where I fixed nearly every problem I had :P
I've never hard a question for Super User that wasn't already answered
06:16
I guess we three aren't the target audience for asking questions then ;)
sadly
in the beginning it would be a race against the clock, googling to get the right answer in first
I actually only have one question on Gaming.SE, and that's not even my own question
now the level of questions are so strange, I feel i cant answer any of them
I have 4
that's a good sign Ivo
06:17
I seeded it a little bit :P
but only questions I had interest in
I should put some new effort into this one: gaming.stackexchange.com/questions/178/…
I already know what I would do
just not if it's the best
and yes @tzenes it's probably good that I no longer can answer questions
that means they're good questions
but I also feel sad for it :( because I know there's also a LOT of windows/Office etc questions out there, I could answer
but we no longer attract those users
if those come, they ask feature-requests
I tried to ask you somethign the other day
but you weren't on
I had a registry key I couldn't delete
ask now :P
drove me nuts
well eventually I figured out it had no permissions
06:21
computer at work?
which even root can't remove on windows
yeah
I didn't know they defaulted to no permissions
as opposed to the everyone/noone scheme they have
you can use a linux live cd to delete anything
but you were asleep
just a little more complicated
this was on windows
06:22
you can edit the registry from linux?
though I suppose that's true
yup which is why linux couldn't care less about it
its data in the fs like any other
well if the file can be found somewhere
yeah, I had the fully qualified path
but this drove me nuts for like an hour last week
06:23
or use something like unlocker (I think)
it won't delete while it's running
but before windows starts
not nearly as annoying as the bug I had yesterday where the server used a stricter set of rules than a fully qualified URI
it kicks it out
hey, what's a good program to see my process tree on vista?
one of the sysinternals tools I guess
06:26
8
A: How can I see processes running in Windows 7?

bill weaverWhat you want may be satisfied by Task Manager (Ctrl-Shift-Esc), but in case you (or others reading this) want more information, another option (not built into Windows but supported by Microsoft) is Process Explorer from the Microsoft SysInternals suite. It is way more useful if you want to do mo...

exactly ;-)
guess that's all im good for now
remembering past answers :P
for deleting the file look here:
perfect
8
Q: How do I delete a 'locked' file?

Ron TuffinOn Windows XP, When I try and delete a specific file it says : Cannot delete blah.blah: Make sure the disk is not full or write-protected and that the file is not currently in use. How can I go around this warning and delete it anyway?

I've been using Wholockme
06:30
yeah that works too
but sorry I have to close your questions as exact duplicates of those two
if you have any complaints please go to meta.chat.meta.stackoverflow.com ;)
haha
have you checked out this food and cooking site?
1,000 questions, 100% answered
Their top guy has 6k rep
jesus
I love it
but it's harder to cook in a foreign language
let alone answer questions
but you should see the amount of cooking books I have :)
well everything I try to cook now comes off that site
how are they now handling their recipe questions?
their recipe questions are actually not that bad
11
Q: How can I make my Ice Cream "creamier"

BarrettJMy ice cream doesn't feel creamy enough. I got the recipe from Good Eats, and I can't tell if it's just the recipe or maybe that I'm just not getting my "batter" cold enough before I try to make it (I let it chill overnight in the refrigerator, but it doesn't always come out of the machine looki...

4
Q: Different uses for avocado?

KyraI hear that avocado is really good for you and I want to try to eat more of it. Other than guacamole what types of food a recipes do you recommend?

06:37
I believe that if a recipe is sufficiently "standardized" such that it is practically a question on preparation, it should be considered on topic. For anything complex enough to have many different recipes, it is too difficult to manage effectively.
that's not a bad answer
well there are a couple closed ones
there always are
well it's missing a capital B
that should be closed anywhere
But mostly their questions are: what do I do with X
instead of what's a recipe for Y
hmm, sounds like game-rec
relatively that is
its a small portion of the recipe questions
06:39
what I like best is the atmosphere
everyone seems happy
and I think that statistically everybody get's more upvotes over there
like this:
6
Q: Is there a formula for converting pancake batter to waffle batter?

KiesaI have a wonderful pancake recipe that I would like to convert into a waffle recipe. Is there a generally accepted formula for doing this? Based on other recipes I've seen, it looks like the amount of oil is the main difference. Would more flour or other ingredients need to be added to compens...

nothing recommendation like about it
that is a serious baking question
exactly, it's a good SE question too
it has only one possible answer
And there are no questions like: "I really like Pancakes, what's a good food like that?"
wow someone linked this over there: fridgetofood.com
oh man this is the best:
5
Q: What do you do with salt pork?

Chas. OwensI have always been intrigued by salt pork at the store. Yesterday I saw salt pork sliced like bacon and couldn't resist buying it. I tried cooking it like bacon, but it did not turn out as I had hoped. What should I do with it?

Instead of a series of recommendations, its a discussion on the common uses
06:41
:72008 that link makes me hungry
can you imagine if our game-recs were like that
that's not really a discussion
I'm looking for a good rts. Well your standard rts is collect minerals build building, build units...
yeah, its not a discussion
its the correct answer to a question
it's mostly a list of different answers with no discernible pattern
perhaps we should add a glossary question like they have
to at least help people use the right terms
rts? hold on boy! there are differences between rts's
first make your pick THEN come back and ask your question
06:43
no, read this @Arda
7
A: What do you do with salt pork?

PulseSalt pork is usually used primarily as a flavouring for a dish. It's similarities to bacon are really just superficial as it generally contains a lot more fat and it's not smoked. Essentially, when used for cooking, the fat is rendered down to form a rich base for the ingredients that will follo...

The guy asks what to do, and he explains how it is used
what a great answer
such an answer is like saying: stop, you shouldn't be doing it like this, do it like this and your problem is solved
because literally there are a billion recipes with salt pork
yes
oh man, I'm so jealous
that question looks well underway of listing all billion to me
no, those other answers are garbage
could happen to any question
but that first one: pure gold
well underway? the last answer is more than 2 weeks ago :P
06:46
I just created an account there to upvote that answer
he deserves it
he already got mine
though I generally upvote a lot more liberally than others :P
2079
Votes
up vote
2074
down vote
5
only 5?
which 5? I'm curious
btw @tzenes any idea if you can get one of those ipad 3g cards from at&t after you've bought an ipad?
I probably do 10:1 up to down
either someone who was flaming against me
06:48
all signs point to no
or who was REALLY REALLY bad
its not just the card, the hardware is different
but since I'm a mod, I often edit, comment or delete rather than downvote
that salt pork question is making me hungry :(
uhm people are using the ipad from the US here with no problems
I'm just wondering if my family in the US could get one of those data plan cards for just one month
pay the 30$ or what have you, and enjoy 3g :P
06:50
wait, do you have a 3g ipad and you want to put in a card?
iPad 3G card is the same as a normal one, only cut up, right?
because there are two kinds of ipads
yeah it is and yeah I have
oh, ok
I thought you ment you had a wifi and wanted to get 3g
hehe, that would be some hacking :P
06:50
you can probably get a data-only card at more providers than only AT&T
you can probably pop one in
I haven't looked
like modding in the Verizon 3g into your iphone
although my approach would simply be turning my phone into an AP
yeah I just wonder if you can actually buy the card, if you didn't buy the ipad with them
well your iphone is carrier locked
you have to jail break it
if you have a 3g ipad should be possible
06:51
im not sure if my htc hero can tether actually
if you have a wifi, you're out of luck
:72071 data-only plans aren't restricted to the ipad
yeah, it can
you'll probably have to root it though
well, it works better rooted
what do you mistake me for? ;)
(I have a HTC Hero too, running 2.2)
oi! what flavour?
06:52
I bought a droid x last week, they announced droid 2 this week
those mother fuckers
VillainRom
I'm running ChocolateEclair 6 something
does the JIT help?
juan's going to kill my off-topicness
VillainRom is the best ROM for the hero
and yes you are f*cked @tzenes
in my opinion
also, this will probably work for you
06:53
I'm going to see if I can return it and get the droid 2
they helped me root it, with that awesome guide
well that's just pdanet isn't it?
since it's wired
oh, and you should totally be able to get a sim card while you're here in the states
oh right, wireless..
I'm holding out till after I get back from the states
I want to tether my phone to my ipad else
06:54
though why would I if I have a 3g slot
because then you can use a normal phone plan to do it
great @tzenes I don't mind if it costs 50$ just NEED internet
and you don't need a seperate plan for the ipad
anyway, aNetShare, which I just linked, came with villainrom
yeah att will sell you a data plan or even prepaid
villain or froydvillain?
06:56
by the way, VR comes in multiple flavours, depending on whether you want Sense or not (Froyo doesn't support Sense yet)
I prefer LauncherPro over HTC Sense anyway
pff I ditched my most of the games I played, since they also run on the ipad
so now I'm ready to ditch my phone too :P
plus if I make a titanium backup, I'm safe too
06:57
I can imagine seeing someone calling using an iPad
yeah, I used titanium backup to upgrade to 2.2 too, since I had to wipe
no, I mean I don't have to keep my phone up 24/7 to play those games and use it all the time @ArdaXi ;)
I'm not ditching Android
I'm selling my ipad to my mom after my road trip
the iDroid project will probably finish android for the iPad soonish anyway
:O
I wonder if I buy apps in the states
I really have to try to revive my iPod Touch 1G to see if it supports Android
if theyll work when I'm back here
06:59
alright, I'm going to bed
if you use the same itunes account here and there you can be 100% sure

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