The Bridge

committing sudoku

16:00

Why did people close it

This is literally a question that could be asked regardless if the game is out or not

GodEmperorDune

> "Questions about Game Design and Development are off topic. This includes speculative questions about developer intent, with respect to both mechanics and narrative. You might want to ask over at GameDev.SE, but be sure to read their FAQ"

committing sudoku

HOW IS THIS GAME DEVELOPMENT?

two bugs

The close reason is about narrative design

committing sudoku

since when did lore become game development

GodEmperorDune

it has nothing to do with the game being unreleased

two bugs

16:01

I don't necessarily agree and you'll notice I didn't VTC

badp

why did jQuery decide that it'd be cool to fuck with my things and turn {args: [1,2]} into args[]=1&args[]=2

committing sudoku

@twobugs Yeah, but I wonder what the others who closed thought

This is saying every lore question out there should be closed

since by technicality, only their stories can be answered by devs

two bugs

@committingsudoku They might argue this is something that we straight up don't know yet and is basically about future, unreleased content

badp

@committingsudoku you're asking about canon. Is there canon about this?

two bugs

I'm not sure

@badp There is Overwatch canon, yes

There is an actual storyline with a developed world

badp

16:02

@twobugs but is there canon about what he's asking about?

committing sudoku

@badp Someone said there's something in the official fanart or behind the scenes book

But I don't own it

I don't have the heart to pay 120 for it at this point

two bugs

@badp I do not know for 100%, but I don't think it has been explained yet

committing sudoku

If it hasn't been explained yet, all of a sudden the question should be closed?

badp

if it is impossible to answer a lore question without making shit up, then yes, it shoul dbe closed

that's how we've handled plot and lore questions for years

two bugs

Blizzard has indicated a desire to continually release some of these animated shorts

@badp To be devil's advocate, isn't "We don't know yet" also a valid response?

badp

16:03

@twobugs if it becomes unveiled later you can always reopen/reask

committing sudoku

@badp That makes no sense, as we have plenty of questions where the accepted answer is "Sorry, the game company has not released information about the question you are asking" and they are not closed

GodEmperorDune

@twobugs what are you going to justify it with? "I have read ALL TEH CANON and it's not in there?"

badp

it's impossible to prove negatives, but if 5 people think there's no answer, that's a strong signal than a "there's no answer" answer

committing sudoku

by extension, is asking of game mechanics that are not present the same as this

Not to mention, there's too many cases of people who VTC

without having played the game

or knowing jack shit about the game

Like I asked a question about Lucio's music

badp

@committingsudoku I wish this happened less, but you can vote to reopen after a vote to close

committing sudoku

16:05

and someone commented that "proof or it didn't exist"

So that's our stance then

Can't ask questions until the answer is released

Frank

@committingsudoku Yup

committing sudoku

then why ask the question

two bugs

@GodEmperorDune Sure, if there isn't a definitive statement

Frank

@twobugs Ew. No.

two bugs

Either way, this is another thing I don't really feel strongly about and I'm going for my lunchtime walk

badp

16:06

@committingsudoku If you're asking about some obscure thing, it can be useful, or if you want to save $120. But if you want people to make shit up for you, there's reddit

two bugs

I'm just trying to foster some discussion, but it doesn't look like it needs help in this case

committing sudoku

I'm pretty sure this hasn't happened before

Frank

It's happened a ton of times before.

badp

of course I myself cannot decide if every question should be opened or closed. You're asking why your question was closed and this is the most likely answer

KutuluMike

Listen, Gary’s not a hero. Gary got captured by goblins. Heroes don't get captured by goblins. #dnd #dungeonmaster https://t.co/QiA7Bjk59H

Tweeted by DungeonsDonald on May 15, 2016 at 7:12 PM

sorry to interrupt this rehashed argument, please carry on.

badp

16:09

@KutuluMike citation needed

next thing you're gonna tell me, heroes don't wear wigs

KutuluMike

Donald Trump said it. What more citation do you need?

Wipqozn

26

Q: When is it appropriate to close a lore question as "not addressed directly through in-universe sources"?

This is the text for one of our off-topic close reasons. However, I feel we've got a pretty serious problem with this close reason. This is popularly interpreted as "If the game (or series) doesn't tell you the answer, then the the question is off-topic." This is problematic, in my opinion, a...

Relevant.

badp

@KutuluMike [requirement for citation intensifies]

KutuluMike

Donald Trump knows his D&D. He wrote the book on it.

I'm a great Dungeon Master. I literally wrote the book on DMing. #artofthedm #DonaldTrump #dungeonmaster #DnD https://t.co/p355AuTuUQ

Tweeted by DungeonsDonald on May 18, 2016 at 5:16 PM

committing sudoku

@badp Except the highest voted answer says not to?

26

A: When is it appropriate to close a lore question as "not addressed directly through in-universe sources"?

It is never okay to vote to close a question because it is “not addressed directly through in-universe sources”, due to the inherent problems of needing to know the answer to the question (or at least that it does or does not exists) before voting to close. I made a similar argument here, in that...

Wipqozn

16:11

> It is never okay to vote to close a question because it is “not addressed directly through in-universe sources”, due to the inherent problems of needing to know the answer to the question (or at least that it does or does not exists) before voting to close

committing sudoku

0

Q: What does the '76' in Soldier 76's name represent?

Soldier 76 is Jack Morrison. After the death of Overwatch, Morrison was presumed dead when in reality he was in hiding. He raided multiple corporations that had profited from the downfall of Overwatch, and stole their tech, including his tactical visor and the Heavy Pulse Rifle he wields. How...

overwatch

Now I'm really confused; a meta post says "don't close if it fits criteria" and these 5 other individuals think otherwise

badp

"the inherent problems of needing to know the answer to the question (or at least that it does or does not exists) before voting to close" is perhaps the biggest mythical non-issue

committing sudoku

Maybe they don't read meta?

Frank

Yay, people don't follow meta! What else is new?

badp

11

A: Game canon questions which extend beyond the context of the story and its material

The main issue to me about this, is the degree of permitting questions whose only tie to the game is a mere "Is this confirmed or addressed at all in the canon?". If it fits within the logical or canonical context of the story or its setting, it can be a very sensible question. But there has to ...

people also do follow meta

anyway

you still asked me why it was closed, you didn't ask me if it should have been closed

I of course posted the answer that says it should be closed, and I still do strongly believe that

so I don't know what to tell you ~

committing sudoku

16:15

Eh, it's okay

Just frustrated

badp

fair enough

it's weird that something as simple as "you do have to know what you are talking about before you vote to close" is any controversial

KutuluMike

that's not the point.

badp

"NO I NEED TO BE ABLE TO DECIDE ON THE FATE OF EVERY SINGLE QUESTION ON THE WEBSITE, AND SO DOES THE ASKER"

KutuluMike

the point is, I as a user should be able to judge a question without knowing the answer.

badp

I think that is absolute horseshit

we have some strong rules that let you do that

KutuluMike

16:17

otherwise the entire user-moderation system is useless.

badp

the WHOLE POINT of the user-moderation system is that by outsourcing moderation you can find ~5 people who know what you're talking about

otherwise it would all just be in the hands of moderators

KutuluMike

why allow every high-rep user to VTC every question?

murgatroid99

@badp So, if nobody knows the answer, the question has to stay open?

badp

and you would be voting jack shit

GodEmperorDune

interestingly enough, @sterno's answer calls for the dev speculation text to be reworked (which it has) and @GraceNote's answer talks about NARQ and Too Localized, neither of which exist anymore

KutuluMike

16:17

why not require them to demonstrate knowledge of the tag, for example?

badp

@murgatroid99 seems reasonable to me

Frank

@badp ...hence why we have several close reasons because we can't know the answer.

badp

@KutuluMike that only works for the bigger tags once they have grown bigger

KutuluMike

@badp so if I asked a question about astrophysics and no one in gaming knows the anwser you can't VTC it?

MadMAxJr

Wow, this arguement is still going on?

badp

16:18

like me, you are trusted with a power in the hopes that you will click on the button only when you are reasonably sure

KutuluMike

@MadMAxJr slow day. nothing else happening.

badp

@KutuluMike we know for a fact that it's not about games, so we can close it no problem.

MadMAxJr

6 hours, 40 minutes to Overwatch.

KutuluMike

@badp then if I know for a fact that the queston is asking about something that is not answered in canon, I should VTC it.

badp

@KutuluMike yes?

KutuluMike

16:19

if there's a chance that the game may tell me the answer then that's one thing.

I'm not even saying that closed question was closed legltimately.

badp

well

I have to know that for a fact since my VTC is binding

Dragonrage

@MadMAxJr 6 hours and 40 minutes until other people start playing overwatch and making me jealous

KutuluMike

but I am saying that question is a bad example, because it may not qualify as 'not answered in-game'

badp

you merely have to be strongly confident about it since it takes 5 of you to actually close the question

committing sudoku

@Dragonrage Well, you could just play Legends of Titans instead

I hear it's a real Final Combat killer

Grace Note

16:20

Hm?

badp

@KutuluMike if you don't feel sure about it, by all means, don't answer and don't close?

Dragonrage

@committingsudoku I own Overwatch, I just am a responsible adult, so I have to do this thing called work while everyone else plays.

GodEmperorDune

@GraceNote sorry for summoning you, i was discussing an old meta post of yours

committing sudoku

@Dragonrage Oh, I thought you didn't have it. This is what I was referencing

badp

the whole point of outsourcing moderation is that you can get away without making calls you're not confident about

committing sudoku

16:21

imgur.com/a/Khf8Q

Dragonrage

just a tidbit for people interested in overwatch lore, Blizzard has stated that they are making up the lore as they go

KutuluMike

@badp I think we may be talking across each other.

@badp I'm saying that any scope policy that requires me to know the answer before deciding if a question is on topic, is a stupid policy.

GodEmperorDune

@Dragonrage they usually do

KutuluMike

you appeared to be saying that it was not, because that is a "mythical" issue

GnomeSlice

Petition beseeching Metacritic to stop using IGN as legitimate source of game reviews draws support of leading cultural thinkers worldwide.

Tweeted by DPRK_News on May 23, 2016 at 1:59 PM

lol

KutuluMike

16:22

but now it seems like you are saying the opposite of what I interpreted

Grace Note

@KutuluMike Because it is a stupid policy.

badp

@KutuluMike and I'm telling you that you are entitled to being wrong, but I do strongly believe that you should have enough knowledge about the subject matter to reach a conclusion

2

Grace Note

But that's not the same as "You have to know what you're talking about before you vote to close", to use what I think were badp's words earlier but I already scrolled back down and am too lazy to double check.

committing sudoku

KutuluMike

@badp but I don't need to be knowledgable about the subject matter to know if any of the other close reasons apply, so why is this one special?

Frank

16:24

@KutuluMike Welcome to my world!

KutuluMike

as you said, I can tell if a question is not about video games without knowing the answer

or that it's an id question without an artifact

or that it's opinion based.

Frank

If you have to know something about the answer before you can vote on it, we end up with crappy consistency.

badp

@KutuluMike it is special because people think you need to be knowledgable about the subject matter to know if the close reason applies, so no other close reason need you to be knowledgable about the subject matter

KutuluMike

why is this one policy special, in that it's ok to say "you can only apply this policy if you know the answer"

badp

think about it this way though

Lazers 2.0

16:25

0

Q: Pokemon Alpha Sapphire- Fabled Cave not working

On Pokemon Alpha Sapphire I've been trying to collect the legendaries but it's not working. Some of the spots to find them are missing and sometimes the battle won't initiate. I'm currently having this problem with Zekrom. I can get to the place, even though it doesnt show the mirage spot but i...

pokemon-oras

badp

why is it that when you get 3k on gaming, you can't vote to close on stack overflow?

Frank

@badp That's just an argument for wholesale one way or the other.

badp

network bonuses are already a thing

Frank

Leaving it in the middle means this happens.

GodEmperorDune

@badp because SE didn't make the network bonus high enough

badp

16:26

but somehow you never get a bump to 3k everywhere

Wipqozn

I think we should just ban all questions

badp

@GodEmperorDune maybe that's because you need to have some knowledge of the subject matter before you VTC

KutuluMike

except id questions.

Wipqozn

Then we wouldn't run into problems like this

badp

just maybe.

Wipqozn

16:26

@KutuluMike itg.stackexchange.com

Frank

@Wipqozn I like this idea. Ensign, make it so!

KutuluMike

and minecraft programming questions.

GodEmperorDune

@badp nah i should be able to farm rep on a site where its easy to get rep then go wreak havoc on all the other sites where its hard to earn rep

KutuluMike

those are ok

badp

I've always been working to minimize the number of cases where we can VTC without looking. This hasn't necessarily been very successful.

murgatroid99

16:27

@badp Reputation isn't subject matter knowledge. It's a measurement of how much the site trusts you

Frank

@badp Or, perhaps, it's to ensure you have an idea of what SE does, and the current site's scope.

badp

@murgatroid99 but if it trusts you on gaming why doesn't it trust you on stack overflow

@Frank but if it trusts you on gaming why doesn't it trust you on stack overflow

murgatroid99

@badp Because those are different sites

badp

it's just a matter of reading the meta, right?

Frank

@badp Because we don't all follow the same rules.

badp

16:28

you don't need to be super experts in videogames to apply the game-rec rule.

you just need basic english.

GodEmperorDune

@badp but something like opinion based on gaming is going to be different than opinion based on workplace

GnomeSlice

store.steampowered.com/app/356420

badp

if you truly were supposed to VTC questions about stuff you didn't know about, you would be able at some point to VTC network-wide

Frank

@badp Apparently you do, as we regularly have arguments about them.

GodEmperorDune

@badp so are you speculating about SE developer intent now?

badp

16:29

@Frank some askers are more stubborn than others.

Frank

I gotta admit, while I don't agree with it, @badp makes a compelling argument.

GnomeSlice

I wrote something for no reason and it felt fucking great. “How to Win in L.A. (Just give up.)” https://medium.com/@BridgetPhetasy/how-to-win-in-l-a-just-give-up-62a85dfd9294#.swxd57i48

Tweeted by BridgetPhetasy on May 22, 2016 at 9:27 PM

badp

@GodEmperorDune does SE know what your network rep is? yes it does. Is it used anywhere? Yes, on chat.

Grace Note

@GodEmperorDune Is this a request that I should say stuff now?

Frank

@GraceNote You should always say stuff.

badp

16:31

@Frank dawwwww

Private Pansy

The new Steven Universe episode "Steven Floats" is about [spoilers]! Who'd have thunk that?

GnomeSlice

normal stuff that looks dumb in vr dot tumblr dot com https://t.co/2wpf9i9uFo

Tweeted by internetofshit on May 23, 2016 at 4:16 PM in reply to internetofshit

Frank

Seriously.

GnomeSlice

hahahahaha what even

Frank

Say, "stuff"

Grace Note

16:31

Too bad. From now on I'll say "things"

Frank

...booo.

GnomeSlice

we can still stop this https://t.co/Lr3FDKc5r3

Tweeted by internetofshit on May 23, 2016 at 4:24 PM in reply to internetofshit

Wipqozn

@GnomeSlice No we can't

It's too late

There's no hope

GnomeSlice

Can't get the gif out of the first one to post it

here we go

Dragonrage

so i checked my work email this morning, and there was 234 unread emails from the build server

GodEmperorDune

16:35

@Dragonrage y u break build

badp

@GnomeSlice if we do this for generations we might even grow wings!

that's how it works yes?

KutuluMike

@Dragonrage is your build server trying to sell you boner pills?

GodEmperorDune

@badp yeah, just grind it out

eventually your skill in wings will level up

Dragonrage

@GodEmperorDune i mean, i cant even run builds, i just have to fix the stuff that is breaking the builds

@KutuluMike no, apparently someone was running builds and rebuilds all weekend.

every time a build starts, it sends me an email, and every time it fails/succeeds it sends me another email

GnomeSlice

gearblocksgame.com

GodEmperorDune

16:38

@Dragonrage so configure the build machine to only email when it breaks

Grace Note

I like @badp's analogy towards network-wide privilege levels. It's not a direct parallel, but the concept can still be extended and applied on a site-wide level within the different scopes inside of the site.

Dragonrage

@GodEmperorDune i dont have access to that, only my bosses do

GodEmperorDune

@Dragonrage so get urboss to change it

or ask why it emails everytime instead of when you actually need to look at it

Grace Note

Meanwhile I think it's time for my periodic check on tags on Arqade to see if anyone even asks questions about the games I play.

two bugs

@GraceNote I have a similar problem :(

GnomeSlice

16:42

VR gifs

two bugs

I like lots of Vita games and nobody even owns a Vita

Grace Note

@twobugs I actually...

bought games from a Steam sale

4

two bugs

?!?!?!?!?!

Grace Note

...recently, which almost had hope but nope there's nothing on the site.

GnomeSlice

@GraceNote Oh, you're on Steam now?

Lazers 2.0

16:42

1

Q: Prisoners not Using Phones

Long story short, my Prisoners' Family need is very high. I have built a phone booth room, but no Prisoners are using it! Picture coming soon. Here is a quote from the PA Wiki: Prisoners will use phone booths during Free Time regardless of what room they're in, so long as the room is not ...

prison-architect

Grace Note

@GnomeSlice I'm still mooching.

GnomeSlice

I'm sorry

two bugs

I was going to ask a question about Demon Gaze but there isn't even a tag

badp

@GraceNote :o

GnomeSlice

@twobugs Make one

two bugs

16:43

I mean yeah, I could make one... but that means it's not likely to get answered :P

Grace Note

@GnomeSlice I'm still mad about how Steam is designed and how years ago I've bought the equivalent of a Board Game and I can't actually play it with the people who live in the same house as me without buying 3 additional copies of the board game.

GnomeSlice

So?

@GraceNote I'm not a huge fan of steam in some ways too

Grace Note

Well, site search was a bust. Let's see if any of y'all even talked about any of these games I bought, ever.

Nope. The only person who has mentioned any of these games ever... WAS ME.

Frank

@twobugs I do, I do!

two bugs

IF it's any consolation I bought a burrito yesterday and I asked for no lettuce but they gave me lettuce AND sour cream anyway

badp

16:46

@GraceNote here, have this complimentary arqade-themed scarf and sweater

two bugs

I still ate the burrito but it lowered my enjoyment by half of a point

Grace Note

@twobugs I own a lot of Vita games but I don't have a Vita yet. Does that count?

two bugs

@GraceNote This is highly irregular but I'm going to allow it

I'm interested in some of the recent vita releases like Sword City and another one I can't remember the name of

Oh, Severed

Severed looks really, REALLY cool

Grace Note

The recent games I got were Helen's Mysterious Castle, Tobari and the Night of the Curious Moon, and Rabi-Ribi.

two bugs

Is Rabi-ribi the rabbit metroidvania? That looks cute

I don't think I've heard of the others

Grace Note

16:50

It is. It's cute and also a very well designed exploratory game.

They knew how to make this kind of game and they did a good job at it.

two bugs

The Vita gets a lot of bright and colorful dungeon crawlers which I heartily approve of. Love dungeon crawlers

(Granted, they're no EO replacements, but still enjoyable)

Grace Note

Tobari's a nice platformer that is more of a stage, puzzle-based kind of thing. Takes a lot of inspiration from the nature of Kirby games.

Helen's Mysterious Castle is an interesting one-char RPG with a simple gimmick type of battle system, but that, too, is well executed. Short, alas, but I don't think it could've gone longer without exhausting what makes it so good.

GnomeSlice

@GraceNote have you heard of Wings of Vi?

Grace Note

Yes

djsmiley2k

yo yo yo

my monitor arms are here :O

Private Pansy

16:53

So, for the @stupidhackathon I made an app that orders delivery to a random location, and ubers you there...

Tweeted by chromakode on May 15, 2016 at 8:22 PM

two bugs

@GraceNote Oh, I know this game! I think it's on Steam, too

It looks cool

Private Pansy

@djsmiley2k Did you remember to order some monitor legs too?

Grace Note

Why would you need arms on your monitor? Did you need to install something so that other people can punch you through the internet?

Private Pansy

It'll be kind of awkward for them to only have arms

Grace Note

@twobugs All 3 were bought at the same Steam sale for about $25.

djsmiley2k

16:54

@PrivatePansy already got some, monitor head is on the way and then monitorBot is complete!!

Dragonrage

@djsmiley2k then it will rise up and oppress you

djsmiley2k

oh, so like my boss? XD

GnomeSlice

Ben Shapiro on indoctrination of America's youth in universities

►

Private Pansy

djsmiley2k

yes!!

Dragonrage

16:55

@djsmiley2k imagine your boss + @badp; annoying, oppressive, and you wont be able to understand it

your boss being annoying and oppressive

GnomeSlice

@PrivatePansy That's cool. What is it?

Unionhawk

monitor arms, I assume

Dragonrage

and @badp being completely inconprehendable

Unionhawk

geddit, a monitor with arms?

badp

@GraceNote SirTapTap put Rabi Ribi on my radar too, though I'm not sure I know what the combination of platformer and bullet hell looks like

GodEmperorDune

16:56

@GnomeSlice i do like cspan, but this is 3 hours and watching for 3 minutes has my blood boiling already

Unionhawk

@badp I... what

Grace Note

@badp AMAZING

GnomeSlice

@GodEmperorDune cspan?

badp

@Unionhawk yes.

Grace Note

But I'm fond of the style and that, too, is a department they built around and it's all the better for it.

Unionhawk

16:57

@badp I can't even comprehend what this means

I am incapable of comprehending this

GnomeSlice

@GodEmperorDune Also Ben Shapiro is far less inflammatory than the other speakers I've linked, for what it's worth

badp

@Unionhawk you know mario

Unionhawk

Sure, yes

Grace Note

@Unionhawk It's a platformer but the gameplay has elements of dealing with storms of bullets.

badp

@Unionhawk you know bullet hell bosses

Unionhawk

16:58

Hmm

GodEmperorDune

@GnomeSlice its a public channel in the US that shows unbiased political content, like government hearings and such

GnomeSlice

That sounds cool

badp

it sounds like the end result is a bullet hell boss turned 90 degrees so it shoots left instead of down

two bugs

C-Span is a good public service thing

Grace Note

Introducing "bullet patterns' into normal games is not a novel concept on its own. Plenty of games have fights that deal with this sort of stuff. But it can become very, very clunky if it's not really designed with that as an intent.

two bugs

16:58

It's just not always interesting

GodEmperorDune

@GnomeSlice it is but tbh it gets pretty boring to watch for a long period of time

badp

though it probably also shoots right

two bugs

(That's not C-Spans fault)

Unionhawk

C-Span more like ZZZZZ-Span AMIRITE

badp

and down

GodEmperorDune

16:59

@twobugs no its not

Unionhawk

(yes I am right)

badp

and up

GnomeSlice

@Unionhawk Zed Span?

hue

two bugs

Dragon Ball Zed

Chippies

HAPPY SOULS

►

GnomeSlice

16:59

Rabi-Ribi - Official Trailer

►

Grace Note

Rabi-Ribi, meanwhile, is designed with the fact that this is a bullet hell game, just in a platformer as well. So it works to accommodate both, which also expands the ability for it to execute both jobs.

Unionhawk

@GnomeSlice ZZZZZZ as in, snoring, as in, boring because who wants to watch a government hearing (other than just not me)

SaintWacko

@GnomeSlice ZEDZEDZEDZEDZED-Span

GnomeSlice

@Unionhawk Nobody sounds like Zeeeeeeeee when they snore

badp

@SaintWacko are you snoring very slowly?

Transcript for