The Bridge

Mana

13:03

@badp So if that number doesn't mean the number of times that the edit was approved, why the heck put (0) next to the edit button?! WHAT DOES IT MEAN?????

badp

@Mana It does mean that, but it can't be 1 on Gaming

Mana

Oh, okay.

user30

yay interesting stats

user30

12161715 calls to #termify for one iteration of said algorithm

Mana

man...Jeff said we're his least favorite site...? Really...?

Lazers

13:06

0

Q: How can I win the Seacrest Tour event in Need For Speed: Hot Pursuit?

How can I win the Seacrest Tour event, or at least get bronze? I've tried this event many times, the best I've managed is 4th. I'd particularly like help on these specific points: Which car should I use? The Bugatti Veyron looks the best option from the stats, but should I try something else? ...

user30

@Mana Yar.

Mana

That bugs me, maaaaan.

TheQ

@Mana Are you surprised? The way he's responded to some of the meta posts in the past is kinda insulting.

Grace Note

@Mana The site itself, not the people behind it. Our actual userbase has done a lot for the site that he is very happy to see.

Mana

@GraceNote Yeah, but it doesn't matter if the site's still shit in his eyes, eh?

Grace Note

13:07

His beef is more with the entire concept of a Gaming site at all (and some issues with tags).

@Mana That's a, um, very harsh way to put it.

Mana

heh, fair enough

Grace Note

Also I think that's a bit hyperbolic to what he said, as well.

Mana

Fair enough. I'm sorry.

I didn't listen to the podcast yet.

I should also probably wake up first.

EMOTIONS. WHY DO I HAVE THEM??? rips out emotions and becomes a robot

user30

so the idf part is taking ages. :(

Mana

International Diabetes Foundation....?

user30

13:12

inverse document frequency

Mana

Oh, okay. What are you working on?

user30

Document similarity

user30

anyway, added some memoization, cut running time by just over a half. still taking a minute for each comparison, so it will be done in 21^2 minutes, or 7 and a half hours

user30

joy.

user30

I should probably run this on my desktop actually, I wonder if it still has that botched together install of ruby

StrixVaria

13:15

Stupid link syntax! I can never remember whether the () or the [] come first, and which one should have the URL and which one should have the text. Arrghhhh

user30

[text](http://example.com)
•

StrixVaria

Yes well I can't see the markup.

user30

﴾͡๏̯͡๏﴿

StrixVaria

I mean, I know it's one of the permutations.

I just can never remember which it is while I'm trying to write a link.

Eventually I just settled on left-bracket FAQ right-bracket, which is a handy dandy link.

And also I don't know how to escape things in this ridiculous markup language either, so I'm leaving it like that.

Grace Note

Square before curve

StrixVaria

13:19

Huh?

Oh yeah, @ThomasMcDonald addressed it above.

Mana

@GraceNote That's not a good way to remember it, it needs to rhyme with something!

StrixVaria

Even if I remember that, I won't remember whether the URL or the text comes first.

We need a limerick.

Grace Note

@Mana I'm going to rhyme you with your own demise

Mana

Square before curve, but always after mumbles urve

@GraceNote I didn't realize I was that harsh earlier! :(

StrixVaria

With square before curve, links you can serve!

4

/Yoda

Grace Note

13:21

Alternatively, I secretly loathe rhymes with such intense passion that the mere suggestion I should follow such verse is an affront to my dignity.

Mana

@GraceNote Wow, that's intense.

Grace Note

Also entirely untrue.

Mana

Oh.

user30

unfortunately, this seems to think that all documents are similar to each other

Mana

@ThomasMcDonald :(

Grace Note

13:23

It was an alternate possibility, but there is no essence that an alternate possibility is a fact.

Mana

@GraceNote That is so deep.

Lazers

0

Q: I can't think of the name of an old pc kids game

I'm afraid I don't have much to go on but Google and ClassicPCGames.com have failed me. There was this game I would have played well over over ten years ago. There were 3-4 different level you could play on, each level had a bunch of different animals you could play as and the goal was to go scre...

pc identify-this-game 90s names classic-games

Grace Note

@Lazers Graffhkablinag!

badp

Well, he did add a few details

TheQ

There's gotta be a better way to curb these kinds of questions.

StrixVaria

13:26

Off topic :D

Just a suggestion.

badp

/nick Mana

u r off-topic

/nick badp

TheQ

Osnap.

Grace Note

Bear, shark, owl, deer, and rabbit aren't even part of the same food chains!

TheQ

Maybe he meant landsharks

StrixVaria

I think owls could eat rabbits...

Grace Note

13:29

Those eat cows, which means we're still in different food chains.

badp

Wait, rabbits eat cows?

Grace Note

No, landsharks do

badp

Oh, okay.

Grace Note

They tend to attack livestock. It's a bit of their schtick.

TheQ

+1 for use of the word schtick.

badp

13:30

Yeah, but they've got significant vulnerabilities to regular sharks in the wrong scenarios

StrixVaria

@Mana Don't forget to award your bounty for this...if you're satisfied with the only answer you got for 300 rep...

Mana

Done.

Grace Note

Aye to that

badp

Aww, I was about to answer "Your question is bad, your bounty is bad, you should feel bad and award the bounty to me."

Mana

So like...what are we going to do about ITG...? Start up another meta poll?

badp

13:32

Doing that means another victory for 'no never' in 90% likelihood

Mana

I really hate the idea of that but I can't see any way to do it that won't just piss the rest of the community off

StrixVaria

If it's 90% likely for "no never" to win, shouldn't "no never" win?

Grace Note

@Mana I think hosting a poll is more likely to make anger than otherwise.

Recall how our last poll went.

Mana

@GraceNote Oh, believe me, I am recalling.

StrixVaria

That was mostly because one answer was inane and getting votes.

badp

13:33

No, it's 90% likely to "no never" to win in a poll because as we've seen last time polls tend to do that.

StrixVaria

You can't glean a tendency from one occurrence.

badp

They tend to polarize towards "yes always" and "no never"

Mana

But like...idk, what do we do then? The only other solution I see is for us mods to simply make the decision and act on it.

StrixVaria

Those are the only easily enforced options.

Grace Note

You need a reasonable "midway point" in order to have a functional one. If there exists a functional midway point, please, I recommend suggesting it.

badp

13:34

let's look at it this way, do we already have an--- yeah, a midpoint to vote on already?

Would we be voting on anything? Do I have to come up with something? :P

TheQ

Yes you do @badp. Get to work.

Grace Note

You don't have to, no.

badp

Nevermind we've already set up a few minimum quality remarks that are being easily enforced by the community

StrixVaria

I've just been voting to close ones that are blatantly bad questions and doing my best to ignore the ones that are only mostly bad questions.

Grace Note

Is there a chance you could approach this less sour and sarcastic?

badp

13:37

Are you talking with me Grace?

I could ignore the topic entirely given that I don't feel strongly about it either way, yes

It just doesn't feel like the right thing to do in my position

Grace Note

Aye, I am. I don't think sarcastically scathing about our policies is really going to be constructive if you think they're not right.

badp

My generic view is that if somebody feels the need to create a site to be the Gaming's Programmers then we've failed as a site

StrixVaria

I'm not vehemently against them if we can come up with some guidelines for quality either. I just don't see value in them. To me, ITG questions are 100% clutter.

badp

That said, I don't think ITG and game-rec would be such a fundamental part of this site

@GraceNote I'm just thinking back at our last poll and why it kind of failed in my eyes

Grace Note

@badp This has yet to happen

badp

13:39

@GraceNote I'm glad!

Grace Note

@badp Which was?

TheQ

@StrixVaria That was more of my original point when I commented on the above question. There's a quality issue.

badp

The game-rec one

Grace Note

No, I meant, what did you think was the failure point?

badp

Remember the whole discussion on that answer we had to remove?

Yeah, the failure point is we didn't like know the choices in advance

StrixVaria

13:40

@TheQ Even if we come up with guidelines for quality, I personally will still not find value in these questions.

Except the one I asked, which I'm all for closing and deleting if need be.

Grace Note

Aye, we didn't.

badp

We didn't vet what the reasonable policies could be, so that we could have something solid to vote on that isn't just "yes always" or "no never"

I'm not saying that just because I wasn't a mod back then mind you - I would've spoken my mind if I'd realized this

Grace Note

I didn't think that was your motivation, no.

Powerlord

@badp @AnnaLear might take offense to that.

TheQ

@StrixVaria That's fine, I can see both sides of the issue in terms of for and against ITG. I wasn't trying to argue against your point there. Simply that quality needs to be a guideline in the case that it becomes a clearly accepted concept.

Grace Note

13:41

It's something I personally stated before, during, and after the poll, as well.

Anna Lear

@Powerlord @badp yeah, that's kind of not cool, though I appreciate the point.

StrixVaria

@TheQ I agree. If we decide on firm quality guidelines and accept ITG as a reasonable kind of question, I'll enforce whatever consensus we come to.

Grace Note

Without devising a midway point, we can't really work on it, though.

StrixVaria

Even if it's of no value to me.

TheQ

Likewise.

Anna Lear

13:43

FWIW, Literature SE is in the process of figuring out guidelines on book recommendation issues. Check out the meta for details. I don't know if they'd translate easily to gaming, but still.

badp

@AnnaLear I didn't meant to be offensive, but as you guys have shown us, non objective questions have their own place in a Stack Exchange site. The question becomes... do we need two separate places?

Grace Note

My issue with game-recs, mechanically, is that we have been completely unsuccessful in devising a functional and non-conflicting midway point, which is why we only have our "yes always" and "no never" policies, which is why the latter wins much easier.

badp

Yeah, we already do have a middle point here: "yes, but give us the decade, the platform and a few other vital details"

Grace Note

Identification is an entirely different beast because it is an orthogonal issue. I can't apply my understanding of game-rec unto them, which is why I cannot definitively say the presence or absence of a midway point.

@badp Then that sounds like we should propose that. There doesn't seem to be a hole or confliction in there.

badp

and that's what we as a community have been enforcing so far if I'm not mistaken

@GraceNote I thought the whole point was that wasn't enough. The question that just got asked did all that.

Grace Note

13:45

@badp I didn't say it was problematic on that end.

Anna Lear

@badp That's a good question to ask. I personally don't think Gaming is big enough in scope or busy enough to start splitting things off.

badp

Well it's still leaving people moaning... but according to our current policies it's more or less fine. (It didn't pick a genre to be honest, but it sounds like a platformer.)

Grace Note

I kinda ragemumbled because I personally tire of the frequency that I keep seeing them, but quantitatively speaking they aren't in enough volume to have destroyed the site.

Mana

@GraceNote If it makes you feel better(not that I thought you were in a bad mood or anything) I feel the same way!

Grace Note

That's my own personal opinion, not what I think the site should take direction in.

badp

13:48

You know what's the next thing we could do - require people to provide some kind of doodle about how the game looked

Grace Note

Graphic details are the one thing I ask people the most to provide, because so many people don't bring those up.

Yet, visual bias is such a strong component of human attention. It boggles me.

TheQ

Wont we run into the issue of "points being awarded due to quality/quirkiness of the artist's skills" then?

Mana

Would we have to retroactively close all ITG questions that don't have a doodle?

badp

We Grace did go back and close all game-recs...

Mana

@TheQ True, and the last thing I want is for a bunch of ITGs to become the highest-voted content on the site.

badp

13:50

I also actively close those that I stumble upon/get flagged and didn't get the tag

Grace Note

@Mana Technically, we should always be retroactive on our policies

badp

Yeah, when Jeff talks about 'grandfathering' I always kind of mumble 'hm, bullshit'

Grace Note

Like badp loathes seeing the site splitting, I will loathe anything inkling of grandfathering we could possibly run into. I will not stand for a "cower" button.

TheQ

@Mana I don't remember the particular question, but there was definitely one that Grace addressed on meta where it was fairly obvious that the points for the question were simply coming from the drawing(s) attached...

Anna Lear

If you're going to change a policy, I highly recommend going back and closing old questions to match the new rules. That will save you a lot of pain down the road.

especially questions like ITG where either the right answer was provided and the problem is solved so who cares if the question's closed, or it wasn't provided and the unanswered question is now clearly against the rules.

Grace Note

13:53

We really do need to eventually rifle through all of the old identification questions and, in accordance with our current policy, actually do some enforcement.

Mana

@GraceNote I know, I wasn't so much raising that as a problem, I was just asking.

badp

Grace Note

But... much like link fixing... that's always a lengthy endeavor

M'vy

You seem to have been busy @Grace :P

badp

Nah, that's just normal epic for Grace.

Mana

14:00

@badp @Grace Before I forget and just so you're aware, there was some spamming of a dubious screen recorder software by a couple new accounts last night, so I destroyed them.

Brant

@AnnaLear +1, as demonstrated by Programmers.SE after the site focus changed

Gotta ----fix----close those broken windows.

Dammit, markdown!

badp

@Mana Aww, that's what we have the Spamminator for!

(meh, don't use him if you don't feel like it.)

Mana

Oh, right. Whoops? :(

Grace Note

@Mana Destruction is always a fine answer.

user30

The Spaminator, Monty Python's Flying Circus

1 2

Mana

14:02

@GraceNote Somehow I was under the impression that it was to be saved as a last resort, even in situations like that, so I was rather hesitant to do so.

Brant

Banned until the heat death of the 32-bit unix timestamp. That's rough.

Grace Note

@Mana Spammers are the number one utility of destruction.

Brant

Hmm, no wait, that's on Jan 19 '38.

M'vy

The spaminator has two badges XD

Guess no spammer ever collected more than 1 or 2 badges :P

user30

awwww yeah

user30

14:15

from 140 seconds/iteration down to 15 seconds/iteration

user30

now it's almost manageable

Powerlord

@ThomasMcDonald Doing what exactly?

user30

@Powerlord Mostly string comparisons.

user30

294,899 of them to be exact

user30

but before I was doing a lot of unneeded string manipulation

badp

14:23

Somehow I don't feel relaxed

StrixVaria

I remember playing that.

I forgot what it's called.

badp

Osmos

A2-4

Lazers

0

Q: If there are only 4 or 5 types of games, what's next?

I am not a gamer, perhaps because I find that all games seem the same. It is as if the huge potential that I imagined from games never came to be, and they are stuck in a rut. But I was watching a video about game development and the guy said that all games fit into 4 or 5 basic types. My questio...

multiplayer role-playing-game

StrixVaria

Someone gifted it to me on Steam. I played for a while, then forgot about it.

I remember levels like that being the reason I stopped.

badp

Well it's a lot like that Katamari thing, except you can lose

Matthew Read

14:36

Today is the 15 year anniversary of The Elder Scrolls II: Daggerfall. Download it for free on elderscrolls.com! http://t.co/HeNpjmz

Tweeted by ElderScrolls on August 31, 2011 at 2:21 PM

2

Lazers

14:51

2

Q: Do we need a classic-games tag?

I saw this ITG question today and noticed that it was covered in tags, which isn't unusual for someone's first question ... but also that one of the tags was classic-games. Isn't this just a variation on old-games? (See this previous meta discussion.) The questions currently having that tag don...

discussion tags

badp

@MatthewRead Is it that game from Notch?

2

Wipqozn

@badp lolololololololol

Yi Jiang

@badp My goodness yes it is! Amazing, and free too!

Powerlord

@badp rolls eyes

Weird Al must like Lady Gaga. His latest album had both Perform This Way and Polka Face on it.

Wipqozn

15:08

Weird Al is still making music?

Powerlord

@Wipqozn Yes. His latest album, Alpocalypse, was released a few months ago.

Besides which, you know he's still making new music, if only because of this video

►

Also, thanks Google for your stupid "rewrite the URL on click". I remember now why I keep your search engine usually script blacklisted.

Which means I have to unblacklist Google every time I try to access GMail.

badp

Can't you just whitelist mail.google.com?

CruelCow

15:29

If a question title contains a spoiler, site policy is to leave it in there and just tag it spoiler right?

Wipqozn

ISn't that counter productive?

Unless they have some special behavior, wouldn't the user see the spoiler in the title in the active questions list?

Powerlord

@CruelCow I thought we still removed them from titles, and that spoiler was to mark questions that had spoilers in the body (you know, before you open it)

CruelCow

Hmm, let's search meta

3

Q: Proper usage of spoiler tag?

It's been noted that spoiler tags should be used only(?) when the titles contain spoilers, but I'm noticing that the tag is also being used to note that there are spoilers in the content of the question; here's a recent example. Since we don't have any official site policy on how the tag should ...

discussion tags spoilers

Wipqozn

which question?

CruelCow

I haven't posted it yet

Arda Xi

15:35

@Powerlord Polka Face isn't Gaga-centric though.

Wipqozn

Oh okay. Gotcha.

@CruelCow You should avoid the spoiler in the title if you can.

CruelCow

I'd ask if it is possible to save a certain character in Deus Ex 3. Obviously the title would reveal that this person will (can?) die

Arda Xi

@CruelCow Please try to avoid spoilers in question titles though.

Wipqozn

Ah I see your problem. It can be tricky to make a title without mentioning the person.

Anna Lear

@CruelCow I don't know if I'd call that a spoiler. We already had a few of "How do I defeat X" or "How do I save X" questions.

Arda Xi

15:39

Today is the anniversary of one of the most dangerous pieces of software ever created. Also the Brain.A virus.

Powerlord

@ArdaXi True, only the first part of it is.

Arda Xi

It had Baby in there.

@Powerlord Only 30 seconds of a 4:45 song.

CruelCow

@AnnaLear Well I would have preferred to not have known, but I might be extreme that way. I stopped reading reviews once I knew I was gonna get it.

Wipqozn

@ArdaXi feels stupid Which software?

StrixVaria

Spoiler: Spoilers increase enjoyment

Lazers

15:46

1

Q: How can I get the potion in "Many", level 72 of Spelling Jungle?

I'm starting to wonder if these potions are reachable at all, but apart from these 3 I've managed to get every other one in the game so I'm hoping that I'm just missing something. Anyways, this time it's the red "L" potion near the center: I haven't been able to find a way to push the rock to...

strategy spelling-jungle

Powerlord

@ArdaXi Are you sure its Windows anniversary? ;)

Arda Xi

@Powerlord XP.

Wipqozn

@ArdaXi ah there we go. I thought you meant Windows, not a specific version.

Arda Xi

Oh, wait, that was last week.

I misread the tweet.

Wipqozn

That clears of that confusion

StrixVaria

16:21

3

A: What does backdoor mean in strategy games like DotA or LoL?

Actually soloing a tower while teamfight takes place on other lane is a matter of tactics. Backdoor is when you start attacking enemy tower without your creeps near that tower.It oposes to term push which means to help your creeps clear path to enemy tower. Minor backdoor happens often when pus...

This is mind-blowing.

How can they ban backdooring?

Why not just ban killing enemy champions?

Ban killing creeps.

Ban killing neutral minions.

You know, if one team kills the big neutral monster, the other team doesn't get the bonus from it!

That's not fair at all.

We should just ban winning, while we're at it. Save ourselves the time playing such an unfair game.

Raven Dreamer

16:38

@StrixVaria that's why you just play LoL!

StrixVaria

Exactly!

Which is why I didn't know the name of "the big neutral monster" in DotA.

I just know there is one.

Raven Dreamer

Roshan

It's how Baron Nashor got his name.

The one is an anagram for the other.

StrixVaria

Easy to remember now.

Thanks

Raven Dreamer

♪ The more you know. ♪

Powerlord

Sounds like various parts of the US Government are going to try to block the AT&T/TMobile merger.

Justice Department and FCC specifically.

Grace Note

16:50

Heh

Y'know, Raven, I don't recall that we've actually gotten to match with each other yet

We see each other online and we chat but we're never matching.

Raven Dreamer

Matching?

@Powerlord - yes, I got an email from Barney Frank about that. Something about AT&T lying about something or other.

Grace Note

@RavenDreamer As in, play a match together.

Raven Dreamer

I think that's true.

Grace Note

In League of Legends. That game you and Strix were talking about nigh minutes ago.

Raven Dreamer

@GraceNote That's what I assumed, but I thought I'd double-check anyway.

At any rate, I'm on campus currently, so not able to play. I've got class in a bit.

Grace Note

16:56

Psh, campus is where gaming lives

Raven Dreamer

No, campus is where game design lives. At least for me. I think I've mentioned this to you before.

Which reminds me - @GraceNote - have you ever worked with unity?

Grace Note

Game playing is a critical component of game development.

Hejudas, I had a huge fail-zone block for like, months, because I stubbornly focused on development and didn't touch any of my gaming stuff.

Powerlord

I'm... not the only dev here who has chosen to not focus on game design?

Hopefully?

Raven Dreamer

@Powerlord you are on the gaming chat.

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