The Bridge

Frank

17:00

@Batophobia Some things happening outside the game are fine, I feel. I don't know where that line really is.

I just think calling this a video game is misleading.

There is zero interaction going on with it. Input number. Wait. Hope you got lucky.

Batophobia

@Frank How is that different than incrementals?

murgatroid99

@Batophobia because those are interactive

Frank

@Batophobia There are actual mechanics involved. Things you can test, feedback you can receive.

Batophobia

"Purchase upgrade, wait for money"

Frank

This is jamming a number into a black box. Which will eventually spit out a yes or no. It's a social experiment, not a game.

Batophobia

17:03

Well, my best attempts to play devil's advocate are depleted on this one

Frank

That's helped me solidify my view on this, thanks.

I've voted to close it as off-topic.

murgatroid99

@Frank same

Batophobia

Using abilities count as clicks?

Arperum

The whole thing smells like self promotion too.

Frank

@Batophobia Yep

Arperum

17:05

@Batophobia yes.

Batophobia

That's lame

especially when they have keyboard hotkeys so they are literally the one thing you can do without clicking

Lazers

0

Q: Do the shields of Magic Weapon Deflection and Dominance stack?

I'm using Magic weapon Deflection and Dominance (passive) at the moment but I'm not really sure whether they stack. In other words: Do I get more shields this way, or is one skill just wasted here? Please provide some form of prove with your answer, I'd like to be sure, not to speculate/discuss.

Arperum

@Batophobia Upgrading heroes and switching levels does not break idling.

upgrading/leveling even.

murgatroid99

@Arperum The question is kind of baffling

> The rules are sooo complex ....

Yuuki

So... thinking about getting Hyrule Warriors.

Batophobia

17:06

Not really

Frank

@murgatroid99 Huh. I had missed that. I had thought it was people who knew each other.

Batophobia

@Yuuki Yes

do it

it's great

Frank

@Yuuki Doooooooo iiiiiiit.

Yuuki

What is this "Hero of Hyrule" pack?

Frank

There's network mode (which you have to turn on), that can help you get stuff in Adventure mode.

@Yuuki Season Pass for it.

I think.

Yuuki

17:07

@Frank Can I get it if I buy the physical copy?

Batophobia

I've still not finished it

Frank

@Yuuki Should be able to, yes.

Arperum

@murgatroid99 And the accepted answer from someone who is obviously the dev. doesn't answer the question "how do I find what othert numbers people put in?"

Yuuki

@Frank Does that mean there's internet co-op?

Frank

@Batophobia Neither. Just finished the Link arc.

@Yuuki I don't believe so, no.

Yuuki

17:08

@Frank ... Ew.

Frank

@Yuuki Just local co-op.

Batophobia

@Frank I blame Smash Bros for distracting me from Hyrule Warriors

Wait, local co-op?

Frank

@Batophobia I blame working on models.

badp

Mid-week last week tonight

►

Frank

@Batophobia Yep. You can play with friends.

Yuuki

17:09

@badp Wasn't this like two episodes ago?

Batophobia

That sounds like something I'll need to do now

badp

@Yuuki It was uploaded today

murgatroid99

@Arperum Yeah, that seemed pretty weird too

Frank

@murgatroid99 And who's obviously monitoring it, based on the quick comment.

Batophobia

Getting Libertas was the greatest thing to ever happen in this game

GnomeSlice

17:11

my roomate just brought me home a donair and it was pretty much the best thing I've ever eaten

Batophobia

@Arperum We've had devs answer questions before

murgatroid99

@Frank It did take almost an hour to answer. That's not that suspicious

StrixVaria

I really need to finish the last couple missions in Hyrule Warriors.

Frank

@murgatroid99 I meant the comment itself.

Batophobia

@fredley answered questions on his game

murgatroid99

17:11

@Batophobia The problem is not so much that he's the dev as that he doesn't really answer the question, but it's accepted anyway

Frank

After voting for the close.

murgatroid99

@Frank Didn't even notice that

Powerlord

Yes, it does sound a lot like self promotion

Arperum

@Batophobia But the question of his games did not contain a link to his fucking SO profile, and then some randomly unnamed gamelink.

AND his profile includes a link that he made these games, this ALmo doesn't have that.

Batophobia

Alright, I'm done doing devil's advocate for this one

Frank

17:16

@Arperum To be fair, that was someone else that added those in.

Batophobia

He also didn't ask the question

GnomeSlice

Almo

1.2k 5 23

udk unity game-design c++ physics project-management quaternion

The guy who made the edit is also from gamedev.se

seems like one of their users' games.

We let @fredley post about his shit here, why not this guy?

Arperum

@Frank Oh great, another low rep user who seems connected.

murgatroid99

@Arperum Wait, what? I don't see a second almo?

Arperum

@GnomeSlice because this is not a game.

GnomeSlice

17:18

Pip, United States

614 2 19

python revenue triangles unity 3d algorithm c#

@Arperum Sure it is.

Jason Berkan

You guys would do great on a conspiracy theory show.

2

Frank

We're currently discussing this in the Bridge. If you guys want to come talk about it, you are more than welcome. So far, the whole thing smells like self promotion. — Frank 15 secs ago

StrixVaria

@GnomeSlice This is even less of a game than "guess the number of jelly beans in the jar" is.

GnomeSlice

Still a game.

Frank

I wasn't even touching the self promotion aspect. I'm referring strictly to the, "Does this really count as a game?" aspect.

Powerlord

17:19

I need to go get lunch, so I guess when I come back I'll see if entertainment breaks out.

murgatroid99

@StrixVaria I'd say it's almost exactly as much of a game. You choose a number, and then you either win or lose based on information you don't have

GnomeSlice

I pinged @Almo in GDSE chat

StrixVaria

@murgatroid99 True. So they are equally not games.

murgatroid99

@StrixVaria exactly

Arperum

@GnomeSlice Ya well, new game: Guess the amount of candies I'm going to eat tonight. Person who guesses closest to the actual number, but not the number itself and noone else guessed that number wins. I'll inform the winner next week.

murgatroid99

17:20

I was the second close vote, I don't disagree with that

Batophobia

@Powerlord throws table

GnomeSlice

@Arperum Not a video game.

in Game Development, 11 secs ago, by Almo

@GnomeSlice I'd rather not get in a fight about the question Wardy put up about my game while on work hours. :)

Arperum

@GnomeSlice Answers have to be posted here in the chat.

Batophobia

@Arperum -15

StrixVaria

@GnomeSlice If you wrapped that same exact thing in a .swf it still wouldn't be a video game.

murgatroid99

17:20

@GnomeSlice What if he makes a website where you put in the number?

Arperum

There, now it's a video game. Because the input has to happen on a site.

Batophobia

@StrixVaria If you added graphics?

GnomeSlice

in Game Development, 15 secs ago, by Almo

if they want to close it because it was a dumb question (Wardy put it up as a joke referring to my trouble getting people to understand the game), that's fine

in Game Development, 19 secs ago, by Almo

but it's a game

There you go.

Arperum

@GnomeSlice So is mine.

murgatroid99

@GnomeSlice Saying something is a game doesn't make it a game

Jon

17:21

What is it then?

Rapitor

@murgatroid99 what makes it a game?

Batophobia

@murgatroid99 It is a game just as playing a slot machine is a game

murgatroid99

"Emacs is a game" Now can I ask questions about emacs?

Frank

@Jon A social experiment.

GnomeSlice

Then just close already, jesus christ you guys

StrixVaria

17:22

@Batophobia Slot machines where you literally just pull a lever and see if you win money are not games.

Jon

Social Experiment... ah ok.. thanks.

murgatroid99

@GnomeSlice I'ts been closed for 5 minutes

Batophobia

@StrixVaria Then replace it with blackjack or poker or craps, those are games

they also require social elements

StrixVaria

@Batophobia And they're interactive.

Young Guilo

Does Anyone here play MCA or Ocean Craft?

Frank

17:23

@Batophobia And those have enough complexity and interactivity to form strategies around.

StrixVaria

(Disclaimer: I don't actually know the rules of craps, but poker and blackjack are interactive.)

Sterno

Yesterday the vending machine gave me a Diet Coke that expired in May, 2013. Today it was improved... the Diet Mountain Dew expired a mere two weeks ago

GnomeSlice

@YoungGuilo Never heard of those.

Batophobia

@StrixVaria So is inputing a number

Sterno

Progress!

Frank

17:24

@Sterno Conclusion: Diet Mountain Dew is more popular than Diet Coke.

StrixVaria

@Batophobia Setting the random seed and watching a series of events unfold is not interactive.

Young Guilo

@GnomeSlice I would highly recommend Minecraft Comes Alive. Grab a wife.

Sterno

@Frank Vastly so. In fact, the only reason I got at Diet Coke yesterday was because the Diet Mountain Dew was out

StrixVaria

And if there's a "series" of events that's even better than what this offers.

Batophobia

@StrixVaria That's not what is happening, it's more like price is right

Frank

17:25

@Sterno Wait, what, they're stocking it with expired products?

Batophobia

lowest without being duplicate is the winner

Sterno

So, after the vending machine guy heard me complain the diet coke was 1.5 years expired and the diet mountain dew was out, his solution was apparently to put expired diet mountain dew in the machine

murgatroid99

@Batophobia Still, the only interaction is input a single number, and output a boolean. It doesn't really matter how that boolean is obtained, it's still not interactive

StrixVaria

@Batophobia It's like the price is right if you weren't given any information on what the item you're guessing the price of is, and also you don't know what your opponents guessed. I guess. But the restrictions there remove the game elements.

Batophobia

@murgatroid99 Then your definition of interactive is different

Sterno

17:26

@Frank Yeah. Hooray

Batophobia

@StrixVaria They just hide them better

GnomeSlice

IndieGameStand has wishlisting now.

murgatroid99

@Batophobia Then what is your definition of "interactive"?

Frank

@Batophobia Less hiding and more broadening the scope.

Batophobia

@murgatroid99 Pressing a button during a cutscene is considered "interactive"

Frank

17:27

@Batophobia If it affects the outcome, it is interactive.

Batophobia

@Frank Which is what makes the complexity of the game

@Frank and the number you input affects the outcome

Frank

@Batophobia Complexity comes from systems in play. There is no system here.

It's just input number, receive an eventual win/lose.

StrixVaria

@Batophobia Are you talking about quick time events? Those require timing.

Batophobia

@Frank No, the systems are social instead of in-game. It's like knowing when to bluff in poker

Frank

@Batophobia Which take it entirely out of the realm of a video game.

GnomeSlice

17:28

in Game Development, 15 secs ago, by Josh Petrie

It doesn't need to degenerate to this level of argument. :|

lol

Batophobia

@Frank Which is agreed, but it is still a game and has a system

murgatroid99

@GnomeSlice Yeah, you going into other chat rooms to bitch about people in this one behind their backs is hilarious

Frank

@Batophobia It's only a game in the purest technical sense.

GnomeSlice

@murgatroid99 I went there to ask @Almo to come in here for the discussion.

Frank

Bingo has more interaction than this.

GnomeSlice

17:30

►

Batophobia

True, but as a developer, they should be working down to the core mechanics, which in this case was purely social

Frank

Also, yes, @Gnome, quit making personal attacks. Or I will flag.

murgatroid99

in Game Development, 2 mins ago, by GnomeSlice

he loves to bitch about things other people in the community do

StrixVaria

@GnomeSlice Calling out individuals behind their back is not really very upstanding behavior.

murgatroid99

Yeah, that's just asking

user4704

17:30

I think this is getting a bit out of hand.

GnomeSlice

@StrixVaria Funny you should mention that when you guys were talking about @memescientist the other day when he wasn't here.

Batophobia

@StrixVaria Exactly what you'd expect from the Bridge

GnomeSlice

@Frank Oh no, I've never been flagged before!

murgatroid99

@GnomeSlice You mean when he went to the main meta and accused mods of code of conduct violations without evidence? I think that was relevant here

StrixVaria

@GnomeSlice I don't think I've mentioned him even once since his banning.

GnomeSlice

17:31

Can't you guys just once let somebody post their stuff without turning it into a huge shitshow

Batophobia

@JoshPetrie It's really a discussion that needs to happen, we are a QA site about video games but we don't have an accepted definition of what makes something a video game

murgatroid99

@Batophobia you don't accept the definition

StrixVaria

@Batophobia Good point. Please make your points on meta, if you are going to make points.

Not just @Batophobia, but everyone still talking about this.

user4704

@Batophobia I don't have any problem with that aspect of the discussion; everybody is entitled to their opinion of what does and doesn't constitute a game and certainly on this particular site the definition of "game" should be topic of discussion/meta.

StrixVaria

If we need to define what "game" means to us, then do it on meta.

Batophobia

17:32

@murgatroid99 Offer the link to where we defined it

user4704

But I feel like the conversation is starting to trend dangerously towards the "personal attack" territory in both rooms.

GnomeSlice

If we have questions about curiosity, we should allow this too.

StrixVaria

@GnomeSlice Meta.

user4704

@StrixVaria I feel like I've seen a topic about where to draw the line about a "game" before.

Batophobia

@JoshPetrie I've not looked in the Game Dev chat, but feel free to flag anything offensive

murgatroid99

17:34

@JoshPetrie I think such a thing should exist, but I can't find it

Frank

@JoshPetrie I went looking. I couldn't find anything.

user4704

@murgatroid99 Yeah, me neither, I'm not super-familiar with gaming.meta though

user4704

Seems like a good topic.

Origami Robot

@JoshPetrie The only thing I can recall is about how to deal with electronic versions of physical games

Regarding personal attacks, remember that time I got banned for insulting myself?

GnomeSlice

@OrigamiRobot As me.

murgatroid99

17:36

The problem is that "what makes a game in scope for this site?" is very broad and will be difficult to answer completely

Frank

We allowed that whole Twitch Plays Pokemon thing. I still think that's not really a game, but there's enough interaction in it.

GnomeSlice

@murgatroid99 Also I hang out in that room all the time anyway.

murgatroid99

How about "What level of interactivity is needed for something to qualify as a game?"?

Frank

We're strictly about video games, no?

So we should really define what a video game is for us.

Wipqozn

I don't think any meta is going to work. It's just too broad of a question and there will be too many corner cases. I think this is a situation where we just need to judge things on a case by case basis.

3

StrixVaria

17:38

@Wipqozn Even if the meta just generates ideas and we still come to that conclusion, it's a discussion worth having.

badp

Question link?

Wipqozn

2

Q: How do I play @Almo's Pick a number game?

The rules are sooo complex .... He says I have to pick a number that noone else picks but I don't know what numbers other people picked so it's really confusing. Any ideas? Links: Almo's Profile The Game Prototype

almos-pick

user4704

Bah, too slow.

Jason Berkan

I think it is a bad question. I don't think closing it as "not a video game" is correct.

RPi Awesomeness

hmm...$50 1TB WD Blue.

Decisions decisions

GnomeSlice

17:39

in Game Development, 18 mins ago, by Almo

if they want to close it because it was a dumb question (Wardy put it up as a joke referring to my trouble getting people to understand the game), that's fine

badp

It... is a videogame

2

There's no doubt about that

murgatroid99

@badp clearly, there is

3

badp

Our rule about videogame implementation of boardgames and the such is that we only do questions about the videogamey part of videogames

like "how do I swap tower and rook" (or whatever that move was)

GnomeSlice

@badp see also curiosity

murgatroid99

@badp this isn't a board game

GnomeSlice

17:40

@badp castling

badp

@murgatroid99 Why is it not?

It's essentially all it is.

murgatroid99

@badp How is "guess a number" a board game?

badp

Well it's essentially the same.

Frank

In the strictest sense, this is an electronic version of a skinner box.

badp

Put signed card with number in box, then read out numbers.

Frank

17:41

Press lever, maybe get reward.

murgatroid99

Anyway, I agree with Strix that this should be moved to meta

GnomeSlice

What a waste of everybody's time.

badp

Iunno, it seems wrong to close it as off-topic.

Keep in mind that we've allowed questions about @fredley's own prototypes on the site

murgatroid99

@GnomeSlice If you think it's a waste of time, you could just not participate

Rapitor

@murgatroid99 the same thing will happen in Meta, I say continue the discussion here until we have an answer then CC to meta?

badp

17:42

so it seems weird to suddenly reject Almo's.

RPi Awesomeness

Curses. Why don't I spring on deals sooner

just lost the chance to get a $70 PNY Optima 240GB :P

badp

Sure, the question specifically sounds like an advertisement rather than an actual question

If it was flagged as spam I would be okay with it.

Wipqozn

@StrixVaria A discussion is always worth while, of course, and such a meta can be a good way to get people thinking. I just don't like the idea of trying to make a meta which will then be used to determine some strict and exact rule.

badp

That's essentially what this question is, at the end of the day.

Rapitor

@Wipqozn isn't that what meta is for? figuring out rules?

Frank

17:43

@badp There's not enough complexity actually inherent in the "game" itself to really qualify as such.

GnomeSlice

@Frank curiosity

murgatroid99

@GnomeSlice Curiosity is much more interactive than that

badp

@Frank Overruled; let's not try and define what a game is or isn't, or we'll never get out of it alive.

3

GnomeSlice

@murgatroid99 When I played it, it was 'press a few squares every day'

badp

I think the main problem here is that the question is a poorly veiled advertisement

Not self-promotion, but yet unsolecited advertisement

Rapitor

17:44

@GnomeSlice Curiosity alowed you to get powerups and strategize chains

GnomeSlice

in Game Development, 24 mins ago, by Almo

if they want to close it because it was a dumb question (Wardy put it up as a joke referring to my trouble getting people to understand the game), that's fine

badp

If the question was about actually doing something with this game, then it probably wouldn't have raised such a stink.

GnomeSlice

Seems more like an in-joke than advertisement

badp

@GnomeSlice Does it really matter? It's still not a genuine question.

Wipqozn

@Rapitor Sure, but there are times when you can't come up with a steadfast rule which is going to work. I feel like this is one of those times.

user4704

17:45

The question was intended as a joke (which is also a bad reason to post it; it never should have been posted). It's also a bad question, on its own -- I assume, at least, that "how do I play Diablo 3?" would be closed here.

Frank

@JoshPetrie Probably as Too Broad, I think.

badp

It reads like an ad, even if it's not intended as such.

user4704

Yeah, that would be my guess.

GnomeSlice

@JoshPetrie inb4 "omg i love diablo 3 all the upvotes"

SpartanDonut

It reads as a dumb question / trolling

badp

17:46

So I will flag it down as spam and handle it like that.

Jason Berkan

@JoshPetrie Click, then click again, then click 5,000,000 times more.

murgatroid99

0

Q: Is some level of interactivity required for something to qualify as a video game?

Video games generally have some level of interactivity, but some have very little. Do/should we require some minimum level of interactivity for something to qualify as a video game that is on topic here? This is prompted by this question, about a game with a minimal level of player interaction.

discussion off-topic-content

badp

JUSTICE STATUS: [ ] HANDLED [ ] STUMBLED [×] SERVED

murgatroid99

There, now we have a place to organize opinions about this

fredley

@badp Not prototypes I don't think

Unionhawk

17:47

@fredley best mod

Frank

@JasonBerkan Maybe press a keyboard button or two.

user4704

@murgatroid99 The link is dead for low-rep users now.

GnomeSlice

@JasonBerkan clicker-heroes

Jason Berkan

@Frank I've actually never played a Diablo game.

murgatroid99

@GnomeSlice Still a lot more interactivity

Frank

17:49

@JasonBerkan There's actually quite a bit of depth to it now.

GnomeSlice

@murgatroid99 Than diablo? I think not.

Frank

Also, @Gnome, quit with the Bridge bashing in GameDev; you don't agree. We get it.

murgatroid99

@GnomeSlice than the original question that started this conversation

Jason Berkan

@GnomeSlice I just turn it off and let it idle. Clicking is for people with time to waste.

GnomeSlice

@Frank Don't tell me what to say in other rooms, I'm not going to stop going to another room I like to visit just because you say so.

Frank

17:49

Address the points being discussed, rather than talking about us behind our backs.

StrixVaria

@GnomeSlice Seriously, though, talking shit about somebody is bannable, whatever room you're in.

GnomeSlice

I'm not talking about anybody behind their backs, although I did say something rude about you a while ago.

@StrixVaria Who am I talking shit about?

StrixVaria

@GnomeSlice @Frank.

Maybe not currently but you did do it.

GnomeSlice

@StrixVaria That was a while ago. Ban me for it if you must.

But I'm not talking shit about anybody currently.

in Game Development, 12 mins ago, by GnomeSlice

I have been feeling less and less comfortable with the community there for quite a while now.

Oh no! Bridge Bashing!

SpartanDonut

My observation is that Gnome stopped bashing people directly quite some time ago when first asked - Frank bringing it up again was unnecessary and just going to incite more argument. Can we just call it done?

Well perhaps not first asked but since he went into GameDev

I didn't read the whole transcript

Frank

17:53

@SpartanDonut Which directly led into the Bridge bashing that occurred.

GnomeSlice

Can we just for once deal with a post without turning some trivial thing into a huge shitshow

Frank

We should be sister sites; creating a divide between us serves nobody.

Unionhawk

I think calling it done would be best @frank

GnomeSlice

in Game Development, 14 mins ago, by Almo

I can't say I'm impressed if something got gangbanged for "not being a game" when clearly it is.

in Game Development, 13 mins ago, by Almo

Leaves me with no desire to contribute to that site.

Too late!

murgatroid99

@GnomeSlice Can we just try to figure out site scope without you complaining about it?

GnomeSlice

17:54

@murgatroid99 Never!

Unionhawk

At least he's honest

GnomeSlice

@Unionhawk Hah!

Frank

@Unionhawk I'm just saying; due to his actions, Arqade is being looked at as an unwelcome place.

SpartanDonut

@Frank that's false

Word would have gotten around eventually

Frank

in Game Development, 17 mins ago, by Almo

I can't say I'm impressed if something got gangbanged for "not being a game" when clearly it is.

Noctrine

17:56

GnomeSlice saying how he feel doesn't move anyone in the GD room.

badp

@GnomeSlice That's exactly what I did, yknow.

Unionhawk

And I'm just saying drop it

GnomeSlice

@Frank How is that 'my actions'?

It's your own fucking action

Noctrine

That message that you are quoting is directly related to Almo's feelings about his game being called not a game.

SpartanDonut

@GnomeSlice you told on them =/

Noctrine

17:57

And yeah, the best thing to do would be for both sides to let it go.

SpartanDonut

They were going to keep it a secret from Almo, obviously.

But yeah...

Let's stop (again)

Sepia Lazers

0

Q: Is a minimum level of interactivity required for something to qualify as a video game?

Video games generally have some level of interactivity, but some have very little. Do/should we require some minimum level of interactivity for something to qualify as a video game that is on topic here? This is prompted by this question (10K only), about a game with a minimal level of player in...

discussion off-topic-content

0

Q: What is the definition of a video game?

It's come time to discuss what we consider a video game. We need some clear points on what makes something fall into the realm of this site. Wikipedia's definition is: A video game is an electronic game that involves human interaction with a user interface to generate visual feedback on a v...

discussion site-policies

Brian

Guys, we have a much more important violation to concern ourselves with...

I thought about the invisible turtle.

Unionhawk

Goddammit of course the phrase "drop it" has no meaning in this room. I forgot.

SaintWacko

Damnit, @SepiaLazers, we're stopping!

badp

17:58

@Brian DEAR GOD.

Wipqozn

@Brian I'm not invisible anymore.

RPi Awesomeness

@Brian Oh that's bad. That's really bad

SaintWacko

@Brian Oh, how could you!

GnomeSlice

Buildanauts is up to $1,084

Wipqozn

That's a reference to when I changed my gravatar to a white picture so it blended in with the background.

user4704

17:59

When did Lazers become Sepia Lazers?

Powerlord

@badp I suppose you want the invisible turtle?

Wipqozn

@JoshPetrie Never. Sepia is for meta.

GnomeSlice

@JoshPetrie I'm wearing two pairs of pants.

2

user4704

oh

user4704

Carry on then.

badp

17:59

@Powerlord NO.

RPi Awesomeness

@Brian We may have to put you in solitary

Powerlord

@badp I suppose you want... the bucket?

Transcript for