The Bridge

5pike

15:00

@BenBrocka Yeah. Kids will find a way to get their booze.

Arperum

@5pike They've learned to ask for a card in the last couple years, because the penalty for selling to kids has been ramped up or something.

But they didn't 12 years ago.

SaintWacko

@Yuki Same here! highfive

Kevin van der Velden

@badp I've been in holland all my life without touching pot, beat that!

Ben Brocka

Anyone getting a Surface Pro 3?

SaintWacko

@BenBrocka Huh. That actually looks pretty nice

Ben Brocka

15:15

Price aside it looks fantastic. Enough it might justify the price, since I'm looking at a laptop replacement, would like to keep pen input if possible and dont' really like "dumb" tablets

Just wish they included the type cover in the basic price (why would you not get it) and had a few more options. I don't need 256 GB of storage, but I do want 8gb ram

want to hear more about the processor specs though. I'm not sure how to compare the i3/5/7 for mobile procs. Are they 4 core just like desktop?

SaintWacko

@BenBrocka Yeah, that would be nice

Ben Brocka

They seem to mostly get where Surface should fit in (laptop replacement with being a tablet as a feature, not a focus). They didn't even bother to release a surface RT 3. I don't think there's much point in that line anyway

Though they have a marketing issue. Most people still compare the surface pros to iPads and Android tablets, not midrange laptops

MS really should have done this a year or two earlier, before the idea of what a "tablet" was solidified and people decided it was okay to have a completely passive device

Krazer

@BenBrocka Why not lead the effort?

Ben Brocka

I doubt anyone would hire me for marketing

Frank

15:31

Well. THAT was fun.

SaintWacko

@Frank Oh? What was?

Oh, also, if anyone is on the fence about buying Transistor, do it

It lives up to the hype

Atmosphere is gorgeous, music is beautiful, great story, and the gameplay is incredible

Frank

16 hours ago, by Frank

Root cause: Our idiot salesperson brought in a laptop infected with Cryptolocker.

SaintWacko

@Frank Oh god

Frank

I think we've resolved the issue at this point. Now just doing cleanup and paperwork.

SaintWacko

@Frank And glaring at the salesperson every time you pass

Frank

15:34

@SaintWacko Well, no need for that. We had to confiscate the laptop, and are probably going to write it off.

And the higher ups will know what happened, and why.

Private Pansy

Pvt. Grichmann

@SaintWacko Is it as surreal as the trailer makes it look?

SaintWacko

@Pvt.Grichmann Yeah

Beautifully surreal

And the way the skills work is incredible

Pvt. Grichmann

@SaintWacko Eh. I don't really like surreal. Still buying it soon™.

SaintWacko

Just brilliant

It took everything that was fun about Bastion, and made it better

user15026

15:40

@SaintWacko I am still trying to resist it til I get paid again :P

Frank

I racked up a solid day's overtime yesterday.

Good for extra time, but bad for getting stuff done at home; all day yesterday was work. All I did was work, sleep, roll out of bed, and go back to work.

Chippies

@BenBrocka i3 is dual core, no hyperthreading, i5 is dual core with hyperthreading, i7 is quad core with hyperthreading

current gen i7 is approx the same performance as desktop i7 2 gens ago

Ben Brocka

oh that's weird. I was expecting it to be like desktops where i7 is only hyperthreading

Chippies

I would assume i3 and i5 are similarly powered to i3 and i5 of desktops 2 gens ago as well

Ben Brocka

that makes the i7 more valuable than expected...then again I do alright with a dual core on the current laptop

Chippies

15:51

really depends onw what you plan to do with the device

Fluttershy

@Frank And play 8 hours of Diablo 3. :P

Chippies

I got i7 on my laptop and I'm loving it, but I use it as my main rig

if you have a main rig and you gonna use the surface for "other" stuff, the i3 should be just fine

Frank

@Fluttershy Well, closer to three.

Ben Brocka

TBH probably mostly web browsing. If I game on it I suspect I'll be using in home streaming anyway so processing power is almost moot. I want responsive writing and browsing though

Frank

But I still was stuck at my desk, babysitting the process.

Chippies

15:53

you can game on i3, as long as there's a decent dedicated gpu

Ben Brocka

@Chippies hm really? I was afraid I'd have to go with i5 at minimum. But yeah I have an i7 4770k desktop

It's integrated graphics only (is the integrated graphics different?)

Chippies

@BenBrocka do you know what model of i3 surface has?

Ben Brocka

I've only ever looked and desktop i3/5/7s and only considered i7 because I need hyperthreading for vid editing

Chippies

@BenBrocka the difference between desktop i5 and i7 in gaming is minimal

i3 on desktops can handle pretty much everything as well

although i5 is better

as long as the integrated gpu is HD4600, it can do some fairly decent light gaming

Ben Brocka

yeah the i7 was just to squeeze out some more paralellism for encoding. Though with XB1 and PS4 more games might start using more than 4 cores

Chippies

15:55

I'm sure you won't be playing Crysis and the likes on it

Ben Brocka

"4th generation Intel Core i3, i5, or i7 Processor options"

Chippies

it should be HD4600, unless it's some low power version of i3...

here's some benchmarks of HD4600 (scroll down)

Ben Brocka

I was hoping they'd share more specs but they seem to be taking the Apple approach on the store microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/pdp/Surface-Pro-3-i3-64/…

Chippies

not sure if these specs are true, but if it does indeed have Iris Pro igpu then it's actually pretty powerful

Grace Note

@PrivatePansy This took a while to parse that she was asking for the moon and not to go to the moon.

Chippies

15:58

iris pro is on a similar level as GeForce GT650

badp

I hate pressing quick save when meaning to quick load

Chippies

which is more than enough for plenty of games

Ben Brocka

MS store makes zero mention of graphics (hd4XXX or otherwise)

Chippies

but I doubt any model other than i7 would have the Iris Pro

well, i5 and i7 has at least HD4600

Ben Brocka

oh really? definitely hoping to avoid that model

Private Pansy

15:59

@badp I did that in Civ V once. Undid an entire afternoon worth of the game

Chippies

some models of i3 have HD4400, which is slower than hd4600

Jason Berkan

@PrivatePansy No autosaves?

badp

Also I resent having to swap out the shock plasmid in Bioshock

now I can't hack turrets

Private Pansy

And it was complete unintentional, because I was trying to take a screenshot with F12

Chippies

HD4600 is around the performance of GeForce GT630, slightly slower than GT640

Ben Brocka

16:00

If it can do youtube 1080p and in home streaming at 1080p I suppose it's fine (can it stream 1440p if my desktop's monitors are 1080p?)

Private Pansy

@JasonBerkan The last autosave was centuries ago

Chippies

@BenBrocka any i3 can do youtube at 1080p

and I would assume you'd need to be able to run a game at 1440p on your main rig to be able to stream at that resolution

Ben Brocka

Well the gfx can surely handle 1440p (4770k and 6950) but I have 1080p monitors hooked up to it

Chippies

I suppose you could trick the game to think you have a 1440p monitor and just run it and not see anything on main desktop :P

it should be able to handle it, but it won't let you run at anything above 1080p unless you trick the game that you can support that resolution

I've never used steam streaming, but from what I've read, it basically just duplicates what's shown on the main rig to your stream device

Ben Brocka

Yeah. Eh 1080p should probably be fine. I don't even use it currently, would just like it to be an option

MBraedley

16:04

@Chippies It's effectively just VNC in fullscreen.

Chippies

@MBraedley yeah, that's how I figured it works

MBraedley

And since both machines are (presumably) on the same LAN, input lag is insignificant.

Ben Brocka

I WISH VNC ran as well as in home streaming...

though screen connect is tolerable

MBraedley

My VNC connection to our linux dev box at work is fine. There's some input lag, but not bad for development work.

Chippies

I run teamviewer across the ocean and there's not a lot of lag most of the time

MBraedley

16:08

But I use RDP at home for... reasons.

Chippies

but it's no good for games

Ben Brocka

It's like 10FPS and frequent lag here at work. Windows though

Screenconnect is better but not quite perfect. In Home Streaming is so good it's hard to believe it's streaming

MBraedley

@Chippies I could never get teamviewer to work in a manner I liked for adminning my HTPC

Ben Brocka

then again I'm VNCing to virtual PCs not a gaming desktop

Frank

@MBraedley At home, I just use RDC

Chippies

16:09

@MBraedley how so? You just install it, set it up for remote access, set up password and connect from your other machine

pretty simple

Frank

Though, I don't have an HTPC; I use a WD TV Live device to output to my projector.

Chippies

but Idk, RDP might be even simpler, I've never used it

badp

@BenBrocka That's patently absurd: Twitch probably streams at a decent framerate for you

Chippies

I just run an hdmi cable from TV to laptop, simple and cheap

badp

or, more accurately, you have to be able to do much better than that

Chippies

16:11

@badp twitch isn't necessarily "live" and no-lag

there's 20-30 second delay

Ben Brocka

I dunno our VNC software just seems bad. Screenconnect works acceptably so we've almost killed VNC, but not all PCs have SC installed

badp

@Chippies irrelevant: the network is still capable of streaming at 24fps or more

MBraedley

@Chippies Can't tell the client to use a specific resolution, and the quality of the server UI on the client was lacking. The only reason I wasn't using RDP to begin with was that I had Win7 Home on my HTCP and not Professional or Business or whatever it's called.

badp

Your "time to first byte" on Twitch is still way less than 30 seconds

Chippies

@badp idk how VNC works, but Twitch can sacrifice quality for fps

badp

16:13

Most VNC clients drop the desktop bit depth to 8 bits

Chippies

although 24 fps isn't a lot either way, but I'm sure the optimization is done different for twitch and vnc

Ben Brocka

VNC sacrifices a lot. It's occasionally happy to forget to refresh large segments of the screen

SaintWacko

@Chippies I wish they'd do quad core with no hyperthreading. Hyperthreading is incredibly annoying :(

So many things will only work on a single thread

So all hyperthreading is doing is cutting in half how much power it can have

See: Dwarf Fortress

badp

to be honest VNC is "optimized" for text

Chippies

@SaintWacko does HT actually use any of the power if it's not actively used?

SaintWacko

16:16

@Chippies What do you mean "not actively used"?

Chippies

@SaintWacko the virtual cores aren't used at the time perhaps? Idk, I'm not 100% sure how it works

Ben Brocka

Hyperthreading doesn't actually cut down on your power, if you're referring to the "CPU %" in task manager. It's basically, but not quite, a lie

OS will prioritize real cores over virtual cores, so hyper threading shouldn't be used at all until all real cores are in use but more parallelism is possible

Chippies

I've heard of major overclocking being done with some cores disabled

isn't that what the OS does anyway?

Ben Brocka

@Chippies yeah a single core will always out perform (on a per-thread basis) multiple cores, won't get as hot. but if you have any degree of parallelism isn't not very useful

GnomeSlice

GUH

Chippies

16:19

@BenBrocka but if I'm running a demanding single/dual-thread application, wouldn't the OS give more power to the stressed cores and take away from the less active cores?

GnomeSlice

Today's Listening | Electronic/Glitch/Dubstep

Ben Brocka

yeah a single thread will run faster if everything else is idle. Though having the program use all cores will still be faster overall

Chippies

@BenBrocka so, a quad core with hyperthreading wouldn't be noticeably, if at all, slower than a quad core without hyperthreading, right?

Ben Brocka

It should preform basically identically if the virtual cores aren't in use in either case

though an actual i7 is just barely faster than an i5 of the same type I think

Chippies

10 mins ago, by SaintWacko

@Chippies I wish they'd do quad core with no hyperthreading. Hyperthreading is incredibly annoying :(

this is what I was kinda referring to :P

SaintWacko

16:24

@BenBrocka Hm, interesting. I have a quad core, but the most DF will ever use is 13% of CPU power. I assumed that was due to hyperthreading

Chippies

@SaintWacko I don't think quad cores ever go above 25% in task manager

SaintWacko

@Chippies Right, exactly what I'm saying

Ben Brocka

The % of CPU power is misleading-- it assumes all CPU cores are equal, including virtual

SaintWacko

It should be using up to 25%, but instead it's using up to 13%, which I'm guessing is actually 12.5%

Chippies

~~it just means it's equally spread through the cores~~ nvm, was thinking something else

Ben Brocka

16:25

All that number REALLY tells you is dwarftress is using a single thread to the max. It wouldn't necessarily be faster if you disabled hyper threading, though that number would increase. it's a theoretical maximum

SaintWacko

@BenBrocka Oh, so if it's using all of an actual core, and the virtual core that normally runs on that core is off, it will still show as if it's only using half of the physical core?

Lazers

0

Q: International(Uncut) version of Wolfenstein The New Order in Switzerland?

As far as I know there is no law here that would forbid the use of the symbols which are forbidden in Germany and Austria. Steam says clearly that the available version is cut and just in German language. So why can't I activate the game in Switzerland* even if there shouldn't be a reason for th...

Chippies

I don't think windows knows the difference between real and virtual cores

they're all treated equally

Ben Brocka

yeah, the %s act as if virtual cores were real cores (which they're not).It's still running the process at the same speed it would even if it were a single core or non hyper threaded proc with otherwise identical specs

it's a rough measure

you can trust the OS to use the processor correctly (mostly) though. Like I said, it's smart enough to use all 4 real cores before even thinking about hyperthreading

GnomeSlice

If I uninstall steam to reinstall it, will anything I have downloaded get removed too?

It's not working on my laptop any more.

Ben Brocka

16:30

Save $30 on a new PS4 free shipping. ebay but looks plenty legit http://www.ebay.com/itm/PlayStation-4-Console/201094385441?customid=8d1df039de4f4846b073448218bc8b14&pub=5574652453&afepn=5335869999&campid=5335869999&afepn=5335869999

Tweeted by BenBrocka on May 21, 2014 at 4:29 PM

MBraedley

@GnomeSlice You should be able to say that you don't want the games uninstalled, but I'd still backup the games with Steam's built in functionality.

Ben Brocka

@GnomeSlice yeah I think it does that. Rename Steamapps or move it and it should be fine

Oh is there a "don't uninstall my games" option?

moving steamapps is easy enough though

GnomeSlice

I can't launch steam so I can't use that option I guess

Chippies

@GnomeSlice just remove everything but steam.exe and steamapps folder and let it re-download itself

MBraedley

@GnomeSlice Then yeah, use @BenBrocka's suggestion

GnomeSlice

16:32

now it's fuct

MBraedley

Just installing over the existing install might work too

Chippies

I think there might be some .dll's you might need to keep for it to work

installing over it is what I would do

Ben Brocka

yeah installing over existing shouldn't delete games...no idea if it lets you do that tho

Chippies

I think it pretty much does that every time it updates

MBraedley

@BenBrocka I've (kinda) done it before when reinstalling OS

Chippies

16:34

@MBraedley I think the concern would be that there's registry files saying that it's already installed

Ben Brocka

speaking of updates...is In Home Streaming out of Beta yet? I want to get off Mr Steam Beta's Wild Ride

Chippies

I don't think steam cares though

Ben Brocka

daily updates

MBraedley

@Chippies Simple: delete the registry (keys)

Chippies

@MBraedley seems like a lot of work, may as well uninstall steam

I'm 99.9% sure it leaves your steamapps folder intact, unless specified not to

MBraedley

16:35

@Chippies the keys was in parenthesis for a reason

Deleting the entire registry is easy

Chippies

I'm sure a lot of people would bitch and moan if they 'accidentally' lost all their downloaded games because they uninstalled steam

I have 415GB of stuff in my steam folders

that's more than some people bandwidth caps

GnomeSlice

I thought it didn't work before because my dad's work internet blocked it

but I'm tethered to my phone right now

because his workplace got rid of their guest wifi :/

Chippies

are you trying to create a giant phone bill?

GnomeSlice

We have 10GB of data a month

shared between my parents and I

badp

@BenBrocka heh

GnomeSlice

16:39

But I'm not sitting here for the next 4 hours with no internet

badp

$369.99 + $62.85 - (€ 399.98) = -113.692672 US$

($62.85 being what PayPal says it would cost to ship that here)

Chippies

@badp you might have to pay tax on receiving the item

badp

@Chippies hm, good point

(($369.99 + $62.85) * 1.21) - (€ 399.98) = -22.796272 US$

Ben Brocka

I've ordered from japan without having to pay customs/tax

dunno if EU is different

badp

Even if I pay VAT on shipping costs, I still come ahead

Chippies

16:41

@BenBrocka it also depends on price

cheaper items are less likely to be taxed

Ben Brocka

Was $90

GnomeSlice

ONE HOUR store.steampowered.com/app/263980

badp

I don't know if you need to pay VAT on shipping costs, though... no, VAT doesn't apply to shipping costs

Chippies

my friend from EU has bought some stuff in 90-100$ range and soemtimes they charge tax, sometimes they don't

@badp I think it's only on the item price

shipping is a service

well, idk, it just makes sense to me that you pay tax on the item only

badp

Well, the difference comes up to $35.99 then

Chippies

16:43

@badp what about warranty tho?

TylerShads

So Transistor was fantastic, just very short. Beat it in about ~5 hours.

badp

@Chippies hm?

I'm in Italy, I buy something IT from you, you have to give me 2 years' warranty free. AFAIK

Chippies

@badp yeah, but do you get any of that if you order from US?

I would assume not

badp

Apple was forced to give us 2 years' free warranty for free

I dunno though in general

Chippies

@badp but isn't that only if you buy from within Europe?

badp

16:44

Not sure!

Chippies

not to mention, if it breaks down, wouldn't you have to send it back to US for warranty?

Fluttershy

Oh snap. Roller Coaster Tycoon Deluxe, and Roller Coaster Tycoon 2 just got put on Steam. :3

Tim Stone

@badp Yeah, they do have a physical retail presence there though.

Chippies

in Europe warranty is pretty good, the warranty is seller's problem

badp

huh, actually Apple have 2 warranties

GnomeSlice

16:45

►

badp

One that's the bare legal minimum for 2 years and their "standard" for 1

I guess that's kinda fair, after all.

Chippies

@badp I assume the "standard" is for non-EU countries, where the legal minimum of 2 years is not enforced

badp

"Standard" being what I assume Apple gives, yknow, in the US and otherwise in general

The 2 years thing AFAIK is Italy, not EU

Chippies

@badp the 2 years warranty thing iirc is a EU thing

not just Italy

so I would assume they have to provide 2 years warranty wherever they sell their stuff within EU

@BenBrocka > the performance per clock has been improved by almost 10 percent compared to Ivy Bridge. Therefore, the i3-4100M is about as fast as the former Sandy Bridge model i5-2430M.

According to these benchmarks, the haswell i3 is approximately same performance as AMD Phenom II X4 (Desktop) 905e

GnomeSlice

@BenBrocka Re: surreal weird shit: gamejolt.com/games/adventure/death-of-the-augnob/26524

Lazers

16:58

0

Q: How can I have my door stay open until I go go back inside

I want to have a pressure plate beside my door on the inside. When I step on it I want it to toggle my door open or closed. So if I walk out my door should stay open until I (or someone else) walks back inside.

starbound

0

Q: What are the missable equipment/items in Bravely Default?

What are the missable equipment by events? (such as changes in landscape; changes in area accessibility (if any)) What are the missable equipment/items in boss fights? (Those that can only be gotten from stealing) I need the thief job and its related job skills to make stealing efficient, but I...

bravely-default

Ben Brocka

@GnomeSlice interesting

@Chippies IS that pretty decent? I've barely used any integrated GPUs. Just....whatever garbage my x200 lenovo tablet has. In theory my 4770k has integrated graphics but I don't use 'em

Chippies

@BenBrocka that's the cpu power, not gpu :P

GnomeSlice

timmybibble.com

Huh, Gamejolt has a payment widget?

Ben Brocka

oh, right. I'll have to find WTF my proc is. I think it's just before the i3/5/7 thing

GnomeSlice

I wonder if they have a library feature for paid games too, then.

Chippies

17:01

@BenBrocka for the igpu performance you can scroll to bottom here

there's results of quite a few of popular games

Ben Brocka

Intel®
Core™2 Duo processor SL9400 (1.86GHz,
6 MB L2, 1066 MHz FSB)

that's what my current tabtop has

Grace Note

I have... a thing for y'all.

Ben Brocka

@GraceNote am I listening to Yoshi's New Island

Grace Note

Maybe.

Chippies

@BenBrocka it's less than half of i3's cpu power

GnomeSlice

17:03

Win a $20 steam game by playing another game quickly

Yuki

@GraceNote That's f--king beautiful.

Ben Brocka

Oh really? nice

Chippies

Cinebench score: Intel Core 2 Duo SL9400 - 3848.3

chat thingy is being dumb again

there we go

Cinebench score: Intel Core i3 4000M - 8052.5

badp

@GraceNote oh good. I played enough of that game to recognize that theme.

Ben Brocka

I think I'll be fine with the i3...if only I could get 8GB of ram with it though

StrixVaria

17:04

@GraceNote Not what I expected.

badp

(I didn't like the actual game though)

fredley

GnomeSlice

@fredley indie games didn't really exist in 1992, and without publisher backing a lot of indies do their own art

fredley

@GnomeSlice Oh really? You mean that's not what AAAA games will look like in 2030?

GnomeSlice

Probably not.

Frank

17:19

Yay. Cleanup of servers and associated processes is ongoing. Should (hopefully) be almost done.

Lazers

0

Q: Trigger Discipline Perk - Good for Snipers without VATS?

I started to play a sniper but I won't use Vats. I heard, that a shot with a sniper rifle hits exactly where you aim. If that's true, the perk "Trigger Discipline" would be completely useless for me, right? Moreover a disadvantage, because of the lower fire rate. If I'd use Vats, I may get more...

fallout-new-vegas

GnomeSlice

Attention everybody I gave a copy of Out There Somewhere (there's five of you): you can now redeem your Steam key from the Desura page. Just click 'play now' and then click the 'view keys' link in the popup.

StrixVaria

@GnomeSlice Might be more effective to actually ping them so they ever see this.

GnomeSlice

@StrixVaria I don't remember who any of them are.

@Ullalluloo was one

uh

Lazers

17:36

0

Q: Do Distant Worlds AI Players Have The Same Restrictions As The Human Player?

Do the AI players in Distant Worlds have the same restrictions as the human player when it comes to colony expansion? Specifically the Colony Influence Range and Colonization Range Limits setup on this screen:

distant-worlds-shadows

0

Q: how to add top hat pedal to Rock Band 2 wireless drum set?

I saw here: How do I get the hi-hat to the right place in RB3 Pro drum kit? the drum with two pedal in the pictures from BlueRaja - Danny Pflughoeft answer. I'm looking a way to achieve it without the electronic box. Any one knows what is the use of the black input between the pedal one and th...

rock-band-2

GnomeSlice

indieroyale.com

This is pretty good

QUBE is decent, One Finger Death Punch is awesome, SOTS is good, Ultionus is great, Isomer looks great.

Chippies

Frank

@Chippies facedesk

Chippies

@Frank admit it, it's kinda clever

Frank

@Chippies It's @Wipqozn levels of bad pun.

user15026

17:40

@Chippies OMG that is an awful pun and I love it

Chippies

> so long as you're not any more awful than Wipqozn

I think I'm good

Lazers

0

Q: how do I get my love to games back?

Once upon a time I was a great gamer, I was the most powerfull in the whole world. But one day, I have reached a website that teaches programming, I could'nt resist because it was like a game so I started learning programming. From then, I lost my love to games. I tried some of the games I playe...

achievements

Pvt. Grichmann

@Lazers that question is...

StrixVaria

@Chippies NO

Chippies

@StrixVaria YES

badp

17:50

Puns are mandatory

btw, Steam In-Home Streaming Released

StrixVaria

Chippies

@badp I really want to try streaming, but I have no practical use for it :(

badp

Hardlinking gifs from Giphy:

StrixVaria

@badp I TRIED TO UPLOAD IT TO IMGUR BUT IT WOULDN'T

GnomeSlice

groupees.com/bagb6

DAMMIT

I SAID I WAS BROKE

badp

17:55

@BenBrocka what is the best way to tell a YouTube uploader "please stop making videos like this"? I figure something like "skip ad, thumbs down, leave video immediately"?

GnomeSlice

@badp stop watching their videos

badp

Click this link. If you get a download request, you're fine: cancel the download. Otherwise uninstall Shockwave immediately. (details)

9

Grace Note

@badp I suggest this gif.

badp

@GraceNote This is acceptable.

Grace Note

@badp What if the download happened too fast for me to cancel?

Ben Brocka

17:59

@badp Is this for some sort of not-dickish reason? Thumbs down can be a bit annoying, but the bounce will just be a minor blimp in analytics that doesn't indicate much unless it happens en-mass

Frank

@badp What if we get a, "A plugin is needed to display this content"?

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